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Ashen, Announced as Coming to Steam and the Win10 Store, Now Exclusive to the Epic Store on PC *Update* Game Director Responds - Win10 Coming ASAP

Oct 26, 2017
4,692
PSN didn't match XBL when the PS3 came out, Nintendo Online does not match either service. I mean it's a little disengenuous to think everyone should be just as experienced or will put in the same amount of resources at first. Valve has had many years of making huge profits from its service throughout the years, other companies are not going to simply match that out of the gate.
Which is why it's a good idea to point out the shortcomings, so they can hopefully address them.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,145
PSN didn't match XBL when the PS3 came out, Nintendo Online does not match either service. I mean it's a little disengenuous to think everyone should be just as experienced or will put in the same amount of resources at first. Valve has had many years of making huge profits from its service throughout the years, other companies are not going to simply match that out of the gate.



And people were upset of these differences in term of service.
And you know what ? They're not even on the same platform !
Yet, people rightfully complained.

It's not disingenous, it's what competition should be. Not even trying to match but to SURPASS. Yet we have people telling us here "It's okay to be worse, give them time because in 2004 Steam was bad."
It's 2018 for everyone though, not for Valve only.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,940
And people were upset of these differences in term of service.
And you know what ? They're not even on the same platform !
Yet, people rightfully complained.

It's not disingenous, it's what competition should be. Not even trying to match but to SURPASS. Yet we have people telling us here "It's okay to be worse, give them time because in 2004 Steam was bad."
It's 2018 for everyone though, not for Valve only.
Which is why it's a good idea to point out the shortcomings, so they can hopefully address them.
Well it's like anything, how valuable is that content to you? We see it all the time of the console level, so of course we are now seeing it on the PC with fragmented storefronts. Difference is you don't have hundreds of dollars as a barrier, just who offers better service. So now it's up to you how much you want to play the games and what services you are willing to give up.
 
Oct 25, 2017
818
PSN didn't match XBL when the PS3 came out, Nintendo Online does not match either service. I mean it's a little disengenuous to think everyone should be just as experienced or will put in the same amount of resources at first. Valve has had many years of making huge profits from its service throughout the years, other companies are not going to simply match that out of the gate.
PSN didn't match XBL when the PS3 came out, but at the same time it was free, which made its shortcomings less important. Same goes for Nintendo until recently.

What does Epic got going on for their service to make up for it? A handful of game giveaways that other services also do and timed exclusivity on a handful of other games? That's shit I can get in much better services.
 
Oct 28, 2017
3,992
Belgium
This, as someone who is working on my own small UE4 project, the Epic Store option is extremely alluring, specially since the usual 5% Epic takes is included in the 12% if sold through their store.
What's wrong with giving your potential customers a choice where to buy your game?

Of course it makes sense for you to release your game on Epic's store as well, but f*ck store exclusivity deals on pc.
 

Derrick01

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,292
Well, guess what, this time someone else gave them more money so they went with their option. So, how do you come before them, again?
They'll find out like most others who take bribes at the expense of their customers. It won't turn out well for most of them.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,669
Canary Islands, Spain
I hope they smash steam

Steam rakes in incredible amounts of money for basically no improvements on their long languishing storefront

Epic is incredibly hungry and their new store already looks great
lmao
Universal controller support for all games and a compatibility layer for Windows games on Linux is "no improvements"? And user reviews, and workshop, and the market system, etc etc...
 

DR2K

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,680
PSN didn't match XBL when the PS3 came out, but at the same time it was free, which made its shortcomings less important. Same goes for Nintendo until recently.

What does Epic got going on for their service to make up for it? A handful of game giveaways that other services also do and timed exclusivity on a handful of other games? That's shit I can get in much better services.
What is it with P.C. gamers and their game launcher? It’s like being attached to a disc drive or something.
 

Derrick01

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,292
selling goods and labor for profit is...bribery?
If they were selling it to customers it'd be fine. But they reneged on the deals they had in place at the last moment and took a bribe from Epic at the expense of customers who were going to play it on Steam and the w10 store via gamepass, the latter which also had a play anywhere deal in place for YEARS. So yes they screwed over customers because of a bribe. That is literally what happened.
 
Jan 21, 2018
6,847
What was that deal, again? And what was the "expense" to customers?
Ashen was announced as a Play Anywhere title. With crossplay and crossbuy. And at E3 2018 it was announced as a Gamepass title. Hence, people expecting to play this game with Gamepass on launch. Only finding out at launch day that there was no Play Anywhere and the game was suddenly going to the Epic Store.

You really don't understand how that's annoying? Ashen was one of the games I was planning on playing with my subscription. It was one of the reasons why I've renewed my Gamepass.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,225
Either way the future of the Epic Store for indie games doesn't see bright to me. They'll endure the exact same hardship Steam did a few years ago.

If the store is succesful indie devs are going to complain about the opacity of Epic decision process regarding who gets on their platform. If it's not succesful then the indie devs who exclusively launched there just lost a lot of consumer goodwill and trust which will translate to lower sales since they clearly showed that they didn't care about where and how customers consumed their products.

It's going to be funny to see how it all shakes out.
 

benj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
305
But it...is still coming to Play Anywhere? So what's the problem?

If it had been out-and-out canceled for Play Anywhere, sure, I could see how that would be disappointing, although talking about it in terms of "bribery" and ethics would still be deeply misinformed. But you're complaining that other people get to play it before you. That is...not a real problem!
 
Jan 21, 2018
6,847
But it...is still coming to Play Anywhere? So what's the problem?

If it had been out-and-out canceled for Play Anywhere, sure, I could see how that would be disappointing, although talking about it in terms of "bribery" and ethics would still be deeply misinformed. But you're complaining that other people get to play it before you. That is...not a real problem!
We didn't have that information before, hence the thread.

And we also don't have an ETA. Could take months for all we know. I still paid for my subscription for december.
Look, the $10 isn't a problem for me, I'll get over it. It just doesn't feel right. It hurts my trust in Microsoft and Annapurna.
 

benj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
305
We didn't have that information before, hence the thread.

And we also don't have an ETA. Could take months for all we know. I still paid for my subscription for december.
Look, the $10 isn't a problem for me, I'll get over it. It just doesn't feel right. It hurts my trust in Microsoft and Annapurna.
But we do have that information now, at the time at which this conversation is actually occurring.
 

benj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
305
What's the second point? The money you paid for your subscription was for a service. It was not for Ashen. As far as I can tell, absolutely no one in this situation paid money for Ashen that was not immediately able to play it. Again, I can understand being disappointed that a game didn't come to a service at x time, but this game was surprise-launched—I don't understand how you can argue in good faith that you were not given something that you expected, let alone that the company has in any way reneged on an obligation (even an implicit one!) that they had to consumers.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,554
Devs come before your search function and the fact you’ll have to install another client.

You want more good games, original concepts, new ideas? This site is right to be obsessed with devs, because they are the ones making games - only natural. It’s funny how some “consumers” want devs to earn as little money as possible - they hate IAP, they hate preorders, and now they’r against a store offering a smaller cut? Insane.

Especially for smaller devs, gamedev is a really tough gig and the stores are not exactly fair. 30% cut on top of tax? Devs go where the money is, and Epic store is great news. More competition is good for devs, for players, for the industry.

I’m sorry you’ll have to install a whole new client on your PC, I know it’s painful but I hope you get through.
you ain't getting more original concepts and new ideas with a curated store as Epic wants it. It's no good for devs and it only benefits the ones that get through it. Pretty shitty.
 
Jan 21, 2018
6,847
What's the second point? The money you paid for your subscription was for a service. It was not for Ashen. As far as I can tell, absolutely no one in this situation paid money for Ashen that was not immediately able to play it. Again, I can understand being disappointed that a game didn't come to a service at x time, but this game was surprise-launched—I don't understand how you can argue in good faith that you were not given something that you expected, let alone that the company has in any way reneged on an obligation (even an implicit one!) that they had to consumers.
1. It was announced as a play anywhere game since at least 2017 (this was restated in september 2018)
2. It was announced as a Gamepass game on E3 2018
3. It was promised to be a 2018 game (hence my december subscription)

I've seen many people here and on Twitter saying they expected to play it with their subscription. Some even paid for a subscription for this game. I'm sure I've got no case against them because they haven't explicitly said ''COMING TO GAMEPASS AND PLAY ANYWHERE ON LAUNCH IN DECEMBER''

In my opinion I can say that I wasn't given something I expected. I also think Annapurna and Microsoft have neglected communicating this in a proper manner.
 

benj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
305
If you pay for a subscription for a game that does not have a release date and has not been announced as launching on that subscription service...maybe you should not be too hasty to blame others for betraying your extremely normal and well-founded expectations.
 
Jan 21, 2018
6,847
If you pay for a subscription for a game that does not have a release date and has not been announced as launching on that subscription service...maybe you should not be too hasty to blame others for betraying your extremely normal and well-founded expectations.
It was announced to be on Gamepass and it was announced to be Play Anywhere.

Looking back, I should've checked if they had said PLAY ANYWHERE AT LAUNCH.

The things you learn.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,792
China
If you pay for a subscription for a game that does not have a release date and has not been announced as launching on that subscription service...maybe you should not be too hasty to blame others for betraying your extremely normal and well-founded expectations.
The developer themselves said it will be on Gamepass, with the latest information reinforcing it just 3 months ago.
 
Jul 25, 2018
2,061
I read the OP, it all looks fine. Then I see the responses about it being "disgusting". Ummm, what? As the dev says, it's a timed exclusive for a store, and it's available on every platform they promised. If you really must have it on a specific storefront, just wait. Epic has been very supportive of them since day one, and then Epic offered a better financial deal and more promotion for their game. They have every right to choose what they think is best for their game. It's funny to see all the pro-competition people suddenly against competition. If Steam wanted to compete they could guarantee significant promotion for the game in their Store, and they could offer a less gouging royalty rate, but they don't.
 
Nov 6, 2017
409
I read the OP, it all looks fine. Then I see the responses about it being "disgusting". Ummm, what? As the dev says, it's a timed exclusive for a store, and it's available on every platform they promised. If you really must have it on a specific storefront, just wait. Epic has been very supportive of them since day one, and then Epic offered a better financial deal and more promotion for their game. They have every right to choose what they think is best for their game. It's funny to see all the pro-competition people suddenly against competition. If Steam wanted to compete they could guarantee significant promotion for the game in their Store, and they could offer a less gouging royalty rate, but they don't.
Competition is meant to be good for the consumer. This only seems good for a dev (depending on how much of a money hat that they capitulated to) and digital store owning publisher hoping to bring more people to their significantly lacking store. I can't see a bright side for consumers, can you enlighten me?
 

benj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
305
Rofl. Do they have to say for every aspect of a game if its coming for launch now?

Sorry for assuming something that had been announced was included.
A product being available through a given market/context is not something being "included." It is deeply deluded to think of a good's availability in a given market as being comparable to it shipping sans features that people thought would be included.
 
Jul 25, 2018
2,061
Competition is meant to be good for the consumer. This only seems good for a dev (depending on how much of a money hat that they capitulated to) and digital store owning publisher hoping to bring more people to their significantly lacking store. I can't see a bright side for consumers, can you enlighten me?
More promotion for the game means more people will hear about it. For instance, this topic is the first time I had heard of this game. More money going to the dev means more future investment in games and dlc. Again, if Steam wants to compete for game promotion and royalties, they absolutely can. Why do they get a free pass for not competing? Most importantly, anyone who wanted this on PC can still get it on PC easily.
 

Durante

Dark Souls Man
Member
Oct 24, 2017
4,309
Well it's like anything, how valuable is that content to you?
Exactly.

For me it's like a multiplier. I have a base level of interest in some game, and then that is affected by external aspects. If it's on Steam or GoG, which are feature-rich, easily accessible, and where I have a reasonable level of trust in the longevity of my purchses, the multiplier is 1. If it's exclusive to something like Origin or the Epic store the multiplier is e.g. 0.6, and the game will have a harder time competing for my attention and money. (And if it's UWP or console exclusive, which harshly reduces the utility of my purchase, it's lower still)
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,940
Exactly.

For me it's like a multiplier. I have a base level of interest in some game, and then that is affected by external aspects. If it's on Steam or GoG, which are feature-rich, easily accessible, and where I have a reasonable level of trust in the longevity of my purchses, the multiplier is 1. If it's exclusive to something like Origin or the Epic store the multiplier is e.g. 0.6, and the game will have a harder time competing for my attention and money. (And if it's UWP or console exclusive, which harshly reduces the utility of my purchase, it's lower still)
That's perfectly reasonable, but again I am not the least bit surprised other storefronts think they have to do aggressive maneuvers to gain more attention to the behemoth that is Steam. Hopefully this is just a timed period. It is also a great way for a game developer like the one making Ashen to gain some attention with the launch of a new store compared to Steam that has literally thousands of titles which can easily be overlooked.
 
Jul 25, 2018
2,061
For me it's like a multiplier. I have a base level of interest in some game, and then that is affected by external aspects. If it's on Steam or GoG, which are feature-rich, easily accessible, and where I have a reasonable level of trust in the longevity of my purchses, the multiplier is 1. If it's exclusive to something like Origin or the Epic store the multiplier is e.g. 0.6, and the game will have a harder time competing for my attention and money. (And if it's UWP or console exclusive, which harshly reduces the utility of my purchase, it's lower still)
That's competition at work. If the Epic Store was 100% as feature complete as Steam right now, and you had absolute faith in its longevity, it would still be nearly impossible to lure people away from Steam without exclusives because Steam devotees would cite familiarity, friends, achievements history, etc. as reasons not to use the alternative. Once again, if Steam wanted to compete, they could offer the game more promotion and a better royalty, but Steam doesn't want to compete and everyone gives them a free pass for that.