Ashen, Announced as Coming to Steam and the Win10 Store, Now Exclusive to the Epic Store on PC *Update* Game Director Responds - Win10 Coming ASAP

Oct 25, 2017
3,665
Valve has 125 million users and haven’t had to innovate or invest in content in years. Those other platforms are irrelevant to them. They don’t need all the games.

Fact that they sit on Half Life is all the evidence needed. That proves beyond a reasonable doubt they have felt no pressure.

"Valve has 125 million users and haven’t had to innovate or invest in content in years. Those other platforms are irrelevant to them. They don’t need all the games."

Yeah, they felt no need to innovate with SteamVR, a platform agnostic VR platform (so no exclusive bullshit). No need to improve compatibility by releasing Steam Proton, which allows people to play their Windows games on Linux. They felt no need to invest into contents while buying Campo Santo to release more games (and it's not removed from other platforms such as XB1/PS4/Switch). They felt no need to improve their storefront either.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,665
My fucking post. I’m going to bed now. I’ll be happy to answer replies during the weekend.

My point is this move is shitty by Epic. But I feel bad for consumers. Not Valve or Microsoft. Valve needs a kick in the ass.


No, you're just annoyed because it's about Windows Store. Because you're just one of these people who never played on PC and just pop in these Windows Store thread to tell us how good it is. You're just so transparent about it it's not even funny and the only reason you're concerned now is because Windows Store is concerned.

Windows Store is in a fuckin sorry state and litterally broken, but you think Valve/Steam is the one who needs a kick in the ass. GTFO with that transparent platform warring bullshit.
 
Oct 29, 2017
1,279
I’ll go where the games and sales are. I have very, very limited use or desire for most steam features, especially community features, since it’s a dumpster fire. Discord and Reddit for specific game communities suit my needs 100%.

Just give me the games with a lightweight client, run sales, and loop in websites like GMG so they can sell keys and offer deals too.



Steam forums and reviews are largely an cesspool that make gamers look like shit, make Valve look like shit for letting things run so unchecked most of the time, and contribute to the toxicity of gaming culture.

So, Epic keeping that out of the experience sounds like a real positive to me. Though, I would like to see user reviews with actual curation.
I feel much the same. I don't use Steam features, and I hate how bloated it is and full of rotten shit like user reviews and forums that are a victim of Valve's awful culture and policies. Get the standard stuff to launch and buy games and I'm good. Get regional pricing for people around the world and we're all good.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,523
I feel much the same. I don't use Steam features, and I hate how bloated it is and full of rotten shit like user reviews and forums that are a victim of Valve's awful culture and policies. Get the standard stuff to launch and buy games and I'm good. Get regional pricing for people around the world and we're all good.
You dont use those feature so thus they are bad and dont count in Steams Favor?

But Epic's lack of the GOOD features doesn't account against Epic?
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,523
Yes. Hello I am a person with opinions and preferences who gets to make purchasing decisions for myself.
You can buy whatever you want, you dont get to declare an entire feature set as useless and this mean somehow Epic is better then Steam.

Opinions can be factually incorrect.
 
Oct 29, 2017
1,279
You can buy whatever you want, you dont get to declare an entire feature set as useless and this mean somehow Epic is better then Steam.

Opinions can be factually incorrect.
No they cannot by definition. You're having trouble dealing with someone else having an opinion that is different than your own. It has nothing to do with facts. I made no factual errors in my statement.
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,124
No, you're just annoyed because it's about Windows Store. Because you're just one of these people who never played on PC and just pop in these Windows Store thread to tell us how good it is. You're just so transparent about it it's not even funny and the only reason you're concerned now is because Windows Store is concerned.

Windows Store is in a fuckin sorry state and litterally broken, but you think Valve/Steam is the one who needs a kick in the ass. GTFO with that transparent platform warring bullshit.
You’re hearing things. What the fuck did I say about the Windows Store here? I feel bad for gamers who bought Game Pass to play a game right before it got pulled. Hopefully Microsoft refunds them.

I also said that if other stores decide to have exclusive content to compete with Steam, so be it. This was just a bad way to do it.

Last two times I went with high end gaming rigs was for Half Life 1 and 2. I’m not a Valve hater. I’m telling you the fact that they would sit on a franchise like that shows you they don’t feel the need to invest heavily in content. If competition forces them to invest in more content, that would be good.
 
Nov 26, 2017
458
Gunna finish it as fast as i can before they rip it off gamepass randomly with no warning, really shitty thing to do to pc players that had thought it'd be play anywhere or on Steam.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,593
You’re hearing things. What the fuck did I say about the Windows Store here? I feel bad for gamers who bought Game Pass to play a game right before it got pulled. Hopefully Microsoft refunds them.

I also said that if other stores decide to have exclusive content to compete with Steam, so be it. This was just a bad way to do it.

Last two times I went with high end gaming rigs was for Half Life 1 and 2. I’m not a Valve hater. I’m telling you the fact that they would sit on a franchise like that shows you they don’t feel the need to invest heavily in content. If competition forces them to invest in more content, that would be good.
It's undoubtedly a shitty move, but I don't think anyone was buying game pass for a game that didn't have a release date yet
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,665
You’re hearing things. What the fuck did I say about the Windows Store here? I feel bad for gamers who bought Game Pass to play a game right before it got pulled. Hopefully Microsoft refunds them.

I also said that if other stores decide to have exclusive content to compete with Steam, so be it. This was just a bad way to do it.

Last two times I went with high end gaming rigs was for Half Life 1 and 2. I’m not a Valve hater. I’m telling you the fact that they would sit on a franchise like that shows you they don’t feel the need to invest heavily in content. If competition forces them to invest in more content, that would be good.


You're just further proving my point. You only feel this is a bad move because Windows Store is impacted.
As I said, you don't even play on PC, you just come to these threads because Windows Store (aka Microsoft) is involved.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,662
China
Last two times I went with high end gaming rigs was for Half Life 1 and 2. I’m not a Valve hater. I’m telling you the fact that they would sit on a franchise like that shows you they don’t feel the need to invest heavily in content. If competition forces them to invest in more content, that would be good.
So it kinda sounds like you are not gaming on PC, dont actually know much about Steam, but trying to talk about PC-Gaming.
 
Jun 7, 2018
510
No they cannot by definition. You're having trouble dealing with someone else having an opinion that is different than your own. It has nothing to do with facts. I made no factual errors in my statement.
But you did.

Facts, Steam has more features that makes it more appealing to a lot more people than Epic, such as workshops, community guides, regional pricing.

Your opinion is that none of those matter, which is factually incorrect, because then how else are we going to compare two storefronts if not on the features that they have?
 
Oct 25, 2017
163
How nice of you in your probably first world country to dismiss regional pricing.
People in Brazil have to pay double, people aren't over emphasizing, you're just downplaying.
Thanks for the regional pricing bit, I really appreciate it.
Thanks to all three of you for responding. Perhaps I am downplaying the role for regional pricing and yes I live in the US and my point-of-view is skewed. Let me ask you this. Were you planning on purchasing any of these games before they became Epic-Store-exclusive?

With that said, there have been at least three similarly themed threads with numerous indignant posts about how unbelievably awful this is. Other than regional pricing (which is clearly of some importance to some) and which Epic can hopefully address rather quickly if they wanted to, I still don't see any compelling reasoning for why this is so bad. Muad'dib, I saw your additional reasoning and I agree that on principle, one could be upset about the walled-garden approach. I would counter that given your PC can play the game regardless of storefront, the "wall" doesn't really affect you. If it's principle that's keeping you from playing, then so be it, but it's not the "wall".
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,342
Not happy with Epic about this. This isn't competition, it's actually fiercely anti-competitive.
Yep, but not only that - it literally offers me no benefits, forcing me to a barebones unknown reliability, and featureless ecosystem. When anyone does this, they guarantee I ignore the game in favour of the ridiculous amount of other amazing games on offer at better services. And over time even if this is put on other stores, the moments often gone and people are just interested in other things. I know a lot of PC gamers in particular feel this way and act similarly, and so far Epic offer me nothing.

Both their own and the devs loss, as with every time this happens
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,662
China
Thanks to all three of you for responding. Perhaps I am downplaying the role for regional pricing and yes I live in the US and my point-of-view is skewed. Let me ask you this. Were you planning on purchasing any of these games before they became Epic-Store-exclusive?

With that said, there have been at least three similarly themed threads with numerous indignant posts about how unbelievably awful this is. Other than regional pricing (which is clearly of some importance to some) and which Epic can hopefully address rather quickly if they wanted to, I still don't see any compelling reasoning for why this is so bad. Muad'dib, I saw your additional reasoning and I agree that on principle, one could be upset about the walled-garden approach. I would counter that given your PC can play the game regardless of storefront, the "wall" doesn't really affect you. If it's principle that's keeping you from playing, then so be it, but it's not the "wall".
I can tell you that I was planning on buying them with regional pricing and now I wont, since they are double or triple as expensive as before.

Also its bad because e.g. Chinese cant even buy these games anymore, since the Epic Store isnt available for China, while Steam is. Also its bad, because you do not know how sucessful it is. I have games on Steam I installed 14 years ago.
Also its not just abou the walled garden approach, but about a featureset. If I would have bought Ashen on Steam, I could easily use BPM and play it on my TV. I could open the Steam Overlay with a controller click and open a guide if the game has collectibles. If I want I could play it in a VR environment or just stream the game.
I cant do any of that with Epics Launcher.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,523
I hope this doesn’t make MS get defensive with Play Anywhere titles and forced them on Window Store. They really got the rug pulled from under them.
 
Dec 3, 2017
601
If they were using epic as an option no one would have a problem with that and if you wanted to buy the game there to give them a bigger portion of your money then you could. But now choice has been ripped away. They took a bribe from epic to screw consumers all for an unknown (but probably relatively short) exclusivity window. They deserve any failure heading their way.
I would like to have the option to buy any newly released PC game in the Microsoft Store. Instead, most developers choose to release exclusively on Steam. Which is equally shitty as what's happening with Ashen right now, but strangely I've never seen anyone complaining about that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
195
Mar del Plata
Thanks to all three of you for responding. Perhaps I am downplaying the role for regional pricing and yes I live in the US and my point-of-view is skewed. Let me ask you this. Were you planning on purchasing any of these games before they became Epic-Store-exclusive?

With that said, there have been at least three similarly themed threads with numerous indignant posts about how unbelievably awful this is. Other than regional pricing (which is clearly of some importance to some) and which Epic can hopefully address rather quickly if they wanted to, I still don't see any compelling reasoning for why this is so bad. Muad'dib, I saw your additional reasoning and I agree that on principle, one could be upset about the walled-garden approach. I would counter that given your PC can play the game regardless of storefront, the "wall" doesn't really affect you. If it's principle that's keeping you from playing, then so be it, but it's not the "wall".
As a matter of fact, I was going to buy Ashen on Steam. Annapurna has a pretty good track record for regional pricing so I "knew" that I would be able to afford it. I would have bought Supergiant's game as well, since I loved their earlier releases (though that one didn't exist in my mind before today, since it was just announced at TGA).
And regarding Epic's ideas about regional pricing, I asked Galyonkin on Twitter about it, and he basically said "in the future" they'd add more currencies (a very nebulous future). He also claimed that there's support for regional adjustments of prices right now, when friends who live in countries that are "supported" told me otherwise.
So in my situation (and the situation of many other PC gamers, I'm sure) it's not a "fake wall" that's preventing me from playing those games. It's a very real wall made of dollars I don't have.
And once again, thanks for downplaying the role of regional pricing when you clearly don't know anything about it. It's not the first time I'd seen this kind of thing, but you were very open about your lack of caring about regions that are not the US.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,068
Some of you guys really throw around the “fuck you forever” so easily. This is why you claim to write off a whole storefront, that’s paying more to it’s devs?
Itch.io gives even more to Devs and they don't need to rely on garbage moves like this. They have shown they have no interest in actually competing and will just be throwing Tencent branded money bags around instead of making a good client. Going out of their way to buy out exclusivity of already announced games at the last second is some scummy fucking shit and I won't put one further dollar in their ecosystem.
 
Oct 25, 2017
163
So, I have to prove that a storefront paying to remove a product from other stores to sell it exclusively on their for a higher price, less fonctions, so resulting in an inferior product, is anti-consumer ?

"Gamestop just paid exclusivity rights to sell the PS4 on Amazon. It can't be sold anymore at Best Buy, Walmart and Amazon. Price is now 499 instead of 399 dollars. How's that anti-consumer ? You just need to litterally browse a different website !"
I wasn't aware that the prices of the games are more expensive on the EPIC store than they would be on Steam or Windows 10 store. Is that true? If that's the case, I stand corrected.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,665
I wasn't aware that the prices of the games are more expensive on the EPIC store than they would be on Steam or Windows 10 store. Is that true? If that's the case, I stand corrected.

They are for two reasons:
- No regional pricing automatically makes them more expensive in some region
- No 3rd party retailers such as GMG, Voidu, Gamesplanet (because the cut is now 12% which means they cant take a discount on their cut) means we cant get them cheaper
 
Oct 25, 2017
163
As a matter of fact, I was going to buy Ashen on Steam. Annapurna has a pretty good track record for regional pricing so I "knew" that I would be able to afford it. I would have bought Supergiant's game as well, since I loved their earlier releases (though that one didn't exist in my mind before today, since it was just announced at TGA).
And regarding Epic's ideas about regional pricing, I asked Galyonkin on Twitter about it, and he basically said "in the future" they'd add more currencies (a very nebulous future). He also claimed that there's support for regional adjustments of prices right now, when friends who live in countries that are "supported" told me otherwise.
So in my situation (and the situation of many other PC gamers, I'm sure) it's not a "fake wall" that's preventing me from playing those games. It's a very real wall made of dollars I don't have.
And once again, thanks for downplaying the role of regional pricing when you clearly don't know anything about it. It's not the first time I'd seen this kind of thing, but you were very open about your lack of caring about regions that are not the US.
Please don't try to goad me with all of the false "thank you's". I can tell that regional pricing is a very strong issue for you. I apologize for downplaying it. Hopefully, as you alluded to, Epic will be able to implement it for you and others that are affected. For me (living in the US) this is obviously not as relevant, and thus I don't personally have any frank issues with Epic-store-exclusivity. Perhaps annoying as I will lose some Steam-centric functionality, but I personally am more interested in the game itself than the bells and whistles provided by the game launcher.
 
Oct 25, 2017
163
They are for two reasons:
- No regional pricing automatically makes them more expensive in some region
- No 3rd party retailers such as GMG, Voidu, Gamesplanet (because the cut is now 12% which means they cant take a discount on their cut) means we cant get them cheaper
Ah. I see. But there is no across-the-board sentiment of "This game would have cost X on Steam, but will cost X+10% on Epic". Is that right?
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,665
Ah. I see. But there is no across-the-board sentiment of "This game would have cost X on Steam, but will cost X+10% on Epic". Is that right?

Well, for that, the game should've been released elsewhere. :)
And how do you think stores usually compete ?
"Black Friday Sales:
Walmart making PS4+RDR2 bundle for 199 bucks
BestBuy having a PS4+ Spiderman + BlackOps 4 + controller for 229 bucks
Amazon having a PS4 + RDR2 + 1 year of PS+ for 210 bucks"
 
Oct 25, 2017
195
Mar del Plata
Please don't try to goad me with all of the false "thank you's". I can tell that regional pricing is a very strong issue for you. I apologize for downplaying it. Hopefully, as you alluded to, Epic will be able to implement it for you and others that are affected. For me (living in the US) this is obviously not as relevant, and thus I don't personally have any frank issues with Epic-store-exclusivity. Perhaps annoying as I will lose some Steam-centric functionality, but I personally am more interested in the game itself than the bells and whistles provided by the game launcher.
I'm not "trying to goad you". You posted that we were making it look like regional pricing is a bigger issue than it is. Turns out, you are not affected by that, so that's why you thought it didn't matter. I (and many other people who buy games on PC) am affected by that.
Also, I'm not the one who asked if I truly intended to buy the games that are now Epic Store exclusives, so I'd say I wasn't the one "trying to goad" someone.
 
Oct 25, 2017
163
I'm not "trying to goad you". You posted that we were making it look like regional pricing is a bigger issue than it is. Turns out, you are not affected by that, so that's why you thought it didn't matter. I (and many other people who buy games on PC) am affected by that.
Also, I'm not the one who asked if I truly intended to buy the games that are now Epic Store exclusives, so I'd say I wasn't the one "trying to goad" someone.
Kurt, have a good night. Thanks for chatting.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,029
Please don't try to goad me with all of the false "thank you's". I can tell that regional pricing is a very strong issue for you. I apologize for downplaying it. Hopefully, as you alluded to, Epic will be able to implement it for you and others that are affected. For me (living in the US) this is obviously not as relevant, and thus I don't personally have any frank issues with Epic-store-exclusivity. Perhaps annoying as I will lose some Steam-centric functionality, but I personally am more interested in the game itself than the bells and whistles provided by the game launcher.
"games and whistles"

A store that has no search function at launch.

The store is trying to compete in functions with Steam at launch, not with Steam right now. Heck, Origin launched in a better state as a store.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,029
Unless you are from a poorer region, then it is (although of course we can't compare with the same games, since they are exclusives now).
Your fault for not moving to a civilized country.

We should leave Russia and other developing markets to rot and go back to piracy again.
 
Oct 25, 2017
163
"games and whistles"

A store that has no search function at launch.

The store is trying to compete in functions with Steam at launch, not with Steam right now. Heck, Origin launched in a better state as a store.
For me the game is paramount compared to the store I purchased it from, because I am paying to play the game, not to play the game launcher. I read about a game I might like -- almost all of my gaming news comes from Era. If it's exclusive to Steam, I buy it on Steam. If it's exclusive to Epic, I buy it on Epic. My PC doesn't care where the game came from.

For others, as I've learned tonight, regional pricing is a significant deal as can be launcher/storefront functionality. I can personally see how the first can be quite important to those most affected. The latter doesn't hold much weight for me as it doesn't affect one's ability to play the game as the developer intended.
 
Oct 27, 2017
665
the 88/12 revenue split is literally an implicit “money hat” how is everyone this angry at it all of a sudden

like if i’m a dev and there’s a lower revenue split on other platforms, i don’t need epic to cut me a fucking check to incentivize exclusivity
 
Oct 29, 2017
409
I like it when we have the choice of the platform we want to play on, if you want the developers to have a bigger cut sure go buy it on Epic's store, but with creating bullshit exclusives like that (when the game was announced on other platforms before, although it doesn't matter too much for me, I don't like store exclusives in general) you are kicking your player-base out of their preferred ecosystem that are actually much richer than what Epic is providing at this moment.

The game being removed out of steam deprives us of features like Steam Big Picture mode, proton support (and cross-buy for the windows store though I still hate the UWP).

Of course if they didn't do that less people would go buy the game on Epic's launcher but still it ain't very good for the consumer.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,484
Valve has 125 million users and haven’t had to innovate or invest in content in years. Those other platforms are irrelevant to them. They don’t need all the games.

Fact that they sit on Half Life is all the evidence needed. That proves beyond a reasonable doubt they have felt no pressure.
That they don't innovate or invest is bullshit.
 
Oct 27, 2017
145
For me the game is paramount compared to the store I purchased it from, because I am paying to play the game, not to play the game launcher. I read about a game I might like -- almost all of my gaming news comes from Era. If it's exclusive to Steam, I buy it on Steam. If it's exclusive to Epic, I buy it on Epic. My PC doesn't care where the game came from.

For others, as I've learned tonight, regional pricing is a significant deal as can be launcher/storefront functionality. I can personally see how the first can be quite important to those most affected. The latter doesn't hold much weight for me as it doesn't affect one's ability to play the game as the developer intended.
Remember us, the few also who want to play on Linux to all those amazing games not getting native ports, with 0 cost for the devs...

Also, Steam is the only one with a client for Linux, so it's the whole platform + games.
 
Oct 25, 2017
163
Remember us, the few also who want to play on Linux to all those amazing games not getting native ports, with 0 cost for the devs...

Also, Steam is the only one with a client for Linux, so it's the whole platform + games.
You make a good point. As you stated, you make up but "a [relative] few", but your point is nonetheless relevant.
 
Oct 27, 2017
145
Keep in mind that, since Proton adds a compatibility layer it also means that if, at some point Dx9 for example gets deprecated on Windows, you will still be able to play all those games on Linux (And maybe Windows with a Proton port since it's open source). It's like having an emulator for PC games, which I believe it's amazing since it will let us play really old games without devs requiring to update them.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,883
This is just mean spirited by Epic.

Play Anywhere is like one of MS best ideas and removing that feature from a game as it launches just to put it on your PC store is frankly insulting.

It won't make me want to visit the Epic Store any time soon
 

Eorl

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,315
Australia
HIlarious seeing defense for a company when it favours them despite it stripping away choice. The idea with competition isn't exclusives, it is the ability to actually choose where I can play my games based on multiple factors like pricing, UI, system usage, dev support etc etc. Why the fuck should Epic even be excused for this behaviour? Oh right, 88% dev revenue!

Granted that is great, but that should be a REASON why people go to use the Epic store rather than "oh I have to because it isn't anywhere else." The fuck is with this sheep attitude.
 
Oct 27, 2017
145
Now... I would love to get some of these games Day1 if they release on Steam, but at the same time I feel like I should not buy at full price if they decide to delay the launch just because they went the exclusivity road...