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Deleted member 1852

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Oct 25, 2017
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https://arstechnica.com/science/201...-simply-reduce-your-carbon-footprint-in-2017/

Carbon footprints are essentially a convenient way for scientists and environmental advocates to provide you with a number—typically in tons—of the C02 emissions you produce each year. Calculated based on a number of factors including where you live, what you eat, and how you get around, the size of each person's C02 footprint varies widely. Things are especially different between city slickers and suburbanites, as urban living lowers carbon emissions by 20 percent. Still, the average American clocks in at 16.4 metric tons, or some 36,00 pounds, of carbon dioxide and its greenhouse gas equivalents each year, according to the World Bank. That made for a shared national footprint of about 5,300 million metric tons in 2015, which continues to contribute to the acceleration of global climate change.

A 2014 study of diets in the United Kingdom showed just how much difference dietary decisions can make. The researchers calculated the carbon footprint of carnivores as compared to vegetarians and vegans. Those who consumed a "high meat diet," defined as just 100 grams (3.5 ounces) of meat, generated seven kilograms (15.8 pounds) of food-related carbon a day, which is the equivalent of running an average car for 17.5 miles. That's huge, especially when you realize 3.5 ounces is smaller than a standard burger patty. Vegetarians, meanwhile, hit a daily average of about 3.8kg (8.4 pounds) of food-based carbon.

Right now, if you have the choice, an electric vehicle is better than an energy-efficient vehicle if your goal is to lower your carbon footprint. Electric vehicles have greenhouse gas emissions similar to a car that gets 68 miles to the gallon, according to 2015 research from the Union of Concerned Scientists. That's a gas mileage that basically doesn't exist for non-electric vehicles.

Each American, on average, uses over 10,000 kilowatt hours of electricity each year, and some estimate a whopping 20 percent of that goes into air conditioning. Each year, the United States burns through 100 million tons of carbon emissions just to power our A/Cs, which likely contributes, among other things, to summer smog. That's why the EPA's carbon calculator allows people to determine, using degrees Fahrenheit, exactly how much carbon their air conditioning emits.

Other small household habits can use up a lot of energy, too. Shortening showers, washing clothes in cold water, and air drying clothes can all reduce a person's carbon footprint, though they aren't necessarily easy habits to take up. Electronics aren't innocent, either. Energy Star estimates that swapping out existing computers for their approved products would save 15 billion pounds of greenhouse gas emissions annually—totalling about $1 billion in energy costs. Swapping out standard light bulbs, windows, and existing appliances for those with the Energy Star label would help, too.

It's a very good article which is worth reading, but if you don't want to here's the short short version:
  • Eat less meat (or none at all if you hate meat)
  • Reduce the amount of gas-powered transportation you use or use public transit
  • Reduce your energy consumption in your house especially your heating and air conditioning
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,510
3/3's not bad for me, I guess.
Don't eat much meat, I walk most of the time and limit energy consumption when I can.
 

Deleted member 9237

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Oct 26, 2017
1,789
Already ahead of you, I do all three

I don't do it to reduce my footprint, but I guess it's a nice side effect
 

Wollan

Mostly Positive
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,810
Norway but living in France
The wife and me are trying to introduce vegetarian days into our cycle (Tuesdays & Thursdays non-negotiable for now).
I have a Tesla model 3 on order (need the 4WD / dual engine version so mid-2019).
I work remotely cross-country from my home but I do air-travel once every 1-1.5 months. Doubt that will change anytime soon (especially as our development team is spread across three different countries).
 

Lateralus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
206
New Jersey
I recycle. Thats about all your gonna get out of me aside from 3...and thats just cause my GF is always convinced we are poor and watches our eletric and oil usage like a hawk.
1 and 2 are impossible. I'm to skinny to start messing with my diet and where I live the only people who use the bus are scary.
 

fanboi

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,702
Sweden
The wife and me are trying to introduce vegetarian days into our cycle (Tuesdays & Thursdays non-negotiable for now).
I have a Tesla model 3 on order (need the 4WD / dual engine version so mid-2019).
I work remotely cross-country from my home but I do air-travel once every 1-1.5 months. Doubt that will change anytime soon (especially as our development team is spread across three different countries).

You live in Norway right? Was there this summer Kragerö, and I saw several Tesla's over there.

your roads and speed limit sucks! SWEDEN SWEDEN
 
Oct 26, 2017
16
The stats on the meat-related carbon emission are always a bit sketchy. I've seen number from studies varying tremendously, and this seems to be one of those who claim a very high upper range.

The best thing you can do for carbon emission, by far, is still not having kids or adopting.
 

Hollywood Duo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,837
I live in an apartment so I'd have no means to reliably charge an electric vehicle unfortunately. I've been eating a lot less red meat over the past couple years. I walk and take public transport as much as possible but that's not an option getting to and from my office unfortunately.
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
The stats on the meat-related carbon emission are always a bit sketchy. I've seen number from studies varying tremendously, and this seems to be one of those who claim a very high upper range.

The best thing you can do for carbon emission, by far, is still not having kids or adopting.
And yet there are arguably valid ways to look at things that put meat & dairy production at an even worse light than the simplest "how much does one animal fart out methane & breathe out CO2". The thing about meat production is that 1) it's not just CO2 but the way worse methane, 2) how much of meat & dairy goes to waste because of how easily meat & dairy spoils and 3) the amount of environmental destruction it causes otherwise. Even if meat & dairy production produced zero CO2 & methane, it would still be one of the most destructive forces on this planet.
 
Oct 26, 2017
16
And yet there are arguably valid ways to look at things that put meat & dairy production at an even worse light than the simplest "how much does one animal fart out methane & breathe out CO2". The thing about meat production is that 1) it's not just CO2 but the way worse methane, 2) how much of meat & dairy goes to waste because of how easily meat & dairy spoils and 3) the amount of environmental destruction it causes otherwise. Even if meat & dairy production produced zero CO2 & methane, it would still be one of the most destructive forces on this planet.

I don't really see what that has to do with what i posted. I don't even eat meat.
 

SM0KE

Member
Oct 27, 2017
330
Being poor and lame and ugly really helps lower your carbon emissions even without much effort on your part...

I don't have any kids and won't be having any kids
I barely eat any meat although I do like animal products like milk, yogurt and ice cream
I live 1.5 miles away from where I work and drive a honda civic coupe which I put about 4-5 gallons of gas into every 2-3 weeks
I'm too poor so don't have A/C, luckily our house doesn't gain much heat during the day so as long as it drops down into the 60s and low 70s at night just opening all the windows and running a few fans will cool it down for the next day even if it's reaching the 80s and 90s outside during the day

Doing my part mostly just by being poor and lame and unattractive, but really it ain't that hard to reduce your footprint if you truly want to make a difference
 

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,100
Chesire, UK
I'm not sure anything in that article qualifies as "simple". The solutions boil down to:
  • Become a vegetarian.
  • Buy a new car (that will be much more expensive than your current car).
  • Research and change your electricity supplier not to the cheapest one available, but to the greenest (if you can even access that information).
  • Move to a new energy efficient house, or have your existing house made more energy efficient, at great personal expense.
  • Be hotter than you want to be in the summer and colder than you want to be in the winter.
All these suggestions are absolutely massive lifestyle changes and come at a significant personal or financial cost that virtually no-one is going to be willing to make without significant coercion.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 1852

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
2,077
I'm not sure anything in that article qualifies as "simple". The solutions boil down to:
  • Become a vegetarian.
  • Buy a new car (that will be much more expensive than your current car).
  • Research and change your electricity supplier not to the cheapest one available, but to the greenest (if you can even access that information).
  • Move to a new energy efficient house, or have your existing house made more energy efficient, at great personal expense.
  • Be hotter than you want to be in the summer and colder than you want to be in the winter.
All these suggestions are absolutely massive lifestyle changes and come at a significant personal or financial cost that virtually no-one is going to be willing to make without significant coercion.
Well, that's only if you take their suggestions to their furthest extreme.

  • You don't have to become a vegetarian. You just can reduce your meat consumption, especially of beef which is the worst for the environment.
  • You don't have to buy a new car. You can try to use your existing car less, by taking public transit or carpooling to work.
  • Electricity supply is a difficult one but many utility companies let you pay a bit more for only "green" energy sources like solar and wind.
  • Simple things can be done to improve energy efficiency of a house, like replacing an old A/C unit or furnace with a more energy efficient one or simply hanging curtains to trap heat.
  • If you can't handle adjusting your A/C up 2-3 degrees from 72 to 74-75, or adjusting your heat down from 70 to 67-68, I don't really know what to tell you. You'll save money on your energy bills too if you actually let the temperature not be locked at 70-72 degrees year round.
 

Menchi

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,140
UK
Huh, did the WWF calculator for the U.K and I'm looking 66% of the UK average, even being a driving, meat eater. Obviously could reduce it more if I did cut those out completely, but ehh, not too shabby.
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
I don't really see what that has to do with what i posted. I don't even eat meat.
You said these numbers are sketchy and "on the high end", just made an argument that these probably aren't even the highest numbers and that the higher numbers can be argued to be valid/worth considering when discussing just how big of an impact the meat & dairy production has on greenhouse gas emissions.

And that ultimately it doesn't really even matter which end of the spectrum of greenhouse gas emission estimates is the more valid one because the rest of the problems that meat & dairy production cause are still plenty destructive on their own.

I barely eat any meat although I do like animal products like milk, yogurt and ice cream
Have you tried non-dairy alternatives for these? Ice creams made from soy, oat, rice, coconut & such creams in particular aren't any inferior to dairy alternatives. The selection can be somewhat limited in comparison to dairy ice creams, but nowadays even bigger brands with more special ice creams like Ben & Jerry's are starting to release vegan alternatives, so you aren't limited to just plain vanilla & chocolate anymore. With yogurts you can have even more options.

I understand that going from drinking plain cow milk to plant alternatives can be hard, but there are differences between sources & brands (so it could just be a matter of testing out different alternatives and finding something you like vs. trying one brand's one soy milk, hating it and declaring all soy/plant milks as shit) and with time you can get accustomed to the new tastes (tastebuds are adaptive & change after all).

In cooking & baking, I don't really see any reason to use dairy products like cow milk & cream anymore even for non-vegans, when there are a lot of plant alternatives from all kinds of sources (i.e. almond, soy, oat, coconut, rice, cashew, hazelnut etc.) that do the exact same job. Oil, spices & such make it so that you aren't really tasting the underlying plant milk when making some creamy sauce from oat or soy cream, at least not as strongly as when just drinking a glass of soy milk or something.
 

Deleted member 9237

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Oct 26, 2017
1,789
I dunno man, I've been vegetarian for a long time, and a vegan on/off for a few years, and as someone who does quite a bit of baking as a hobby I think most vegan baking is appalling (what I've tasted anyway). Milk is not the big issue, you can even substitute milk for water a lot of times. Eggs are by far the hardest to substitute, and also maybe the most important ingredient in a lot of baking.

I have a lot of ethical issues with eggs, but I'm lucky in that I can often buy them from people I know who just keep outdoor hens because they enjoy it.
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
I dunno man, I've been vegetarian for a long time, and a vegan on/off for a few years, and as someone who does quite a bit of baking as a hobby I think most vegan baking is appalling (what I've tasted anyway). Milk is not the big issue, you can even substitute milk for water a lot of times. Eggs are by far the hardest to substitute, and also maybe the most important ingredient in a lot of baking.
Eggs can be left out of so many things without it really making the end product all that much worse and with the "invention" of aquafaba in 2014, even the pastries that do require egg for fluffiness or some other effect can be done with minimal or even no detrimental effect by the lack of eggs. Heck, even vegan meringue is possible nowadays, something that was impossible prior to 2014 & aquafaba. Gelatin is probably the harder one to replace (at home). You can replace it with some agar agar but those can have a strong taste that comes through everything, especially if one happens to be sensitive to that particular taste (not everyone is).

Where on Earth have you eaten so much bad vegan baking that has made you think all vegan baking is so bad that all of it can be evaluated as appalling? I held a vegan pop-up restaurant and got nothing but praise/good words for my carrot cakes, orange-chocolate-custard pastries, avokado-chocolate-cake, blueberry pie, lemon muffins, mushroom pie etc. that I served there. Only one person said that the blueberry pie wasn't quite as good as dairy version he'd eaten, but even he didn't say it was bad, just that it wasn't as good as the dairy version, which I understand because it was my first time baking with that recipe and I know that there's room for some adjustments & improvements to make it better.

Maybe you are doing it all wrong if it's your own vegan baking that is appalling? :S Like what can even be so bad about them that makes it altogether appalling? Baking is mostly flours, grease, sugar and some kind of liquid + spices/things that add flavor, most of which are vegan by definition. Eggs don't really add much in the way of taste and as I already pointed out can be left out from quite a lot of baking or replaced with aquafabe & other things. Plant milks can have a specific taste to them but the hefty amounts of sugar & other shit usually hides the strongest of it and I've noticed that it can even be more of a plus than a negative to use something like coconut milk if coconut fits that particular pastry's flavor-combination. Apart from some types of vegan techniques resulting in somewhat different structure/texture/firmness (mostly some non-aquafaba ways just result in something that isn't quite as fluffy), I don't see what would make them actually taste appalling, unless you're using bananas in something and you hate bananas.
 

Sesha

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,812
2 and 3 is no problem, but I still struggle with no. 1. I can alter between chicken, turkey, fish dishes and vegetarian soup for dinner, but I need to learn how to vary recipes and lunch meals, because when I tire of a food, I tire hard to the point I can barely eat it.
 

Vengerberg

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
50
Where on Earth have you eaten so much bad vegan baking that has made you think all vegan baking is so bad that all of it can be evaluated as appalling? I held a vegan pop-up restaurant and got nothing but praise/good words for my carrot cakes, orange-chocolate-custard pastries, avokado-chocolate-cake, blueberry pie, lemon muffins, mushroom pie etc. that I served there.

Being a vegan actually made me enjoy food more even. So I totally agree. And I would have loved to have some of these cakes you're mentioning... :O
 

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,100
Chesire, UK
Well, that's only if you take their suggestions to their furthest extreme.

  • You don't have to become a vegetarian. You just can reduce your meat consumption, especially of beef which is the worst for the environment.
  • You don't have to buy a new car. You can try to use your existing car less, by taking public transit or carpooling to work.
  • Electricity supply is a difficult one but many utility companies let you pay a bit more for only "green" energy sources like solar and wind.
  • Simple things can be done to improve energy efficiency of a house, like replacing an old A/C unit or furnace with a more energy efficient one or simply hanging curtains to trap heat.
  • If you can't handle adjusting your A/C up 2-3 degrees from 72 to 74-75, or adjusting your heat down from 70 to 67-68, I don't really know what to tell you. You'll save money on your energy bills too if you actually let the temperature not be locked at 70-72 degrees year round.
  • The article calls 3.5 ounces of meat a day a "high meat diet". That's not even a single decent burger. A day. Eating less meat than that is one of those "massive lifestyle changes" that people just aren't going to make
  • Using your car less, and public transport more, is neither easy nor desirable for most people. That's another of those "massive lifestyle changes" that people just aren't going to make.
  • Paying more for your energy is generally the opposite of what people try to do when choosing a new supplier. People will not be willing to take that cost on themselves.
  • Replacing large appliances costs money, especially so when they require professional installation, and is generally only done when the old one breaks. People will not be willing to take that cost on themselves.
  • I woke up to 36F outside today, and we're lucky to get a month where it hits 72F consistently. Not every country has a largely mild climate and ubiquitous A/C, but people do want to be comfortable in their own home. Asking people to voluntarily make themselves uncomfortable hot or cold is not going to get a lot of uptake.
Like I said: These solutions are about as far from simple as they could be. They are unrealistic pie-in-the-sky dreams.

Simple solutions are things like installing energy efficient light bulbs, making sure you switch lights off when you leave a room, having showers instead of baths, only boiling as much water as you need, etc. Small things that make barely any difference to people's lives, and similarly make almost no difference to your carbon footprint.

We are not going to solve this problem on an individual level. We're just not. It's completely unrealistic. The only hope is massive transnational governmental action on a scale which hasn't been seen since the Second World War. Peddling "simple" solutions is like trying to put a band-aid on a bullet wound.
 

nelsonroyale

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,126
I'm not sure anything in that article qualifies as "simple". The solutions boil down to:
  • Become a vegetarian.
  • Buy a new car (that will be much more expensive than your current car).
  • Research and change your electricity supplier not to the cheapest one available, but to the greenest (if you can even access that information).
  • Move to a new energy efficient house, or have your existing house made more energy efficient, at great personal expense.
  • Be hotter than you want to be in the summer and colder than you want to be in the winter.
All these suggestions are absolutely massive lifestyle changes and come at a significant personal or financial cost that virtually no-one is going to be willing to make without significant coercion.

'Massive' is in the eye of the beholder. For instance, eating substantially less meat is fairly easy if you improve your cooking skills, it can even save you money. I am a massive foodie, and enjoy meat, but nowadays find it super easy not eat meat at home. I think use car less for now and maximise public transport is do-able for quite a lot of people, it does take them to reasses what is necessary - but I think that is important. People can get used to any kind fo creature comfort, but it doesn't mean it is the best way to do things in the bigger scheme of things. There are increasingly amount of electricity suppliers using renewables. Even if you can't access there are many ways you can reduce your consumption through simply being more efficient and balancing what you do with other activities. Good insulation for your housing in a northern climate is a very important gain, I think there should be more support for those on lower income to upgrade. If you are on a reasonable income, there is little excuse not to invest though...It often saves money over the long term in terms of heating. In terms of heating again efficiently designed housing offer massive gains and save money in the long term, people should be supported to upgrade, but it is absolutely a worthy investment. Having a good temperature in your home is a grade 1 necessity in life, alongside good food.

Your simple solutions are what are considered low hanging fruit, i.e., change but not the tip of the ice berg. People's opinions and thoughts are much more maleable than you give them credit, just look at shifts in attitudes towards racial mixing among young people, sustainability in general (relative to the 60s), dropping litter...Smoking in public places, that was deemed to be a 'massive' shift, but proved a storm in a tea cup in the end (of course the time was right as they say). I don't think everything can be boiled down to public choice...that is a very bad option in the bigger scheme of things. Of course there needs to be penalisation and incentivisation to change behaviour. I.e., non-renewables need to be taxed higher (carbon tax) and subsidies need to be taken away. Electricity use should also have some constraints, i.e., base rate related to size of household and then additional rates for excess consumption. I think it is pretty clear that you can't only rely on people's capacity to self-limit their behaviour for the 'greater good' at the present time. Yeah, so obviously external pressures/incentives are drastically needed.
 
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Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
Being a vegan actually made me enjoy food more even. So I totally agree. And I would have loved to have some of these cakes you're mentioning... :O
I'm the same, actually. I mean, I enjoyed cooking when I still ate meat (in my 7th to 9th grade of school, I took all the optional cooking courses in our school while the rest of the boys mostly took woodwork & sports), but it really wasn't until starting to ditch meat & dairy that I really became enthusiastic about trying all kinds of new things (new veggies, new spices, new dishes altogether) and now I'm even trying to set up a vegan restaurant of some kind because of going with that path in my life.

I can send you some recipes if you want to try them. The orange-chocolate-custard pastry is god tier when I succeed perfectly. Most of them are fairly simple.
 

Deleted member 9237

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Oct 26, 2017
1,789
Famassu
All the vegan baking I've had has been stuff friends or friends of friends have made, I've not made any real attempt at it myself. Sure, it might be their baking and not the ingredients. I usually bake for others and I get perfectionist about it enough to not want to worry about egg substitutes. I might try it out in my spare time.
 

Vengerberg

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
50
I'm the same, actually. I mean, I enjoyed cooking when I still ate meat (in my 7th to 9th grade of school, I took all the optional cooking courses in our school while the rest of the boys mostly took woodwork & sports), but it really wasn't until starting to ditch meat & dairy that I really became enthusiastic about trying all kinds of new things (new veggies, new spices, new dishes altogether) and now I'm even trying to set up a vegan restaurant of some kind because of going with that path in my life.

I can send you some recipes if you want to try them. The orange-chocolate-custard pastry is god tier when I succeed perfectly. Most of them are fairly simple.

Would love to see some of your recipes! I'm an ok cook, but I don't have a lot of experience baking cakes and such. Eating them is another story,though.