A player wasn't stealing signs, the whole fucking team was. Every at bat. Every inning. Every game. For three years. They turned the game into batting practice. Pete Rose betting on his team to win isn't shit compared to that.
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Astros GM suspended for one year after it was found that team cheated using technology to win World Series in 2017. (UPDATE: GM and manager fired)
- Thread starter Uzumaki Goku
- Start date
A player wasn't stealing signs, the whole fucking team was. Every at bat. Every inning. Every game. For three years. They turned the game into batting practice. Pete Rose betting on his team to win isn't shit compared to that.
Because adding/removing players to the lineup or being able to control an at bat has a greater single game impact than stealing signals.
There isn't enough data to suggest how large of a competitive advantage this provided, or if every player even did this, or do it efficiently.
Especially considering that the series against the Dodgers went to Game 7 and the series was for the large part pretty fucking close, this is some bullshit.
Dodgers should've had it...that team was so good too. FUCK
Punishment should be so much harsher.
Dodgers should've had it...that team was so good too. FUCK
Punishment should be so much harsher.
Were you not around for the steroid era? Baseball has always been ripe with controversy
Salty Indians fan here, who was also in the path of these cheaters. I feel your pain.
Getting paid to injure other players is something that should be severely punished. You can easily end someone's career by being reckless.
Injured or worse. Imagine having your livelihood taken away because someone wanted an extra couple grand?
Yeah, it should be like college. Stripped of the title otherwise, why would anyone not take the chance if the trade was a banner?
I don't see how stripping them of the championship wasn't first on the list; NCAA has vacated many titles over the years for the actions of only a few players, but an entire team is caught cheating and only this?
Stealing sings on the field is fair game, but using the video feeds is cheating. This goes even beyond even that, being a full-blown conspiracy to cheat. Bans should be handed out, for Cora at the very least
In a world where the 1919 title still stands, MLB isn't going to strip anything. I will now forever be salty about the 2017 ALCS though
In a world where the 1919 title still stands, MLB isn't going to strip anything. I will now forever be salty about the 2017 ALCS though
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if you cheat throughout the regular season and postseason, even after a midseason warning against that exact type of cheating, you still get to retain the il-gotten title obtained after cheating through that postseason.
moreover, if that cheating is masterminded by the players (and one rogue bench coach), no players will get punished in any way.
got it, manfred
moreover, if that cheating is masterminded by the players (and one rogue bench coach), no players will get punished in any way.
got it, manfred
It's weird to me how many people are criticizing MLB for not stripping the championship from the Astros. Any time the NCAA vacates wins or titles, just about everyone shrugs it off as useless and mocks them for it. It's odd to see so many people acting like it would be some big consequence here.
This math only works if you somehow convince yourself that the Astros won because of this cheating. Yes it's bad and I'm glad they got punished but the optics are worse than the benefits they gained. You can institute this exact system for the orioles and they are still going to lose 100 games.
The real crime is that the owner emerges without a scratch, but this is the way it goes I guess.
Because it's typically done for ridiculous reasons in the NCAA that people don't agree with.
The series came down to a handful of at bats. Yes they won because of cheating.
I think you are downplaying this. Knowing exactly what pitch is coming is a huge advantage.
Massive. If you know fastball is coming, you are at such a huge advantage.
You already have timing pegged, which is a gigantic part of a pitcher's arsenal. Plus break! Just need to put your bat in the right place. Obviously not easy, but shit, baseball is SO hard anyway.
Saying it doesn't make it true, nobody knows. There are plenty of players that admit that getting signs from second base hindered them at the plate and preferred not to know them. The appearance of impropriety is the real problem, but to pretend like the Astros could not have won without this doesn't really make sense, their performance in away games is good evidence for this.
My team was knocked out of the playoffs by the Astros in 2017, but they were the better team.
If there was a rampant cheating scandal in the NCAA... I'm not talking about recruiting or paying a player, I'm talking like you stole the other team's playbook or bugged the locker room, or something similar that gave them a competitive advantage on the field, I wouldn't argue about vacating a title, and really nobody should. At all. When it's near the death penalty because someone unaffiliated with the school gave Reggie Bush's parents a car and a house, well, yeah, I'm going to call foul especially with the haphazard way they penalize programs.
Guess you didn't read the report at all. Only applicable to home games only for 2017 season and part of 2018 season. The players stopped doing it because they didn't find it effective. Astros had a better away record than home record in 2017. This is a fair punishment.
Manfred probably wanted to go down harder financially on the Astros but rules cap it at $5 mil.
I think people would here too. Revoking the title + banning for life + hefty fines though... I think people would be fine with those 3 together.
Once the investigation is complete, Boone needs to go as well. His 2003 home run should be vacated.
A joke of a punishment. If Manfred was too scared to strip them of a title, then he should have, at a minimum: extended the loss of draft picks to five years, imposed restrictions / sanctions on the international market similar to what he did to the Braves, handed out one-season suspensions to all players involved, and banned Hinch and Luhnow for life. As it is, this is nothing but a slap on the wrist for them.
The statement says discipline would be difficult and impractical, which isn't wrong. You need to field a professional baseball team in 2020.
then maybe the team should've acted professional instead of cheating
They banned the individuals who they informed would be held accountable if this occurred. The players were likely never going to be the end result. The MLBPA would also have a field day with it.
Fuck that is a slap on the wrist, MLB need to at least BAN these people but just 1 year suspension, what a joke. I would have love to see them vacate the World Series but that will probably never happen in professional sports, at least put an astrick on the championship. Shit they already is one in the record books. Fucking joke.
That graph appears to be a bit misleading. I think Foolish Baseball did a great job highlighting the scandal.
I understand the union would have had a field day, but the players should have been punished somehow. You can't talk about the integrity of the game and then have a whole team complicit in cheating. You could argue that some didn't use the signs, fine, but they ALL knew about it, I don't think that's even up for dispute. So I don't get why they can't at least have some nominal punishment.
There are probably legal aspects to stripping titles and banning players. They have a legally binding CBA and the MLBPA is a powerful union. There are limits to the amount they can punish. MLB just can't dish out whatever penalties they want.
The NCAA can do what they want because they do not have those restrictions and are all empowering. NCAA players have no power and very few legal rights.
The NCAA can do what they want because they do not have those restrictions and are all empowering. NCAA players have no power and very few legal rights.
I definitely agree that the players SHOULD be disciplined, but that would probably turn into a long battle that would easily end up in court. Manfred doesn't want that dragging on.
Maybe if it was circled around a couple of players MLB might be able to punish them, but not when it is the majority of a team.
It seems like offering amnesty to the players for all infractions other than lying was a key part of their investigation strategy.
