Artifact |OT| Mangoj eebayted

Forerunner

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
4,109
San Diego
The RNG doesn't really bother me that much in this game. When I lose, I generally can pinpoint where I made my mistake(s). It's one of the reasons I really like this game, I feel like I have a control over my destiny. Like I also play HS a lot and that game drives me crazy because RNG literally decides games. With Artifact if you get bad RNG you can play around it.
 

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,966
I think there's a difference between "if Valve don't remove the RNG it's playable" and "It'd be improved by removing or toning down the RNG". I've always felt Artifact is at its best when a strategy comes together, and it's almost as good a feeling when a loss comes and you can say "Ah, yeah, I should've done/not done this". But the game is at its worst when you shrug and say "Well, there's nothing I could've done to prevent that, because the shop RNG screwed me, the Card placement RNG screwed me, and the Arrow direction RNG screwed me". And if Valve only improve/remove the shop RNG, then, yeah, I'll be happy, because it'll feel like I have some semblance of control, even when the other RNGs screw me. I just wonder what it would be like without any RNG.

Though, obviously, the best answer to all this would be for Valve to include custom modes, with a configurable card placement and arrow RNG.
 

ZeroX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,523
Speed Force
I don’t see custom placement ever happening. The game would get even slower, picking hero lanes is more than enough. No random arrows maybe. They could reconfigure the shop. I figured that whenever a new expansion came they’d reevaluate things there.

I just had a game where the minion spawn and arrows were completely against me, I knew it, my opponent knew it, but I still played safely for worst case scenario and won. Just, but still.
 

Tim

Member
Oct 25, 2017
350
The better question is if Artifact will ever become popular with the RNG. It's the #1 gameplay complaint players had. The people who get past the initial hump of learning the game understand it's manageable, but most people don't get that far. From a game design perspective, that's pretty damning regardless of how balanced it is.

If Artifact's problems are only monetization and structure, then it's not a big deal. I'm not sure if those were the only issues though.
 

Won

Member
Oct 27, 2017
335
There have been a lot of games, which suffered never ending complaints form a very loud subset of players about RNG. (including Valve games!) It has never been a detriment. Usually it is the opposite. Artifact failed to capture an audience, that doesn't mean the topic suddenly deserve anymore oxygen it already got.
 
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Tim

Member
Oct 25, 2017
350
People don't really complain about cards like Eclipse or Chainfrost though. I don't think it's comparable.
 

Won

Member
Oct 27, 2017
335
Online discourse is a feedback loop. Don't expect nuance or logic, especially if reddit plays a central role.
 

thepotatoman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,108
Denver
Online discorse about RNG is always dumb, because they stupidly always assume it means less skill, but there is still plenty of examples of bad RNG.

The more I think about it, the more I realize how much thinking energy I spend on thinking through the odds and outcomes of all the potential placement RNG. It's a lot of work, for what feels like little immediate and clear reward. It's almost asking for too much skill, always preparing for the case the arrow or placement goes wrong. Maybe without it I wouldn't feel exhausted after a couple of games.

But still the top of my wishlist is more creativity in card design. Needs to be way more words like "if" or "whenever" in the card text.
 
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ZeroX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,523
Speed Force
I don't think I've ever gotten a perfect run with Blue in draft

It's so fucking bad but I still keep trying to make it work

Also not a fan of red but at least the heroes can just sort of win games on their own and there's a few OP creeps
 

Tim

Member
Oct 25, 2017
350
I actually have had a lot of luck with blue / red drafts. But you really need some high value blue cards for it to be worth it.
 

RepairmanJack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,066
I think there needs to be a counter to lock and some kind of gain from lock on the offensive side. Some hero that gains something from cards being locked, or something along those lines I think would make lock more interesting.
 

Almeister

Member
Oct 25, 2017
479
Ugh I really wanna make a lock deck for the rage
https://www.playartifact.com/d/ADCJcoONrgCGI1KELO8ApGJcAEFDpFMbQG3AUKEYAFVDEFMb2NrZG93biwgQmFieQ__

This is the deck I put together - it regularly gets me 4-5 win streaks (and salty custom messages ¬_¬ ).

I think there needs to be a counter to lock and some kind of gain from lock on the offensive side. Some hero that gains something from cards being locked, or something along those lines I think would make lock more interesting.
I agree. It's barely a mechanic at the moment really, and something I always expected would be expanded upon in the manner you're talking about here in future expansions, back before the game's playerbase went off the cliff anyway. Now, I guess we'll see.
 

ZeroX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,523
Speed Force
I've noticed more people going AFK at the start of the match, I guess the longer waits for matches are doing that.

I'm also pretty sure Chinese guys are trying to pay their way to the top of the ladder? I'm coming up against very low level (1-3) Chinese players who draft absolutely insane decks and absolutely know what they're doing. I'm guessing they buy the game again, and reroll until they get bonkers decks? I'm not sure why they'd do it in Prize Draft, but I guess if money isn't an issue whynot?

https://www.playartifact.com/d/ADCJcoONrgCGI1KELO8ApGJcAEFDpFMbQG3AUKEYAFVDEFMb2NrZG93biwgQmFieQ__

This is the deck I put together - it regularly gets me 4-5 win streaks (and salty custom messages ¬_¬ ).
I'll try it out!
 

ZeroX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,523
Speed Force
Okay just lost to a guy who multicasted FIVE times in a row

I'll admit the game has some RNG

e: I actually posted this prematurely and right before the game ended they got a sixth one lmao
 

RepairmanJack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,066
People keep getting hopeful for every thursday, but if they're really planning on some kind of relaunch I feel like they wouldn't stealth launch it. They'd probably reveal it before actually launching it.
 

Tim

Member
Oct 25, 2017
350
I'm in this weird cycle where I keep telling myself it'll be a while but then I'm disappointed nothing has happened.
 

RepairmanJack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,066
I just don't know how long a while is anymore. We basically haven't gotten anything for about 2 and a half months at this point.

The longer we go with nothing the weirder the random item price changes seem.
 

Tim

Member
Oct 25, 2017
350
I mean it really depends on what they're doing. It would help if we knew what Valve thinks is the problem. Are they just turning this into a f2p game and adding the puzzle stuff or are they making more fundamental changes to the gameplay?
 

ZeroX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,523
Speed Force
I’m stuck at a boring event for four hours with only my tablet and oh my god I’d love nothing more than a mobile version of Artifact right now. Should’ve left my computer on and streamed it. I’m on a losing streak and need my redemption.

People keep getting hopeful for every thursday, but if they're really planning on some kind of relaunch I feel like they wouldn't stealth launch it. They'd probably reveal it before actually launching it.
Didn’t they drop the last patch on like a Monday anyway?
 

ZeroX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,523
Speed Force
just had a 45 minute game, got to 16 mana, holy shit that was attrition. Not worth it to lose :(

Won my next game in under 5 minutes by gambling with a turn one Oath. Was a bad play but I lucked out
 

enempi

Member
Mar 9, 2018
242
The way this game has been managed is baffling. What was the point of doing the very minor item price changes just to go dark for, what, almost 3 months now? They kind of gave the impression they would keep pushing balance changes and small new features as they tried to turn the game around instead of just abandoning the initial playerbase. It feels pretty bad to have paid for a game like this at launch, to get essentially zero updates and have the game seemingly be abandoned to relaunch F2P. They don't really seem concerned with the excited people who jumped in day 1 and have almost nothing to show for it.

I get that they are (hopefully) working on something big, and I hope they turn the game around becuase it's genuinely a good game, but I kind of question with the way things have gone if people are really ever going to come back. Even if 2.0 drops and is an amazing update - new cards, generous F2P model, tons new features - will it really do anything? The game has been out of the news for months now, kind of feels like no one really cares anymore and they missed their shot. I bought the game day 1 and played 25 hours, and I would be into coming back for more, but considering Hearthstone set rotation is right around the corner and I don't question if that game is abandoned I'll probably just play that instead.
 

RepairmanJack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,066
I abandoned this a few days after they patched in the leveling system. Any other major updates yet that could get me to start playing again?
No

The hilarious thing about that update is that it's the biggest update the game has received, and most speculated and thought it was a half assed thrown together last minute patch to put out before they went on vacation to stop the bleeding. Then it ended up being basically the last big patch we had before complete radio silence.
 

Won

Member
Oct 27, 2017
335
The way this game has been managed is baffling. What was the point of doing the very minor item price changes just to go dark for, what, almost 3 months now? They kind of gave the impression they would keep pushing balance changes and small new features as they tried to turn the game around instead of just abandoning the initial playerbase. It feels pretty bad to have paid for a game like this at launch, to get essentially zero updates and have the game seemingly be abandoned to relaunch F2P. They don't really seem concerned with the excited people who jumped in day 1 and have almost nothing to show for it.

I get that they are (hopefully) working on something big, and I hope they turn the game around becuase it's genuinely a good game, but I kind of question with the way things have gone if people are really ever going to come back. Even if 2.0 drops and is an amazing update - new cards, generous F2P model, tons new features - will it really do anything? The game has been out of the news for months now, kind of feels like no one really cares anymore and they missed their shot. I bought the game day 1 and played 25 hours, and I would be into coming back for more, but considering Hearthstone set rotation is right around the corner and I don't question if that game is abandoned I'll probably just play that instead.
It's all kinds of fucked up, but letting the masses forget about the game and staying out of news might be the best strategy for Valve, after everything from announcement to beta was such a disaster. Just a complete reboot.

Of course as a customer I'm not all that willing to give them the benefit of doubt again.

Anyway, Gwent is starting revealing cards for its first expansion and Heartstone is gonna start up things this week too. Sooooo, hey, we might maybe, eventuelly, but probably not, see something this month.
 

ZeroX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,523
Speed Force
Gwent is only just getting it's first expansion now? I know it only "officially" released a few months ago but it's really been around nearly two years. I can't imagine waiting that long for Artifact.

e: I didn't realize Gwent had a platinum trophy on PS4, how hard is it to get lol, I could maybe do that while passing the time before Artifact revives
 
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toastyToast

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,081
Gwent has been incrementally adding cards like 20 each season iirc. It's strange but this is the first formal massive dump of cards.
 

Forerunner

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
4,109
San Diego
I actually been playing draft more since the 70-75 grind is impossible. I'm actually having a better time. It's nice not playing meta decks and just chilling.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,861
I'm not sure when they'll announce a new expansion. They've got a nasty window ahead; April is the next Hearthstone expansion along with the rotation, May is the next Magic expansion.
 

Yerffej

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,166
Man I haven't played this in forever. I was on Twitch last night and saw 49 people were playing it. Come in here expecting it to be a little more lively. Color me stunned they haven't even updated since I played last. What the fuck happened?
 

thepotatoman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,108
Denver
Technically nothing...
Well, 5 weeks ago they had a patch with some item gold cost tweaks and a patch note saying "still in it for the long haul".

So there's that...

Basically Artifact 1.0 should be considered dead and buried at this point. Given the (lowercase h) half-life of the playerbase being about two weeks, the player base is going to drop to the double digits next month. Now it's just a waiting room for Artifact 2.0, though valve waiting rooms don't have the best track record.
 
OP
OP
shira

shira

Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,579
Man I haven't played this in forever. I was on Twitch last night and saw 49 people were playing it. Come in here expecting it to be a little more lively. Color me stunned they haven't even updated since I played last. What the fuck happened?
TI9 stuff will need doing soon, once that crunch starts, prolly nothing until September.

Also what Valve do or do not do with Autochess will probably tell a lot about their plans for Artifact.