Allegedly they were banning players for 30days for just saying slava ukraine.
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Atomic Heart Interview With Game Director
- Thread starter deadlygantz
- Start date
Allegedly they were banning players for 30days for just saying slava ukraine.
I was being sarcastic, but I very much agree with you. I don't think banning discussions about the game is the way to go and at the same time meta-discussions should also NOT be banned. It's a legitimate discussion to be had when developers of a game is problematic. Every thread about the thread should have threadmarks.
I can say the same. If you don't want to buy the game, go ahead and boycott it. You don't have to try to convince a bunch of strangers on the internet to pat you on the back for your brave decision to not buy a game. You only need to convince yourself. You can do those mental gymnastics in private. No one wants to see that.I thought that invoking the ol "there's no ethical consumption under capitalism" chestnut to attempt to justify never taking action, escape guilt, judgment, responsibility and to encourage inaction was a bad look. But now people are using this whataboutism as a gotcha to actively attack anyone who opts to stand in solidarity with people against an injustice, attempting to paint that as being unreasonable. That's some ugly shit.
Like, if you want to buy the game, go ahead and buy it. You don't have to try to convince a bunch of strangers on the internet to pat you on the back for your brave decision to abscond with morality and personal responsibility. You only need to convince yourself. You can do those mental gymnastics in private. No one wants to see that.
"No ethical consumption" is true in the sense that it is unreasonable to expect any one person to be aware of, much less take on everything everywhere all at once all the time. But what's perhaps equally unreasonable, is wielding it as a weapon against anyone who does decide to take on something. Don't shit on people trying to improve society somewhat. Instead, go with what you disingenuously claim to believe in more strongly than opposing terrorism, genocide, war crimes, rape, murder, and don't support those Call of Dutys or "any other game."
That's from ages ago by the way. EA stopped paying for gun licenses a decade ago.
/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/14329056/handgun-pistol-SIG-pro-Wikimedia.1419979532.jpg)
EA will no longer pay gun makers for the right to depict weapons in games
Company distances itself from assault weapons makers, but plans to continue featuring guns without a licensewww.theverge.com
Googling some more, other publishers followed suit.
What baffles me is seeing so many people asking for the ban of discussions about games like this. I can understand the boycott, especially for ukrainians. What I can't understand is trying to act like the game doesn't exist, wanting to even ban the mention of it.
It's also kind of hurtful as an arab seeing this kind of response is only used against Russia (and not even against Russia for how they helped destroy Syria, only for what they are doing in Ukraine) and nothing is said against the US for how they financed terrorists, invaded and completely destroyed our countries for decades, or Israel and it's apartheid regime against palestinians, or Saudi Arabia for what they've done not only in Yemen, but in the whole region by funding wahabist groups.
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Because like i said before its about consistency. You cant ban some games and others are okay. Its like saying we dont agree with terfs and homphobes and bigots and racists and anyone who makes that kind of media is banned here, but we do provide promotion and a space for a company who have indirect support from a tyrannical goverment and profits go to said goverment killing inoccent people and whos game promotes restoration of the soviet union.
So say discussion is allowed for every game but with a warning or make a seperate section in this forum for those discussion or just ban it straight out.
Then I stand corrected. My bad.
Doesn't take away that everything surrounding this game is shady and should be investigated more.
I was definitely interested in the title the more I saw of it, until I learned more and more about it. This is why we need good investigative journalism, to hold people to account and make things better.
I think maybe this will get me banned but please hear me out:
I see lot of people calling to boycott this game as it is somehow linked to the Russian state or war (a barbarian war btw that is killing innocents and especially destroying the future of millions of kids and putting the whole region in a very bad shape for decades)
BUT:
Why we I don't (and did not) see people calling to boycott games and movies linked to the US military (or that US military will collect royalties from them) the army that destroyed countries, killed thousands and led to the death of more. multiple countries including mine were harmed by the action of the US and Nato militaries and their governments. You don't see lot of people calling china out or the games coming from China that are usually has the CCP hands somewhere. Same goes for Israel who for multiple times killed innocent people still stealing lands and oppressing them.
This is not a whataboutism (I am not Russian and I don't sympathise with their barbaric actions in Ukraine).
I see lot of people calling to boycott this game as it is somehow linked to the Russian state or war (a barbarian war btw that is killing innocents and especially destroying the future of millions of kids and putting the whole region in a very bad shape for decades)
BUT:
Why we I don't (and did not) see people calling to boycott games and movies linked to the US military (or that US military will collect royalties from them) the army that destroyed countries, killed thousands and led to the death of more. multiple countries including mine were harmed by the action of the US and Nato militaries and their governments. You don't see lot of people calling china out or the games coming from China that are usually has the CCP hands somewhere. Same goes for Israel who for multiple times killed innocent people still stealing lands and oppressing them.
This is not a whataboutism (I am not Russian and I don't sympathise with their barbaric actions in Ukraine).
Wasn't that video already debunked by someone in the other thread:
I wouldn't fault anyone if they feel uncomfortable to buy the game. But banning it due to half-truths and conjecture doesn't seem like a healthy strategy.
I wouldn't fault anyone if they feel uncomfortable to buy the game. But banning it due to half-truths and conjecture doesn't seem like a healthy strategy.
Well, I personally would like this game and specially their devs ousted and banned, but I understand that due to personal reasons I'm rather vehemently pro-Ukraine and anti-RF, so I would abide with a compromise.
Just wait until you learn what western countries do with your tax dollars.
I will not begrudge anybody for not buying the game obviously but this blanket "everything Russian is bad and every Russian that doesn't publicly march against Putin is a suspected war supporter" is really strange.
I will not begrudge anybody for not buying the game obviously but this blanket "everything Russian is bad and every Russian that doesn't publicly march against Putin is a suspected war supporter" is really strange.
I don't want to support anyone who supports Russia. Does this developer support it? They didn't officially announce it, but here are some facts:
1. There are obvious signs that the investors and people profiting from this game are tied to russian oligarchs and Gazprom.
2. The game's themes are pro-ussr, pro-kgb and overall glorifies russian army.
3. The developer refuses to do any comment on their politics and has done or said nothing in support of Ukraine.
There is little doubt about their position here imo.
I don't want to ban discussions on this game, but it would be nice if there was a notice on these threads documenting all these issues so that people here could make their minds.
1. There are obvious signs that the investors and people profiting from this game are tied to russian oligarchs and Gazprom.
2. The game's themes are pro-ussr, pro-kgb and overall glorifies russian army.
3. The developer refuses to do any comment on their politics and has done or said nothing in support of Ukraine.
There is little doubt about their position here imo.
I don't want to ban discussions on this game, but it would be nice if there was a notice on these threads documenting all these issues so that people here could make their minds.
Then they don't have to lie about their location. They're putting up a smokescreen and it's fucking shady
Studio and near all, or all, developers themselves did relocate as far as I know. Doesn't mean they brought all their relatives, other extended family, friends etc. with them. With shitstain like Putin you never know what he does if even slightly profilic entity starts to rail against him.
There are very wide reaching embargoes right now that this studio and publisher are manoevring around on the basis of a technicality. With direct links to oligarch money. This whataboutism is really misplaced.
There is no ethical consumption in our capitalist society. However, I think there is a clear difference between devs/publishers paying mandatory taxes to their government and a dev/publisher having much more direct funding and/or links to a government. When it comes to Atomic Heart, it's still a little unclear where the dev and publisher stand and what the links are, but overall it's a false equivalence in my opinion.
I see no evidence of that, and in fact see employees still being employed at other companies in moscow on their LinkedIn pages.
And where did you get that from? Granted, I haven't seen every trailer or read every interview, but I didn't get that impression at all.
The game is full of ussr symbolism and the main character is kgb officer. And ussr symbolics are very, very popular amongst hardcore russian war supporters.
I remember reading in a thread that they used a lot USSR symbols at their press events in countries where it's explicitly banned to do so.
Its confusing if you're not here everyday to know whats up.
I was looking for the review thread of 'we dont speak its name' game for a good while until i saw the sticky.
We should just go the Disney way and have a big ass attachment on every sketchy ethics game and keep it open for discussion.
Or else you get stuff like this.
The wizard game was a very unique situation.
That should not be the norm for games going forward, i'm all for putting a disclaimer in the eventual OT, but if we start banning games for their investors, that's going to a open up a shit ton of other games to being banned as well. The whole "no ethical consumption under capitalism" thing means most of what we consume unfortunately will be funding someone else's harm.
That should not be the norm for games going forward, i'm all for putting a disclaimer in the eventual OT, but if we start banning games for their investors, that's going to a open up a shit ton of other games to being banned as well. The whole "no ethical consumption under capitalism" thing means most of what we consume unfortunately will be funding someone else's harm.
I don't think people need another reason than Russia's genocidal war against Ukraine.
The game is not only bound to attract scrutiny due to it's investors but also the Soviet imagery it plays with imo as several people have already pointed out that it's understandably something that can be problematic for people
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Couldn't agree more.
The game takes place in an alternative past ussr, and it's use of "symbolism" is limited to superficial aesthetics backdrop for robot shooting. It's no more "pro-ussr" than Black Ops Cold War or Singularity. The same goes for the main character. He's a kgb officer because he needs to shoot things, that doesn't make the game "pro-kgb". And I have no idea how any of this "overall glorifies russian army".
They used ussr symbols on their press event in Moscow, yes, but that supposed to be a stylized in-universe event. Like, you understand that "Comrade, welcome to the great robotic future!" or whatever it was is an in-universe propaganda flavor text and not an actual statement from the devs about ussr, right?
If this game ends up getting an OT and a further platform for discussion after Cyberpunk and Hogwarts were nuked off the site, then that sends a very clear message about what issues are considered issues and which are not.
I think moderation that leads to censorship isn't the way, personally. Moderators should moderate the conversation, let us discuss the TERF for those who want, and let us discuss the game too. Every game has dark funding behind it, didn't we have a thread about how all consoles use slave labor? If we censor a little, we should censor a lot. Or have clear guidelines on what is allowed or not.
But I still personally think every discussion is allowed, people can discuss a video game, others can discuss the darkness behind the developers, and moderators make sure everyone discussing behaves civilly. Don't prevent the discussion. I live Era but it has slowly become over-moderated I have felt this past year or two.
But I still personally think every discussion is allowed, people can discuss a video game, others can discuss the darkness behind the developers, and moderators make sure everyone discussing behaves civilly. Don't prevent the discussion. I live Era but it has slowly become over-moderated I have felt this past year or two.
I think it's absolutely fine to use problematic and negative themes in art if there is a point to be made, but I have seen nothing that there is anything like it. All I see is "Ussr symbols and heritage is cool! I am a kgb officer which makes me cool!".
The statement that it glorifies russian army may be a bit of a stretch in other situations, but now there are these facts: 1) An active war is happening against Ukraine, 2) Developer is allegedly supporting Russia and does nothing to debunk that , 3) The ussr idea and symbolics are worshiped by hardcore war promoters.
It's not happening in a vacuum and you can't dismiss these connections.
Even if you are right, all this feels like arguing over semantics when there is a bigger picture to be seen.
The war in Ukraine deserves all empathy and Ukrainians -- locals, displaced people and diaspora -- deserve all support they can get. So good on people for thinking about it when it's not impinging on your lifestyles. Also, way cool that Advance Wars is FINALLY coming out, am I right? The war must be over. Let's have our fun again!!! I do find the selective presumption of evildoing when it comes to anything Russian quite off-putting -- especially when it hinges on such weakly defined points that are seemingly debunked in this very thread, and which, if extrapolated, paint everything with an amoral taint. If the devs are actually in support of the war, screw them up and down -- absolutely. Russia the state is an evil institution, but the lack of perspective sometimes has a flavor of Eastern European negative bias that I've tasted long before there was any war or illegal occupation. Comparing this to the JKR issue and trying to cast a negative light about "priorities" is also foul. Seriously? I saw some post, I think it was in the Constructive Community Talk thread or whatever, about how harsh it was that people here regualrly condemn everyone living in US "red" states, and I really sympathize. Many paint with a broad brush, assume the worst, and have little appreciation for immobility. Guess what, sometimes economic conditions and/or not having a desirable passport means you're fucking stuck. That sucks. Doesn't make you evil though. I don't have the emotional bandwidth to really argue about this any further after having held my tongue for a long time, so I'll leave it at this.
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Could not agree more
This is what I mean; two out of your three statements are true. A lot of half-truths and conjecture to create a narrative that is built on a house of cards. The questionable twitter threads and videos people are reposting here aren't helping either. It's fine, welcome even, to highlight concerns surrounding this game. But I also see people are inflating these concerns with hot air in order to get all discussion surrounding this game banned without having an awkward discussion about other, more prominent, games and developers.
Saying something is a "whataboutism" is used too much as a blanket reaction to any comparison at all.
So maybe you could take your sly bigotry to places that allow it rather than doing it here?
You literally said "Just wait until you learn what western countries do with your tax dollars". That is not a critical comparison, that is "Something in this pile of other things is probably bad too". Its the perfect example of whataboutism.
I understand the argument about wanting this game banned, but all of this 'well, we banned that other game, so we should ban every game' is getting major side-eye. You can make have perfectly good reasoning for why you think we shouldn't talk about this game without trying to make it about the perfectly legitimate reasoning why Hogwarts was banned.
I don't see how my concerns are "built on a house of cards", I provided pretty solid arguments. Like any statement it can pre proven wrong and if emerges that developers are on Ukraine side and that the game does not glorify ussr I will be happy about it. So far none of it has been debunked.
I am against banning discussion on games, I am only here so that people know the problems with this game. Let people decide themselves if they want to support this game.
I'm not sure I can fault Russian artists and developers for not condemning Russia or for taking state-connected cash.
It's very common for developers to take cash and investments from their country or state - and am aware that it's hardly like they are free to criticize their government.
Guess it depends on the message of the game - and if that is objectionable or not. Or if there's specific anti-ukraine statements from them.
It's very common for developers to take cash and investments from their country or state - and am aware that it's hardly like they are free to criticize their government.
Guess it depends on the message of the game - and if that is objectionable or not. Or if there's specific anti-ukraine statements from them.
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might as well ban the game, every thread on it is just gonna be this anyway
USSR symbols are featured in a game set in an ... alternate history USSR? Oh dear, then I fear the developers have indeed missed the mark. It's obvious the game should be using iconography from Imperial Tsarist Russia instead. What a gaff.
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At this point, yeah, getting major flashbacks to Cyberpunk discussions. What's the point in allowing discussion of a game when it stands no chance of actually being discussed without derailment?
Makes more sense to just do the same here as they did with Hogwarts.
Bigotry?
I am asking for consistency. I have no issue with the other game being banned if that's what the mod team decided, but that moderation should be applied consistently to all other games which are applicable. Atomic Heart is one of them.
Like I said, the mod team here have set a precedent. A very VERY definite 'line in the sand' in the pinned post statement. Other games cross that line also, for their own reasons. In this case, funding actual genocide.
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Again, not in vacuum. The game seems to be glorifying ussr and in current times it's more than enough to be described as problematic.
A lot of the problem on both sides of this argument is consistency. If you're gonna ban some games for problematic elements, then you'll be expected to do it for all others. But that will just lead to what mocoworm said earlier.
Conversely, I don't see why some are so eager to get this game banned due to it's Russian influence. They announced this game in 2018/19, well before the Ukraine war. It just feels shallow to me when people get up in arms over some controversy, but not similar other ones. It reeks of recency bias for the war.
I don't thing the imagery is condoning the USSR, either. People playing a WWII game aren't gonna complain about Nazi swasticas in a German setting, are they? No one's played the game yet, but the story seems to be going in the Bioshock direction. Surely not many people coming away from Bioshock would think Objectivism is peachy. The whole game was a deconstruction of that philosophy. I wouldn't be surprised if AH did something similar with the USSR.
Conversely, I don't see why some are so eager to get this game banned due to it's Russian influence. They announced this game in 2018/19, well before the Ukraine war. It just feels shallow to me when people get up in arms over some controversy, but not similar other ones. It reeks of recency bias for the war.
I don't thing the imagery is condoning the USSR, either. People playing a WWII game aren't gonna complain about Nazi swasticas in a German setting, are they? No one's played the game yet, but the story seems to be going in the Bioshock direction. Surely not many people coming away from Bioshock would think Objectivism is peachy. The whole game was a deconstruction of that philosophy. I wouldn't be surprised if AH did something similar with the USSR.
If you want to stay on the cautious side, good. But while none of your claims have been debunked, none of them have been proven true either. You can't just point at a bit of smoke here and there to argue that everything is on fire. And that leads to absurd claims like here below.
Yes, there are some legitimate concerns surrounding the game's financing. But if you are going to make the claim that Mundfish (and by extension, anyone buying the game) is funding actual genocide, you better have some really good receipts handy.
Like I said, the mod team here have set a precedent. A very VERY definite 'line in the sand' in the pinned post statement. Other games cross that line also, for their own reasons. In this case, funding actual genocide.
While you may have meant it like that it certainly didn't come across that way from the poster I actually quoted, judging also by their previous posts. I don't think it's helpful to compare causes of a ban on discussion in that way, it just comes across as being salty at the perfectly valid decision that was made.
staff post - stay on topic
Official Staff Communication
Derailing threads to discuss what pieces of media you want moderation to ban is not allowed. Any further digressions will result in bans. If you want to discuss moderation policies in this area, please feel free to submit a ticket. This is also the remedy if you wish to appeal your ban for ignoring this post. Knock it off, please.
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User Banned (5 Days): Breaking site-wide staff post regarding advocation for banning content
I concur. And if ResetEra can ban that wizard terf game, ban this one as well, fuck em.
I could've sworn I saw someone post a twitter thread about how they did one of those press events in Sweden where it's illegal to have ussr symbols. But I can't find it so I'll assume it's bad info, sorry about that.
I would really hate to see era become a place where what we are and aren't allowed to discuss is chosen for us on a consistent basis. No game is perfect, no company is perfect, and people are not perfect. If you dig deep enough you can find problems with the people and investors that are attached to just about every project.