Asian Americans are buying guns in the wake of recent attacks, but community leaders say that's not the way to prevent hate crimes

[SilentPanda]

Some Asian Americans are buying guns for the first time as attacks fuel fear across the nation, but advocates say firearms are not the solution.

Murray and other Asian American activists across the country are concerned that people seeking a sense of security are opting to buy guns. Meanwhile, a new group wants to help Asians learn how to handle and shoot handguns if they so choose.

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When the Atlanta-area spa shootings happened earlier this year, it reminded her of the shooting spree in the Midwest that left former Northwestern University basketball coach Ricky Byrdsong and a Korean American student at Indiana University dead.

"I remember the sheer terror," Fan said. "At the tender age of 18, I realized that there are people out there who will shoot us because we look different."

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Chris Cheng, a gun rights advocate and past champion of the History Channel's "Top Shot," has been answering numerous emails and social media messages from Asian Americans looking to purchase their first firearm in recent months.

More Asian Americans are understanding that they are their own "first layer of protection" and can't rely on law enforcement to be there to help them all the time, Cheng said.

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Last month, the Asian American and Pacific Islander Gun Owners (AAPI GO) club was created to emphasize safe and responsible gun ownership in the community.

Scott Kane, another of the group's founders, said he started looking into creating a group months after his wife and daughter, who are Asian, were yelled and spat upon by a group of men driving by on a pickup while the family was walking on a San Francisco Bay Area street.

"I started looking into personal defenses and options, which eventually led me to my first firearm purchase," Kane told CNN

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Asian Americans are buying guns in the wake of recent attacks, but community leaders say that's not the way to prevent hate crimes

Some Asian Americans are buying guns for the first time as attacks fuel fear across the nation, but advocates say firearms are not the solution.

www.cnn.com

Taiwanese, doesn't own a gun, did learn gun rule and thing while in the manditory military training.
A Gun is not a toy~ it is a dangerous weapon that require specific training to utilize safely.
And to own one here in Taiwan, is a big responsibility, having to get mental check, police check, and taking test and police can do random check to see if storing safely.
So only aboriginal hunter, Mountain Search and rescue, former military people, and Anti-Triad police own guns here.
There are many people that like gun here(Video game, movie, etc), but most of them are also survival game fan, and buy airgun that look like real gun, but shoot bb bullet, some modify to shoot through soda can.

at most we have mean wild dog at night when walking to the local 7-11, so it's more recomded to buy a pepper spray instead

Although the current new thing seems to be gel base one, but that would be a better option to self protect, since it is easier to use, and less likely to hurt yourself or family even if accident.

 

[Jack Bauer]

I disagree. Buying a gun and learning how to use it properly absolutely is the best way to defend oneself against these racists.

These scumbags are not coming at Asian-Americans with mace or bare hands. They've mostly been armed with items that are intended to cause severe injury or death.

Pop a couple rounds in just one of these attackers and see if the attacks don't stop.

 

[Wackamole]

I can understand. These attacks are so violent.
Damn, such scary times for people living there.

 

[MoonToon]

It's a bad move, but people are going to do what that when this nation has a death grip on "the right to have a highly effective killing tool".

 

[Lishi]

We had the same discussion when black where buying guns and there where people refusing to accept the data and studies.


Data show that buying a gun actually will increase the chance of your dears one getting hurt.

 

[Paroni]

I can't think of a better short-term solution, but it should also be kept in mind that these attacks tend to be sudden, random and happen in situations where the victims have zero chances to defend themselves even if they were armed.

 

[Supoman]

Edit: wrong thread

 

[Fleck0]

I don't think I've ever seen news about people defending themselves from a sudden, unexpected attack quickdraw-style. But with the insane shit that has happened in the bay area lately I certainly get why demand for guns shot up.

 

[JoJo'sDentCo]

I have a Vietnamese colleague who told me other day that his brother who lives in the states was attacked on the street out of nowhere with melee weapons by three black men, but he managed to dodge a few hits and pulled out his gun killed one of them and wounded the other two.

Dunno what would have happened if he didn't have a gun. But blood was spilled and someone died because of this mess.

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That's crazy but how is the attackers being black relevant to this story?

 

[Supoman]

That's crazy but how is the attackers being black relevant to this story?

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Shit sorry, I thought I was posting on the other thread wrong thread sorry.

 

[DarthMasta]

It's always a bad result when more guns are added to the situation, but people gotta do what people gotta do. Sucks though.

 

[JoJo'sDentCo]

It's always a bad result when more guns are added to the situation, but people gotta do what people gotta do. Sucks though.

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Yeah, I don't blame the individual gun owners but I don't think this is going to turn out well from a macro level.

 

[DukeBlueBall]

Idk, I'm not sure how the Asian grandmas are going to be able to operate an firearm effectively and efficiently in the situations we saw.

The people that can buy and use a gun are probably not the ones that will be attacked in the first place.

There needs to be patrols by volunteer groups in SF and NY

 

[Vermillion]

...Why is it that white people are the only group without "community leaders?"

I dislike that term.

Anyways, I can't speak to what an individual chooses to do in order to feel safer.

But there are still exactly 0 good (public) answers to stop the violence, so.

 

[JoJo'sDentCo]

Idk, I'm not sure how the Asian grandmas are going to be able to operate an firearm effectively and efficiently in the situations we saw.

The people that can buy and use a gun are probably not the ones that will be attacked in the first place.

There needs to be patrols by volunteer groups in SF and NY

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I agree.

 

[Darkspellmaster]

...Why is it that white people are the only group without "community leaders?"

I dislike that term.

Anyways, I can't speak to what an individual chooses to do in order to feel safer.

But there are still exactly 0 good (public) answers to stop the violence, so.

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For clarification there are community leaders for white people, its just that its normally based on nationality or religious beliefs or political groups locally than rights in some cases.

So like in Chicago right now the Italian community leaders are annoyed and want the Columbus statue up some place as an example.

 

[Advance.Wars.Sgt.]

Asian-Era don't allow the pedants to overrun this thread with gaslighting nonsense. Do what makes you and yours feel safe, even if that means arming yourselves which I support 100%

 

[Jakten]

I mean I'm sure a lot of that money from the sales of those guns is going to go directly into funding propaganda outlets and right wing politicians. The exact people who want things to get worse because they profit off it.

 

[metal]

I disagree. Buying a gun and learning how to use it properly absolutely is the best way to defend oneself against these racists.

These scumbags are not coming at Asian-Americans with mace or bare hands. They've mostly been armed with items that are intended to cause severe injury or death.

Pop a couple rounds in just one of these attackers and see if the attacks don't stop.

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Yep, get trained and practice proper gun safety.

For those not wanting to own a gun, pick up some POM OC Spray. Actually even gun owners should buy this stuff. More likely to have to use OC Spray at some point than your gun. It's good to have a non-lethal option.

 

[DarknessTear]

Not big on guns, but when it comes down to it... these people clearly need to arm themselves and protect themselves. Nobody else is going to help them. We've seen videos repeatedly of women being beaten by men and I don't think this is going to stop unless people fight back as hard as they can. It sucks that it has to come to this, though. I can't even make sense of why asian americans are being attacked like this. My country is so broken.

 

[Rayasab]

Totally understandable, but the recent attacks targeting seniors or mom/dad with a child, it’ll be more lethal. The gov is the one to blame on failing to prevent theses hate crimes and let the attackers walk away.

 

[Pelleas]

We had the same discussion when black where buying guns and there where people refusing to accept the data and studies.


Data show that buying a gun actually will increase the chance of your dears one getting hurt.

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Data and studies that are old and don't take into consideration different demographics. We also had motherfuckers saying it's better for Black folk to beg for their lives instead of trying to defend themselves. Fuck anyone that tries to lecture minority groups on how they should try and defend themselves.

 

[SilentRob]

I disagree. Buying a gun and learning how to use it properly absolutely is the best way to defend oneself against these racists.

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You are statistically, provably wrong and spouting NRA propaganda.

 

[Pelleas]

You are statistically, provably wrong and spouting NRA propaganda.

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You're statistically lumping us in with white gun nuts.

 

[UltimateHigh]

guns can take a bad situation and make it worse, happens literally all the time. also, a whole lot of these attacks have been sucker shots on older folks.

gun lobbies, shops and all the right wingers are way into this development though.

 

[entremet]

Aren't most of these attacks happening to the elderly as well? Not sure if this is the best solution.

 

[Midee]

Data and studies that are old and don't take into consideration different demographics.

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What do you mean by this?

 

[Zulith]

Most of these attacks happen out in public places, so for the gun to matter you are going to have to carry it around when going about your daily business. Outside of your safety zone (your home or work.) Are you really willing to do that? Because that poses a LOT of things to consider.

It should be already known by anyone looking through this thread I'm sure, but it's worth being reminded how the gun violence statistics compare from the USA vs. every other country on earth. We already have some groups very entrenched in gun culture (rural and right-leaning whites making up a large portion), but there's now a push in black and asian communities to arm up as well for their own reasons. This is going to dig is further into the ground on our gun problem. We are never going to get out of this hole. I guess all I'm trying to say with this is that most people buy a gun(s) for what they feel are just reasons. But the gun violence data shows us that the way those guns are used, by and large, hardly reflect that.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

...Why is it that white people are the only group without "community leaders?"

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Go to an ethnic community (like Little Italy) and you will find them.

 

[RROCKMAN]

What do you mean by this?

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That there could be a significant difference with the temperament of white people and the reason they buy guns vs the temperament minorities and the reasons they would buy a gun. That could also impact the "friendly fire" rate that is high as shit in older studies.

Or the what I like to call the "I don't think owning a gun suddenly turns a person into a in dumbass" idea. It's very reasonable in my opinion.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I disagree. Buying a gun and learning how to use it properly absolutely is the best way to defend oneself against these racists.

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Firearms would have only been an indirect help in any of these cases we've seen on video. These attackers are cold-cocking people, with no warning or even anything said. Most career criminals. People who are suddenly, randomly starting to swing fists or objects on strangers. None of the attacked would have been helped by a firearm, as they were dazed or hurt before they even would have known what was happening. The ones that weren't hit first were completely unprepared for the person's bad intentions (Atlanta) and would have not been able to protect themselves anyway. Many of these situations would have been actively made worse if they were armed because the assailant could have taken the firearm from them if it was visible and used it on them and/or a bystander could have been shot (most assaults have been in crowded or otherwise busy areas; one was on a fairly full subway or bus I think, greatly increasing the odds for bystanders being hit).

The only way a firearm helps here is via a bystander drawing on someone. Which is fine, maybe their presence with a pointed firearm stops an assailant trying to hurt a person. But if they don't stop and the person shoots, they're looking at a minimum of $20k in legal defense whether their decision to fire will ultimately be found to be legal or not. Either way, this context is important here. Carrying for protection is more likely than not going to be about defending someone else's life unless a situation unfolds slowly enough for you to change gears from whatever you were doing and thinking about as you walked down the street...and react to it. If someone runs up on you and you get stun-locked, your firearm is most likely no longer a viable option.

Note: I am a concealed carry owner that owns several guns.

 

[Midee]

That there could be a significant difference with the temperament of white people and the reason they buy guns vs the temperament minorities and the reasons they would buy a gun. That could also impact the "friendly fire" rate that is high as shit in older studies.

Or the what I like to call the "I don't think owning a gun suddenly turns a person into a in dumbass" idea. It's very reasonable in my opinion.

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K... I'm not even gonna touch that one, but here's something I know from personal experience of almost being shot: You don't need to be a dumbass to have a gun accident.

 

[clevbrowns95]

I disagree. Buying a gun and learning how to use it properly absolutely is the best way to defend oneself against these racists.

These scumbags are not coming at Asian-Americans with mace or bare hands. They've mostly been armed with items that are intended to cause severe injury or death.

Pop a couple rounds in just one of these attackers and see if the attacks don't stop.

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The thing with a gun is that if it's a fist fight, you have now brought a deadly weapon into the situation. It can just as likely be taken from you and used on you as it can be used for self defense. Or innocent bystanders can be hurt or killed if firing a gun in a crowded area. I don't blame Asian American, or African Americans, or any group having real fear and looking for means of self defense, but it's no guarantee that it works. That's just something people need to consider.

 

[Makoto Yuki]

I'm all for it. As long as it's responsible gun ownership.

Personally I've been eyeing a few weapons. Part of it is the increase against violence against Asians, but mostly because guns are fun if handled with respect.

They are not toys, they are weapons, don't handle them lightly.

 

[UltimateHigh]

Firearms would have only been an indirect help in any of these cases we've seen on video. These attackers are cold-cocking people, with no warning or even anything said. Most career criminals. Just a person suddenly, randomly starts swinging fists or objects. None of the attacked would have been helped by a firearm, as they were dazed or hurt before they even would have known what was happening. Many would have been actively made worse if they were armed because the assailant could have taken the firearm from them if it was visible or a bystander could have been shot (most assaults have been in crowded or otherwise busy areas; one was on a fairly full subway or bus I think).

The only way a firearm helps here is via a bystander drawing on someone. Which is fine, but that context is important here. Carrying for protection is more likely than not going to be about defending someone else unless a situation unfolds slowly enough for you to change gears from whatever you were doing and thinking about as you walked down the street...and react to it.

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Yep, without a doubt.

it's better off having pepper spray or something non-lethal, because when worse comes to worse, at least that can't be used to murder you by the person who very much has the advantage.

 

[Raysoul]

Understandable, but disappointing. I just hope your country wouldn't turn into a big battle royale.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Yep, without a doubt.

it's better off having pepper spray or something non-lethal, because when worse comes to worse, at least that can't be used to murder you by the person who very much has the advantage.

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I agree. Pepper spray or a taser for reactionary defense is the best play in an urban environment where most of these crimes are happening.

Now if we're talking home defense? A firearm is very much appropriate. Business owner and wants a roscoe behind the counter? Absolutely. But people walking around with firearms in dense urban areas? The number of ways that can go very sideways very fast is high and more likely than a good result is for the assault victim.

Again, it's all about how these situations are unfolding right now. People minding their own business and suddenly they're receiving punches or bricks. No prep time, no opportunity to see a big problem starting to unfold. They're walking their kid in a stroller or looking at groceries one moment and the next moment they're on the floor trying to shield their face from blows. There is no window to pull out a firearm, aim and fire it safely or reasonably.

 

[StereoVSN]

That there could be a significant difference with the temperament of white people and the reason they buy guns vs the temperament minorities and the reasons they would buy a gun. That could also impact the "friendly fire" rate that is high as shit in older studies.

Or the what I like to call the "I don't think owning a gun suddenly turns a person into a in dumbass" idea. It's very reasonable in my opinion.

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There is no statistical evidence to support anything you are saying. There is plenty to support the opposite that a lot of gun accidents happen to gun owners and their families. It has nothing to do with being white or black or Asian, as most people will not do the training and will not keep up with training and going to the range.

That said, I absolutely understand why folks would be buying guns in today's crazy circumstances. It wouldn't help in a public attack (unless you are advocating everyone carries), but it would make people feel safer at home.

Edit: I hate everything about stupid gun culture in US. I really wish we could cancel the damn outdated 2nd amendment and buy/confiscate guns from the public. It will never happen.

 

[Dever]

Firearms would have only been an indirect help in any of these cases we've seen on video. These attackers are cold-cocking people, with no warning or even anything said. Most career criminals. People who are suddenly, randomly starting to swing fists or objects on strangers. None of the attacked would have been helped by a firearm, as they were dazed or hurt before they even would have known what was happening. The ones that weren't hit first were completely unprepared for the person's bad intentions (Atlanta) and would have not been able to protect themselves anyway. Many of these situations would have been actively made worse if they were armed because the assailant could have taken the firearm from them if it was visible and used it on them and/or a bystander could have been shot (most assaults have been in crowded or otherwise busy areas; one was on a fairly full subway or bus I think, greatly increasing the odds for bystanders being hit).

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I feel like the case where two Asian women were beaten with a cinder block in their liquor store could have turned out better if they were armed. Specifically the second woman. There was a risk she could have shot the other woman by mistake, or had the gun stolen from her, but you never know. As it was, it was pure luck that the assailant gave up instead of killing them both

 

[Dreams-Visions]

There is no statistical evidence to support anything you are saying. There is plenty to support the opposite that a lot of gun accidents happen to gun owners and their families. It has nothing to do with being white or black or Asian, as most people will not do the training and will not keep up with training and going to the range.

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To further your point (again): even if they are well trained and go to the range regularly...it would not have helped any of the people we've seen on video lately. There is no training designed to help you take punches that come out of nowhere outside of warzone military training where everyone not in your company are considered potential hostiles at all times. Nobody walking around with a stroller or walking down the street with groceries on a street that they've walked 10,000 times before safely would be prepared for how they were attacked enough to respond well with a firearm.

I feel like the case where two Asian women were beaten with a cinder block in their liquor store could have turned out better if they were armed. Specifically the second woman. There was a risk she could have shot the other woman by mistake, or had the gun stolen from her, but you never know. As it was, it was pure luck that the assailant gave up instead of killing them both

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I'd have to see the videos again, perhaps. If they *sensed* that the situation was going to escalate in an extreme way and had time to pull something out of a purse, sure. But most of these people would not have been able to defend themselves with a firearm based on what I recall of the videos I have seen. Woman in NYC? Person on the train/bus? Man with the stroller? All made worse (or not helped) by firearms. And in some of those cities, concealed carrying a firearm is illegal for anyone anyway.

 

[Cuburger]

The problem is that these attack have happened in very public places, have targeted people that they don't think will fight back like the elderly and women, and have been sneak attacks to again lessen the chance that the person is able to fight back.

Maybe guns give people peace of mind, but I think in most situations pepper spray seems more practical to carry at all times, easier to deploy in crowded areas and cramped spaces, and you don't have to take into account that a gun is used to kill and responsible gun use means that you have to determine if the threat to yourself is enough to potentially kill or maim someone else and potentially other uninvolved bystanders if you aren't extremely accurate and careful, and if you are just now learning how to use a gun, it makes the latter much less likely.

I definitely believe in self defense options, especially since it seems like the cops aren't going to protect you and even many of these cases other bystanders aren't going to step in, even when the attacker isn't armed or is just verbally attacking a person at first.

I think that being hyper-aware of your surroundings is the first thing you can do. Also traveling in groups as much as possible and being in public places. It won't necessarily keep you safe, but if there are people to actually look out for each other, the chances that they keep each other safer from more bodily harm is greater.

But if you are Asian and live alone in a rural community, then sure, buy a gun.

 

[Lishi]

Data and studies that are old and don't take into consideration different demographics.

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To prove the data not correct anymore you need new data, not feeling. And research are updated.

We also had motherfuckers saying it's better for Black folk to beg for their lives instead of trying to defend themselves. Fuck anyone that tries to lecture minority groups on how they should try and defend themselves.

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And he was banned, everyone else was just saying that guns don't increase one safety, it actively harm the safety of those who you are supposed to protect. So people buying gun it's a net negative because it will harm the one that are supposed to protect.

 

[Deleted member 8118]

As long as people get firearm training and understand the ramifications of using a firearm to defuse a situation, I’m for it..., but I know that won’t be the case.

 

[Kwigo]

Sad but understandable.
It's not like they could count on someone else defending them.

 

[Pancho]

I can’t blame them. If I felt such a harsh sense of danger of being randomly attacked while I go through the day, I would also consider arming myself

 

[Dr.Acula]

As a non-American, I just don't get your gun culture, it's literally one of the worst things about America, and guns make everyone less safe.

As others have pointed out, a gun won't protect you if you're attacked from behind, or if your attacker gains your gun.

 

[SpaceBridge]

With Cops killing everyone that isn’t white, and more concerned with serving the Incarceration Industry they have become a non issue with serving and protecting racialized communities. Therefore I fully support more people of color owning guns responsibly.

Gun ownership is a predominantly white hobby. And with the deep roots of conservatism/white supremacy and the gun industry I just don’t see how that statistic benefits anyone but the types who espouse violence against people of color and would march on the Capitol.

If increased gun ownership within. POC communities prevents violence, and has added benefit of fascists long term goal of taking over less likely then it’s a win. It’s part of the constitution, whites have been owning guns for less important reasons.

 

[mztik]

As a non-American, I just don't get your gun culture, it's literally one of the worst things about America, and guns make everyone less safe.

As others have pointed out, a gun won't protect you if you're attacked from behind, or if your attacker gains your gun.

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Decades of NRA propaganda have the population instantly thinking more guns on the street makes everything safer. Unfortunately, cops killing minorities on sight and daily racism attacks aren't helping. It only helps strengthen NRA's argument.

 

[YMB]

The cold cocking or hit from behind arguments im seeing here would only really be relevant if the person was knocked out or out right killed from the first attack. Thats not the case from a vast majority of these attacks im seeing. Most of the time the individuals are still in the fight of which id think the advantage of a gun could still come into play. Something also to consider (and i say this as someone who does carry) is if you do carry a gun you also tend to be more alert of your surroundings and less oblivious to those walking around.

 

[SpaceBridge]

Decades of NRA propaganda have the population instantly thinking more guns on the street makes everything safer. Unfortunately, cops killing minorities on sight and daily racism attacks aren't helping. It only helps strengthen NRA's argument.

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Im sure the NRA didn’t expect minorities to start owning guns but well here we are.