Armed Neo-Nazis Crash Detroit Pride with Police Escort (see staff post)

TheLostBigBoss

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,328
So the people who don't want police at Pride are delusional?
No, if that's their view that's their view, but thanks for trying to put words into my mouth. To a lot of marginalized people the police represent oppression, and I fully agree with that view with a lot of groups, especially given the police's history in America.

But in my view the police are literally the least of my worries when I think about the rights of LGBTQ people and by transitive property, myself.
 

TaySan

Member
Dec 10, 2018
2,913
The latter is fucking horrifying and I'm stunned so many people seem to be advocating for that alternative to happen when they say "Nazis should be afraid, they shouldn't be protected", thinking that the police are protecting the armed group of fascists.
The police need to improve their image with their communities so i think our reactions aren't unwarranted. Stuff like this gives a bad look. I just want to know if this march was approved by the city or not.
OK, then just let the Nazis buy them instead.
In my ideal society, nobody would have any weapons, but i understand that will never happen. :(
 

Powdered Egg

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,976
No, if that's their view that's their view, but thanks for trying to put words into my mouth. To a lot of marginalized people the police represent oppression, and I fully agree with that view with a lot of groups, especially given the police's history in America.

But in my view the police are literally the least of my worries when I think about the rights of LGBTQ people and by transitive property, myself.
Not putting words in your mouth, just reminding you that it's not all good for every LGBTQ+ person when confronted by police.
 

Dude Abides

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,684
No, if that's their view that's their view, but thanks for trying to put words into my mouth. To a lot of marginalized people the police represent oppression, and I fully agree with that view with a lot of groups, especially given the police's history in America.

But in my view the police are literally the least of my worries when I think about the rights of LGBTQ people and by transitive property, myself.
Historically and currently the police have treated LGBTQ people rather poorly.
 

RedMercury

Member
Dec 24, 2017
7,139
i'm encouraging the left to not completely give up policing to right and far right culture. i feel like i'm going in circles with this so i'll just leave that as my final thought. g'night.
I get what you're saying, what I mean though is this: Imagine a man standing in a doorway, this man is a representation of the police. To the left of him, they are holding onto him by the tip of his pinky finger at best. To the right of him, every other part of the man is through the doorway and they are giving the guy a hug and a pat on the back. Now, could the guy be pulled back from the door to the left? Maybe, but it would take a huge amount of effort, it would also need the cooperation of the man to turn back.

It would take, at this point, a miracle for it to happen. We're talking about over 100 years of racist, bigoted culture. All of us would be dead by the time it happened. I'd rather shut the door, the man's finger will get stuck in it, and it's not going to be opened again until he agrees to turn the fuck around. Force only respects and recognizes force, we need to fix the underlying system so that the way they behave is no longer an option for them. With proper legislation and oversight, we do not need to beg them to come to our side.

We need police, but we need policing to be done correctly, and trying to build any sort of relationship out of our current framework is doomed to fail.
 

Powdered Egg

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,976
i'm encouraging the left to not completely give up policing to right and far right culture. i feel like i'm going in circles with this so i'll just leave that as my final thought. g'night.
How does "the left" give up on police? By default police protect white, capitalist interests (which are married to the Right in America). Those outside that framework got police boots on their neck, historically, for merely existing.
 

TheLostBigBoss

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,328
Historically and currently the police have treated LGBTQ people rather poorly.
I know about the not so good history of the police force in respect to the community, Stonewall comes to most peoples minds.

That doesn't negate the fact that in 2019 I don't think the police is an issue the community is facing that is holding us from equality. The poster said the police are an institutional threat to LGBTQ people(as in right now in 2019 they are a threat), I would argue that is false and the threat to us are inherently from those who right and execute laws to discriminate and allow discrimination against us.
 

TaySan

Member
Dec 10, 2018
2,913
I get what you're saying, what I mean though is this: Imagine a man standing in a doorway, this man is a representation of the police. To the left of him, they are holding onto him by the tip of his pinky finger at best. To the right of him, every other part of the man is through the doorway and they are giving the guy a hug and a pat on the back. Now, could the guy be pulled back from the door to the left? Maybe, but it would take a huge amount of effort, it would also need the cooperation of the man to turn back.

It would take, at this point, a miracle for it to happen. We're talking about over 100 years of racist, bigoted culture. All of us would be dead by the time it happened. I'd rather shut the door, the man's finger will get stuck in it, and it's not going to be opened again until he agrees to turn the fuck around. Force only respects and recognizes force, we need to fix the underlying system so that the way they behave is no longer an option for them. With proper legislation and oversight, we do not need to beg them to come to our side.

We need police, but we need policing to be done correctly, and trying to build any sort of relationship out of our current framework is doomed to fail.
It feels all hopeless to be a leftist in America. Everything was built from the ground up against you and the only voice we have is to vote in elections.
 

Dude Abides

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,684
I know about the not so good history of the police force in respect to the community, Stonewall comes to most peoples minds.

That doesn't negate the fact that in 2019 I don't think the police is an issue the community is facing that is holding us from equality. The poster said the police are an institutional threat to LGBTQ people(as in right now in 2019 they are a threat), I would argue that is false and the threat to us are inherently from those who right and execute laws to discriminate and allow discrimination against us.
I don’t know about “holding us from equality” but police discrimination against LGTBQ people is still an issue, not some relic of decades past.

 

Ms.Galaxy

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,647
It feels all hopeless to be a leftist in America. Everything was built from the ground up against you and the only voice we have is to vote in elections.
Not even then, remember, electoral college and gerrymandering.

I know about the not so good history of the police force in respect to the community, Stonewall comes to most peoples minds.

That doesn't negate the fact that in 2019 I don't think the police is an issue the community is facing that is holding us from equality. The poster said the police are an institutional threat to LGBTQ people(as in right now in 2019 they are a threat), I would argue that is false and the threat to us are inherently from those who right and execute laws to discriminate and allow discrimination against us.
Man, you need to look at statistics and read more articles. For trans people alone, getting harassed and humiliated by cops is common. Hell, it's even hard for us to get them to take us serious when we try to report sexual assault and harassment, sometimes they even ignore us.
 

RedMercury

Member
Dec 24, 2017
7,139
It feels all hopeless to be a leftist in America. Everything was built from the ground up against you and the only voice we have is to vote in elections.
Well, we also have the power of protest. We have great power to effect change on an individual level if we continue to use available tools like social media to call out and punish behavior that harms individuals and society, which may seem small but it does add up.
 

Novel

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,932
Not even then, remember, electoral college and gerrymandering.



Man, you need to look at statistics and read more articles. For trans people alone, getting harassed and humiliated by cops is common. Hell, it's even hard for us to get them to take us serious when we try to report sexual assault and harassment, sometimes they even ignore us.
I've spoken to that poster about trans issues before. The T likely doesn't even cross their mind.
 

TheLostBigBoss

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,328
Not even then, remember, electoral college and gerrymandering.



Man, you need to look at statistics and read more articles. For trans people alone, getting harassed and humiliated by cops is common. Hell, it's even hard for us to get them to take us serious when we try to report sexual assault and harassment, sometimes they even ignore us.
You're right, I didn't really think about the posters comment in that aspect. The poster talked about "institutional threat", and in my mind goes to legal and hard institutions that attempt to reduce our rights and our literal existence (like the Trump administrations attempts to basically smother the very concept of being trans)

I've spoken to that poster about trans issues before. The T likely doesn't even cross their mind.


Your side-talking passive aggressive comments are infinitely more funny when you make statements like this about someone you don't even know

Grow a spine
 
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Novel

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,932
User Banned (Permanent): Inflammatory accusations, long history of infractions for hostility and false accusations against other users


Your side-talking passive aggressive comments are infinitely more funny when you make statements like this about someone you don't even know

Grow a spine
The irony of your comments given your shit talking about trans struggles in the past is not lost on me, yes
 

earthxsucks

Member
Oct 27, 2017
435
au
i'm all for free speech and saying what you want. at the same, don't be surprised if someone takes a brick to your face for what you're espousing.
 

Novel

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,932
I don’t know about “holding us from equality” but police discrimination against LGTBQ people is still an issue, not some relic of decades past.

Nah. Clearly we're making it up.
/s
 

TheLostBigBoss

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,328
The irony of your comments given your shit talking about trans struggles in the past is not lost on me, yes
I've spoken to that poster about trans issues before.
Strange, I thought you had me on ignore?

ERA has a really great and functional search bar now, and strangely the only memory I have of you, and the only memory the website has of you interacting with me, is in a 2020 primary thread.

But don't worry, I'm not going to leave it to you to look, I'll just show a picture of your history of quoting me on resetERA



Wow strange, it looks like my memory does serve me right! But hey, lets take a look at my history in replying to any thread that has the key word "trans" in it.













What you won't see in that image dump is the fact that the search history includes one's own personal DM's which I had with a member of an LGBTQ thread, which included my own personal history with gender identity, which for personal reasons I redacted.

Based on everything I've seen, the only thing I can conclude is you're a petty five year old who indulges in libel comments about people who have the gaul to criticizes your political stances and preferred presidential candidates.

I can only imagine how small of a person you are in real life if you act like this online trying to impress random internet people.

Apologies to the thread for this derailment, just don't really fancy dealing with someone who is so comfortable blatantly lying for petty childish reasons.
 
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Zabo

Member
Oct 30, 2017
488
The police need to improve their image with their communities so i think our reactions aren't unwarranted. Stuff like this gives a bad look. I just want to know if this march was approved by the city or not.
I would assume it was ok'd by the city. I don't think they can actually refuse, very least without risk of lawsuit (freedom of speech, assembly, etc.). I can also see the necessity of police escort. I have no doubt that these armed fucks were just looking for excuse to kill somebody, so it's good to have cops at arms lenght.
 

Novel

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,932
Strange, I thought you had me on ignore?
Snip-
Doesn't mean I can't see it if I so choose


Also, I wouldn't make up shit about someone like you that has mocked the struggles of minority communities. You did that in this very thread and you've done it in the past too. Your behavior is consistent in this regard and why you're backpedaling and acting like you aren't is lost on me. But sure, it's "childish" to take issue with someone who mocks lgbt struggles. The fuck.

If you're so openly brazen on talking down to lgbt people about their worries in this thread, I see no issue with pointing it out. That's all really.

We're right to be upset with institutional issues. The police. Our governments, etc. Etc. Regardless of how much of a non issue you think it is.
 
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TheLostBigBoss

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,328
Doesn't mean I can't see it if I so choose


Also, I wouldn't make up shit about someone like you that has mocked the struggles of minority communities. You did that in this very thread and you've done it in the past too. Your behavior is consistent in this regard and why you're backpedaling and acting like you aren't is lost on me. But sure, it's "childish" to take issue with someone who mocks lgbt struggles. The fuck.
I've spoken to that poster about trans issues before.


You're literally backpedaling as we speak. You're projecting as hard as Trump projects about his tiny hands.

Doesn't mean I can't see it if I so choose


Also, I wouldn't make up shit about someone like you that has mocked the struggles of minority communities. You did that in this very thread and you've done it in the past too. Your behavior is consistent in this regard and why you're backpedaling and acting like you aren't is lost on me. But sure, it's "childish" to take issue with someone who mocks lgbt struggles. The fuck.

If you're so openly brazen on talking down to lgbt people about their worries in this thread, I see no issue with pointing it out. That's all really.

We're right to be upset with institutional issues. The police. Our governments, etc. Etc. Regardless of how much of a non issue you think it is.
I'm waiting for all of these hurtful and my history of derogatory comments about the community I'm a part of.

Go on ahead and show off all the things I've said, I'm waiting.
 
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muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
6,252
a sunken pirate ship
SMDH at the posters here trying to argue this was OK because the Nazis were in their rights to organize a counter-protest.

That is the reason that Pride marches continue, or at least for the original Pride riots. No society should view that as acceptable, and it should not be permitted to occur
 
Drop the hostilities and accusations and get back on topic

JayC3

bork bork
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
1,619
Official Staff Communication

Everyone, drop the hostilities and accusations and get back on topic.
 

Novel

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,932


You're literally backpedaling as we speak. You're projecting as hard as Trump projects about his tiny hands.
I'm not lying or backpedaling but cool story.
Again: you're the one who literally mocked lgbt worries in this thread and you've done it in the past.



If you're so openly brazen on talking down to lgbt people about their worries in this thread, I see no issue with pointing it out. That's all really.

We're right to be upset with institutional issues. The police. Our governments, etc. Etc. Regardless of how much of a non issue you think it is.
 

Stinkles

343 Industries
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
12,212
That they usually look like the kind of people Hitler would have deemed subhuman but somehow they still think they are aryan perfection?
Hitler didn’t even have a full mustache. That’s half their thing. Half mustache. Half human. Half hands.

Full bellies. Empty hearts.
 

TaySan

Member
Dec 10, 2018
2,913
That they usually look like the kind of people Hitler would have deemed subhuman but somehow they still think they are aryan perfection?
I bet if these people take a DNA test they would have substantial % of Non "Aryan" DNA. Hell, I'm part Ashkenazi and I look more "Aryan" than these clowns.
 

Novel

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,932
Hitler didn’t even have a full mustache. That’s half their thing. Half mustache. Half human. Half hands.

Full bellies. Empty hearts.
I had a professor I was good friends with who referenced that. It's ruined for me now.

I bet if these people take a DNA test they would have substantial % of Non "Aryan" DNA. Hell I'm part Ashkenazi and I look more "Aryan" than these clowns.
The "Master race" is surely defined in odd ways in their eyes.
 

A.By

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,411
I wonder the same. If someone made a negative generalization about all homosexuals, that person would catch a ban, and it would be warranted. Police and all other groups (except Nazis and other hate groups) deserve the same respect.
Being a cop isn't just something you're born with, choosing to join a problematic group of people is not comparable with being gay.
 

Zabo

Member
Oct 30, 2017
488
SMDH at the posters here trying to argue this was OK because the Nazis were in their rights to organize a counter-protest.

That is the reason that Pride marches continue, or at least for the original Pride riots. No society should view that as acceptable, and it should not be permitted to occur
Yeah, the whole American ideal of freedom of speech is really interesting. It's not even hard to find prominent left figures who would defend this, especially from the old guards like Noam Chomsky. Admitedly, I doubt anyone on the left would agree that protestors also have right to be armed.
 

Sianos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,312
what is concerning to me is not even the fact that the police were there to peacefully prevent the nazis from murdering people on the streets

it's that the police were more amenable and restrained towards armed neo-nazis waving swastikas than they often are towards unarmed anti-racist student protesters

it would be excellent if the police took the same level of care they showed the neo-nazis and treated regular people with the same level of respect - and if they can be levelheaded around armed neo-nazis, then they damn well be levelheaded around unarmed teenagers
 
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TaterTots

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,030
I'm not sure what we're suppose to say to this. On one hand, if the cops were not there around those people it could have been a recipe for a worse disaster. On the other, you can say one or both should not be there at all, but there will always be some asshole.
 

darz1

Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,825
Not really sure if there is a point of even responding to you if you constantly ignore the very simple fact that it's not the polices job to decide what legal protest permits to enforce or not. If the city approved the permit then the police's job is to honor that permit, and in this case it looks like a key part of the agreement was to dispatch armed police to isolate the nazis during their walk around the city in order to minimize and de-escalate anything possible situations.

The fact you're conflating a mass shooting event to an armed protest just tells me you're not full grasping how these things work and how, on a legal basis, it's very much a muddy grey area.

Again, the alternative to the situation where the city approved the permit is there are no police, there are no-one to keep the nazis isolated, and they can walk around a city with nobody preventing anything from happening during a gay pride parade.

The latter is fucking horrifying and I'm stunned so many people seem to be advocating for that alternative to happen when they say "Nazis should be afraid, they shouldn't be protected", thinking that the police are protecting the armed group of fascists.



It's dangerous to have people burst your political bubble!
If police can get away with shooting Black people because they thought they had a gun, surely they have the authority to stop Nazi's from marching the streets brandishing weapons.

You keep saying the police are protecting people by making sure no one provokes a Nazi to start shooting. Shouldnt that be reason enough alone to just stop the Nazi's in the first place?
 

TheLostBigBoss

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,328
If police can get away with shooting Black people because they thought they had a gun, surely they have the authority to stop Nazi's from marching the streets brandishing weapons.

You keep saying the police are protecting people by making sure no one provokes a Nazi to start shooting. Shouldnt that be reason enough alone to just stop the Nazi's in the first place?
Yes, in a logical and morally just world we shouldn't be handing out permits and inviting people who's endgame is to eradicate us from existence.

I've never argued that, my point is with the hand that we have and the situation where they were given permits to protest, having a police escort is actually the best possible solution to the problem of armed nazi's trying to counter protest a gay pride parade.

And no, the police don't really have the authority to prevent nazi's from open carry and marching down a street.
 

Zhukov

Member
Dec 6, 2017
2,448
"Good morning officers. Have a seat everyone. Right. Okay. Today's assignments. Morning shift, we need you to march alongside literal Nazis. Yes, with the swastikas and everything. Any questions?"
 

Brinbe

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
13,967
Terana
the funny part is that they're probably all being applauded on stormfront and all those usual shitty racist outposts. but get minorities with guns out here doing the same thing, like on some black panthers shit and that tune changes awfully quickly. they're lucky those cops were there
 

CaviarMeths

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,619
Western Canada
Shouldn't being a nazi illegal already?
White nationalist terrorism must be protected at all costs. Nothing is more important than making sure literal Nazis are allowed to carry guns through the streets and shout hateful rhetoric at marginalized people. Because if you remove that, something something slippery slope something 1984.

I guess all of the countries that have been banning this sort of thing for decades are now dystopian hellscapes.