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oracledragon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,285
I'm really fed up with this game and it's frustrating that a single unclear mechanic is breaking it all for me.

I'm doing this quest for the main big dude that is taking me deep into this cave system. Seat of the Matriarch. I think it's the second dungeon, I already did the Gefn one. Jokell has been following me but sometimes, without any logic or reason....he disappears. Or he just stops following me. This happened far into the cave/ruin right as I am standing in front of a long path with big enemies flanked on all sides. He just would not come up the stairs regardless of what I did. So I tried to fight the enemies...but the combination is really brutal and I'm getting killed. I decided to make a break for it and see if I can get through them. I manage to do that....but then suddenly Jokell appears in front of me and causes all the enemies to focus on us, getting me ganged up and killing me.

I don't understand this mechanic. This has happened a bunch during this game so far. The companions just disappear without any reason that I can find. Eila did it when I was doing her set of missions and I had to fight the quest enemy alone. Is it just broken? Because if it is, I don't think I can play this game in it's current state. It's clearly balanced for two players, but if I can't trust that my AI companion is going to not suddenly break or disappear how am I supposed to be able to brave this extremely long and difficult quest without dying? It's really frustrating. I REALLY liked what I was playing up until this point but having to constantly die and respawn because the game is inconsistent is making me put it down.

Can someone please explain this? Or point something out that I'm missing?

I also have no idea how to do multiplayer, how to summon someone. Supposedly I need to talk to a town NPC? But none of them seem to trigger it.


Upon reading this thread it would seem this is a very hard area. I think it might be worth to do more other stuff before trying it again. Or at least wait until the PC multiplayer is fixed.

This has happened to me, I *think* it happens when your npc is replaced with a human player, or if that human player is replaced with another human player. I didn't do extensive testing but try the same areas with multiplayer turned off.

Also, it seems like when you get joined up with another human, you can get respawns? Or maybe it is more that the enemies only remain dead if they were already dead for both players when the session begins?
 
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Dancrane212

Dancrane212

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,962
One advantage I find to having turned AI off is things seem to be more consistent. No more AI blinking in and out between real players.
 

Catvoca

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,182
Wait until you
Get through Prophets Rise and to the cliff overlooking the palace, clouds, and mountains.
Give it a couple of minutes to soak in with the music.
I just got to this moment and my jaw hit the floor. It's stunning.

Any idea how much game is left from here? I assume this is one of the final areas?
 

dosh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,260
Haven't seen a parry, haven't seen a backstab.
Pity. Not necessary in the end, but that would have added something to combat.

One advantage I find to having turned AI off is things seem to be more consistent. No more AI blinking in and out between real players.
With the added bonus of making fights more interesting. During my first hour with the game, the IA companion didn't even leave me enough time to learn the enemies patterns properly.
 
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Dancrane212

Dancrane212

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,962
With the added bonus of making fights more interesting. During my first hour with the game, the IA companion didn't even leave me enough time to learn the enemies patterns properly.

Absolutely. Having to do some encounters solo is helpful for picking up timings and getting decent at combat.
 

Deleted member 15227

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,819
As far as I'm aware the game never explicitly told me to do this, but
throw some spears at the glowing red statue guys. You can warp to them. Might have to kill a boss or something before you can do it? Not sure.

Thanks mate. You have to defeat:

Amiren before the relevant side quest(s) open up which allow you to shadow travel using the spears as you described.
 

Deleted member 15227

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,819
I'm really fed up with this game and it's frustrating that a single unclear mechanic is breaking it all for me.

Upon reading this thread it would seem this is a very hard area. I think it might be worth to do more other stuff before trying it again. Or at least wait until the PC multiplayer is fixed.

The Seat of the Matriarch dungeon is meant to be a tough quest. It took me several goes before I could confidently get through it and even then I was extremely cautious. The dungeon goes down really deep and I wish there was a fast travel travel point at the end of it (though I understand why it's not possible given how far down the dungeon actually goes).
 

II JumPeR I

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,770
Germany
So how i can reach the area gor jokels last mission?

And man sometimes the difficulty spikes are annoying :/ The second big dungeon. At least i had luck and a random player appeared near the end and we defeated the big boss together.
 

Lausebub

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,151
It is really hard to tell, if the weapons you pick up are good or not, since you have to compare them with your upgraded weapons.

How did you people who already played through it go about it? Right now it doesn't seem worth to upgrade new weapons, since I already put so much resources in the old stuff.
 

sabrina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,174
newport beach, CA
So how i can reach the area gor jokels last mission?

And man sometimes the difficulty spikes are annoying :/ The second big dungeon. At least i had luck and a random player appeared near the end and we defeated the big boss together.
If side missions are ahead of where you can reach, you don't have to worry about completing them first. The only missions you can always definitely do are the main journeys.
 

oracledragon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,285
It is really hard to tell, if the weapons you pick up are good or not, since you have to compare them with your upgraded weapons.

How did you people who already played through it go about it? Right now it doesn't seem worth to upgrade new weapons, since I already put so much resources in the old stuff.

Font sweat it; I used the spiked club which I found in maybe the second area all the way to (what I assume) is the last area of the game. I changed weapons to one I found in that late zone and it is better, but not that much. Plus you get enough mats to upgrade 2 to 3 weapons (maybe more, I'm not done yet).
 

dosh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,260
First there were the undead dogs in Dark Souls, then the undead dogs in Dark Souls 2, and after that, the undead dogs in Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3. Now, there are the glowing undead dogs in Ashen. I've got a bad, bad thing going with dogs in this type of games, I swear.

How do you handle these? I can smash through a group of four big guys with hammers without getting hit and tear down ancient deities twice my size, but I'm getting murdered by pups.
 

sabrina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,174
newport beach, CA
First there were the undead dogs in Dark Souls, then the undead dogs in Dark Souls 2, and after that, the undead dogs in Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3. Now, there are the glowing undead dogs in Ashen. I've got a bad, bad thing going with dogs in this type of games, I swear.

How do you handle these? I can smash through a group of four big guys with hammers without getting hit and tear down ancient deities twice my size, but I'm getting murdered by pups.
Get a 2-handed ax with a wide sweep for its light attack. Only thing I've found for decent crowd control.
 

ThatOneGuy

Member
Dec 3, 2018
1,207
Question for those of you who are playing the game currently, how much content would you say there is? Do you feel you've already gotten your moneys worth or does it feel a bit shallow? Just curious as I've been interested in picking it up myself.
 
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Dancrane212

Dancrane212

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,962
First there were the undead dogs in Dark Souls, then the undead dogs in Dark Souls 2, and after that, the undead dogs in Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3. Now, there are the glowing undead dogs in Ashen. I've got a bad, bad thing going with dogs in this type of games, I swear.

How do you handle these? I can smash through a group of four big guys with hammers without getting hit and tear down ancient deities twice my size, but I'm getting murdered by pups.

If you're lucky you can, at least for the base "dogs", get them to hit each other and then watch them fight amongst themselves.
 

sabrina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,174
newport beach, CA
I'm interested in buying it , but it seems to be too short.
Question for those of you who are playing the game currently, how much content would you say there is? Do you feel you've already gotten your moneys worth or does it feel a bit shallow? Just curious as I've been interested in picking it up myself.
It's not as long as Dark Souls, but a lot of the content feels more meaningful to me. Like spending three hours in Journey as opposed to, say, three hours in Fortnite.

I'm seeing 15-20 hours being thrown around. I really like smelling the roses so it'll probably be a little north of 20 hours for me, and I'm enjoying every moment of it.
 

Baphomet

Member
Dec 8, 2018
16,997
It's not as long as Dark Souls, but a lot of the content feels more meaningful to me. Like spending three hours in Journey as opposed to, say, three hours in Fortnite.

I'm seeing 15-20 hours being thrown around. I really like smelling the roses so it'll probably be a little north of 20 hours for me, and I'm enjoying every moment of it.

In that case , that seems pretty good , I;ve seen videos and it does look like a chill game with a nice soundtrack.
 

Theorry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
61,057
Is it possible to do backflips at maybe a later stage? I remember the dev talking about that as part of a moveset.
 

dosh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,260
Get a 2-handed ax with a wide sweep for its light attack. Only thing I've found for decent crowd control.
You know, I didn't even try that because I thought my two-handed axe would be too slow against the damn things, but now you mention it, that's probably a good way to handle them.

If you're lucky you can, at least for the base "dogs", get them to hit each other and then watch them fight amongst themselves.
I didn't know they could attack each other.
I've been having fun luring them to the glowing exploding sticks bearers who lurk in the area and watching everybody go boom.
 

ThatOneGuy

Member
Dec 3, 2018
1,207
It's not as long as Dark Souls, but a lot of the content feels more meaningful to me. Like spending three hours in Journey as opposed to, say, three hours in Fortnite.

I'm seeing 15-20 hours being thrown around. I really like smelling the roses so it'll probably be a little north of 20 hours for me, and I'm enjoying every moment of it.
That sounds just fine to me. There are plenty of massive open world 60+ hour long games out there, so something a little smaller in scope works for me.
 

Dervius

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,918
UK
Question for those of you who are playing the game currently, how much content would you say there is? Do you feel you've already gotten your moneys worth or does it feel a bit shallow? Just curious as I've been interested in picking it up myself.

20 odd hours seems more than reasonable for the style. It's also on Gamepass so for me it has been exceptional value.

On a side note, Touma and Souma are fun...
 

belairjeff

J->E Localization
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,120
This game really starts opening up after the second boss. I'm having a blast.
 

benj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,833
oh, christ, you have to go to the workbench and select it there

boy that is not made clear
 
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Dancrane212

Dancrane212

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,962
peF6OPP.png


nG9VES7.png

Such an awesome moment.
 

Plumpman

Member
Jan 24, 2018
1,022
If I buy this on Xbox, will it automatically become a Play Anywhere when that's released? Is that how it usually works?

Impressions making want to jump in now.
 

GoaThief

Member
Oct 25, 2017
309
out that I'm missing?

I also have no idea how to do multiplayer

It sounds exactly like you have been playing multiplayer (hence the random/disobedient/dying/vanishing "NPC" companion). It's normally great but I've just turned off for the night after my companion decided not to work with me deep into Matriarch's long dungeon of hell. I think with such a long dungeon if you get someone who doesn't have the same goals as you it's going to be a problem, unlike the rest of the game where the phase out after a while isn't an issue as they'll be replaced with someone who wants to cooperate or more closely mirrors your own plans.

I'm going to try it with an AI companion tomorrow by disabling multiplayer in the settings. Have a feeling it will work out great just for this one specific area but too tired to confirm now. Other option is private multiplayer with someone but I don't know anyone on Xbox who is around this point. Hope that helps and good luck!
 

Tohsaka

Member
Nov 17, 2017
6,796
Is there an in-game map? I know most Souls-likes don't have them, just curious if this one does or not.
 

GoaThief

Member
Oct 25, 2017
309
Is there an in-game map? I know most Souls-likes don't have them, just curious if this one does or not.
Yes there is. It is pretty basic and doesn't cover everything but pretty useful all the same. Favourite use is to locate/prioritise side quests and the like, but the game encourages exploration naturally so you don't find yourself constantly checking it or anything like that.
 

oracledragon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,285
Is there an in-game map? I know most Souls-likes don't have them, just curious if this one does or not.

Yes, I find I rely on it quite a bit because the waypoint indicator on the HUD isn't that useful. The map shows where to go for each quest. It doesn't take away all challange though because once you get there plenty of markers right in front of you end up being above, below, or some other roundabout way of having to learn how to get there.
 

Marano

Member
Mar 30, 2018
4,893
Rio de Janeiro
Could try it? Not a large download. I've had the game crash twice in about 15 hours on X, it's not great but hardly a big issue for me.
With me it crashed three times in 10 minutes, when it crashed the third time I gave up, it was at the beginning of the game before opening that door with your companion. But yeah, I'm redownloading it.
 

Dervius

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,918
UK
Second Dungeon done. First time, due in no small part to caution borne of reading on here and a decent coop partner on the boss.

Whole placed was dripping atmosphere and probably the most souls like experience so far. Gave me some Sunken King vibes delving deeper in.

This is an incredibly accomplished indie game.
 

benj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,833
lol doing seat of the matron and my AI companion just despawned partway through never to return

not thrilled about it!

e: love the dungeon, though, and really like the two weapons I've found in it so far. just wish i wasn't arbitrarily put at a huge handicap
 

Tohsaka

Member
Nov 17, 2017
6,796
Yes there is. It is pretty basic and doesn't cover everything but pretty useful all the same. Favourite use is to locate/prioritise side quests and the like, but the game encourages exploration naturally so you don't find yourself constantly checking it or anything like that.
Yes, I find I rely on it quite a bit because the waypoint indicator on the HUD isn't that useful. The map shows where to go for each quest. It doesn't take away all challange though because once you get there plenty of markers right in front of you end up being above, below, or some other roundabout way of having to learn how to get there.
Yeah, there's even waypoints
Nice, thanks. My sense of direction in games can be pretty bad sometimes, so the fact that there's a map means I'm more likely to play it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,301
It sounds exactly like you have been playing multiplayer (hence the random/disobedient/dying/vanishing "NPC" companion). It's normally great but I've just turned off for the night after my companion decided not to work with me deep into Matriarch's long dungeon of hell. I think with such a long dungeon if you get someone who doesn't have the same goals as you it's going to be a problem, unlike the rest of the game where the phase out after a while isn't an issue as they'll be replaced with someone who wants to cooperate or more closely mirrors your own plans.

I'm going to try it with an AI companion tomorrow by disabling multiplayer in the settings. Have a feeling it will work out great just for this one specific area but too tired to confirm now. Other option is private multiplayer with someone but I don't know anyone on Xbox who is around this point. Hope that helps and good luck!

I just went back and I got to the same part in the Matriarch dungeon and the following happened

For context, this is deep into the dungeon. You come up a small set of stairs onto a long raised path. On either side are four ledges with big enemies. There are also those ghosts, some of the crawling guys too.

When I reach this part, Jokell completely stops following me. He stands at the bottom of the stairs and does nothing. This is the exact same thing that happened to me the first time. I 100% do not believe this is a real person because the way he reacts to me getting close was identical to before. I'm trying to maybe bait Jokell up by leashing one of the enemies towards him but he doesn't react. Then at one point Jokell magically disappeared and I heard him fighting enemies above. Not only did he warp up to the raised platform, he agro'd a bunch of other enemies, and got killed. This left me with about 4 or 5 enemies agro'd on me and I died.

This is completely absurd to me. To have this break so easily deep into a difficult dungeon? I had absolutely no idea how to deal with this situation. The enemy layout seems designed to be impossible to deal with alone yet my only companion is broken and I can't reliably expect him to help.

Worse yet, I don't seem to have any other quests to do. Elia and Jokells quests are past the Whispers in an area I can't reach I believe. So I'm stuck here with this broken quest.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,301
Really wanted to give this game a chance but it's too buggy and it's core mechanics are too flawed for me to bother with it. Good time to see how reliable Epic's refund policy is.
 

Dervius

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,918
UK
Really wanted to give this game a chance but it's too buggy and it's core mechanics are too flawed for me to bother with it. Good time to see how reliable Epic's refund policy is.

Out of curiosity, flawed in what way?


Edit: Just read the post before. I had a similar situation with an u reliable AI companion on way through. I just turned them off and worked slowly through solo till the boss. It's doable.
 

Yerffej

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,566
Out of curiosity, flawed in what way?


Edit: Just read the post before. I had a similar situation with an u reliable AI companion on way through. I just turned them off and worked slowly through solo till the boss. It's doable.
Then I'm absolute shit because I get rocked even with the AI companion. I just wish my guy controlled a little better. The world keeps me coming back tho.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,301
Out of curiosity, flawed in what way?

Exactly what I described above. The AI companion system is broken. The pathfinding is bad. They randomly disappear on you. I literally watched Jokell spawn, walk right into water and die. The situation I describe above that happened deep into a very difficult dungeon is exactly the kind of thing you don't want to happen in this kind of game. If you central conceit is that you'll always have an AI companion and you design the game and balance it around that conceit - that system has to be rock-fucking-solid. And it absolutely is not here. Having Jokell randomly disappear and spawn causing enemies to agro is a variable that is not welcome in a Souls style game.

And since I have absolutely no idea how the multiplayer works....or it's broken on PC, the only solution is to turn AI companions off, which is super dumb considering they designed the game around them being there.
 
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