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Astros GM suspended for one year after it was found that team cheated using technology to win World Series in 2017. (UPDATE: GM and manager fired)

freshlysqueezed

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,660
NoVA
He was betting on the game as both a player and manager for years.

A player doing steroids or stealing signal doesn't have as large of an impact in a single game.
A player wasn't stealing signs, the whole fucking team was. Every at bat. Every inning. Every game. For three years. They turned the game into batting practice. Pete Rose betting on his team to win isn't shit compared to that.
 

Sanjuro

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,659
Massachusetts
A player wasn't stealing signs, the whole fucking team was. Every at bat. Every inning. Every game. For three years. They turned the game into batting practice. Pete Rose betting on his team to win isn't shit compared to that.
There isn't enough data to suggest how large of a competitive advantage this provided, or if every player even did this, or do it efficiently.
 

DirtyManos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
337
Especially considering that the series against the Dodgers went to Game 7 and the series was for the large part pretty fucking close, this is some bullshit.

Dodgers should've had it...that team was so good too. FUCK

Punishment should be so much harsher.
 
Dec 12, 2017
9,564
I think most franchises would GLADLY trade a slap on the wrist simple suspension for a manager in exchange for winning a World Series for the first time in 50+ years or w/e.

If they aren't stripping HOU of the Chip, this doesn't matter at all. It might even inspire others to do the same. Pain of suspension is temporary. That banner is forever if it is not removed too.
As a still salty Dodgers fan, i concur.
 

smurfx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,064
this is bullshit the organization needs to face more consequences. do they really expect people to believe it started and ended with the gm and manager?
 

JustSurvive

Member
Oct 27, 2017
942
I don't see how stripping them of the championship wasn't first on the list; NCAA has vacated many titles over the years for the actions of only a few players, but an entire team is caught cheating and only this?
 

sangreal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,915
Stealing sings on the field is fair game, but using the video feeds is cheating. This goes even beyond even that, being a full-blown conspiracy to cheat. Bans should be handed out, for Cora at the very least

I don't see how stripping them of the championship wasn't first on the list; NCAA has vacated many titles over the years for the actions of only a few players, but an entire team is caught cheating and only this?
In a world where the 1919 title still stands, MLB isn't going to strip anything. I will now forever be salty about the 2017 ALCS though
 
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Cels

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,083
if you cheat throughout the regular season and postseason, even after a midseason warning against that exact type of cheating, you still get to retain the il-gotten title obtained after cheating through that postseason.

moreover, if that cheating is masterminded by the players (and one rogue bench coach), no players will get punished in any way.

got it, manfred
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,108
It’s weird to me how many people are criticizing MLB for not stripping the championship from the Astros. Any time the NCAA vacates wins or titles, just about everyone shrugs it off as useless and mocks them for it. It’s odd to see so many people acting like it would be some big consequence here.
 

Conan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
229
This math only works if you somehow convince yourself that the Astros won because of this cheating. Yes it's bad and I'm glad they got punished but the optics are worse than the benefits they gained. You can institute this exact system for the orioles and they are still going to lose 100 games.

The real crime is that the owner emerges without a scratch, but this is the way it goes I guess.
 

Vilam

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,945
It’s weird to me how many people are criticizing MLB for not stripping the championship from the Astros. Any time the NCAA vacates wins or titles, just about everyone shrugs it off as useless and mocks them for it. It’s odd to see so many people acting like it would be some big consequence here.
Because it's typically done for ridiculous reasons in the NCAA that people don't agree with.
 

Mcfrank

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,395
This math only works if you somehow convince yourself that the Astros won because of this cheating. Yes it's bad and I'm glad they got punished but the optics are worse than the benefits they gained. You can institute this exact system for the orioles and they are still going to lose 100 games.

The real crime is that the owner emerges without a scratch, but this is the way it goes I guess.
The series came down to a handful of at bats. Yes they won because of cheating.
 

Big-E

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,842
This math only works if you somehow convince yourself that the Astros won because of this cheating. Yes it's bad and I'm glad they got punished but the optics are worse than the benefits they gained. You can institute this exact system for the orioles and they are still going to lose 100 games.

The real crime is that the owner emerges without a scratch, but this is the way it goes I guess.
I think you are downplaying this. Knowing exactly what pitch is coming is a huge advantage.
Massive. If you know fastball is coming, you are at such a huge advantage.
 
May 26, 2018
5,082
I think you are downplaying this. Knowing exactly what pitch is coming is a huge advantage.
Massive. If you know fastball is coming, you are at such a huge advantage.
You already have timing pegged, which is a gigantic part of a pitcher's arsenal. Plus break! Just need to put your bat in the right place. Obviously not easy, but shit, baseball is SO hard anyway.
 

rsfour

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,771
This math only works if you somehow convince yourself that the Astros won because of this cheating. Yes it's bad and I'm glad they got punished but the optics are worse than the benefits they gained. You can institute this exact system for the orioles and they are still going to lose 100 games.

The real crime is that the owner emerges without a scratch, but this is the way it goes I guess.
the real crime is that the punishment is still shit.
 

Conan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
229
The series came down to a handful of at bats. Yes they won because of cheating.
Saying it doesn't make it true, nobody knows. There are plenty of players that admit that getting signs from second base hindered them at the plate and preferred not to know them. The appearance of impropriety is the real problem, but to pretend like the Astros could not have won without this doesn't really make sense, their performance in away games is good evidence for this.

My team was knocked out of the playoffs by the Astros in 2017, but they were the better team.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
8,382
It’s weird to me how many people are criticizing MLB for not stripping the championship from the Astros. Any time the NCAA vacates wins or titles, just about everyone shrugs it off as useless and mocks them for it. It’s odd to see so many people acting like it would be some big consequence here.
If there was a rampant cheating scandal in the NCAA... I'm not talking about recruiting or paying a player, I'm talking like you stole the other team's playbook or bugged the locker room, or something similar that gave them a competitive advantage on the field, I wouldn't argue about vacating a title, and really nobody should. At all. When it's near the death penalty because someone unaffiliated with the school gave Reggie Bush's parents a car and a house, well, yeah, I'm going to call foul especially with the haphazard way they penalize programs.
 

Lathentar

Member
Oct 27, 2017
94
A player wasn't stealing signs, the whole fucking team was. Every at bat. Every inning. Every game. For three years. They turned the game into batting practice. Pete Rose betting on his team to win isn't shit compared to that.
Guess you didn't read the report at all. Only applicable to home games only for 2017 season and part of 2018 season. The players stopped doing it because they didn't find it effective. Astros had a better away record than home record in 2017. This is a fair punishment.
 

digdug2k

Member
Mar 28, 2018
814
It’s weird to me how many people are criticizing MLB for not stripping the championship from the Astros. Any time the NCAA vacates wins or titles, just about everyone shrugs it off as useless and mocks them for it. It’s odd to see so many people acting like it would be some big consequence here.
I think people would here too. Revoking the title + banning for life + hefty fines though... I think people would be fine with those 3 together.
 

MM300

Member
Dec 23, 2018
59
A joke of a punishment. If Manfred was too scared to strip them of a title, then he should have, at a minimum: extended the loss of draft picks to five years, imposed restrictions / sanctions on the international market similar to what he did to the Braves, handed out one-season suspensions to all players involved, and banned Hinch and Luhnow for life. As it is, this is nothing but a slap on the wrist for them.
 

Sanjuro

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,659
Massachusetts
A joke of a punishment. If Manfred was too scared to strip them of a title, then he should have, at a minimum: extended the loss of draft picks to five years, imposed restrictions / sanctions on the international market similar to what he did to the Braves, handed out one-season suspensions to all players involved, and banned Hinch and Luhnow for life. As it is, this is nothing but a slap on the wrist for them.
The statement says discipline would be difficult and impractical, which isn't wrong. You need to field a professional baseball team in 2020.
 

J.T

Member
Nov 22, 2017
511
Fuck that is a slap on the wrist, MLB need to at least BAN these people but just 1 year suspension, what a joke. I would have love to see them vacate the World Series but that will probably never happen in professional sports, at least put an astrick on the championship. Shit they already is one in the record books. Fucking joke.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
8,382
I understand the union would have had a field day, but the players should have been punished somehow. You can't talk about the integrity of the game and then have a whole team complicit in cheating. You could argue that some didn't use the signs, fine, but they ALL knew about it, I don't think that's even up for dispute. So I don't get why they can't at least have some nominal punishment.
 

Parch

Member
Nov 6, 2017
3,338
There are probably legal aspects to stripping titles and banning players. They have a legally binding CBA and the MLBPA is a powerful union. There are limits to the amount they can punish. MLB just can't dish out whatever penalties they want.

The NCAA can do what they want because they do not have those restrictions and are all empowering. NCAA players have no power and very few legal rights.
 

Josh5890

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,042
I understand the union would have had a field day, but the players should have been punished somehow. You can't talk about the integrity of the game and then have a whole team complicit in cheating. You could argue that some didn't use the signs, fine, but they ALL knew about it, I don't think that's even up for dispute. So I don't get why they can't at least have some nominal punishment.
I definitely agree that the players SHOULD be disciplined, but that would probably turn into a long battle that would easily end up in court. Manfred doesn't want that dragging on.

Maybe if it was circled around a couple of players MLB might be able to punish them, but not when it is the majority of a team.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,231
I understand the union would have had a field day, but the players should have been punished somehow. You can't talk about the integrity of the game and then have a whole team complicit in cheating. You could argue that some didn't use the signs, fine, but they ALL knew about it, I don't think that's even up for dispute. So I don't get why they can't at least have some nominal punishment.
It seems like offering amnesty to the players for all infractions other than lying was a key part of their investigation strategy.