At 70 million Active Users Monthly, PSN is currently the biggest online gaming service

Oct 27, 2017
382
PSN has impressive MAUs but anyone who's logged into PSN that month (regardless of whether or not they pay for PS Plus) is counted, whereas Steam measures Monthly Active Players, only including those who have played games using their Steam Account during that month.
Do you have reporting policies for either company to support this statement?
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,587
Do you have reporting policies for either company to support this statement?
Sony reported their MAUs and their PS Plus subscriber numbers separately. Ina separate presentation released on the same day as these numbers were, Sony detailed that, in addition to 70 million Monthly Active Users (which are specifically measured by how many users engage with their online service by logging in, as with Microsoft), there were, at the time, 26.4 million PS Plus subscribers.
Steam doesn't give Monthly Active User numbers. Their last given number was 67 million Monthly Active Players, which they use over Monthly Active Users to make the distinction between those who have Steam installed and those who engage with the platform by playing the games. When reporting their numbers, it's how every other popular PC game service does the same - by specifying players instead of users.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
116
Based on personal knowledge, this is the generation Sony got its act together with respect to big data. They're going into the future poised tremendously well.
 
Oct 30, 2017
172
Would love to see a new SOCOM and would be amazingly happy with a new Warhawk
How about at least do a PS4 port of WH and KZ2 MP, for $29.99...That will sell a ton and will have a great online community. Those were some of the best MP experience last gen and deserve a port on PS4. Do it Sony!!!
 
Oct 27, 2017
382
Sony reported their MAUs and their PS Plus subscriber numbers separately. Ina separate presentation released on the same day as these numbers were, Sony detailed that, in addition to 70 million Monthly Active Users (which are specifically measured by how many users engage with their online service by logging in, as with Microsoft), there were, at the time, 26.4 million PS Plus subscribers.
Steam doesn't give Monthly Active User numbers. Their last given number was 67 million Monthly Active Players, which they use over Monthly Active Users to make the distinction between those who have Steam installed and those who engage with the platform by playing the games. When reporting their numbers, it's how every other popular PC game service does the same - by specifying players instead of users.
Sony's presentation did not define the term. Do you have Steam's definition of Active Players in a report?
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,587
The presentation did not detail their definition of the term. Do you have Steam's definition of Active Players in a report?
These two terms are used by companies with different service models, and both unique terms are widely understood to have distinct meanings of their own. You can look into their usage if you'd like;

Monthly active user
(wikipedia)
Monthly active user (google)

multimedia service platform holders like Microsoft and Sony (and many, many others) use logins to their service platforms (XBL, PSN) to gauge their MAUs, because ancillary OS and multimedia services are also core to their model. Game-oriented service platforms on PC and on consoles, on the other hand, report monthly active players instead, for the reasons I posted above. You can see this distinction in action on google:

Monthly active player (google)


Steam, likewise, reports monthly active players as opposed to monthly active users:

(If you're wondering, 'peak concurrent users', as corroborated by SteamCharts and SteamSpy, refers to the number of users who are 'online' and using Steam, and not the number of concurrent users who are playing games)
 
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Oct 27, 2017
382
These two terms are used by companies with different service models, and both unique terms are widely understood to have distinct meanings of their own. You can look into their usage if you'd like;

Monthly active user
(wikipedia)
Monthly active user (google)

multimedia service platform holders like Microsoft and Sony (and many, many others) use logins to their service platforms (XBL, PSN) to gauge their MAUs, because ancillary OS and multimedia services are also core to their model. Game-oriented service platforms on PC and on consoles, on the other hand, report monthly active players instead, for the reasons I posted above. You can see this distinction in action on google:

Monthly active player (google)


and as for Steam:
There is nothing in the google search that defines "monthly active player" as distinct from "monthly active user", even within the only link that mentions steam.

This slide you quoted also does not define "monthly active player" as different.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,587
There is nothing in the google link that defines "monthly active player" as distinct from "monthly active user", even within the only link that mentions steam.

This slide you quoted also does not define "monthly active player" as different.
The distinction is pretty clear if you examine which companies report 'monthly active users' and which companies report 'monthly active players'. I tried to make this distinction clear for you in my above post, which you've chosen to gloss over. It is not hard to infer the meaning of monthly active player.

However, it's also pretty clear that you're only participating in this discussion and in this thread to muddy the waters of discussion. You've got an apparent inclination to dispute posts which do not conform to the most positive possible outlook on Sony's decisions and successes, and it's pretty transparent here. After all, you didn't come into this discussion with any intent, beyond challenging me for proof of terms whose difference in context in meaning is obvious and easily self-verified. You've shown no interest in investigating this matter for yourself. You've shown no interest in gathering enough information on your own to actually challenge my claims from an informed perspective. You haven't introduced any information to challenge my claims. You've simply reiterated that you can't discern the truth from my explanation to you, as though I haven't supplied you and any onlookers with all of the necessary information with which to determine that yourself.

So why are you so insistent on suggesting otherwise?
What do you believe is Sony's criteria for determining monthly active users, if not those which conform to the meaning of the term and which every like multimedia platform, including Sony's direct competitor in the console space, utilizes for their count?
What do you believe is Steam's criteria for determining monthly active players, as though it's any different from the sole context in which that specific term is used elsewhere in reporting numbers?
Do you have a position on this matter that you're ready to express, or are you just here to challenge those which I have already explained to you, on the sole basis that there's no wikipedia page for a seperate term that has a clear definition and alternate usage?
What's your MO?
 
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Oct 27, 2017
382
The distinction is pretty clear if you examine which companies report 'monthly active users' and which companies report 'monthly active players'. I tried to make this distinction clear for you in my above post, which you've chosen to gloss over. It is not hard to infer the meaning of monthly active player.

However, it's also pretty clear that you're only participating in this discussion and in this thread to muddy the waters of discussion. You've got an apparent inclination to dispute posts which do not conform to the most positive possible outlook on Sony's decisions and successes, and it's pretty transparent here. After all, you didn't come into this discussion with any intent, beyond challenging me for proof of terms whose difference in context in meaning is obvious and easily self-verified. You've shown no interest in investigating this matter for yourself. You've shown no interest in gathering enough information on your own to actually challenge my claims from an informed perspective. You haven't introduced any information to challenge my claims. You've simply reiterated that you can't discern the truth from my explanation to you, as though I haven't supplied you and any onlookers with all of the necessary information with which to determine that yourself.

So why are you so insistent on suggesting otherwise? What's your MO?
I am merely questioning whether the distinction is real or something you have made up, which seems to be the case the more we interact. I have examined each link that you've provided, by the way, as can anyone else.

Steam simply used a different word, but there has been nothing to suggest that they use the term differently than anyone else.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,587
I am merely questioning whether the distinction is real or something you have made up, which seems to be the case the more we interact.

Steam simply used a different word, but there has been nothing to suggest that they use the term differently than anyone else.
There is much to suggest that Valve use the term "Monthly Active Player" in line with every other game-centric, non-multimedia platform holder who reports their numbers using the term "Monthly Active Player" specifically instead of "Monthly Active User". That is why I supplied you with all the necessary information with which to come to understand that. To suggest otherwise, would be to suggest that Steam defrauds their shareholders and lies to the entire gaming industry, by using specific terminology to refer to logged-in users that's only used by platform holders who operate under a game-specific model, where gaming represents the whole of a user's activity and engagement, to refer specifically to the number of users who have played a game on their service.

I ask again:

What do you believe is Sony's criteria for determining monthly active users, if not those which conform to the meaning of the term and which every like multimedia platform, including Sony's direct competitor in the console space, utilizes for their count?
What do you believe is Steam's criteria for determining monthly active players, as though it's any different from the sole context in which that specific term is used elsewhere in reporting numbers?
Do you have a position on this matter that you're ready to express, or are you just here to challenge those which I have already explained to you, on the sole basis that there's no wikipedia page for a seperate term that has a clear definition and alternate usage?
What's your MO?
You're being very disingenuous but it's not convincing, and going by how you've contributed to this discussion, your input in this one and in others is downright suspect.
 
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Oct 31, 2017
1,703
This.

How the game hasn't made a come back is beyond me, especially considering the types of games that are super popular right now.

#bringbackwarhawk
I really don’t understand how it isnt in Sony plans.

Wasnt Warhawk on the PS3 a confortable success?
 
Oct 30, 2017
172
So MS moved to MAUs to not disclose the XB sale numbers as it has been lagging behind PS, what metric will they use now since PS MAUs > XB MAUs?
 
Oct 27, 2017
382
There is much to suggest that Valve use the term "Monthly Active Player" in line with every other game-centric, non-multimedia platform holder who reports their numbers using the term "Monthly Active Player" specifically instead of "Monthly Active User". That is why I supplied you with all the necessary information with which to come to understand that. To suggest otherwise, would be to suggest that Steam defrauds their shareholders and lies to the entire gaming industry, by using specific terminology to refer to logged-in users that's only used by platform holders who operate under a game-specific model, where gaming represents the whole of a user's activity and engagement, to refer specifically to the number of users who have played a game on their service.

I ask again:


You're being very disingenuous but it's not convincing, and going by how you've contributed to this discussion, your input in this one and in others is downright suspect.
There is no need to resort to personal attacks.

The terms "users" or "players" of a gaming service are easily interchangeable in the common sense. You're the one challenging Business Insider's use of the terms, not me. Yet you haven't been able to provide even a fine print that Steam reports differently than all other online gaming platforms.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,587
There is no need to resort to personal attacks.

The terms "users" or "players" of a gaming service are easily interchangeable in the common sense. You're the one challenging Business Insider's use of the terms, not me. Yet you haven't been able to provide even a fine print that Steam reports differently than all other online gaming platforms.
You are unusually committed to your disingenuous argumentative tactics. Every company that reports "Monthly Active Players" specifically, as per google, is clearly referring specifically to the number of players. I have demonstrated this, and how those terms aren't interchangeable and aren't used by these companies as though they are, and you have hand waved all of this aside in favor of your specific goalposts. And so I'm going to put you on my ignore list.
 

Soony Xbone Uhh

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,162
Lol Solid is right.
There is also monthly active devices, a term Microsoft does use to present their active Windows 10 installbase.
Why? Because many users have a Laptop at home, an Xbox One, too and use a Windows PC at work. 3 devices 1 User.

And it makes sense for Xbox Live and PSN to count users and not players, as 50% of time spent is video consumption.

I just disagree that counting players makes Steam bigger. I just don't see a big non player user base on Steam. What is there to do? Maybe a few million more, but nothing major different.
 
Oct 28, 2017
564
Florida
So MS moved to MAUs to not disclose the XB sale numbers as it has been lagging behind PS, what metric will they use now since PS MAUs > XB MAUs?
While there is a nugget a truth in that. MAU, even outside of gaming has been a more important indicator for a lot of services/companies. I don't think they're as focused on Sony as we think and they are much more interested in Apple/Google numbers. Especially when it comes to users with card info on file.
 

Beef Stallmer

Banned
Member
Oct 27, 2017
882
So MS moved to MAUs to not disclose the XB sale numbers as it has been lagging behind PS, what metric will they use now since PS MAUs > XB MAUs?
PPC; Platform Proximity Customer
A PPC is a customer that is in proximity of the platform. He/she does not have a (free) live account, yet, but he/she could sign up at any point because there are ads in the products. Eventually they will count all Office 360, Skype users as well as logged in windows 10 users, but they add them once every x time. Like they will say "PPC is now the most important platform measurement, and we are nearing 100 million" (windows 10 logged in users without live)..
The next year: "we are extremely proud to announce that PPC is up at least 40% compared to last year. This signifies an industry defying PPC increase" (they added office 360 users)
Next quarter "these past months saw PPC at an all time high. 170 million PPC" (Skype subscribers added).
And the next year: "MS is the first company to break 200 million PPC, that is more than any other company in the entertainment industry, and we will not stop here!"
I expect something like that. So people who use a MS product that have seen a clickable XBL link at least once > PPC.
Sony PPC and Nintendo PPC will be a lot lower, unless Sony counts people who watch the Champions League, but at that point, begun, the PPC-wars has.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,533
The article here:

https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/7/...t=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

Clearly states that ps4 sold 70 million ps4 and 2million psvr. Nothing about psn
This thread is about Monthly Active Users. No console or even platform or service has ever had 100% of it's users active in a given month. By probability that simply is not going to happen. Simple logic should make it clear that this is refering to PSN - all services that involve PSN, whether consoles, handhelds, mobile, PC etc - if they use it even once, it counts for that month.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,533
That's fucking insane.

Bigger than steam is shocking
It isn't shocking - it's the other way around - PSN has always been larger and Steam is catching up at a bizarre rate

This data is old and more so, Steam has not been bigger than PSN. It most likely has been in terms of concurrent and total accounts at this point vs the last numbers that were shown for those years back - but not in monthly active users that we are aware of.

What is quite funny here is that it is all about perspective - the news story months back with the exact same numbers was that Steam was about to over take PSN due to its ever increasing growth:

Just to highlight the change - the concurrent users was 8.4 million in 2015, 14 million at the beginning of 2017 and is up to almost 18 million this week. The growth is nuts, and more up to date stats would be interesting to say the least, but this really goes to show how context is everything.
 
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ZhugeEX

诸葛亮 - 卧龙
Administrator
Oct 24, 2017
2,819
Eh. Steam is now larger. Which isn't surprising. But PSN is the largest in terms of console.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,893
QLD, Australia
PPC; Platform Proximity Customer
A PPC is a customer that is in proximity of the platform. He/she does not have a (free) live account, yet, but he/she could sign up at any point because there are ads in the products. Eventually they will count all Office 360, Skype users as well as logged in windows 10 users, but they add them once every x time. Like they will say "PPC is now the most important platform measurement, and we are nearing 100 million" (windows 10 logged in users without live)..
The next year: "we are extremely proud to announce that PPC is up at least 40% compared to last year. This signifies an industry defying PPC increase" (they added office 360 users)
Next quarter "these past months saw PPC at an all time high. 170 million PPC" (Skype subscribers added).
And the next year: "MS is the first company to break 200 million PPC, that is more than any other company in the entertainment industry, and we will not stop here!"
I expect something like that. So people who use a MS product that have seen a clickable XBL link at least once > PPC.
Sony PPC and Nintendo PPC will be a lot lower, unless Sony counts people who watch the Champions League, but at that point, begun, the PPC-wars has.
That's so good I checked that it isn't an actual IRL metric yet.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,198
Bring back the whole damn squad

MAG, Warhawk, Twisted Metal PS3, SOCOM Confrontation, Killzone 2
I'm surprised to see so much MAG love today. I saw someone mention it in another thread. I still have daydreams about that game. I loved it, Socom, Twisted... actually, all the games you listed. Warhawk would be insane.