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BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
12,838
Australia
Oh no they will cost more for sure. You still need to hire artists capable of making those assets, at which point you're competing with every other studio making a AAA game on salary. Equally, making a kratos head that can be knocked down to decent quality means the head doesn't need to be AS good in zbrush, but making a head that can be knocked down to excellent quality means the zbrush asset has to be better, if you follow me. Ideally yes you would just make the Best Kratos Head Ever and use that one asset for the rest of time, but that's not entirely realistic. That one artist has to be better than they used to be, and they will probably spend as much time on kratos's head as they used to spend on all of kratos, so overall making kratos needs more time, and time costs money.

I'm still a little confused - so the PS4 game assets that were originally made at beyond-PS5 detail levels before being cut down wouldn't be good enough to be cut down for use in PS5 games? Even though they already had more detail than what you'd need for a PS5 game?

And yes, amount of stuff too. Look at how much stuff is strewn around environments in RE8 or similar, it's insane detail compared to older games. A lot of that stuff is done by outsourcing but its still time to make all of those assets, and time costs money etc etc

Very true, though the fact that RE8 is a cross-gen game sorta brings me back to what I was saying about how a lot of PS4 games already have this kind of crazy detail. That's why I had doubts about PS5 games costing more to make, especially given what I've heard about the SSD being much less of a time-consuming pain to work with.

Maybe asset libraries could help with this sort of thing? It would be wonderful if every dev set about using them for some of their game's assets while also making their own and adding those back to the library. They could grow and grow over time.
 
Dec 15, 2017
659
How have video games had working traffic simulation since like Driver on PS1, but we don't yet have fully autonomous vehicles in the real world? Like I get there's less things that could go wrong, but was it just a predefined script that could also be dynamic when need be to account for player variables?
 
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Farlander

Farlander

Game Designer
Verified
Sep 29, 2021
332
Are there times when you are surprised critic reviews didn't pick up on a flaw in a game that personally bothered you? Like an aspect of game design reviewing well initially only to be criticized by the players after release?

Also, how solid are the feature lists for patches and how far out are they usually scheduled before a game even comes out?

1. I would say yes but no examples come to my mind now.

2. A month or two before the game has to be sent to submission it starts to become clear what things will have to be delegated to day-1 patch/further down the line (it's important to make sure that nobody prioritizes those tasks for the initial submission)

For someone with 0 programming skills, but would like to fiddle around with some game developing engines, what do you as a professional recommend?

Also, this is for the staff of ERA. Please encourage more devs to do stuff like this here. It would be fucking amazing to make these regular events on the forums.

If you want to first fiddle with something really simple and easy to learn, you can try to use something like Construct 2 or maybe Game Maker.

How easy is it to steer the design direction of a game once a project starts? (Things like movement speed, traversal elements, combat) I ask this, because I am curious if a game-changing title like Breath of the Wild came out, how quickly could you take influence from a game like that? Would that cause everything to break and take too much time?

Unless it's still early in the project timeline, any significant steering in terms of direction (high level design decisions and principles used) would be very difficult and disruptive for the whole game. Though even small changes can be disruptive as well, a famous example is when the devs of RDR2 were asked to add black bars in cutscenes and that involved redoing TONS of camera work.

Why is ultrawide not supported by many games on pc? Are there any reasons other than ultrawide having a low adoption rate and it taking time to customize the UI?

Many games use tricks that would happen off-screen, ultrawide usually breaks those (akin to how in many older 4:3 TV shows you see different things like production workers, lights, other stuff, in widescreen releases), and changing that can take quite a lot of effort.

As someone solely looking from the outside in. I hear that making rope physics in games is by far the most PAINFUL and difficult experience from a development standpoint. Why do you think that is?

EXTREMELY painful. Multiple potential connection points, physics variation between tension states, collision issues.... That's why all the developers online were amazed by the rope mechanics in TLoU2 and wished they have more gameplay usage (I haven't played TLoU2 yet but hear that ropes are unutilized there in comparison to the amount of effort it would take to bring them to that state).

How labyrinthine is the process to fix small errors, like typos, or say, music loop point errors? Because some games, there will be a few pretty egregious ones that just never get fixed even after a year or more. Have you ever been blocked from fixing simple things by higher-ups?

Edit: I should clarify that when I say egregious, I mean things like large text on an in-game billboard or such. Not, say, a random sentence in a visual novel somewhere.

Hm... it's a bit difficult to talk about abstract examples in this case, but to be absolutely fair, if there's an issue that seems small that wasn't fixed even after a year of patches, it's less of a higher-up issue and more of a 'this simple looking thing is actually not simple'

I have two questions - one very specific and one more related to process.

The specific question is about clipping. What is typically done to resolve clipping issues? Is it a matter of assigning a "hard" border on a polygon to make sure other objects collide properly? It feels like it happens a lot on custom models like gear that changes while a character is wearing it. Where is the line typically between "this is fixable" and "this isn't with fixing"?

The other question is - in your experience how often is peer review done?

To put it this way - it is cheaper for performance to have a simple shape collision (box, capsule) than it is to have a mesh convex collision which can get quite taxing and not worth it. So it depends on the complexity of clothing as well as how important that clothing is.

By peer review, do you mean checking the work and providing feedback? When people are working on a particular feature they're providing feedback to each other on a daily/hourly basis really, but then there can be bigger reviews that are weekly or monthly depending on their scope.

Why does no game simply boot at the title screen? I don't want to look at crappy logos for a minute until I can load my save. Like, I get it the first time you boot, but after the game detects a save file, it should just skip to the title screen.

Most of the time this is due to requirements rather than any technical need (though sometimes there are cases when some things are loading during cutscenes).
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,932
Brazil
Sometimes it's a requirement, either regulatory or contractual.

Let's take a racing game for example, here are some considerations:
  • Some of the car manufacturers you work with require an OLP (officially licensed product) badge to be shown on startup.
  • It's a driving game and you need to warn people that the driving in-game is for entertainment purposes only, and shouldn't be replicated in real life because it's dangerous.
  • It's a fast-moving game, higher chance of epilepsy issues so you need a flashing images warning.
  • You might need some legal boilerplate text on startup depending on what game engine you're using.
There's probably a few other things as well but it's mostly the above. Heck it might even be hiding a loading segment in the backend too, especially if the game's frontend uses a 3D environment.

The logos up front for Havok or whatever are often a contractual obligation for using that technology.

Most of the time this is due to requirements rather than any technical need (though sometimes there are cases when some things are loading during cutscenes).
Thanks for the answers. I had imagined there were contractual obligations, but we still see stuff like company logos during boot, which just make the process longer, which make it seem like the devs don't care about making the players wait. Though I'm sure it isn't a problem for indie games and the like. I just wish there were more of a movement to start up games faster.
 

SickNasty

Member
Mar 18, 2020
1,256
I'm still a little confused - so the PS4 game assets that were originally made at beyond-PS5 detail levels before being cut down wouldn't be good enough to be cut down for use in PS5 games? Even though they already had more detail than what you'd need for a PS5 game?

Very true, though the fact that RE8 is a cross-gen game sorta brings me back to what I was saying about how a lot of PS4 games already have this kind of crazy detail. That's why I had doubts about PS5 games costing more to make, especially given what I've heard about the SSD being much less of a time-consuming pain to work with.

Maybe asset libraries could help with this sort of thing? It would be wonderful if every dev set about using them for some of their game's assets while also making their own and adding those back to the library. They could grow and grow over time.

Simplest answer is when making a PS4 game, you're not targeting Ps5 or 6 quality. You're targeting Ps4 quality and getting there as efficiently as possible. Particularly for a hero asset like the main character, you want to have it always be as good as possible every time (especially since if gamers even catch a whiff of a dev reusing something, they get extremely pissy about it).
Asset libraries are used by tons of people, you just don't notice it as much because they are usually given a personality pass over the top to match the project's art direction. But they're massive and widely used, the unreal marketplace etc exist for a reason, not just for funsies.

which make it seem like the devs don't care about making the players wait.
We don't, really. Speaking personally of course lol.
 
Aug 26, 2018
3,732
日本
Hm... it's a bit difficult to talk about abstract examples in this case, but to be absolutely fair, if there's an issue that seems small that wasn't fixed even after a year of patches, it's less of a higher-up issue and more of a 'this simple looking thing is actually not simple'
Thanks for replying. I hear you. I know you can't speak for them, but a specific example off the top of my head would be in Guilty Gear Strive, there's a food cart in the New York stage that says "Dunny Missiles" when it's supposed to say "Danny Missiles."
E5S7IVGVIAE20rb

That's been there since the game released last June and surely someone somewhere in the company noticed it by now. I'd think it being front and center of the stage would place it at a higher priority and it doesn't seem like it'd be anything to fix. I could take the exposed texture file and edit it myself in 30 seconds provided I had access to the font they used.

As a music example, I know in Street Fighter V, the character F.A.N.G's theme doesn't quite loop correctly with the restart point being a measure off. That's been there for six years. I know how to move a loop point in a given audio program (again, that'd be about 30 seconds), but I have no experience with Unreal Engine, so maybe something there would go wrong. When they released the official soundtrack, the loop point was correct. But they never fixed it in the game itself.

In the end, these don't "matter" or break the game in any way, so maybe there'd be no "official clearance" to fix them, hence why I asked if you've ever been blocked from addressing something like that.

I can answer about music loop point error. This often happens within several situations:
- The musician is not a video game composer, just a regular composer, and does not have good knowledge on how to do good loop points (it's not as easy as it sounds)
- The programmer doing this is not a sound/musician guy so it does not care, does not notice it.
- Both of the above and people using mp3 for some reason, as those can't loop properly.

You can have two persons that can fix this, a video game composer with extensive knowledge on how to loop a track and how to fix it, or an audio programmer, which is more and more prominent on big studios nowadays, who knows sound and can code or even modify the track audio wave so it loops correctly.

At the end the fix is not hard to implement if you have the right people on board.
Thanks for responding. The above example is odd, as I'm pretty sure it's the sole song in the game with the problem. And the game has multiple composers both internal and contracted. Someone should've been able to fix it if they wanted to. They did fix it for the soundtrack release.
 
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Farlander

Farlander

Game Designer
Verified
Sep 29, 2021
332
We've recently seen games like Halo Infinite and Battlefield 2042, to name a few, crash and burn after going through a very tough development cycle.

What does it actually take as a team to convince those in power to delay a major release so a game can avoid these types of issues?

It just seems this continues to happen over and over again which ultimately hurts the staff that worked so hard on making these games a reality.

I will be quite frank, the core of the problem here is poor management, planning, and lack of a proper direction at the beginning of a problem. You won't believe how many creative leads I have seen/heard about who are 'good talkers' but are horrible at actually leading project development in terms of direction. This leads to things like weird priorities, focusing on changes that would be less important than iteration on other things, etc. etc. And this is because a lot of people get to lead positions precisely because of being good talkers rather than showcasing leadership skills. Not saying that I worked on a project with such leadership (in fact, I would say that this didn't happen that much in my personal experience), but this happens very often.

Ultimately that's the root of all tough development cycles. Delays are just an attempt to fix that, but in 80% of the time wouldn't have been necessary with proper clarity in direction.

The thing about delays though is that they increase a game's budget, which means they increase the amount of copies that have to be sold in a fast enough amount of time to be considered a profitable endeavor. Sometimes from that perspective it is better to just get the game out of the door first.

For touch game devs: the best active action experiences on iPads have by far been Bastion, Geometry Wars 3 and the most intuitive controlling one was Wayward Souls. Broken down it's left pane for movement and right pane for taps and slides, using one or two fingers.

Barring the question of accessibility and dexterous movement with two hands:

Why didn't we get the Halo console FPS paradigm shift in touch games with, I guess, something like Wayward Souls? Move, attack, fire projectiles, open doors and other environmental actions and interactions without having to move ones eyes to look at the screen controls for the required action button or hope blind tapping hits the correct action button.

Why are we still met with a ridiculous number of action icons which will never feel intuitive, and actually may be a different form of gaming input prowess and ability significantly/entirely until some incredible microhaptic feedback is invented for consumer products?

Wayward Souls is a game where you move on one half and do actions on another half. FPSes on touch screens are usually games where you move on one half and aim/rotate camera with another half - the most important actions. So in this case it will be very easy for actions like moving the right finger up to look up be confused with a, let's say, grenade throw action.

I think it's possible to have an FPS game without action buttons, but it has to be EXTREMELY specifically designed for that and require a lot of testing and iterations to make it right, because the core problem still remains - you already have two constantly used functions on two halves of the screen, how do you separate those from other actions? That's the challenge.

Have there been times where you've seen a story altered because of what would be required to program or create? As in simplified or removed, as an aspiring writer i do often wonder how much creative control a writer can have within the gaming industry among others.

Oh for sure. This relates to both story and gameplay, when story has to be altered because of gameplay and vice versa. There are so many times where something sounds like it is reasonable to do, and then for one reason or another it's not.

Wow, I greatly appreciate this thread.

One thing I really wanted to know. I've seen a lot of people say next-gen exclusives will be more costly and time-consuming to make sure to the increase in required asset quality. However, I've also seen and heard a lot about how assets for last-gen games were already created at very high levels of detail and then brought down with decision and retopology - not just for PC ports and such but things like these Zbrush models for Nathan Drake and Kratos:

images

0b9b149d5eb6f71502c62b790279562d012bb6b2.jpeg


So if that's the case, I would've assumed the work going into these assets wouldn't actually increase, and the only change would be not needing to cut their detail as much. Can you comment on this in any way?

Besides what others have said, there's a lot more to graphical fidelity and manpower for it than the quality of the model itself - animations, amount of environmental assets, physics, etc.

Couple of questions about one subject:

Is there always a Game Design Document (GDD) when developing a game?
How detailed and big are these documents?
Does everyone in the team have access to it?
How much does a team rely on such a document?

I'm sure some parts of (even the core) design will change during development. How is this communicated normally to the team? Will the Game Designer alter the GDD and then point to these changes or does he present it in a big meeting?

It's not as much a single GDD for the whole game, as much as it is a bunch of smaller GDDs for smaller games. Regarding details, usually it's as detailed as needed - here's the thing, designing EVERYTHING in advance consumes a lot of time and is usually not useful, because then when you will have to iterate you will essentially throw out a bunch of design work, so usually GDDs have flows, mock-ups, required variables etc., but some very little details are not part of it - they're usually tracked through task lists or JIRA, not through GDDs.

Good documentation is imperative for everyone to be on the same page, and of course if there are big changes then the team must be made aware of that through a call or presentation.

One thing that has been bugging me for a while is: why is there still in this day and age a need to have a 'Press start' screen in so many games? I mean, yes, it can look nice, and I think I read sometime ago that it is necessary to see which controller will be the primary or active controller (?), but if the latter is a reason, then why doesn't the OS send the 'this controller started the game' property along in the startup args or something?

If it's just because it looks nice: please, for the love of god, do the actual game loading before or while showing the 'Press start' screen, because why would you not?

I mean, on the latest consoles, load times are no issue anymore I guess, but I remember on PS3 I would sometimes start a game, walk away to the bathroom or something, and then return, expecting a game to be loaded, but nooo, I see the press start screen and then the loading starts, WHYY? And I still notice it in games nowadays: first the Press Start screen and then some logos popping up or something, so annoying!

If you have to or want to use a Press Start screen, make sure a single press shows the menu instantly after.

Console manufacturer requirements really. For Microsoft specifically that's needed to know which user is using the console (since different controllers can be assigned to different users), then it is a safety measure to avoid TV burn in. And for example while on a PlayStation you select the user before starting the game, any console-specific feature is a pain to keep track of, even a small one, so it sort of done on all platforms even if some don't need it.

Hi!
How accurate is a video game color work? And how often do you feel that is misrepresented on certain screens, videos, screenshots etc. is that an issue at all in game development? Is there a consideration on how people will look at your game? Do find yourself looking at stuff you worked on and finding that something looks off?
I also have kinda of the same questions on the sound department, specially the mix.
Being a film colorist myself sometimes I feel like dying when I watch certain theatrical releases of work I did on certain theatres/projectors/broadcast or even home releases.


Another thing I would like to kindly ask you, is why do games come with so different sound levels between them? Like if I want to have a session on game A I know that I will need to rank up the overall volume of my speakers quite a bit…but then if I jump to game B than I will need to bring it down considerably….shouldn't there be an default sound mix value to avoid this issue?
Sorry for so many questions!
Thank you for your time!

Color work is tricky, but at least internally all artists need to have their screens calibrated the same way to ensure consistency. I'm not an artist myself though so they would be able to give more info on that.

Regarding the sound level differences between games - there's no required standards related to that, so every developer follows their own principles.


Great thread! Who are the unsung heroes of game development? Also, what is something in a specific game that you were really impressed with and gave you a 'why didn't I think of that?!' moment - even if it's a very small thing that only people in your speciality would appreciate? Thanks

Unsung heroes are testers and community managers. Testers and quality analysts usually are the lowest paid jobs and whenever people complain about issues in a game they usually unfairly blame QA ("how did QA not see this?" is a question I HATE). And community managers have to deal with shittons of toxic shit and honestly protect a lot of developers from having to deal with that.

does anyone do automated tests? i imagine they must but do they really?

Yep, automated tests are definitely done.
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
12,838
Australia
Simplest answer is when making a PS4 game, you're not targeting Ps5 or 6 quality. You're targeting Ps4 quality and getting there as efficiently as possible. Particularly for a hero asset like the main character, you want to have it always be as good as possible every time (especially since if gamers even catch a whiff of a dev reusing something, they get extremely pissy about it).
Asset libraries are used by tons of people, you just don't notice it as much because they are usually given a personality pass over the top to match the project's art direction. But they're massive and widely used, the unreal marketplace etc exist for a reason, not just for funsies.

Thanks for the details, I appreciate it. I hope things can be made easier for you when it comes to developing these sorts of games.
 

machtia

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,517
Thanks for the answers. I had imagined there were contractual obligations, but we still see stuff like company logos during boot, which just make the process longer, which make it seem like the devs don't care about making the players wait. Though I'm sure it isn't a problem for indie games and the like. I just wish there were more of a movement to start up games faster.
Playing off this, I'm curious what value companies like Havok get from showing their logos upfront. Is it just to advertise to other developers? I really doubt any consumer is basing their purchasing decision on which physics engine, etc. is used.
 

SickNasty

Member
Mar 18, 2020
1,256
Thanks for the details, I appreciate it. I hope things can be made easier for you when it comes to developing these sorts of games.

Well the easier it gets, the more people want. It balances itself out.

Playing off this, I'm curious what value companies like Havok get from showing their logos upfront. Is it just to advertise to other developers? I really doubt any consumer is basing their purchasing decision on which physics engine, etc. is used.
People on this forum base their decisions on way stupider stuff than that haha.
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
12,838
Australia
Besides what others have said, there's a lot more to graphical fidelity and manpower for it than the quality of the model itself - animations, amount of environmental assets, physics, etc.

Oh, for sure, I just wasn't sure if those things were going to see a significant jump over a lot of PS4 games. Except for physics, god knows those new CPUs need a workout. Thank you.
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
12,838
Australia
Well the easier it gets, the more people want. It balances itself out.

Ugh, I know. It feels like this whole graphical arms race has gone too far. I mean, I love stuff like TLOU2, but I do sometimes wonder what games could be like if the graphics on even the biggest titles were Sifu-esque. But even that requires exceptional talent in art direction.
 

SickNasty

Member
Mar 18, 2020
1,256
Ugh, I know. It feels like this whole graphical arms race has gone too far. I mean, I love stuff like TLOU2, but I do sometimes wonder what games could be like if the graphics on even the biggest titles were Sifu-esque. But even that requires exceptional talent in art direction.
I would love this, I've worked on so many photorealistic games and I'm sick of the waste frankly. There's a perception that something like Sea of Thieves, which at max quality in 4k is absolutely mindblowing to look at, is somehow lesser or simpler graphics wise, when in truth it takes far, far more talent and direction than just copying real life. I already have real life, I want art to show me something else.
 

Dussck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,136
The Netherlands
Since I'm on, I'll answer this:

On every project I've worked on, there has been a game bible full of GDDs. I write GDDs for the levels I design, for features we're concepting, for narrative, sound, etc. They're collaboratively made, available to the whole team for making sure we're aligned on our vision, and many are living documents. For single player games, the bible is a big deal and can be very detailed. That being said, I haven't seen much uniformity in the formatting of GDDs, and within the bible you'll have a bunch of stuff written and collated by different people- some full of hand drawn images or references, some dry and to the point. Also worth noting is that most developers have switched to making wikis full of design docs to collate info and collaborate across the team.

Edit: on the subject of presentations- All the time. There are so many meetings. Meetings forever. Meetings for every single mundane thing you can think of because of exactly what you're getting at- it's so hard to keep track of everything. But if something MASSIVE changed, it'd be a team wide meeting with a presentation along with the wiki updates. For something small, you might not need to mention it as your doc could be for future reference or someone else to learn from. It's just important to catalogue as muc has possible and put your ideas into writing for reference to the entire team.
Thanks both for the answers.
 

captainpat

Member
Nov 15, 2017
877
Is there a reason devs seem to really like film grain and chromatic aberration? Those always seem to be on by default in a lot of games I play, but a lot of settings guides I've seen usually recommend turning them off.
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
12,838
Australia
I would love this, I've worked on so many photorealistic games and I'm sick of the waste frankly. There's a perception that something like Sea of Thieves, which at max quality in 4k is absolutely mindblowing to look at, is somehow lesser or simpler graphics wise, when in truth it takes far, far more talent and direction than just copying real life. I already have real life, I want art to show me something else.

Yeah, we need a big, major studio to take a risk on a big AAA project that goes in hard on other aspects like simulation, variety, branching story, etc while keeping the visuals comparatively simple. I wouldn't want EVERY game to be like that, but the possibilities...
 

TimeKillr

Member
Feb 9, 2021
175
Thanks for replying. I hear you. I know you can't speak for them, but a specific example off the top of my head would be in Guilty Gear Strive, there's a food cart in the New York stage that says "Dunny Missiles" when it's supposed to say "Danny Missiles."
E5S7IVGVIAE20rb

That's been there since the game released last June and surely someone somewhere in the company noticed it by now. I'd think it being front and center of the stage would place it at a higher priority and it doesn't seem like it'd be anything to fix. I could take the exposed texture file and edit it myself in 30 seconds provided I had access to the font they used.

As a music example, I know in Street Fighter V, the character F.A.N.G's theme doesn't quite loop correctly with the restart point being a measure off. That's been there for six years. I know how to move a loop point in a given audio program (again, that'd be about 30 seconds), but I have no experience with Unreal Engine, so maybe something there would go wrong. When they released the official soundtrack, the loop point was correct. But they never fixed it in the game itself.

In the end, these don't "matter" or break the game in any way, so maybe there'd be no "official clearance" to fix them, hence why I asked if you've ever been blocked from addressing something like that.

Lemme steal this from Farlander (I'm also a GD - I've been in the industry for 20 years or so, won't mention projects to not get harassed!) but EVERYTHING that is fixed gets "clearance". Absolutely *EVERYTHING*. On top of this, you don't know how easy it might be to fix the problem correctly - yes, you can probably edit the texture yourself and get "Danny Missiles" instead of "Dunny Missiles", but internally, this means taking a texture artist, putting that person on the task, getting the new texture approved, adding the file to the repository, getting reviews on it, then getting it QAed, then sent to approval (since I'm assuming most engines don't really let you live patch this type of thing, in most cases you can't!) then getting released at a major patch milestone where they rebuild the entire base.

Here's the list of things that can go wrong (and there's even more since this is an art issue and I'm not an ar
  • You might not have a texture artist available to do the fix
  • You might not have someone who's available to review the work
  • Costs: You need to pay a texture artist, their lead (to approve), QA (to test), submission QA (to test the submission) (this is the very bare minimum!)
  • On top of costs, this has absolutely zero impact on gameplay. I'm 100% sure it was reported internally, but it's either backlogged or set as Will Not Fix because the energy required to spend on fixing this has literally no impact on anything except a few ppl who notice a misspelling in a texture.
People who aren't devs and who haven't had to spend time in production of ANY game can't understand the difficulty of fixing tiny bugs like this, because when you work on a game with 100+ devs you need to have very strict procedures. Even now, it happens sometimes that someone will push something completely unrelated to the bug fix they worked on and it breaks something else; in this case, the texture could be not compressed properly, which in turn can have other crazy knock-on effects elsewhere that make ZERO sense. So you 100% need someone to review, someone to QA, etc. It's not just a case of "This is a bug, it takes me 2 minutes to fix it, let's do it" because it has impacts on other aspects of a production.

It's not that it's gonna be "blocked" by higher ups or anything, but more that "I have 8 million tasks to do, how much of a priority is this one?". I'd also seriously reconsider someone on a team that shadow-fixed a bug like this without telling anyone, because like I said there's so many potential issues that can arise from a simple fix like this that if you as a dev don't understand that (and you're not super junior!) then there's a problem. :)

On the project I'm on, some fixes are literally "click this checkbox that we forgot to click". Even when the fix is JUST that, it had to be entered into JIRA, tested to validate it's an issue, sent to me, which I then triage it and send it to the appropriate game designer to fix, which they do, make a build to get it tested, sent to a dev tester to check it was done properly and works and there's no immediate issues, then gets reviewed by another GD to make sure the fix is appropriate and nothing else has been modified, gets pushed into the main branch of the game, is then tested by our external QA with a huge list of everything that was fixed in the last build. If the bugfix is correct, then it gets flagged, gets pushed into the main major update, sent to submission to Sony/MS (on PC nobody cares, but as soon as you're console you need approval for every patch). So on my team's end, the fix is a literal "click", but it affects a bunch of other people, who might have better things to do.

I hope this makes sense :)
 

TimeKillr

Member
Feb 9, 2021
175
Unsung heroes are testers and community managers. Testers and quality analysts usually are the lowest paid jobs and whenever people complain about issues in a game they usually unfairly blame QA ("how did QA not see this?" is a question I HATE). And community managers have to deal with shittons of toxic shit and honestly protect a lot of developers from having to deal with that.

Also thank you for this. I got my start in QA a LOOONG time ago, and you as well as I know that not only did QA always see every issue players bring up and see, but they've reported it, and they're also mad it didn't get fixed.

Community managers are also a godsend, and I thank them profusely every time I work with them, because they are a massive shield on the dev team.
 

fenners

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,857
How have video games had working traffic simulation since like Driver on PS1, but we don't yet have fully autonomous vehicles in the real world? Like I get there's less things that could go wrong, but was it just a predefined script that could also be dynamic when need be to account for player variables?

It's two completely different problem spaces. Vehicle driving AI in games have tons of "hints" of the road, can look ahead for baked in information on turns, can easily get a list of nearby things to avoid etc. None of that maps to real world AI.
 
Aug 26, 2018
3,732
日本
On the project I'm on, some fixes are literally "click this checkbox that we forgot to click". Even when the fix is JUST that, it had to be entered into JIRA, tested to validate it's an issue, sent to me, which I then triage it and send it to the appropriate game designer to fix, which they do, make a build to get it tested, sent to a dev tester to check it was done properly and works and there's no immediate issues, then gets reviewed by another GD to make sure the fix is appropriate and nothing else has been modified, gets pushed into the main branch of the game, is then tested by our external QA with a huge list of everything that was fixed in the last build. If the bugfix is correct, then it gets flagged, gets pushed into the main major update, sent to submission to Sony/MS (on PC nobody cares, but as soon as you're console you need approval for every patch). So on my team's end, the fix is a literal "click", but it affects a bunch of other people, who might have better things to do.

I hope this makes sense :)
No, it does. I used the word labyrinthine in the first place for a reason, lol. Thanks for taking the time.
 
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Farlander

Farlander

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Verified
Sep 29, 2021
332
If i gave you a AAA team and 100M budget and told you to just make the best game you could, i dont care about profits. What are some of the things that would change? Specifically in single player games.

Honestly, things are likely to become even less effective :D Generally speaking if you just ask people to make the best game they can/want, you activate their perfectionist tendencies which would lead to a quick burning of the budget with little actual progress. Limits are important.

So I created a game in Unity for a university assignment. I kind of want to iterate on it more and maybe launch it

What device would you say is the easiest to make a game for and what should I take into consideration when making it?

You probably would want to stay on PC for now. It's not that it's easiest to make for, there are a lot of PC configurations so you will have to do a lot of optimization to work on a wide array of specs, but you won't have to worry, for now, about TRCs for consoles and everything related to touch screen.

Why subtitles are in the gameplay option and not in the audio tab?

There's no standard where the subtitle option has to be, so every team just puts it wherever it thinks it feels best :D Honestly personally I am in the 'audio' tab team cause that seems to make more sense.

Is the idea that things like limited live systems and random battles are archaic now as widespread a belief among developers as they are among people who participate in games related discourse? I personally like both of those things as deliberate game design choices a lot, and I feel like I can back up that opinion, so I usually get frustrated whenever I see people make that assertion, but I have to wonder if even game developers themselves feel that way and I'm just out of touch.

Well, it's not that these mechanics are archaic per se, it's more that a lot of times they were used with the purpose of extending playtime (i.e. without lives and increased difficulty you would be able to complete a game in 4 hours, or within 1 quarter if it's an arcade, but introduce lives and increase difficulty curve and now playtime increases to 15 hours/more quarters. So it's a matter of 'hey, does implementing lives make sense in the current paradigm that we have? Do random battles make sense'? Etc. For example in Pokemon Red/Blue with everything that was done there it would've been unreasonable to add Pokemon in the overworld from technical aspect - hence random battles while you're walking in grass or caves. And then it sort of became a series staple, but now that we have advanced far enough the question is does it make sense to keep that? Considering the context has changed? And it allows for better control of player pacing and avoid 100th Zubat in a row, thus a better experience when it comes to collecting Pokemon?

This is not to say that lives and random battles never make sense NOW, but back in the day those features had some pretty specific purposes and nowadays the problems those features were solving aren't always relevant.

Will we ever be sett free of stuff like weapons, hair, cloth clipping through each other on characters?

Certain amount of clipping is unavoidable unless you want to tank performance.
 
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Farlander

Farlander

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Sep 29, 2021
332
Why is it year after year we hear consoles are easier to develop for and tool getting better so that from design to coding get easier and quicker, but still development takes longer and longer it seems. Something doesnt ad up. Is it a bunch of marketing propganda from tool makers and console makers or does the dev period take longer because of the amount of people involved nowadays or bad management etc.

Because even though it is easier to develop a lot of things, scope increases. Let's take animations.

Prince in Sands of Time had around 700 animations, and at that point it was a HUGE amount of animations. Now it's below standard in most high-fidelity AAA games, it would feel like the characters are lacking life and go into uncanny valley. Challenges that people had before are solved easier, but also there are new challenges, some of which are more complex than before.

You know how we like to have 'nice numbers', TV's volume as 50 instead of 46 for example, does this apply to game dev too? Like, are assets placed at 'nice' coordinates, or are they dropped 'willy-nilly' into the scene?
I'm guessing some things snap into place, etc. but you can't pore over every object/effect/texture.
Similarly, how are things like a broken wall modelled? Is there any rhyme or reason to how it's modelled, a simulation perhaps, or is it just what the artist thinks looks right?
Just curious as I know we have photogrammetry and face scanning to have accurate models, but how do you keep accuracy for things you can't scan. Like, how would you even go about modelling a mountain from scratch that's believable...

I can't answer most questions since they're related to field I'm not working in, but I can definitely say that there are many people like me who absolutely HATE coordinate values like 732.034499956 and will at the LEAST put it to a nice 732 or a little bit less nice but necessary 732.1 :D (rounding to 730 or 735 might be too much).

How do you figure out what to, say, visually compromise on/dumb down when everything you make is made in a much higher quality/detail in order for it to run properly? (I know normal maps are used to essentially simulate that high quality detail, but still).

Doesn't have to be character models, could be environments, anything really.

As a side note, I can't compliment ND enough for the game design in TLOU:P2... Generally speaking, narrow spaces in video games which a character clearly can fit through, usually won't let you (always met by an invisible wall).

In TLOU:P2, I could finally squeeze through those suckers!



Priority/amount of time it will be in view/how close it is to us. For example main characters in third person games always get the most amount of detail because you always see them.

When you make mountains in the distance they don't have to be as detailed as stuff that's close to you.

Let's say you're making a room, objects that are larger and in your face will have more detail to them than smaller decorative objects.

Hello!

Translator here, interested in the localization aspect of gaming.

When does localization come into play during a project? From what I understand it's one of the latter elements of the process. Is this true? Do you think it should be earlier?
Also, what influence does the localization have in your work? Either in the way you build the game or the way the localization itself affects you in latter stages of development.

Well, IDEALLY localization should start coming into play around mid-production so there would be enough time to properly discuss between devs and localization teams, and so on. Now, the question is, how often does the ideal situation happen? Well... let's just say, not as often as it should.

Thanks for doing this!

As a recent "No HUD" fan are games that have no or customisable HUDs typically designed to work without a HUD then the HUD is added later or are they co-designed at the same time?

If a game has no HUD at all usually it is designed to work without a HUD from the get go. If HUD is customizable that's not necessarily the case, lack of some HUD elements might not be taken into consideration, but some players might feel they don't need them so an option is given for good measure.

Playing off this, I'm curious what value companies like Havok get from showing their logos upfront. Is it just to advertise to other developers? I really doubt any consumer is basing their purchasing decision on which physics engine, etc. is used.

I remember the days when enthusiasts online were excited about games that used Havok physics (Which right now feels pretty standard), so....... it can definitely work :D

Is there a reason devs seem to really like film grain and chromatic aberration? Those always seem to be on by default in a lot of games I play, but a lot of settings guides I've seen usually recommend turning them off.

Film Grain and Chromatic Aberration, if implemented, are for artistic purposes that devs desire for the art direction of the project rather than any needs they have to solve.
 
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Farlander

Farlander

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Sep 29, 2021
332
I know that some questions in my last chain of posts I didn't answer in great detail, I just tried to prioritize answering as many question as possible, if you feel that's not enough for you feel free to ask additional detail questions :)
 

OrangeNova

Member
Oct 30, 2017
12,669
Canada
Want to say the love to QA in this thread is great, it fills my Senior QA heart with joy.

I will say being at a smaller company for QA, the number of hats I wear on a daily basis and seeing what some of y'all are saying... I wish we had that. Like legit blown away by having a dedicated team of submission/TCR QA is like, I wish.
 

RightChandMan

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,686
New Orleans, LA
Farlander

What is the role of a producer, production coordinator in video games?

I currently work in TV/Movies and I am in the Locations world that eventually wants to produce.

I guess the 2nd part of the question is, would it be an easy transition to go from TV/Movies to video games?
 

Boy

Member
Apr 24, 2018
4,565
I can tell you how I did it in Alien: Isolation - part of the script when you opened a container to look for loot would look at your ammunition and health levels. If it noticed that you had low health, and no medkits, and not all of the necessary components for a medkit, it would start a timer (I think a minute or two?) and if that timer had expired and you were still in that state, the script would force-spawn some medkit components into the container before anything else had the chance to spawn. Similarly for pistol ammo (but not other types of ammo) - there was a bit of script where if you had no ammo for a period of time it'd force spawn a little bit beyond the normal item system.

So yeah, if you want to avoid situations like the player really screwing their gamestate because they run out of ammo, you can do it with some relatively simple scripting. But that depends on what kind of game you are looking to make.

Very cool. I've always wondered about the inner workings of how these things are balanced. I can't imagine the abundance of work to get things working right, considering there are a lot of variables of things that can go wrong since everyone's playstyle is different.
 

Vitet

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,573
Valencia, Spain
Thanks for responding. The above example is odd, as I'm pretty sure it's the sole song in the game with the problem. And the game has multiple composers both internal and contracted. Someone should've been able to fix it if they wanted to. They did fix it for the soundtrack release.

For that exact example, it's not hard to fix but maybe the person that can/know how to do it is not contracted anymore or they just have it as a very low priority fix and just don't bother on spending resources to fix it.
 

benj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,833
Maybe asset libraries could help with this sort of thing? It would be wonderful if every dev set about using them for some of their game's assets while also making their own and adding those back to the library. They could grow and grow over time.
On top of what SickNasty said above: Asset libraries are, in general, a great idea. The amount of human life and money and computing power that's been burned scanning, modeling, UV unwrapping, texturing, writing PBR shaders for cabinets and rocks and Rubble_03.fbx is absolutely ridiculous and wasteful. How many different 3D models of rocks do we, as a species, need? Why don't we just make do with what we have?

One problem of asset libraries is unification of style--two 3D artists are going to make two different-looking 3D rocks, even if they're both working in a 'realistic' style or a 'toon' style or what have you. Some of this style difference can be smoothed over in a 'personality pass', by altering the shader or texture maps that the rocks use, by using post-processing (screenwide) effects, etc. Sometimes, this style difference can be used in dialogue with the content of the game. One example might be using more photorealistic ('harsher') assets in exteriors to communicate starkness and alienation, and using more styled ('warmer') assets in interiors to communicate comfiness. Another might be intentionally putting objects with disparate styles in close, messy proximity as juxtaposition, to create an impression of eclecticism or uncanny conflict.

In general, though, this is hard to pull off, because most modern gaming audiences bring a CinemaSins-style investigative paranoia to bear on assets in games, and dismiss apparent style conflicts as being an intrinsic failure on the part of the artists or the devs--they are not usually open to thinking about what those style conflicts might accomplish, it's labeled 'jank' and goes in the CONS column in a negative Steam review.

This attitude also extends to instances of asset 'reuse', and this is the real obstacle to these asset libraries taking off. People who play AAA games, by and large, are allergic to visible asset reuse. If you are making a realistic game and you use the same cupboard twice in one room, buddy, Dunkey is going to make a video about your ass. I guess the ideal is that every cupboard in the game be an entirely new model with an entirely specific texture set. I wish this value was interrogated a little more by gaming audiences--why do we need more than one cupboard? But people think we do, and that's part of why asset creation for game development is inflating with the rest of game development.

Something interesting to watch in this space: By and large, audiences are even more leery of asset reuse across games than they are within games. Calling a game an "asset flip" used to mean it resold third-party assets without adding anything of value. Now it means "the developers of this game did not make every asset themselves", to the point that games like PUBG get called asset flips for having assets from the Unreal marketplace.

More and more, Unreal has been pushing to pull indie devs and small shops away from Unity. One of their big value-adds in this space has been free access to the Quixel Megascans library, which is a sizeable repository of photorealistic assets that is growing all the time. This is an incredible resource and it's great for devs. At the same time, if this big exodus to Unreal holds, we are going to be seeing a lot of those assets in games in a couple years--meaning not only a lot of the same rocks and cabinets, but a lot of games designed around what is available in those megascans. If you are an indie dev and you want to make a game in Unreal, there's a pretty strong incentive to choose a setting that works with Quixel's packs, like "Japanese Shrines" or "Limestone Quarry". Of course, good artists are always going to be able to use this stuff in interesting ways to their own ends, but this stuff stands to become as ubiquitous as Synty's lowpoly assets are for Unity or Kenney's assets are for 2D games.

It'll be interesting to see what happens. Maybe audiences will continue rejecting so-called 'asset reuse' out of hand and there'll be an enormous backlash to this wave of games. Maybe everyone will get over it. Maybe the preponderance of photorealistic assets will serve as the popularization of the camera did for painting and portraiture, freeing it from the obligation of realism, laying the groundwork for impressionism and surrealism and eclecticism.
 

Deleted member 12009

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Is the idea that things like limited live systems and random battles are archaic now as widespread a belief among developers as they are among people who participate in games related discourse? I personally like both of those things as deliberate game design choices a lot, and I feel like I can back up that opinion, so I usually get frustrated whenever I see people make that assertion, but I have to wonder if even game developers themselves feel that way and I'm just out of touch.

Unfortunately, those features were focus-tested and user-researched into oblivion. There's a place for them, but when we're talking big budget games there's not much room for risk and often times things simply get eroded down to the lowest-common-denomenator for design. After years of learning this lesson (some time ago, mind you) people have just stopped trying to make those kinds of experiences. Not to say they couldn't make a come back- but they probably won't be in the form we remember.
 

Deleted member 12009

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If i gave you a AAA team and 100M budget and told you to just make the best game you could, i dont care about profits. What are some of the things that would change? Specifically in single player games.

Give me a billion dollars and I'd spend it making multiple smaller titles with interesting gameplay mechanics. That's what needs to change within the industry. However, players are so critical and used to a high quality bar that they'd latch on to any lack of polish or missing features that major AAA have so that would be a major concern with this kind of strategy. That's what needs to change, though. Smaller, more interesting games that don't require a ton of additional work like making sure a character's foot doesn't clip into rocks when they step onto uneven ground. There's so much time spent on this largely ignored stuff, but it's part of the AAA process. Hell, I'm used to crunch spent polishing ik collision while simultaneously fixing major, game breaking script bugs. Time is just never on your side in game dev.
 
Nov 23, 2017
4,999
I have a question about side quest design and the thought processes and decision-making processes that go into it.

For example, the Final Fantasy VII Remake. I think it was the best game of 2020 even with the side quests and find it to a legitimately phenomenal video game. But the one thing on the negative side that sticks to me are the side quests. A decent amount of them are just pointless filler where the player doesn't get to learn much more about the world and its lore. People love the Witcher III for the depth of its side quests.

I just want to know how teams get together to determine what's acceptable in side quests and how teams get through those processes. Because if I was making games, I'm not sure I'd make side quests about finding cats. Are making side quests with more lore and narrative developments a lot more taxing? Where does the line get drawn? I have a curiosity with this.
 

Astronomer

Member
Aug 22, 2019
1,200
It depends on the game.

With a sequel or a game where there are more knowns, pre-production can be shorter because there is less to prototype and more things can be sorted out on paper. For a game that's totally new (or has a lot of new features) pre-production will be used to prototype and make sure that things are fun before committing more resources.

Makes sense. Thank you.
 

Deleted member 12009

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Are making side quests with more lore and narrative developments a lot more taxing? Where does the line get drawn? I have a curiosity with this.

Exponentially. The amount of people required to implement a 'find the cats' side quest or 'find the feather/pick up trash/etc' quest is negligable, as it requires practically zero animation or art support (or minor in the case of cats, though I'd probably just use assets made for set decoration and repurpose those) and minimal writing. The LD can basically do it on their own.

Why these get made is more complicated. Often, it comes down to the playersn needing some kind of resource, like money or exp, but the game's experience curve isn't supporting it. Perhaps we under estimated the necessary exp required to beat a boss up ahead, or we just realized that for players of lower skill they might need to grind a bit more. Regardless, it was necessary to add mind-numbing tasks, late in production, to make sure they could cross the finish line.

Sometimes it is padding. Sometimes its a useful tool for forcing players to explore a space they otherwise would just sprint through. There are so many reasons to do this but the bottom line is that its rarely satisfying and often poorly recieved in playtesting. It's left because the utility it provides overcomes the cost to implement it.
 

klauskpm

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Oct 26, 2017
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About 3 months on average? And the E3/presentation/demo build would have to be ready like at least 1/2 weeks in advance. In one of the replies I've mentioned that games are a mess until they get close to the end of production when everything starts to fit together and get a proper layer of polish. Well, for E3 or a demo you have to polish a SPECIFIC part of the game (and sometimes totally new sections are made because that part would be very messy), usually it happens in a 2nd branch so that changes on the main branch wouldn't break the demo build, and then everything relevant from the E3 branch would get transferred to main branch. Usually there's a bunch of people specifically delegated to the demo/E3 build.

A lot of time these demo/E3 builds are used as sort of quality targets as well, so it can actually be quite helpful in that regard. But just so you know, when you see a very cool demo, be it on E3 or any other place, even if it's a normal and not messy production, there's a 99% likelihood that due to how game development works what you DON'T see in the demo is a mish mash of a jumbled mess with a bunch of robotic voices placeholders, unfinished animations and white blocks :D
3 months? Damn. That must need some fine control of the branches/commits. It must be super dangerous to take that second branch and merge it back to the main one. I can imagine the suffering in code conflicts and in worst cases, losing changes.
 

Deleted member 12009

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3 months? Damn. That must need some fine control of the branches/commits. It must be super dangerous to take that second branch and merge it back to the main one. I can imagine the suffering in code conflicts and in worst cases, losing changes.

It's almost always entirely quarantined and that work will need to be redone on mainline because of how flimsy it's constructed. It's stuff like 'we only need the player to step here, so lets just jank the floor collision in for now and forget about it elsewhere.'
 

PorcoLighto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
765
Any insights on the DX12 stuttering issue?
I am not a graphics dev. But based on the status update from our graphics team, basically it boils down to the general idea that the public already has.
Which is that it is hard, and very time consuming. Sorry cannot go further or deeper than that, but yeah, it is hard af is the impression I got.
 
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Farlander

Farlander

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3 months? Damn. That must need some fine control of the branches/commits. It must be super dangerous to take that second branch and merge it back to the main one. I can imagine the suffering in code conflicts and in worst cases, losing changes.

Sorry, I was a bit misleading in how I formulated the merging part, what I meant is that there are changes that are done for E3 polish but because they would be required for main game as well, they're done in the main branch and then submitted to E3 branch as well. One never tries to implement stuff from E3 branch to main, it's too shaky, hence what I said about 'everything that's not part of the demo is a mess'.
 

Deleted member 12009

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Slow block pushing puzzles. Why do they continue to exist.

This is a personal pet peeve of mine as well and I never use them. They exist because we need the player to slow down, perhaps to load in the next area or allow for some npc dialogue to play. I hate them. They are not puzzles. They don't qualify as anything other than busy work. But, much like squeeze transitions, they're too useful to leave behind. We need time, behind the scenes, to get things ready or properly set something up, so these types of mechanics remain.
 
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Farlander

Farlander

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Sep 29, 2021
332
This is a personal pet peeve of mine as well and I never use them. They exist because we need the player to slow down, perhaps to load in the next area or allow for some npc dialogue to play. I hate them. They are not puzzles. They don't qualify as anything other than busy work. But, much like squeeze transitions, they're too useful to leave behind. We need time, behind the scenes, to get things ready or properly set something up, so these types of mechanics remain.

I can't say I have ever seen an example of a block puzzle being used to hide loading (though wouldn't be surprised some exist), but did see lots of examples of needing something to change up the pace for a while but because there aren't enough elements/mechanics in place, block puzzle it is.
 
Nov 23, 2017
4,999
Exponentially. The amount of people required to implement a 'find the cats' side quest or 'find the feather/pick up trash/etc' quest is negligable, as it requires practically zero animation or art support (or minor in the case of cats, though I'd probably just use assets made for set decoration and repurpose those) and minimal writing. The LD can basically do it on their own.

Why these get made is more complicated. Often, it comes down to the playersn needing some kind of resource, like money or exp, but the game's experience curve isn't supporting it. Perhaps we under estimated the necessary exp required to beat a boss up ahead, or we just realized that for players of lower skill they might need to grind a bit more. Regardless, it was necessary to add mind-numbing tasks, late in production, to make sure they could cross the finish line.

Sometimes it is padding. Sometimes its a useful tool for forcing players to explore a space they otherwise would just sprint through. There are so many reasons to do this but the bottom line is that its rarely satisfying and often poorly recieved in playtesting. It's left because the utility it provides overcomes the cost to implement it.
Thanks so much for your quick and thoughtful response. This makes ton of sense and really answers what I'm thinking. If I may ask a follow up (it's ok if you can't answer): Are developers concerned if the side quests hurt their review scores or does the business aspect take over to such a degree that it's not worth thinking about?
 

klauskpm

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Oct 26, 2017
3,248
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It's almost always entirely quarantined and that work will need to be redone on mainline because of how flimsy it's constructed. It's stuff like 'we only need the player to step here, so lets just jank the floor collision in for now and forget about it elsewhere.'

Sorry, I was a bit misleading in how I formulated the merging part, what I meant is that there are changes that are done for E3 polish but because they would be required for main game as well, they're done in the main branch and then submitted to E3 branch as well. One never tries to implement stuff from E3 branch to main, it's too shaky, hence what I said about 'everything that's not part of the demo is a mess'.
Oh I see. Yeah. That makes more sense and is more reasonable hehehee. I'm no game developer, but I also had to deal with long lived branches and doing specific versions for fairs/events. So that is why I jumped to that conclusion. I thought it was a "the same but worse" situation hehe.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,058
Apologies if that has been asked before, but why are so many games being released with tiny text in their UI - for people that sit about 6 ft away from their TVs (mine is 65 in, for reference), there's still some borderline unreadable stuff. Black Desert in particular is so bad about this, but I've seen it in all sorts of games like Ghostwire: Tokyo, Soulcalibur VI, etc.
 

elenarie

Game Developer
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Jun 10, 2018
9,821
Any insights on the DX12 stuttering issue?

Which one would this be? Are you referring to shader compilation issues? If so, they are not exclusive to Dx12, and happen on both Vulkan and Dx11. Shader compilation issues are present due to there being practically an infinite amount of drivers + GPUs to be practical to bundle said shaders in a precompiled form that would be compatible with all these variants.

As to why shader compilation issues are more present on Dx12 games and why this is more relevant today...

1. Dx12 empowers devs by giving them far slimmer tech stack that they could more greatly control and manipulate. As a result, however, this means that more of the responsibility of ensuring that their games run well are in the hands of devs rather than drivers or the tech stack itself.

2. Shader variations, permutations, combinations and complexity has exploded in recent times, something driven my tools that are much easier to use and the rise in graphical fidelity. What something before was considered a tech art specialisation and work, now even non tech art people are able to create, use and reuse shaders in a variety of ways. Due to hardware limitations before, shader complexity and variations had to be neatly managed, whereas now with some more freedom in resource usage due to better hardware, coupled with, for example, Unreal's very-easy-to-use ability to apply individual shaders not only to asset types but to individual instances of assets, shader complexity and variations have simply exploded out of proportion.

Why you do not see this issue on consoles:
1. Roughly speaking, when a game for consoles is published, the game with itself bundles the exact environment it needs to run. This means that it bundles specific driver versions, specific "OS versions", and similar, and thus, shaders can be easily precompiled for consoles, knowing that the underlying environment will practically never change (it may, but this is very, very rare and often requires SDK upgrades, for which you would be precompiling shaders fresh again anyways).
 

elenarie

Game Developer
Verified
Jun 10, 2018
9,821
Apologies if that has been asked before, but why are so many games being released with tiny text in their UI - for people that sit about 6 ft away from their TVs (mine is 65 in, for reference), there's still some borderline unreadable stuff. Black Desert in particular is so bad about this, but I've seen it in all sorts of games like Ghostwire: Tokyo, Soulcalibur VI, etc.

Generally speaking, games are developed on PC using PC monitors with people sitting quite near the screens. It can be rather simple to overlook something like this in the beginning and middle parts of a project, only to be noticed too late when it may be tricker to change and add functionality.