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Attack on Titan (Shingeki no Kyojin) manga SPOILERS thread | Enter the Basement

RecRoulette

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,049
Downside of this chapter is that we're probably getting one more chapter in THE GATE, with the ending back in whatever the actual world looks like now.

Eren's got fucking shook when he touched Historia's hand because he saw Grisha tell Zeke to stop him. Holy fuck

Man if he sticks this landing wooo (it will be hard to do it as it is kinda crazy bullshit but somehow he's making it work).
He's a fucking magician. It's like "There's no way he's gonna make this work- FUCK HE MADE IT WORK"
 
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RecRoulette

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,049
I have to get this speculation out of my system

Normal brain: Eren controlled Grisha to cause the events leading to this point, Grisha begs Zeke to stop him before it's too late. Eren must stop Ymir from foiling his plan

Big brain: IT'S ALREADY TOO LATE Eren has already triggered the rumbling, and these memories are what causes Grisha to convince Zeke to stop him. Eren triggers the Rumbling because the "vision of freedom" he saw was the rumbling and his enemies dying.

Enlightened brain: Eren triggers the rumbling and the consequences are far worse than he could imagine, Mikasa and Armin die in the process. Eren manipulates the memories of the past so that Grisha convinces Zeke to stop himself from triggering the rumbling to save his friends

Galaxy brain: It is chapter 4, it was always chapter 4. Everything past that was just the future Eren could see. The visions of the future have convinced Eren to sacrifice himself to save Armin, putting a stop to the nightmare before it can truly begin.

Edit: Have to admit, I thought my speculation was crazy but there are folks out there tying this into their speculations and they're the real heroes

 
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Kewlmyc

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
12,446
I really don't like time travel in stories, because now I'm super confused. Gonna sleep on it then read the chapter again.
 

TiC

Member
Jul 12, 2019
61
I'm confused about the latest chapter, like completely lost. Could someone explain it to me like I'm 5?
 

Dark Knight

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,381
I love how we now know there is a single moment/event that made Eren become punished Eren. It explains the shift in his character from that point on so well.
 

Dark Knight

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,381
I'm confused about the latest chapter, like completely lost. Could someone explain it to me like I'm 5?
The Attack Titan is special and has access to future memories because of this event we are witnessing right now. All of the Attack Titans that existed had access to these paths BECAUSE of Eren.
 

Ricelord

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,498
I really wanted to know why Grisha change his mind about stopping eren and forcing eren to eat him.
 

Aly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,241
My mind is full of what right now. Gonna take a while to process all of this.
 

Dark Knight

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,381
So the "Vanilla" Attack Titan, every holder before Eren, didn't have any special ability?
They all had the ability that Eren would seed in the Coordinate at the current point in time. The AT might just be a strong-ass fighter titan, but its "pursuing freedom" angle is most likely a result of Eren's influence. The Attack Titan's nature is Eren's nature because of what is happening right now.

Why not the monkey titan as well? Zeke also reached the paths.

Is it because Eren has the coordinate?
I think so. Because he's a titan that holds the Founding as well, and got access to the Coordinate point in this instance. He's basically broadcasted memories through the paths to all the Attack Titans before him inside the Coordinate, granting the Attack Titan line throughout history the ability to see future events and because of that he has influenced past events, like Grisha murdering the royal family.

Only thing I'm not quite sure about is how Eren is able to see a bit further into the future in terms of the upcoming event/fate they're talking about now. We will probably get that last puzzle piece by the end of the story.
 

UltraGunner

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,757
Los Angeles, CA
You mean to tell me that in the four years they've known each other Historia and Eren never actually physically touched? Like not even accidentally bumped elbows while waiting in the mess hall?
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,706
San Jose
I really wanted to know why Grisha change his mind about stopping eren and forcing eren to eat him.
This is also where I'm at, it feels like we have all the pieces EXCEPT this one, which I'm guessing we'll be shown next month

when eren touches "ymir" (since I guess technically while it should totally be her, we still don't know for sure

additionally, while a stretch I wouldn't be surprised since we've gone full STANDO TIME POWERS, that perhaps the devil is JUST eren, and Eren sets this whole thing off


That hood yo, if Eren sets this WHOLE thing off and is ACTUALLY "the devil?"

PHEW son, can't handle all these bamboozles

You mean to tell me that in the four years they've known each other Historia and Eren never actually physically touched? Like not even accidentally bumped elbows while waiting in the mess hall?
That's lewd how dare you
 
Oct 27, 2017
763
Don't know if such a thing is even possible, but I'm on both teams #FuckZeke and #FuckEren. The former wishes to exterminate his own race, the latter likely wishes to eradicate everyone but his own race.
 

toutoune134

Member
Nov 7, 2017
225
You mean to tell me that in the four years they've known each other Historia and Eren never actually physically touched? Like not even accidentally bumped elbows while waiting in the mess hall?
They touched more than once. In chapitre 70 Jean said that Eren tried to hold Historia's hand to unlock more memories but nothing happened.
 

BrickArts295

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,596
Me remembering that we're still in this time travel scenario and that people from the past may or may not see them:


That whole section about seeing themselves in the future:


Me taking a pause and processing time travel PATHS and those first panels from ch1:


Eren talking to Grisha:


Grisha:


The hug:


Finished the chapter:


You know what, I could use a good old Miura like hiatus right now, I still haven't recovered from the last chapter XD
 
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RecRoulette

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,049

Mankoto

Member
Oct 28, 2017
315
They all had the ability that Eren would seed in the Coordinate at the current point in time. The AT might just be a strong-ass fighter titan, but its "pursuing freedom" angle is most likely a result of Eren's influence. The Attack Titan's nature is Eren's nature because of what is happening right now.


I think so. Because he's a titan that holds the Founding as well, and got access to the Coordinate point in this instance. He's basically broadcasted memories through the paths to all the Attack Titans before him inside the Coordinate, granting the Attack Titan line throughout history the ability to see future events and because of that he has influenced past events, like Grisha murdering the royal family.

Only thing I'm not quite sure about is how Eren is able to see a bit further into the future in terms of the upcoming event/fate they're talking about now. We will probably get that last puzzle piece by the end of the story.
You answered your own mystery.
Holders of the Attack Titan are able to see the memories of both predecessor and successor. In this case Grisha saw the memories of Eren's future and Eren saw Grisha's memories of those memories. So it's not like he can see directly into it. It's just a matter of seeing if someone else did.
 

BumperLips

Member
Dec 2, 2017
196
I really wanted to know why Grisha change his mind about stopping eren and forcing eren to eat him.
Eren specifically mentioned that Zeke didn’t see the memory of him eating Grisha, so I’m assuming that at that point, Eren showed Grisha a future that 180’d Grisha from trying to stop Eren to allowing him to eat him.

And before, Zeke only saw Grisha pleading to stop Eren because at that point Grisha didn’t see that future.
 

Alec

Member
Oct 27, 2017
979
Louisville, KY
In order for this logic to work, everything that has happened must basically be predetermined. In that case, everyone (including Eren) is a slave to a prewritten destiny.

It is possible that Eren triggered the rumbling once already and what we are seeing is his second (or more) attempt at creating a better future.

Eren is probably trying to have Founder Ymir reborn to break this cycle. (Or Eren gets an ah-ha! moment at the end in which he realizes Ymir must be reborn in order to break this cycle.)

The way Eren looked at his younger self putting the scarf on Mikasa tells me he is still a good guy.
 

Hybris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,831
In order for this logic to work, everything that has happened must basically be predetermined. In that case, everyone (including Eren) is a slave to a prewritten destiny.

It is possible that Eren triggered the rumbling once already and what we are seeing is his second (or more) attempt at creating a better future.

Eren is probably trying to have Founder Ymir reborn to break this cycle. (Or Eren gets an ah-ha! moment at the end in which he realizes Ymir must be reborn in order to break this cycle.)

The way Eren looked at his younger self putting the scarf on Mikasa tells me he is still a good guy.
A popular interpretation of time travel stories is that everything is predetermined and there is no free will, so it could fit.

Side note, Dark on netflix is a really good show and deals with themes like this. This last chapter made me instantly think of it. I highly recommend it if you are interested in stuff like this.
 

Kegels

Member
Jan 24, 2019
1,674
Heres a reddit explanation that made thigns a little clearer for me

"through father memeories i saw my memories from the future"
It means that Attack Titan can see memories of its successors. However it can't see current holder future, that's why Eren under normal circumstances wouldn't have a chance to see his future memories.


Additionally, Founder Titan is able to see memories of his predecessors.


Combining these two abilities Eren could see Grisha's memories (founding titan power) when he was seeing Eren's future (attack titan power).


and some overall series speculation that lines up to me


Eren is the last Attack Titan. Because of this, his will has been carried through every single person to ever wield the titan.


Eren starts the chapter saying “I’ve only ever been me, nobody had ver influenced me”, in other words, he hasn’t had any memories of successors...so he himself had to create future memories for his past self to see and be motivated by.


This is why Grisha has apparently been under Eren’s control, this is why Kruger even lets some Eren memory slip in their wall talk.


“To you 2,000 years from now” could be future Eren’s words to the original Attack Titan.


This is just so crazy.
 
Oct 25, 2017
18,945
In order for this logic to work, everything that has happened must basically be predetermined. In that case, everyone (including Eren) is a slave to a prewritten destiny.

It is possible that Eren triggered the rumbling once already and what we are seeing is his second (or more) attempt at creating a better future.

Eren is probably trying to have Founder Ymir reborn to break this cycle. (Or Eren gets an ah-ha! moment at the end in which he realizes Ymir must be reborn in order to break this cycle.)

The way Eren looked at his younger self putting the scarf on Mikasa tells me he is still a good guy.

Causality son.
 

shergal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
83
Heres a reddit explanation that made thigns a little clearer for me

It means that Attack Titan can see memories of its successors. However it can't see current holder future, that's why Eren under normal circumstances wouldn't have a chance to see his future memories.


Additionally, Founder Titan is able to see memories of his predecessors.


Combining these two abilities Eren could see Grisha's memories (founding titan power) when he was seeing Eren's future (attack titan power).
Every titan holder can see memories from predecessors. What made Eren's case different was that he saw his own future actions in his father's memories, because unlike all other AT holders (probably) Eren got into the coordinate-land and was able to visit all these memories and even act on them (taking advantage of Grisha's AT). The timeloop is what changes things
 

TearablePuns

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,154
There’s a common misconception amongst people that the word protagonist means “good guy,” when it really doesn’t. Eren wouldn’t fit the antagonist definition because he is the main character that drives the story forward. If anything, Zeke is the antagonist in AoT because he has a goal that conflicts with Eren’s.

So, the Attack Titan, whose sole person is to keep advancing, has been moving toward Eren’s end goal the entire time. It’s the Titan that’s always meant to make it to the end: Eren’s plan for the future
 

Dark Knight

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,381
He uses the anime a lot as art influences, I don't know if that really carries over to plot elements.
We know he's changed the order in which some events are shown in the anime, like the subtle shot of Ymir being injected by Marleyans way before it was shown in the manga.

Also, I'm fairly certain he had Ymir's teeth corrected to be incisors in the flashbacks before she gets the Jaw power in the anime, where as in the manga the flashback Pure Ymir still had the sharp teeth in its first flashback appearance.

From what I've heard Isayama has a lot of input as to what happens in the anime to clean up the story and arrange some things differently. Pretty sure he was also at least partially responsible for how the Uprising arc was tightened up a bit in the show.
 

Kirblar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,602
So the "Vanilla" Attack Titan, every holder before Eren, didn't have any special ability?
The Attack Titan's ability is almost certainly hyper-regeneration, it's not been stated outright but Eren recreating his Titan form multiple times in a short period is something we haven't seen any other titan able to do. It's the berserker, it keeps coming back at you.
 

shergal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
83
I'm pretty sure the AT being able to see the future is correct; otherwise, how would Grisha be able to interact with Eren's "ghost" in these chapters? It's even more clear this chapter when he suddenly is able to see Zeke, and we get a shot of Eren standing right behind Grisha, implying that what Grisha keeps seeing is Eren's POV of his own memories. So he must have been able to see the future, as he said.

The timeloop aspect comes in when Eren, by being a "ghost" inside a memory (rather than just switching POVs as it usually happens when shifters see memories), is able to use this future-seeing ability to interact with Grisha through his own memories. Hence why he thanks Zeke for "opening up this path" by taking him inside Grisha's memories.