Why not? I mean, SB1070, right to work, retirement homes galore, McCain, Arpio, and winter retreats for the rich...
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Arizona bill would require students say Pledge of Allegiance.
- Thread starter TaySan
- Start date
The pledge was a tactic sew nationalism. Now we have our President and the GOP working for the Kremlin.
And since 1954 it violates religious freedom
Can we get a photo of Emperor Trump in each classroom so they can pledge to him? Flag is so 2015.
There's a super conservative teacher out there right now just rubbing their hands together who can't wait to deport a brown US citizen student to a camp for not doing this.
Considering the fact that "under god" was not in the original pledge, but was added to differentiate us from the godless commies, fuck the pledge. It's nothing more than a tool for indoctrination.
Yeah we should really try to instill nationalism into kids. Because that always goes so well. Indoctrination and brainwashing are absolutely what we should be doing with kids.
I wonder about this. I am moving to the US next year with my Australian child and she is young so by the time she goes to school she will probably feel 'American' I guess (moving when 3) but I don't want her to do it if she doesn't have to as she isn't American.. Is it actually forced? Can I say I want it to be her choice as she isn't American or is this just a weird pointless thing I need to accept?
It's not forced legally and can't be. Though, it is a social stigma if you don't do it.
No, a school cannot force a child to say the pledge. This has been explicitly decided by the Supreme Court.
Umm, where?
Really? You think that's why we have white nationalism in this country? Because those kids grew up saying the pledge of allegiance in schools? Like, that's what contributed to their beliefs?
Do you assume that some Christians are Christians because they recited The Lord's Prayer every Sunday at church, and that brainwashed them to believing in God? Because they recited a phrase?
Obviously not. I don't think anyone will argue that saying The Pledge from grades K to 12 will correlate strongly to someone becoming a Nationalist.
That sucks and I'm sorry to hear it, but I would be shocked if most kids in most places in the US give a fuck.
Obviously not, but clearly an increase in nationalism or patriotism is what these Conservative lawmakers hope to try to achieve and instill. Hence the key word "trying".
It wasn't necessarily just the kids though. That's the worst part.
Right. I agree. These lawmakers are morons. It won't. They're idiots for trying. But that's it. It's just an incredible stupid idea and waste of time and these people should be removed from their office for wasting their position of leadership on this idea.
But I wouldn't suggest this law is harmful to society by creating nationalist. It's just a mornic idea and waste of time and money.
It's legally not required. It is fucking terrifying, but not nearly as terrifying as how people just accept it as normal, or how faculty and students alike tend to ostracize anybody who chooses not to participate.
America. Ain't it great??
I honestly don't know why ppl keep moving here. It's getting worse and worse.
I honestly don't know why ppl keep moving here. It's getting worse and worse.
What 3 countries are getting better and better?
Serious question. Not trying to troll. I agree with you, sortve. America has a shit ton of problems. But I'm honestly asking: what countries are not experiencing hard things?
the weirdest thing about The Pledge of Allegiance is some radio stations have now adopted to play it daily leading into the National Anthem. Some do it at 6 am right at the beginning of the day, and some do it at noon. It's the most bizarre thing, and something that gets me to change the station quicker than a Bon Jovi song.
i don't put a whole lot of weight into what any SCOTUS has to say about this sort of thing considering having "god" injected into our pledge and on our currency etc. was considered fine and dandy by them a long time ago, despite how CLEARLY unconstitutional it is, but hopefully if the states push it enough someone sues to bring it up the chain to them to strike down.
it's my understanding that private businesses can still remove people from their property if they refuse to participate in the pledge or national anthem, etc. but forcing kids to do it in schools? gtfo.
it's my understanding that private businesses can still remove people from their property if they refuse to participate in the pledge or national anthem, etc. but forcing kids to do it in schools? gtfo.
There's plenty of other ways to express basic unity/respect for one another in a school environment that's not some nationalistic and religious poem. Even without the political crap I learned about it later in life, I clearly remember back in class reciting the pledge was a universal annoyance to the students. It was never "cool".
That is what I thought.. But is the stigma worth not doing it? If the stigma is so bad you end up basically being forced in my opinion!
US is one of the easiest countries to immigrate to. Canada is a better country but damn near impossible to immigrate to.
These fuckers would force your kids to pray to their Jesus in school if they had total control.
Totally lame thing that I quit doing come middle school. Some teachers/students were bugged by it (or jealous that they didn't have the nerve to stay seated?) but that didn't last long. Dun stand for the anthem either as thats also a waste of my energy. Bugs me that to this day I still remember that darn poem while other more important an interesting things I can't / have trouble calling back to ~_~
You know when they stripped Japanese Americans of their rights, and rounded them up into internment camps, they would march them out and stand them in front of a barbed wire with a US flag on the other side, and make them state the pledge of allegiance?
Why do people attempt to attribute these forced nationalistic displays to some sort of symbol of respect to the armed forces? It's insane to me that these same politicians who have made the US anthem and pledge of allegiance a symbol of military support, are the exact same people who consistently defund veteran affairs, and make it so difficult for soldiers to receive their benefits. It's propaganda, nothing more, and nothing less. Imagine the fucking gall to strip a people of their constitutional rights, and then parade them out every morning to recite this:
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
But yeah sure, it's about showing respect to the armed forces.
These stunts the AZ Republicans have been pulling lately are like the political party equivalent of the dying words of a crazy man when you consider how quickly the state is moving politically.
When I was starting Middle School, I started to realize how... wrong this felt, cultish, and among other things, and afterwards, stopped doing it. I'd just stand to not cause any issues, but didn't actually recite it and I honestly would have rather just sat. I got some shit even just for standing. But a few students who chose to sit, got in trouble and/or students hounded them. It's honestly ridiculous.
It's also borderline indoctrination given the increasing Hispanic presence throughout the state.
This some white-terror, grasping for any semblance to exert power over a growing minority.
At first, I thought this would be something the State of Florida would do, but yeah...
These republican peeps just want to have "if you're not with us, you're against us" mentality.
These republican peeps just want to have "if you're not with us, you're against us" mentality.
Not trying to pile on, since you're already getting a ton of replies but the older I got, the creepier the idea of a bunch of children with little to no understanding of what the pledge they are reciting was or means.
By the time I got to jr high/early high school, I started feeling uncomfortable doing it.
Pledging allegiance to the flag (a symbol), the republic (a system), and what essentially boils down to pledging allegiance to god, do not seem like things we should be pushing on kids, or anyone really.
None of the above are really unifying as much as they are means of control, apologies if that sounds overly dramatic but I don't really have a good way of wording it, so I hope you kind of get the gist of what I'm saying. None of those things are the people or values that make up this country. They're institutions.
Still though, I did recite it as a kid because growing up as a Hispanic kid in a super conservative Texas town, the headache of not doing so would probably be worse than the discomfort of just going through the motions. Same reason I "prayed" during family get togethers a despite being agnostic (my mom is the only one who knows that and she just found out this year, I'm in my early 30s at this point). So I don't really have any high ground to stand on. Just kinda rambling.
Edit: that said, I'm [mostly] in the same boat as you, albeit on the other side of it. I don't and didn't like saying it but I don't have a problem with those that do as long as they're cool with me not wanting to participate.
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I'm probably kicking a hornet's nest, but why is it important or necessary to "respect" the armed forces of the USA?
