One of the bigger controversies around the time of LOTR's filming was around some leaked(?) images of the Helm's Deep set. Namely, it was that Arwen herself would have taken part in the battle, presumably alongside Haldir and the rest of the Lorien elves, which in and of itself was a change from Tolkein's novels.
The changes for her arc were a bit more drastic. Halfway through the film, Galadriel and Elrond have a 'psychic' conversation, largely a method for the film to re-establish what the broader situation looks like in Middle-Earth before your big action-heavy final third. But this conversation is largely a result of editing and pick-ups. as Arwen and Elrond were at one point to go to Lothlorien and speak directly with Galadriel. This would lead into Arwen joining up with Aragorn for the film's massive setpiece battle. There are brief glimpses of her that can still be found in the final version, particularly at the end with Aragorn and Theoden riding out against the Uruks.
And note, this cut scene between Arwen and Galadriel would have been the only scene between two notable female characters in any of these movies, aside from Eowyn and some Rohan extras.
It's not really known what kind of ripple effect this might have had on Return of the King, but what is done to Arwen in both of the final two films is nothing short of a low-point. Instead of any kind of active participant in the story, Arwen's role in TT relegates her to crying on a bed, pining for her mortal love, and some wildly unnecessary flashbacks to Elrond trying to convince Aragorn to break up with her. She simply then refuses to break up with him, culminating these set of events into... absolutely nothing. This continues in ROTK with an extremely embarrassing soap-opera moment of Arwen seeing into the future at her and Aragorn's son, and a confrontation with her father.
This... seems like a real step down from what they originally planned.
Alot of the changes were seemingly as a result of harsh fan reaction to the leaks where she was mockingly-dubbed "Arwen: Warrior Princess," though Xena was rad, so I'm not sure what the actual insult is. Nevertheless, New Line and Jackson radically diminished Arwen's involvement in the active plot for the film.
This isn't the only cut to a major female cast-member, as Miranda Otto was meant to engage in a brief moment of combat in Two Towers as some Uruks made their way into the Glittering Caves, and Eowyn is left to defend the cowering civilians.
Though this cut may have been more to streamline the final fight, and also make her choice to fight in ROTK more impactful, it still is a disappointment.
My question is this: considering the much more open criticism we see towards Hollywood's relationship with women, particularly those in action roles, with how brazenly toxic fandoms are being exposed and challenged, would these changes have been made today? I don't know that I would say the Arwen changes could have been a benefit for the film as it's only more apparent just how much of a sausage-fest LOTR is. The Arwen scenes in Two Towers are just a bafflingly pointless distraction which really supports nothing within the film, and again, relegates the character to crying on a bed about her relationship. The idea of her being a more active agent within the film, continuing her badass streak from FOTR, and potentially being what helps inspire Eowyn to ride out to the Pelennor Fields, is all for more appealing. Even the Hobbit attempted to rectify the gender discrepancy, until it forced Evangeline Lilly's original character into a late-fabricated love-triangle in reshoots.
Thoughts?
Fly to the ford if old.
The changes for her arc were a bit more drastic. Halfway through the film, Galadriel and Elrond have a 'psychic' conversation, largely a method for the film to re-establish what the broader situation looks like in Middle-Earth before your big action-heavy final third. But this conversation is largely a result of editing and pick-ups. as Arwen and Elrond were at one point to go to Lothlorien and speak directly with Galadriel. This would lead into Arwen joining up with Aragorn for the film's massive setpiece battle. There are brief glimpses of her that can still be found in the final version, particularly at the end with Aragorn and Theoden riding out against the Uruks.
And note, this cut scene between Arwen and Galadriel would have been the only scene between two notable female characters in any of these movies, aside from Eowyn and some Rohan extras.
It's not really known what kind of ripple effect this might have had on Return of the King, but what is done to Arwen in both of the final two films is nothing short of a low-point. Instead of any kind of active participant in the story, Arwen's role in TT relegates her to crying on a bed, pining for her mortal love, and some wildly unnecessary flashbacks to Elrond trying to convince Aragorn to break up with her. She simply then refuses to break up with him, culminating these set of events into... absolutely nothing. This continues in ROTK with an extremely embarrassing soap-opera moment of Arwen seeing into the future at her and Aragorn's son, and a confrontation with her father.
This... seems like a real step down from what they originally planned.
Alot of the changes were seemingly as a result of harsh fan reaction to the leaks where she was mockingly-dubbed "Arwen: Warrior Princess," though Xena was rad, so I'm not sure what the actual insult is. Nevertheless, New Line and Jackson radically diminished Arwen's involvement in the active plot for the film.
This isn't the only cut to a major female cast-member, as Miranda Otto was meant to engage in a brief moment of combat in Two Towers as some Uruks made their way into the Glittering Caves, and Eowyn is left to defend the cowering civilians.
Though this cut may have been more to streamline the final fight, and also make her choice to fight in ROTK more impactful, it still is a disappointment.
My question is this: considering the much more open criticism we see towards Hollywood's relationship with women, particularly those in action roles, with how brazenly toxic fandoms are being exposed and challenged, would these changes have been made today? I don't know that I would say the Arwen changes could have been a benefit for the film as it's only more apparent just how much of a sausage-fest LOTR is. The Arwen scenes in Two Towers are just a bafflingly pointless distraction which really supports nothing within the film, and again, relegates the character to crying on a bed about her relationship. The idea of her being a more active agent within the film, continuing her badass streak from FOTR, and potentially being what helps inspire Eowyn to ride out to the Pelennor Fields, is all for more appealing. Even the Hobbit attempted to rectify the gender discrepancy, until it forced Evangeline Lilly's original character into a late-fabricated love-triangle in reshoots.
Thoughts?
Fly to the ford if old.
Last edited:
