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Artifact |OT| Development Stopped
- Thread starter Deleted member 2802
- Start date
- OT
I don't know about anyone saying it's a failure. I more feel bad that it has a seemingly bigger production value put behind it when they probably thought the viewers would be much higher when the budget was decided.
OP
OP
It's completely different ballgames between games and companies and PR firms spin the numbers to make their game look favorable, featured on the frontpage, Twitch collaborations etc.
The budget and advertising that Blizzard spends is in the millions so of course they are going to have waaaay more viewers.
Blizzard sells $20 Twitch bundles for their Overwatch League and $40 bundles for Blizzcon. So it's important that they have viewers so they can go to advertisers and potential sponsors and tell them we had X thousand eyes OMEN HP - give us X thousand dollars and free PC hardware for our LANs
Valve literally spent nothing on advertising Artifact and leave it up to 3rd parties to do their own thing.
Not just Artifact-related this, I know, but....
I really am getting fed up of Valve having shit-tons of money and being the video-game equivalent of Chidi (from the The Good Place).
"Ah,we could do this, but we don't want to affect things too much"
"We could do this, but humans are fallible, so let's machine-learning it"
"We could do this, but then it wouldn't be perfect, so"
OP
OP
It's their business model
Cream rise to the top
Survival of the fittest
How are you supposed to know when there's a tournament to watch/enter without following a bunch of people on other platforms? There's nothing about this stuff on Steam, just patch update announcements.
I'd enter tournaments for fun/glory but I have no idea where anything is
I'd enter tournaments for fun/glory but I have no idea where anything is
.
I was thinking the same thing. It really does feel like Valve have sent the game out to die. :(
I was thinking the same thing. It really does feel like Valve have sent the game out to die. :(
I gave up trying to keep up with the 10 or so different sites doing tournaments daily. It was basically a race to keep up with the different sites and then the times they would open before filling up.
The tourney capability may be the best thing about this game but it REALLY needs fleshed out. It needs a viewer/search almost similar to an online poker site. Give me a list of all the tourneys and give the host features to be able to handle prizes and stuff. I can't see how it wouldn't be an insanely popular idea.
Weplay is up and running again today. Lifecoach in the first match going on right now, Swim later.
The game hit a new low last night, according to Steamcharts: fewer than 1500 concurrent players. Valve really better have something good cooked up for this next major update.
I finally took the plunge yesterday and listed all of my cards for sale.
Got more than I expected given where prices currently are. So far I got around 1/3 of what I put into the game (including the $20 cost of the game), and I still have many cards listed that haven't sold yet.
It's a shame because i really enjoyed the gameplay, but I just don't see it recovering at all.
But if it does, I'll still have access to phantom draft.
Got more than I expected given where prices currently are. So far I got around 1/3 of what I put into the game (including the $20 cost of the game), and I still have many cards listed that haven't sold yet.
It's a shame because i really enjoyed the gameplay, but I just don't see it recovering at all.
But if it does, I'll still have access to phantom draft.
F2P draft + some sort of meaningful ranking / ladder system would probably a good start.
I doubt they're expecting any huge impact or return to the player count at this point. Basically just have to make good on what is there and try to lure people back slowly with good updates.
I think a meaningful ladder with some kind of incentive for going up that ladder will at least start to help and keep people playing where right now a lot of people probably got to lvl 16 and just decided to wait for an update for something more to do.
Game needs an expansion and fast. That's the only way, other than turning it free-to-play that I can see a significant player increase.
The plausible way for a steady increase is consistently supporting the game, eventually the memes and misinformation regarding the game will calm down.
But I have to say my confidence is shaky, on one side that balance update made me happy since they changed their stance.
But ever since zero communication, nothing about that 1 million dollar tournament. One of their biggest features, tournament mode, is barely used. No promotion events, they freaking had 10k beta tournaments and can't be bothered to do one or two now?
Yeah...
In other news I opened Axe so, yay.
The plausible way for a steady increase is consistently supporting the game, eventually the memes and misinformation regarding the game will calm down.
But I have to say my confidence is shaky, on one side that balance update made me happy since they changed their stance.
But ever since zero communication, nothing about that 1 million dollar tournament. One of their biggest features, tournament mode, is barely used. No promotion events, they freaking had 10k beta tournaments and can't be bothered to do one or two now?
Yeah...
In other news I opened Axe so, yay.
The real question is going to be, when do they decide it no longer makes sense for them to try and lure people back.
I think the game can still be improved to the point where it can sustain a reasonable playerbase. I hope Valve try their best to make that a reality, because I still think the base game is really good.
I think the game can still be improved to the point where it can sustain a reasonable playerbase. I hope Valve try their best to make that a reality, because I still think the base game is really good.
Some sort of improvements to the ladder/ranking system and a tease for the expansion set is what I am expecting. I mean, the game is almost two months old now. Even if the game was super healthy and popular, the expansion would likely be dropping in March (4-5 months between sets seems like the industry standard). They should think about moving that up until Feb., IMO.
Swim going out 0-2 in his second match. Ouch.
Seems like this is a tournament of relative unknowns coming with upset after upset.
Also MonoBlue seems dead. Not only did not many people bring it to We Play, but the deck has been getting stomped.
Seems like this is a tournament of relative unknowns coming with upset after upset.
Also MonoBlue seems dead. Not only did not many people bring it to We Play, but the deck has been getting stomped.
I'll be honest and say I won't miss seeing Mono Blue decks in constructed. There's just something about the nature of mono blue decks that is just psychologically frustrating to play against for me.
The funny thing is, that probably the most captivating and fun match of this tournament was a mirror match mono blue game.
I also hate mono blue though. I find it boring, and contrary to the idea of fun. Lets just stall as long as possible!
For me, it's not just that, there's a lot of psychological gamesmanship when playing against monoblue because the majority of their plays are instants that never need to appear on the board. It winds up being a lot of card counting for At all costs/annihilation/eclipse/Thundergods wrath/mystic flare/bolt of Damocles.
I only see a few matches, but I really enjoyed watching Swim vs DrHippi earlier. Monoblue vs Monoblack and plenty of interesting plays.
Oh it's definitely annoying as hell to play against. I was more talking from a stance of either playing it or watching it be played. It just seems anti-fun.
These commentators were not holding back on saying that may have been the worst play of the tourney. They were going hard on his decisions.
Lifecoach somehow pulling wins out of his ass. Been down multiple times but coming back.
Probably has been playing lots of custom tournaments which don't grant any XP
DrHippi is very experienced card game player, but its painfully clear he not spending time to the game lol
Yeah, Swim is kinda similar I think? He's only level like 12 isn't he? But he's been playing 8 hours a day constantly. He's just been playing a lot of custom games playtesting decks.
while cs go was never as low as artifact it still was at 1/400th of what it would be four years later in its second month of existance
i remember it being declared doa immediately and how it was too casual for 1.6 players and too hardcore for casuals or source players so now it's just garbage
granted we know valve took it and made quite the turn around
i think they could do tons to improve where it is and i have confidence that if they tried they'd succeed
granted the game, audience, people who work at the company, and gaming environment are pretty different compared to back then but i think it's still the biggest turn around that you can point to and knowing its the same company behind it gives me 100x the hope and confidence as i would have for an indie dev, or even a ubisoft
plus its a good game
i remember it being declared doa immediately and how it was too casual for 1.6 players and too hardcore for casuals or source players so now it's just garbage
granted we know valve took it and made quite the turn around
i think they could do tons to improve where it is and i have confidence that if they tried they'd succeed
granted the game, audience, people who work at the company, and gaming environment are pretty different compared to back then but i think it's still the biggest turn around that you can point to and knowing its the same company behind it gives me 100x the hope and confidence as i would have for an indie dev, or even a ubisoft
plus its a good game
The difference between CSGO and Artifact is that CSGO was building off the other counter strike games and as the product improved, it was likely to attract the audience still playing the previous counter strike games (especially once Valve discontinued them).
An equivalent would be if Valve developed DOTA 3 and most players didn't like it at first and kept playing DOtA 2. Then as Valve keeps developing it, players would leave DOtA2 for it and it would also attract new players.
Artifact is completely different, because while it shares lore with a Valve game (dota), it's a completely different game and a large part of the DOTA audience will never have any interest in it, no matter how good it is or what changes are made. It's attempting to draw the card game audience, but it lacks what I believe are the two biggest things digital card game players look for:
1) It needs to be F2P. Players who don't put in any money want to feel like they are making progress towards decks on a daily basis.
2) Games need to be relatively quick.
Unless it addresses these two, or at least the first point, I think the game is dead.
It's a shame too because I really enjoyed the game itself and thought it was a breath of fresh air in the digital card game market.
An equivalent would be if Valve developed DOTA 3 and most players didn't like it at first and kept playing DOtA 2. Then as Valve keeps developing it, players would leave DOtA2 for it and it would also attract new players.
Artifact is completely different, because while it shares lore with a Valve game (dota), it's a completely different game and a large part of the DOTA audience will never have any interest in it, no matter how good it is or what changes are made. It's attempting to draw the card game audience, but it lacks what I believe are the two biggest things digital card game players look for:
1) It needs to be F2P. Players who don't put in any money want to feel like they are making progress towards decks on a daily basis.
2) Games need to be relatively quick.
Unless it addresses these two, or at least the first point, I think the game is dead.
It's a shame too because I really enjoyed the game itself and thought it was a breath of fresh air in the digital card game market.
Anyone here a Mistborn fan? Dude named VinKelsier(main characters of Mistborn) just won a game on WePlay using a deck centered around Rix and Bracers of Sacrifice. I find this hilarious with Mistborn basically centered around a character sacrificing himself.
That was the best match I've seen so far. I love watching unconventional decks succeed.
It coming down to his last 8 cards is pretty hilarious. A different kind of stall I guess?
I'm enjoying the tournament but kinda hate the commentary. I'm used to getting Swim's play by play while he runs down the clock and these commentators are no replacement.
I can see it going F2P at this point, with a refund or packs given to players who request them and who bought before a certain date (essentially, their attitude to nerfing cards, but applied to the game itself). It's sad, because F2P is (I genuinely believe) antithetical to what Valve were aiming for, which is a physical card game in the real-world - applying the cost and style of MtG irl to a digital card game. But people just don't want that, and are vociferous in their outrage/anger/annoyance. But it would do wonders for the health of the game, and time F2P with the announcement of an expansion, and you'd have people digging into the Call to Arms packs in preparation for the new expansion.
As for quicker games, I just don't think it's possible past a certain point, and people are going to have to suck it up. Any physical card game is going to have long games when there's a decent amount of strategy to them - I've watched casual Magic games run to over an hour - and Artifact is too similar to physical card games in this sense. Many games, there's too many possibilities in card plays and trying to anticipate your opponent to drop the game time below a certain point.
I don't think the game length is even that bad if you don't take fucking forever to do your turns. Some people just literally sit there doing nothing at every opportunity in the game, that's why it takes so long.
Like sure its not a 3 turn and done type game, but still
Like sure its not a 3 turn and done type game, but still
Eh, most of the pros are using all of the timer legitimately
I don't go to 0 seconds, but I'm getting to under a minute on the timer pretty regularly and I'm definitely thinking the whole time
i haven't played the game in a month, but i could never figure out what would happen if i deployed my hero to a certain lane. who would end up blocking who is kind of basic information that i wanted to know in order to make my move
which position would my stuff spawn in?
which position would my opponent's stuff spawn in?
what changes if i put 0 or 1 or 2 heroes there?
what changes if my opponent puts 0 or 1 or 2 heroes there?
what if some of the attacks turned left or right instead of straight?
presumably all of these probabilities are calculable if you reverse engineers the rules (because why the fuck should the game tell you how to play it?), but it was not accessible within the 15 seconds they give you
there are two possibilities:
which position would my stuff spawn in?
which position would my opponent's stuff spawn in?
what changes if i put 0 or 1 or 2 heroes there?
what changes if my opponent puts 0 or 1 or 2 heroes there?
what if some of the attacks turned left or right instead of straight?
presumably all of these probabilities are calculable if you reverse engineers the rules (because why the fuck should the game tell you how to play it?), but it was not accessible within the 15 seconds they give you
there are two possibilities:
- the randomness is fine and the timer is a design flaw
- the randomness is a design flaw and the timer is fine
Third possibility: It's emulating a physical card game where you would draw face down from a deck of direction cards to determine attacks, and place the Hero card within that draw pile to ensure true randomness in placement. It makes way more sense if you've played RoboRally:
The kicker here?
Which I didn't know until I just Google'd the game.
Where you spawn is random, but you will always spawn in open spots across from enemies first. The number of heroes or creeps doesn't matter, they'll be spread randomly.
Where the arrows point are 50% straight, 25% left, 25% right if you're against an open spot. If you're opposing a unit, you'll always point straight.
That's all there is to it. It sounds super random, but you can still manipulate where your hero goes because you know open spots take priority.
These are all good points which I subconsciously knew, and therefore completely didn't mention in my post.
Also damn it's crazy how much the meta shifts have pushed Drow out of favor. Doesn't really have much to do with the nerf, just that you want different heroes for ramp. If aggro green came in she'd be right back there.
It feels like she's just not as good as she first looked. Her signature is just okay - more a delaying tactic than anything else - she's pretty frail at 7 health, and her +1 only really works well if you've got a ton of creeps. If you can get some health items on her pretty quickly then she feels better to play, but even then you're still only delaying the inevitable, when you should be going on the offensive more I think.
Late edit:
Running a 45 card Black deck now. I'll feel kinda dirty using Assassinate and Coup de Grace, but it's not bad.
2nd Edit: Deck here. The Cover of Nights are a bit superfluous maybe, but my first couple of games running the deck had issues with 2 and 3 Heroes in one lane, hitting the Ancient for not much whilst I was losing the other two lanes.
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I've read the original trilogy 3 or 4 times by now :), just recently read through Arcanum Unbounded knowing nothing about it and was surprised by 2 Kelsier short stories. Not sure what to think of the 2nd but it was certainly interesting.
The thing about game length is doing things like speeding up the animations and adding a toggleable auto-pass would speed the game up massively. There's no reason I should have to watch a tree run out to the battlefield and back for five seconds or keep pressing the button if I don't have anything I want to do. Even the start of round stuff can be sped up massively. Why does it take so long for the game to deploy everything and draw cards?
Even if all that stuff doesn't actually impact the game time that much, it would at least make the game feel faster.
Even if all that stuff doesn't actually impact the game time that much, it would at least make the game feel faster.