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Artifact |OT| Mangoj eebayted

Oct 31, 2017
498
MA
Just had a super close match in phantom draft. Double Thunder God's Wrath with Aghanim's Sanctum in the first lane to kill 3 heros (axe, debbie and j'muy). In Lane 2 conflagration kills Sorla (my tower being at 6 HP) and March of Machines killing Crystal Maiden in the last lane. (my tower being at 7 hp). Be careful abandoning a lane early everyone.

This is a fun game.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,045
Speed Force
Finally lost on this one... pretty mad about it. I didn't even get outplayed, I drew only black cards for the first four turns (the deck is 50/50 split for some reason) and they picked off my only black hero right from the start. Never pulled health or healing items to keep anything alive. Then they top decked a Damocles when I otherwise would've had the win. I'm in the top #50 on the leaderboards but still.

 
Oct 27, 2017
4,751
Chicago
Finally lost on this one... pretty mad about it. I didn't even get outplayed, I drew only black cards for the first four turns (the deck is 50/50 split for some reason) and they picked off my only black hero right from the start. Never pulled health or healing items to keep anything alive. Then they top decked a Damocles when I otherwise would've had the win. I'm in the top #50 on the leaderboards but still.

A 9 streak ... very nice. My current best streak with Upkeep Killer is ... 2.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,380
I'm 60 hours in. I would say I'm about 10-20-15 preconstructed-draft-constructed, with the rest of the time doing deck building and bots. I'm fairly split between all the modes.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,207
I suddenly got this same thing. I had to switch my card on my account before christmas and bought multiple games fine but then tried to buy some cards on Artifact and it said I was restricted and had to wait until the 30th.
That's an intended security thing when you change payment methods, at least. Annoying as fuck if you don't expect it, but, yeah.
FUCK BOLT OF DAMOCLES!!!!!
Mmmm I just won using it.

TWICE!

FEELS GOOD, CAN'T LIE.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,045
Speed Force
I have no idea where I am going wrong but I always seem to lose after winning the first tower. Everything just seems to go downhill from there.
I can't see your games, but a guess is that you're over committing in one lane to the detriment of the other two. Look at the lanes you're losing, not the ones you're winning.

The big picture is important in Artifact. You can't be myopic in the same way as other card games, you have to think "is putting my resources into taking this lane worth it?". If an opponent has abandoned a lane you actually don't really need more than a single hero in there and there's no need to rush to take the tower unless you've got a combo to take the ancient.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,207
I can't see your games, but a guess is that you're over committing in one lane to the detriment of the other two. Look at the lanes you're losing, not the ones you're winning.

The big picture is important in Artifact. You can't be myopic in the same way as other card games, you have to think "is putting my resources into taking this lane worth it?". If an opponent has abandoned a lane you actually don't really need more than a single hero in there and there's no need to rush to take the tower unless you've got a combo to take the ancient.
Yup, that last thing especially is the mistake I make that most often leads to my losses. The last two games I played I won precisely because I didn't ignore the lanes I was losing. I poured resources (lots of them!) into preventing my opponent from winning any lanes while I widdled one lane down. The games were very even up until the very end when my plans came to fruition. (Annihilation followed the next turn by DAMOCLESSSSS hell yes.)
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,253
Watching people trying to counter mono blue on streams has been funny. Red/Black seems to be the only possibility but even that is inconsistent.

Wonder what balance changes will come from this? Bolt nerf? Change to Eclipse? Or buff something else?
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,380
I really feel like I'm awful at draft right now for some reason. I'm winning games fine in constructed but today I'm like 0-5 in draft so far and I can't quite pinpoint why.

^ R/B definitely seems the best way to counter monoblue that I've seen. I've also seen people try to counter monoblue with other types of blue decks...
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,253
I really feel like I'm awful at draft right now for some reason. I'm winning games fine in constructed but today I'm like 0-5 in draft so far and I can't quite pinpoint why.

^ R/B definitely seems the best way to counter monoblue that I've seen. I've also seen people try to counter monoblue with other types of blue decks...
I would think R/U would be the best of both world, but I"m not really sure.
 

Won

Member
Oct 27, 2017
229
Watching people trying to counter mono blue on streams has been funny. Red/Black seems to be the only possibility but even that is inconsistent.

Wonder what balance changes will come from this? Bolt nerf? Change to Eclipse? Or buff something else?
On reddit someone posted results of the qualifier for the next WePlay event and mono blue didn't do all that well apparently. Meta adjusted quite a bit. Also it seems to be really hard to play on the torunament timer.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,253
On reddit someone posted results of the qualifier for the next WePlay event and mono blue didn't do all that well apparently. Meta adjusted quite a bit. Also it seems to be really hard to play on the torunament timer.
I feel like it's not like it's an automatic win, you still have to know what you're doing. But it seems like at the high level Blue is pretty hard to defend against right now.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,380
I just had the chance to slay selemene and didn't take it.
Always slay selemene.

I lost, but had a potential draw had I not screwed up.

EDIT:

Chain Frost just perfectly saved my ass in expert constructed against a good Red/Black deck. Came in with initiative and cleared his board with the 7th repeat. Got a quick "oh shit" from the other guy too. That was a fun game. I love the games which really feel like they could go either way.

Monoblack is definitely still viable online, even if it can't get close to matching monoblue.

Talking of monoblue. I cannot stand how it feels like they can just continue to do whatever they want and it takes forever. Continual initiative into board wipes.

Mana nonsense into Arcane Assault is ridiculous.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
3,253
Was able to beat Mono Blue twice in constructed with a gold oriented fast paced mono black deck.

Felt good.

Trying to play more constructed, it feels like it moves so much faster than Draft.

Talking of monoblue. I cannot stand how it feels like they can just continue to do whatever they want and it takes forever. Continual initiative into board wipes.

Mana nonsense into Arcane Assault is ridiculous.
That's what I mean when I say Monoblue feels like there is no real counter. You basically start the match on a timer and if you can't win by mana 9 or 10 you've lost. They can have their heroes die constantly, they basically only need to be blockers of tower damage, they can constantly control initiative and have constant board placement control. They basically just have one downfall in being weak, but with Bolt and Selemene that's not really even a downfall because it's only a waiting game for them.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
3,380
I don't know about you, but it feels like monoblack vs monoblue, while technically winnable, requires perfect planning and on top of that a dose of luck.

It's all well and good saying you are running on a countdown, but that's all worth nothing when they can mostly wipe your board with 3 mana. My strategy is to basically hope they don't draw At Any Cost and do the following:

3 mana: Lay foundations, try to get quick kills to start getting money. Particularly focus on Luna.
4 mana: Try to keep their heroes alive, phase boots around and do other things to focus as much on face as possible.
5 mana: Lethal if possible, if not then wipe as many heroes as possible to minimize turn 6 board wipes. If Luna is not in lane 1, Gank her to prevent another eclipse charge.
6 mana: Hip Fire, Coup De Grace any remaining heroes, hope to get lethal with the space created.
7 mana: Chain Frost. If this isn't enough then RIP.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,253
Talking of monoblue. I cannot stand how it feels like they can just continue to do whatever they want and it takes forever. Continual initiative into board wipes.

Mana nonsense into Arcane Assault is ridiculous.
I don't know about you, but it feels like monoblack vs monoblue, while technically winnable, requires perfect planning and on top of that a dose of luck.

It's all well and good saying you are running on a countdown, but that's all worth nothing when they can mostly wipe your board with 3 mana. My strategy is to basically hope they don't draw At Any Cost and do the following:

3 mana: Lay foundations, try to get quick kills to start getting money. Particularly focus on Luna.
4 mana: Try to keep their heroes alive, phase boots around and do other things to focus as much on face as possible.
5 mana: Lethal if possible, if not then wipe as many heroes as possible to minimize turn 6 board wipes. If Luna is not in lane 1, Gank her to prevent another eclipse charge.
6 mana: Hip Fire, Coup De Grace any remaining heroes, hope to get lethal with the space created.
7 mana: Chain Frost. If this isn't enough then RIP.
Basically. The set is just too hard to get face damage on when they have too much board clears in their play set. It's just a hard combination of board control, board wipes, and basically instant gg end game.

Black with the rush and instant kills seems like the best current counter, but I feel like Green has potential if it only had some kind of board clear.

Green seems like it has the best total playset other than Blue but right now it's the weakest because it basically has no real board clear and no initiative control or instant hero effects other than something like Intimidation.
 
OP
OP
shira

shira

Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,016
I don't know about you, but it feels like monoblack vs monoblue, while technically winnable, requires perfect planning and on top of that a dose of luck.

It's all well and good saying you are running on a countdown, but that's all worth nothing when they can mostly wipe your board with 3 mana. My strategy is to basically hope they don't draw At Any Cost and do the following:

3 mana: Lay foundations, try to get quick kills to start getting money. Particularly focus on Luna.
4 mana: Try to keep their heroes alive, phase boots around and do other things to focus as much on face as possible.
5 mana: Lethal if possible, if not then wipe as many heroes as possible to minimize turn 6 board wipes. If Luna is not in lane 1, Gank her to prevent another eclipse charge.
6 mana: Hip Fire, Coup De Grace any remaining heroes, hope to get lethal with the space created.
7 mana: Chain Frost. If this isn't enough then RIP.
I make my own luck
 

Won

Member
Oct 27, 2017
229
I'm sure mono red is supposed to be all the craze now/soon and is doing good against mono blue.

I do think they need a general look at how damage/removal spells are costed in the game. At Any Cost is the one that sticks out the most obviously. Control is always gonna be obnoxious but wiping black heroes with their creeps of the board starting with turn 1 is kinda silly. People don't even look at the other AOE spells. Something went wrong here.

The rest is kinda fine, though imo a 20 direct tower damage card should not exist in this game no matter how "balanced" it might be.

Obviously the first set also shows its weakness here. There is nothing sticky you can put on the board. Only a single creep with an "on death" effect and one with a death shield, neither doing anything worthwhile against a boardclear.

Basically, I'm sooo ready for new cards. :(
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,253
Wild idea: Give bolt or some of the big blue board clear spells a consequence similar to Coup. If Bolt had the potential of making them lose their other Bolt or board clears it may be at least slightly second guessed.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,380
I think a nerf to At Any Cost, and some buffs to other colours to give them ways of dealing with mana and initiative control is all that's needed. Control will always be a thing. A turn 1 board wipe shouldn't be possible IMO. Downgrading it to 4 damage to ensure melee creep kills would be fine.

20 tower damage from Bolt is also a bit much, but IMO if they are in a position to bolt you, it's probably too late for you anyway.

EDIT: I just got Lodestone Demolition'ed when I had like 30 armor lol. I thought I had it won...
 
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Oct 25, 2017
7,045
Speed Force
Just played a guy in draft with three Time of Triumph :(

I understand insane luck is going to happen sometimes but it always happens in ticketed draft

e: next opponent was PA, Sniper, Bounty, The Oath, 2x Disciples fml what a waste to go 0-2
 
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Won

Member
Oct 27, 2017
229
First game of the year was against a B/U Payday/Vesture deck.

That was exhausting enough that I needed a break right away again. (Neither of us seemed to have a win condition in hand *shudder*)


I hope Valve returns from their holiday break soon. They need to push stuff hard the coming weeks and months.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,078
Ugh, my talent has completely deserted me since they instituted the rankings system. No perfect runs on casual draft, and most of the time I'm not making it above .500. Did anyone notice the skill of people improving after the patch, or is it just me?
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,380
Ugh, my talent has completely deserted me since they instituted the rankings system. No perfect runs on casual draft, and most of the time I'm not making it above .500. Did anyone notice the skill of people improving after the patch, or is it just me?
In my experience, the same thing is happening to Artifact which happens to a lot of fighting games I play. The casual crowd left pretty quickly and we are now left with the few hundred people queuing in each mode who know what they are doing.

Even with a good draft, it feels like I need to play 100% just to go 3-2.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,253
In my experience, the same thing is happening to Artifact which happens to a lot of fighting games I play. The casual crowd left pretty quickly and we are now left with the few hundred people queuing in each mode who know what they are doing.

Even with a good draft, it feels like I need to play 100% just to go 3-2.
Yeah, pretty much this is the feeling I'm getting. It feels rare to see a bad play or move lately.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,380
I was just thinking up features I'd like to see, and I remembered a challenge mode I used to play in Duelyst.

Basically every day they would give you a board, a hand, and 1 turn to calculate the exact lethal.

It might not be possible to replicate that exactly in Artifact due to the more back and forward nature, but some kind of similar "win from this position" practice mode would be pretty sweet.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
1,746
So i just realized, the game doenst show how many items the oponent bought until after the deployment phase. I wanted to deploy a hero depending on if my oponent used their 8 gold, how much gold they used and how many cards they got to get an idea if they bought a consumable or a small hp item but i coudnt. I wonder if its a balance thing that they dont show the items in the hand inmediatly after the shop phase
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,045
Speed Force
Finally pulled off Luna + Blink Dagger to get double charges in a single turn and just enough to clear a lane. Had been wanting to do it for so long and finally nailed it (this is in draft). Felt good.

So i just realized, the game doenst show how many items the oponent bought until after the deployment phase. I wanted to deploy a hero depending on if my oponent used their 8 gold, how much gold they used and how many cards they got to get an idea if they bought a consumable or a small hp item but i coudnt. I wonder if its a balance thing that they dont show the items in the hand inmediatly after the shop phase
I'm not sure if it's for balancing, but I did notice you 'draw' it like a normal card after the round has started. Maybe it's just an aesthetic choice to make it a cohesive part of the draw animation instead of a separate instance between purchasing and deploying?