Assassin’s Creed Odyssey’s latest DLC forces something on the player (open spoilers inside)

SG-17

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,271
So... this is not good. At the end of Part 2 of Legacy of the Hidden Blade you are forced to have a child with Darius' son/daughter (they change it to be opposite of your sex). It doesn't matter if you turn them down constantly, it doesn't matter if you played a gay/lesbian character, the game ends up forcing you into a relationship and having a child. Ubisoft specifically said in the marketing for Odyssey that they wouldn't force you into a relationship and here we are. I'll let this Reddit post add some context.

https://old.reddit.com/r/assassinscreed/comments/ag2ugv/spoiler_the_dlc_ending_rant/

I am so pissed about the ending. I chose not to romance Natakas and they still made me have a baby with him. I sent his ass on his way and rejected the bullshit “mercenary settles down” story. This is fucked up. It’s sexist to force your first playable female character to have a child. She can’t just be a mercenary and a fighter, she has to be a mother. On top of it all, to call the trophy “Growing Up” because you decided to let some guy knock you up is even more sexist. Women who choose not to have children are often told that we need to “grow up” and have kids. Or, even better, we’ll grow up and then realize we want kids. In fact, men should find that offensive too. Men who don’t have kids aren’t socially stunted or immature.
Then, there is, what is for me, the worst part. I’m a lesbian. I was happy to be able to play a character like myself the same way guys or straight women who play games do. Ubisoft made a big fucking deal of being able to choose your character’s sexual orientation. It was part of their marketing campaign. They used what is clearly a lie to sell the game. Lesbians don’t fall in love with men, we don’t have sex with men (except for closeted women who do what they must to survive), we don’t cuddle with men, don’t pine away for men, and don’t long for them when they leave. I’ve had male friends move or die, and I miss them terribly. But! I do it because we were friends and you miss friends.
I know a lot of people who are here won’t get this or care because of the demographics and social leanings of gamers. What Ubisoft did was dangerous because these tropes about lesbians enter our real lives. When entertainment media do this to lesbian characters, it reinforces the myth that all we need is a good man to see the light, that we are secretly longing for a man, or that we can be turned. That type of thing gets us killed, injured, and sexually harassed. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard that and been hounded by men when I tell them I’m not interested in them sexually and why. They cite movies, celebrities who claim to be lesbians for attention but end up with men, books, television shows, and movies as “proof” that we can be changed. When I still rebuffed their advances, sometimes these men escalated it to verbal assault, spitting, and putting their hands on me while calling me a dyke or other slurs. I’m glad Ubisoft gave them a game to cite, now. By the way, I don’t live in some hick town in the Bible Belt. I live in Manhattan, one of the most liberal cities in the world.
Lesbians across the world are subject to what is known as “corrective rape” in order to make us straight. I know another lesbian who was raped for this very reason. It wasn’t a corrective rape ordered by the government or at the behest of a tyrannical religious family, but by regular guys they knew from around. They joked, “You’re straight now, bitch.” Entertainment media contribute to this and Ubisoft joined them.
Ubisoft’s games are played around the world by young impressionable men who’ll take this and add this to their memory bank. I wouldn’t have bought the game if I knew this was going to play out this way because I don’t finance my own oppression or that of others. I don’t finance my own humiliation or that of other groups. Ubisoft, by flat out lying, made me an accomplice to compulsory heterosexuality and dangerous media tropes.
People always say, “If you’re offended by a game, movie, magazine, or album, then don’t buy it.” I agree with that sentiment. In this case, Ubisoft waited until they had my money, which they got via fraudulent advertising, to offend me. I wasn’t given the opportunity to reject the game because I bought it believing what the maker and seller of the game advertised. I want my fucking money back because I was duped into paying for something I find immoral.
I wanted some new cool armor from this DLC but I got a baby and a life with Natakas instead. I was so looking forward to the DLC and NG+. Now the fucking thing is ruined. I feel dirty just playing it.
/rant over
Ubisoft wants Assassin's Creed to become an RPG where choice matters, yet they take away your choice. This is a great example of why player choice doesn't belong in the series.

Here is what Ubisoft said before the game came out.
“Since the story is choice-driven, we never force players in romantic situations they might not be comfortable with,” Dumont says. “Players decide if they want to engage with characters romantically. I think this allows everybody to build the relationships they want, which I feel respects everybody’s roleplay style and desires.”
https://ew.com/gaming/2018/10/09/assassins-creed-odyssey-lgbtq/


Also the new Animus gets residual DNA from objects to extract memories from, Layla gets them from the Spear of Leonidas to see Kassandra's memories. Nothing requires the Eagle Bearer to have a child.
 
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Chaserjoey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,546
Ah man, wish I hadn’t read the title as I’m not that far into the DLC but I played Alexios as a gay man and fuck the game not letting me continue to have him be a gay man :(
 
OP
OP
SG-17

SG-17

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,271
Ah man, wish I hadn’t read the title as I’m not that far into the DLC but I played Alexios as a gay man and fuck the game not letting me continue to have him be a gay man :(
I'm sorry but I couldn't think of any other title, I think this matters more than some spoilers for a DLC. This is really scummy on the part of Ubisoft.

I've requested a title change but I don't see how to discuss this without openly spoiling something. I think its more important than spoilers, if a mod disagrees they can delete/lock this thread or change the title.
 
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Vishmarx

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,043
Thanks for the spoilers in the title.
Also Ubisoft thanks you for believing their marketing.
 

Zetaero

Member
Oct 28, 2017
178
So this sounds like the same situation their mom was put it when it comes to choices about children. I agree that you should be able to consent or not but i understand what they are going for. Sucks though seeing as the only relationship my Alexios had was with someone i had to kill to complete the relationship.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,957
Mount Airy, MD
I get what people are going for here, but I also kind of bristle at the notion that narrative developments should always be player choices. If games are going to have stories, this shit's gonna happen.
 

MinusTydus

The Fallen
Jul 28, 2018
2,079
Yay, forced romance. Is this a David Cage game? Also, Jim Sterling thanks you for the new segment. Fuck Ubisoft for this, either patch this shit out or offer refunds.
 

Eumi

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,190
What a stupid idea.

You don’t let the player choose their sexuality and then take that away. How the heck do you not see that pissing people off?

I mean, I know how, because heteronormativity, but still. What a silly move.
 

Quick Mustard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
493
I'm sorry but I couldn't think of any other title, I think this matters more than some spoilers for a DLC. This is really scummy on the part of Ubisoft.

I've requested a title change but I don't see how to discuss this without openly spoiling something. I think its more important than spoilers, if a mod disagrees they can delete/lock this thread or change the title.
How about: “Spoilers for Assassins Creed Odyssey’s latest DLC”

There, done.
 

Booker.DeWitt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,444
I have not played Odyssey yet, but if the narrative and story demands that you have a child, I guess you gotta do it. At least back in the days (and nowadays in some cultures ) , you sometimes can't choose the mother/father of your child, and even if you are homossexual, they expect a heir. Again, I have not played the game, but that is my interpretation, and I don't think Ubisoft tricked anybody IMHO
 

bombshell

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,927
Denmark
So I know OP doesn't care about spoilers since this isn't the first time, but can you please stop spoiling games in the fucking thread titles?
 

seroun

Member
Oct 25, 2018
452
I hope this gets some popularity because it's shit. If you let the player choose the character's sexual orientation, don't do this type of shit.
 

Albatross

Member
Nov 11, 2017
130
I'll quote myself from the other thread:
This is MAJOR stepback for inclusiveness from a AAA developer. And what's worse, it's a cruel backstabbing after all the praise the game got from LGBT gaming communities.

If they had done it from the beginning it would be different, they could have said that Kassandra/Alexios are straight and want a straight family.
It would have been pretty shitty in 2018 in a Bioware-like game with all the "choose your fate" marketing, but like this...
 

Starlatine

Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,308
I know you have a crusade against Odyssey but spoiling a DLC that just came out just so you can rant about it is pretty fucking shit
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,002
I get what people are going for here, but I also kind of bristle at the notion that narrative developments should always be player choices. If games are going to have stories, this shit's gonna happen.
I get where you're coming from but you can't make a game about player choice upfront and then force him into something because of narrative reasons later on.
It's basically the same shit like those bits in Far Cry 5 where you are magically captured multiple times during the game. It's stupid and goes against what the game was supposed to be.
 

MinusTydus

The Fallen
Jul 28, 2018
2,079
Ah man, wish I hadn’t read the title as I’m not that far into the DLC but I played Alexios as a gay man and fuck the game not letting me continue to have him be a gay man :(
But you have to "Grow Up" and become straight!

This is some pure anti-LGBT+ garbage. Hopefully, it gains traction and Ubisoft is shamed into patching it out.
 

packy17

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,546
Odyssey as a whole strongly revolves around the Leonidas bloodline. AC as a whole has consistently been about certain bloodlines. Yeah it sucks that this is forced, but it shouldn’t really be a shock, either.
 

Nemesis_

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,060
I think this is an issue for sure but I also think, as someone who hasn't even begun the DLC yet (and was looking forward to it) that it was the wrong choice to outright spoil the DLC and then talk about open spoilers AFTER you did that. like did you even give people a chance

like thanks :|
 

Richter1887

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,876
OP why did you put the spoilers in the title? I haven't even played the first episode yet and now you spoil it...

As for relationship, hopefully Ubisoft patches another choice in the next patch.
 

sheaaaa

Member
Oct 28, 2017
838
I'm sorry but I couldn't think of any other title, I think this matters more than some spoilers for a DLC. This is really scummy on the part of Ubisoft.

I've requested a title change but I don't see how to discuss this without openly spoiling something. I think its more important than spoilers, if a mod disagrees they can delete/lock this thread or change the title.
Surely you could have done this without spoilers in the title.
 

sibarraz

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
9,509
Gonna copy paste what I said in the OT

Romance dialogue and options are so terrible in this game that I never really felt like I was choosing a romantic interest for Alex/Kass, and much less define their sexuality as other than bisexual, and that Alex/Kass just wanted to have sex with anyone because that's what Greek people did according to some people.

For example, while playing with Kassandra, I was doing the side quest with the woman who claimed to be a descendant of Odysseus, and the flirting was mostly one sided with the romance options popping up in the worst time posible while Odessa was talking about the problems that she was facing with the leader of the región. And almost all the options felt like "wanna have sex?" worst of all, is that you had the payoff before giving her the details of your investigation in the leader house, like, you are facing this huge dilemma, but that shit doesn't matter, I want to fuck you, and she accepts!, then make up, and after that you actually tell her the news.

I wish that the romance options in this game were more like in the hostess minigame in Yakuza where you actually have to say the right thing at the right time, and the the other part actually gives you some feedback telling you that they want to start a relationship with you. Also, the romance in this games while improve if other characters started flirting with you, and that you have the option to reject them either because you are not into their gender, or other reason. But besides Alcibíades (who also only wanted sex) none other character truly feels like a romantic option to start a relationship.

So in that regard, I honestly don't mind the DLC news, since the main game already botched the romance/sexuality aspects, so may as well give Alex/Kass a canon partner to have a child and move on
 

Nemesis_

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,060
What annoys me most about the dumb spoiler in the title is that this isn't really a story beat I would've expect in Part 2 of the DLC......so frustrating.
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,868
The "fuck Ubisoft" sentiments are weird. Sure this is a problem but they are also one of, if not the most inclusive developers out there...and no one is perfect so there can be mistakes from time to time. I would not want my Kassandra to have a child and it'd bother me to have one....but this is not something vile.

And can the OP not spoil the dlc in the title please? Cause that'd be great.
 
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Dandy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,330
I'm sorry but I couldn't think of any other title, I think this matters more than some spoilers for a DLC. This is really scummy on the part of Ubisoft.

I've requested a title change but I don't see how to discuss this without openly spoiling something. I think its more important than spoilers, if a mod disagrees they can delete/lock this thread or change the title.
Really?! You could easily have titled it something else. Your opinion is not more important than spoiling the story for everyone else.

But hey, bravo! At least you put a spoiler tag AFTER you spoiled the ending in the title.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,957
Mount Airy, MD
I get where you're coming from but you can't make a game about player choice upfront and then force him into something because of narrative reasons later on.
It's basically the same shit like those bits in Far Cry 5 where you are magically captured multiple times during the game. It's stupid and goes against what the game was supposed to be.
I totally get the particulars in this one, especially the whole "growing up" thing.

I'm just disagreeing with the broader notion that if a game involves choices, it shouldn't ever make you do a thing you don't want with the character.
 

Strings

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,209
Blah, while horrible as a concept after emphasizing freedom of choice, this feels like something they would have had to make canon in the background anyway to justify the whole 'playing through an ancestors memory' thing? I don't know, they really should have just kept this out of the game.
No, you get their DNA from their spear. There was never any implications of them having/needing a descendant.
What an extra boneheaded move then.
 
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Due to the realities of the fiction Ubisoft has created surrounding Assassin's Creed, all playable assassins are required to have had children at some point. That's how the genetic memory explored by the Animus works.

Honestly I would not even consider this a spoiler for that reason.
 

DramaticYeti

The Fallen
Apr 11, 2018
57
Atlanta, GA
This is very sad to hear. I’m not even finished with the main game, but my excitement for the DLC has been severely diminshed as a gay Kassandra player. How feasible would it be to fix/update this choice in the game?