I knew about the draw part because the MCs look young, but not the sexualizing. And catching up to the thread, gives a better look at it. I'm not about that shit
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As an anime fan, its unsettling/disturbing how many people defend lolicon
- Thread starter DragonSJG
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Been growing increasingly alienated from the anime community for a while mow because of shit like this. I never really realised how bad it was until I turned 18 and now I'm questioning how this problem has become so pervasive in the medium
Imagine if someone was hired to your workplace that learned English as a second language and somehow ended up with the idea that "jailbait" was equivalent to "child" or "kid". They see the picture of the boss' family on their desk and say "my, what lovely jailbait you have".
By the end of the week, someone is going to take that person aside during lunch and have a real awkward conversation.
By the end of the week, someone is going to take that person aside during lunch and have a real awkward conversation.
It's frustrating, as much as i love anime and anime adjacent media, it's really limiting my consumption at this point
Yeah, there are parts that made me feel sick. He tries to hide it, but you still can see what his intentions are.
Yeah I'm not really arguing that in the least, I understand that, but just trying to reason out why its very easy to just find folk using the term without those connotations. Heck the term having gained a much less malicious meaning probably helps mask the actual malicious cases and I can see why thst can be a problem in and of itself.
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Fuck the "it's not pedophilia" line of arguments so you can watch an anime series using it guilt free. Whatever you want to label lolicon, it's still fucked up and it's wrong to justify anything remotely approaching a mass media product utilizing it.
I'm looking at you Bravo Bikini.
I'm looking at you Bravo Bikini.
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are you sure?
Hugtto! Precure
Kishiryu Sentai Ryusoulger.
Gundam Iron Blood Orphan.
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I don't watch precure, didn't see Gundam and the second one isn't even anime, but still oofare you sure?
Hugtto! Precure
Kishiryu Sentai Ryusoulger.
Gundam Iron Blood Orphan.
Even if that were true, which is debatable, the medium is to the point where i can't just pick some random anime and it be fine, which makes discovering new shows harder
I mean, it's just not anime, it's in a lot of Japanese video games. Tell me, what started this whole Otaku nonsense and how do we stop it?
As long as the Japanese continue to buy it, there will be a market.
For one, it's off topic (you literally had to go "what about"), and for two, at least in the new movie, it's nothing like Roshi or Mineta because he's constantly the butt of the joke and gets beat up because of it. The framing is totally different. And as far as I can recall (don't quote me on this one) the characters involved are adults. Hence "it's off topic".
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It's a lot of factors, the seeds for otaku culture were planted in the 80s with the proliferation of OVAs (meaning they could create anime that didn't have to meet broadcast standards) and after the 90s when Japan had its own recession, the industry decided it was better to overpander to otaku and make money from their DVD/merch sales than try to produce content for wide audiences.
As for how to stop it...well, that's a problem that runs much deeper into Japan that could have its own thread, heh.
Its start on 70's with idol thing and No You Can't stop it.
Interesting detail to take into account:
Christ, are we doing this again?
That's the federal statute setting a minimum age of consent. Every prefecture in Japan has their own age of consent laws which supersede the federal minimum. The federal age of consent in Germany is 14. The United States doesn't even have a federal age of consent.
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Been a member for nearly a month, but your first and only post on your account is to try and use the age of consent in Japan (which isn't actually 13 btw) to defend pedophilia?Interesting detail to take into account:
That's not suspicious at all...
Well damn buddy. You did it, what the fuck is this taking into account? That doesn't make it ok.Interesting detail to take into account:
You created an account just to justify pedophilia? You sure got us!Interesting detail to take into account:
Yeah, and don't watch My Neighbor Totoro either...
It's not like western media is above sexualizing minors either (though not to lolicon levels thankfully). It's just that for the most part, it's targeted to other horny teenagers (though you can't really trust the Dan Schneider type stuff and the innuendos there). Like the CW is basically built on sexualizing highschoolers (or actors portraying highschoolers).
yeah, its one of the issues I have with anime (yeah I admit im not a fan of the average "anime tropes", which is fair of the typical "American sitcoms" too), because it's not just blatant objectification which looks silly (on women, I mean), but its on people who clearly its inappropriate for them to be dressed like that and its obvious typical Japanese society wouldn't have girls dressed like that (arguably the west is more liberal in parents dressing their daughters inappropriately like that).
Its just gross how hard some people defend it though. I'm not one of those people who say if you watch an anime (or play a game) with this design in it, then you must be a pedo, since that's obviously not accurate. But you do get people who are so insistent on it being there to the point where they would be upset or mad or refuse to play a game if a "loli" was changed into an adult woman. Those same type of people would get mad if more and more games/anime featured university aged women being treated like sexual objects too. Those type of people are who I take most issue with because at that point, its clear they are into the idea of objectifiying young girls and that's just sick
I know censorship is a touchy subject and all, but I still wish people had less freedom worldwide (but yes, especially japan) to draw these kind of things. We don't need it. teenagers don't need it either. its also fair to say the type of people who do "need" it too unfortunately. If things changed so that this content was never done anymore, I think it'd do a lot to not only improve how anime is viewed, but also give less encouragement to people already with sick ideas about kids.
on a side note, another forum I visit has a user who often uses the word loli (and waifu) and he also has said what Jeffrey Epstein did should be legal. that's not the first, second or even third time ive seen someone "proudly" use the term while also treating things like that or a lower age of consent as a good thing. I really don't want anything to encourage those people.
Its just gross how hard some people defend it though. I'm not one of those people who say if you watch an anime (or play a game) with this design in it, then you must be a pedo, since that's obviously not accurate. But you do get people who are so insistent on it being there to the point where they would be upset or mad or refuse to play a game if a "loli" was changed into an adult woman. Those same type of people would get mad if more and more games/anime featured university aged women being treated like sexual objects too. Those type of people are who I take most issue with because at that point, its clear they are into the idea of objectifiying young girls and that's just sick
I know censorship is a touchy subject and all, but I still wish people had less freedom worldwide (but yes, especially japan) to draw these kind of things. We don't need it. teenagers don't need it either. its also fair to say the type of people who do "need" it too unfortunately. If things changed so that this content was never done anymore, I think it'd do a lot to not only improve how anime is viewed, but also give less encouragement to people already with sick ideas about kids.
on a side note, another forum I visit has a user who often uses the word loli (and waifu) and he also has said what Jeffrey Epstein did should be legal. that's not the first, second or even third time ive seen someone "proudly" use the term while also treating things like that or a lower age of consent as a good thing. I really don't want anything to encourage those people.
I don't think those examples are in any way sexualised though. A parent bathing with their kids or a kid taking a bath wouldn't be seen as sexual; remember Japan has a culture of public baths which isn't seen as anything sexual.
This thread is clearly about discussing examples of sexualised images.
It was a joke because he mentioned Doraemon and kids bathing. It's innocent, like Totoro or even kid Goku's nudity in the first episode of DB.
But see, say, the first episode of Riverdale or something and tell me that's not sexualizing highschoolers.
Evangelion was one of my favorite shows growing up. When it hit Netflix, the blatant manipulation and sexualization of children grossed me out.
I watch maybe one series per season and decided to checkout Fire Force. Big mistake. By episode 2 they were already pushing a scantily clad teenager on the MC. That wasn't necessary at all and in no way helped develop the story.
I watch maybe one series per season and decided to checkout Fire Force. Big mistake. By episode 2 they were already pushing a scantily clad teenager on the MC. That wasn't necessary at all and in no way helped develop the story.
It's not exactly innocent? There are several scenario in which Nobita attempts to peep on Shizuka bathing. Besides, when there's a scene of naked Shizuka in practically every book, one starts to give it a side-eye.
In any case, it's a question to test what exactly the OP considers "lolicon content", because they're being kinda vague.
Yeah I think people who might not be as familiar with anime/manga as others are thinking they are one and the same. Thats the only explanation I can think of as to why MHA would have come up in this thread.
Riverdale is a disingenuous example. From what I can see having not watched it, it seems like a soap opera about high schoolers doing what high schoolers do. Lolicon is about very young characters being presented as sexual objects for the audience who are purchasing the media.
People saying that this turned them off of anime completely probably aren't helping. I don't mean that as an accusation - it would be bizarre to suggest that you have any duty to watch it - but as a way to highlight the forces that shape the market.
There are two ways in which the market becomes more otaku-driven.
First off. From the creator side. As a bigger body of works exist, the main influences on anime shift from reality and other media to existing anime, and the topics they have to speak about shift to anime itself. You have people raised on anime making anime. These people are essentially the same as otaku and going to naturally resonate with them.
Secondly, from the audience side. Manga is a wide and diverse medium that is made by all sorts of creators for all sorts of audiences. Anime somewhat less so because it's harder for one person to make it, but still roughly in the area.
This hasn't translated to its western popularity; we tend to focus on shounen - which, again, is not a genre but a target audience. Anime aimed at preteen and teenage boys is going to feature things that appeal or relate to that audience. That's the mainstream stuff in the west.
The other big money source are the things that won't catch on with the mainstream, but which appeals to otaku who will buy all your merchandise and are way more profitable than normal viewers. This is probably the nastiest stuff; this is where studios seek out light novels by creepy nerds who have already built up an audience of creepy nerds so you now it's proven.
As the creator side shifts more to otaku and the industry specializes more in catering to otaku, it becomes harder for them to sell in the already difficult mainstream market. I've read articles about how it's genuinely difficult to find anime artists who are good at drawing men now because they've become so used to drawing cute/sexy girls. So they continue to lean harder into that otaku market and compensate further for their difficulties in the mainstream market.
Honestly, I think the only think for it would be to take legal measures to force them to focus on normal stuff, but it's probably not going to be a pretty picture when that happens. There might be a nasty period where they have to adjust.
There are two ways in which the market becomes more otaku-driven.
First off. From the creator side. As a bigger body of works exist, the main influences on anime shift from reality and other media to existing anime, and the topics they have to speak about shift to anime itself. You have people raised on anime making anime. These people are essentially the same as otaku and going to naturally resonate with them.
Secondly, from the audience side. Manga is a wide and diverse medium that is made by all sorts of creators for all sorts of audiences. Anime somewhat less so because it's harder for one person to make it, but still roughly in the area.
This hasn't translated to its western popularity; we tend to focus on shounen - which, again, is not a genre but a target audience. Anime aimed at preteen and teenage boys is going to feature things that appeal or relate to that audience. That's the mainstream stuff in the west.
The other big money source are the things that won't catch on with the mainstream, but which appeals to otaku who will buy all your merchandise and are way more profitable than normal viewers. This is probably the nastiest stuff; this is where studios seek out light novels by creepy nerds who have already built up an audience of creepy nerds so you now it's proven.
As the creator side shifts more to otaku and the industry specializes more in catering to otaku, it becomes harder for them to sell in the already difficult mainstream market. I've read articles about how it's genuinely difficult to find anime artists who are good at drawing men now because they've become so used to drawing cute/sexy girls. So they continue to lean harder into that otaku market and compensate further for their difficulties in the mainstream market.
Honestly, I think the only think for it would be to take legal measures to force them to focus on normal stuff, but it's probably not going to be a pretty picture when that happens. There might be a nasty period where they have to adjust.
I said in my original post that it's not lolicon, it's "just" sexualizing underaged kids. Western media doesn't do lolicon without a ton of outrage but it does a lot of high schooler stuff. Like a LOT.
Ah, my fault, I either pushed that completely out of my memory or I just forgot that was in Doraemon.
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Evangelion's an interesting example. Rei was created specifically to show how creepy the traditional type of woman that appealed to anime fans would actually be. The fans ate that up unironically and other shows went on to imitate it.
I'm not watching too many anime's these days. Are their legit shows or movies that show characters under 18 in sexual situations?
EDIT: Stupid question I just thought of a couple examples.
This has always been weird to me. It's also weird when I see how popular porn videos are of women that act like children. Or "petite" girls that look like they're 13. It's really weird and says a lot about society in general.
EDIT: Stupid question I just thought of a couple examples.
This has always been weird to me. It's also weird when I see how popular porn videos are of women that act like children. Or "petite" girls that look like they're 13. It's really weird and says a lot about society in general.
Yeah it's really really bad and totally pointless. You'll get a few people trying to push the 'art' angle, but it's complete and total bullshit since the same could be accomplished without the pandering camera angles.
An example from the top of my head, the lead girl is shown completely naked in front of the lead male because she doesn't really view him as a person and thus shouldn't be shy naked around him. Okay, that's a perfectly valid story reason... but it rings SUPER hollow when the camera slowly pans on the girl who's only covering is her long hair over her chest. Like, they could still do that exact scene, but with the camera never actually being on her body and it would work, but it's clear the scene was drawn that way for a reason, to oggle a 10 year old anime girl.
Joke question? I could probably find multiple each season without looking too hard. Heck, nearly all Isekai have at least one character who views the protag as their "master" and often offer themselves sexually to him (though the 'joke' is that he'll never do it because he's a 'nice guy').
I know. There is literally only a single character in the entire series who is even young enough to fit the term and that's Eri. And she is not sexualized in the slightest at any point ever. In fact she is arguably the most wholesome character in the entire series.
MHA fans would riot in the streets if Horikoshi ever tried to do such a thing.
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Totally. If someone called Eri a loli, I'd throw a fit honestly
Interesting detail to take into account:
How do we know this person wasn't just bringing this fact up in general to show the discrepancy between cultures? It's not at all okay but they don't seem to be defending it. Haven't seen any other post from them in case they did before posting this.
Because #1: That fact is misleading as hell (no prefecture has an age of consent that low, and thus the federal law is pointless to even bring up)
#2: This was literally their only post after having their account for over a month. Taking #1 into consideration, they were trolling.