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Attack on Titan (Shingeki no Kyojin) manga SPOILERS thread | Enter the Basement

PogChamp

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
5,712
Holy fuck, I can't believe this.

The parallels between the Founding and the Attack titan are incredible. The Founding is influenced by the will of the past. The Attack is being influenced by the will of the future.

The same way we couldn't understand why King Reiss had swore an oath of non-violence, we also can't see what Eren's endgame is.
 

Alec

Member
Oct 27, 2017
979
Louisville, KY
King Reiss find a way to send his memories forward in order to influence people's will?

Eren find a way to send his memories backward in order to influence people's will?

...Eren find a way to influence King Reiss into sending his his memories forward? 7D Chess.
 

Kirblar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,602
King Reiss find a way to send his memories forward in order to influence people's will?

Eren find a way to send his memories backward in order to influence people's will?

...Eren find a way to influence King Reiss into sending his his memories forward? 7D Chess.
....I think you nailed it.
 

Tunichtgut

Member
Oct 27, 2017
790
Germany
I forgot a bit how Grisha got the Attack Titan in the first place, and lol, this is very interesting

Kruger then explained the history of the Founding Titan and King Fritz's vow with the Founding Titan renouncing all war. As he prepared to inject Grisha with a Titan serum, he urged him to find a family and complete his mission for the sake of Armin and Mikasa. Grisha was confused by these names, and Kruger admitted that he did not know whose memories he was seeing
 

Imp the Dimp

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,496
This type of storytelling reminds me a lot of Brandon Sanderson. I definitely recommed checking him out if you guys are fascinated by how clever Isayama is.
 

TearablePuns

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,154
I forgot a bit how Grisha got the Attack Titan in the first place, and lol, this is very interesting
Yeah, this much is obvious at least: Kruger was influenced a lot by Eren as well. It’s all there. But it’s still weird that Eren allowed Kruger to see that memory of Grisha. Maybe it’s a memory that leaked through as Eren was conditioning Kruger with other memories to have him complete his goals?
 

The Silver

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,829
At this point I'm willing to believe anything like the true special ability of the armored titan being literally plot armor. Armor doesn't only refer to the physical stuff around its body but the fact its incredibly hard to kill in general, even by the host's own hands. Through paths/fate shenanigans the armored titan has the highest survival rate throughout the ages, usually making it to the full 13 years.

DEW IT.
 

RecRoulette

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,049
At this point I'm willing to believe anything like the true special ability of the armored titan being literally plot armor. Armor doesn't only refer to the physical stuff around its body but the fact its incredibly hard to kill in general, even by the host's own hands. Through paths/fate shenanigans the armored titan has the highest survival rate throughout the ages, usually making it to the full 13 years.

DEW IT.
THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN SAVE THE DAY. REINER
 

nDesh

The Three Eyed Raven
Member
Oct 27, 2017
817
At this point I'm willing to believe anything like the true special ability of the armored titan being literally plot armor. Armor doesn't only refer to the physical stuff around its body but the fact its incredibly hard to kill in general, even by the host's own hands. Through paths/fate shenanigans the armored titan has the highest survival rate throughout the ages, usually making it to the full 13 years.

DEW IT.
It would make perfect sense.

Also, I wonder if there’s something more to the Warhammer.
 
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Hellwarden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,619
*Reiner gets his entire body blown up by a well placed thunder spear, didn't have time to transfer his consciousness*

Reiner-"Ah finally, the sweet release of death..."

*Reiner wakes up in the paths dimension*

Reiner-"W-what? Wh-"

*Reiner glances over and sees Eren and Zeke fighting awkwardly in the sand*
 

Drax

Oregon tag
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,452
One scene that I find very interesting now was when they were all slapfighting to inherit the AT after the 13 years passed for Eren and Eren is like I just don't give a shit, cuz he knows he's the last one.
 

luffie

Member
Dec 20, 2017
188
What Zeke opened up was the possibility for Eren to motivate Grisha to kill the Reiss, which Eren knew would happen from having seen Grisha's memories. There's nothing here that suggests the future-seeing ability is necessarily an effect of the timeloop, rather than the other way around. Speaking generically, simply being able to see future memories doesn't necessitate the existence of a timeloop.
I think people also forget though, Eren can see these memories also because he was connected to the royal, Historia. Which is why we could ask "why didn't Grisha or Owl utilize this ability?" It's not like Eren can just come and go as he pleases. So while Eren was able to manipulate Grisha, Grisha wasn't able to do the same to Eren, because he lack the connection to the Royals at that time.
He also manipulates Zeke only when Zeke allows him to peer through the past memories. It's the founding that has access to all the Titan's memories, it's the Attack power that can manipulates them.

If anything, it's the 1st King's memory that we haven't see, on why he made that renouncing vow etc, and what did he do with all that power in hand. Hell, we don't even know hoe the Ackermans came to be yet.

Isayama keeps on delivering, every chapter is a suspense, every chapter adds new clue, every chapter moves it forward.
 

Brickhunt

Member
Feb 4, 2018
373
Brazil
I mean it is concerning that no matter what, it seems we're getting genocide whether by Eren Jaeger or Zeke Jaeger just to different groups.
I think that Eren will manage to initiate his scenario, but either Reiner or Armin will stop it, or convince Eren to stop, and we will get a scenario similar to the original plan, which was to have the Wall Titans as deterrent while Paradis catches up with the world in military and technology. It is the only scenario in which I can see Armin playing a big part and the closest to bittersweet ending.

Eren genociding the rest of the world is too horrific or too "happy ending" for those who simply see Marley and the rest of the world as villains who deserve to be exterminated. And I definitely see Armin turning against Eren if he puts his plan in motion.
 

Seesaw15

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,818
I’m excited for Annie to either serve a pivotal role in the remaining plot or to stay frozen forever. Logically she has a role to play with Armin but I could see the story swerve and not do anything lol.
 
Nov 6, 2017
7,036
Los Angeles
I think that Eren will manage to initiate his scenario, but either Reiner or Armin will stop it, or convince Eren to stop, and we will get a scenario similar to the original plan, which was to have the Wall Titans as deterrent while Paradis catches up with the world in military and technology. It is the only scenario in which I can see Armin playing a big part and the closest to bittersweet ending.

Eren genociding the rest of the world is too horrific or too "happy ending" for those who simply see Marley and the rest of the world as villains who deserve to be exterminated. And I definitely see Armin turning against Eren if he puts his plan in motion.
Too safe imo.

Also the last panel has what’s presumably Eren saying to a baby that she/he is free. That sounds like the problem has been permanently solved.

Who says this manga can’t have a horrific ending?
 

nDesh

The Three Eyed Raven
Member
Oct 27, 2017
817
I'm in the Eren causing the rumbling while having a secret plan, and using Armin for a final solution, also Eren liberating Ymir from the paths dimension ending the titan curse forever and Historia's daughter = Ymir camp.

How all this is going to work together? and don´t know but I trust Isayama.
 
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BigWinnie1

Member
Feb 19, 2018
2,587
Alot of people are saying that Erin is the Devil that gave Ymir powers and I'm like what the fuck are they reading. He may be able to talk to her but I doubt he is way she got her powers, he doesn't even have access to that shit at all.
 

Dark Knight

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,381
Alot of people are saying that Erin is the Devil that gave Ymir powers and I'm like what the fuck are they reading. He may be able to talk to her but I doubt he is way she got her powers, he doesn't even have access to that shit at all.
We don't really know the extent of everything this causal time loop implies, so anything is possible at this point. But in the same way that Eren became someone super important via this bootstrap paradox, Titan powers could very well have a similar origin of being the cause and effect of themselves.

The time fudgery has already altered basically every major event in the story in retrospect. It's all up in the air at this point, and this weird event in history is the most outlandish yet important puzzle piece to the entire story, so it(or, basically Eren) could very well end up being a stand-in for the supernatural element of "the Devil" as described in the history books. The Devil could very well translate to a human that obtained too much power, the moral being that human nature is inherently evil.

Titans could just be the 4th-dimensional expression of human nature.
 

BigWinnie1

Member
Feb 19, 2018
2,587
We don't really know the extent of everything this causal time loop implies, so anything is possible at this point. But in the same way that Eren became someone super important via this bootstrap paradox, Titan powers could very well have a similar origin of being the cause and effect of themselves.

The time fudgery has already altered basically every major event in the story in retrospect. It's all up in the air at this point, and this weird event in history is the most outlandish yet important puzzle piece to the entire story, so it(or, basically Eren) could very well end up being a stand-in for the supernatural element of "the Devil" as described in the history books. The Devil could very well translate to a human that obtained too much power, the moral being that human nature is inherently evil.

Titans could just be the 4th-dimensional expression of human nature.
I really doubt we are getting into 4D expression of human nature. That just seems like trying to shave a block to fit into a hole that it wasn't made for.

I come from the other side and say that At the End of it Eren helps Ymir be reborn into a full life and free's her from whatever devils bargain she originally made for herself or her people.

Like I really Think Him and Historia planned this shit out awhile ago. I mean ever since Historia went on her fuck the world rant when she freed Eren it always felt to me that even if shit went tits up it would be Historia and Eren against the world if need be.
 

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,533
Alot of people are saying that Erin is the Devil that gave Ymir powers and I'm like what the fuck are they reading.
"To you, 2000 years from now". It has been calculated that there are about 2000 years between the current time and the moment Ymir got her powers, already implying there is a specific important thing. Combine that now with Eren not getting memories from any future Attack Titan and it implies he is the last one.
 

Dark Knight

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,381
I really doubt we are getting into 4D expression of human nature. That just seems like trying to shave a block to fit into a hole that it wasn't made for.

I come from the other side and say that At the End of it Eren helps Ymir be reborn into a full life and free's her from whatever devils bargain she originally made for herself or her people.

Like I really Think Him and Historia planned this shit out awhile ago. I mean ever since Historia went on her fuck the world rant when she freed Eren it always felt to me that even if shit went tits up it would be Historia and Eren against the world if need be.
Sure, that's possible too. I just think the Eren=Devil scenario is more likely.

Also, when I said 4D, I'm just going off of the source material. They're currently inside a dimension outside of time; a metaphysically transcendent plane where actions are taken that project and materialize things out of thin air into "our" world. In the show when flesh regenerates and titan forms are created we often see that odd "rainbow" effect that becomes flesh. I don't think there is any question, especially now with actions that echo forward and backward through time, that Ymir's world is a higher dimension than our own.
 
Oct 27, 2017
763
"To you, 2000 years from now". It has been calculated that there are about 2000 years between the current time and the moment Ymir got her powers, already implying there is a specific important thing. Combine that now with Eren not getting memories from any future Attack Titan and it implies he is the last one.
It could also be Eren talking to the first shifter (Ymir?) through paths, since he could have influenced all prior attack titan holders. "I'm sending you this memory which will happen 2000 years from now", or something.

Also I'm not sure we know that Eren has not been getting memories from any future attack titan holder, but yeah I don't think there will be anyone after Eren.
 

Alec

Member
Oct 27, 2017
979
Louisville, KY
So I am rereading the last 30 or so chapters and I think it was Eren who sent that titan to save Zeke when he "died."

Another thought...Is the entire reason Grisha was a restorationist because of Eren?
 
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luffie

Member
Dec 20, 2017
188
So... it just comes into my mind again....
So we have discovered that Ymir is actually bound to the coordinate as a mindless slave that obeys instructions, but who tf calls her out to heal zeke then?!!
Since nobody was able to enter it at that moment....
ps: it also gives me hope that somehow my boy levi will be back on his 2 legs again, they can't kill their money maker right?... right?
 
Oct 27, 2017
763
Guys Eren is not some omnipotent puppet master, at least not yet. He hasn't influenced every key event through paths, he was able to do so only in those memories Zeke allowed him to see. Maybe Zeke will allow Eren to walk through more memories in the future, but for now that's all we have.
 

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,533
Guys Eren is not some omnipotent puppet master, at least not yet. He hasn't influenced every key event through paths, he was able to do so only in those memories Zeke allowed him to see. Maybe Zeke will allow Eren to walk through more memories in the future, but for now that's all we have.
That is not the case, at the end of chapter 120 it is Eren who takes control away from Zeke. 121 is Eren deciding the memories.
 

TearablePuns

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,154
Yeah, I imagine the King’s Will was decided by Eren so that every shifter would eventually meet up here in Paradis all at the same time.
 

Brickhunt

Member
Feb 4, 2018
373
Brazil
So... it just comes into my mind again....
So we have discovered that Ymir is actually bound to the coordinate as a mindless slave that obeys instructions, but who tf calls her out to heal zeke then?!!
Since nobody was able to enter it at that moment....
ps: it also gives me hope that somehow my boy levi will be back on his 2 legs again, they can't kill their money maker right?... right?
I like to think that Ymir will automatically do everything in her power to heal any Titan Shifter of royal blood. Alternately, maybe any Titan who was transformed using his spine fluid will immediately come to his aid if his life is danger. After all, they already obey his orders, might as well have a "save my master" mentality.

Royal Blood gives Zeke more advantages, as far Titans Shifters are concerned, than other shifters.
 

PogChamp

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
5,712
I wonder if Eren will try to defy the future itself.

He doesn't want to be enslaved. But if you can see the future and can't affect it, that's the ultimate form of slavery.

If Eren is trying to fulfill the future he saw (which does seem to be the case given him laughing at Sasha's death) he'll have to eventually realize that he's a slave to time.
 

Alec

Member
Oct 27, 2017
979
Louisville, KY
I wonder if Eren will try to defy the future itself.

He doesn't want to be enslaved. But if you can see the future and can't affect it, that's the ultimate form of slavery.

If Eren is trying to fulfill the future he saw (which does seem to be the case given him laughing at Sasha's death) he'll have to eventually realize that he's a slave to time.
Maybe Eren is only a slave to time because he's *aware* that he is a slave to time (due to the titans existing). If Ymir is reborn and titans cease to exist (and thus, titan powers as well), then can you really be a slave? (Or is Eren a slave to his future self?)

Maybe Eren is fighting for a future in which he can no longer see his own future memories.
So... it just comes into my mind again....
So we have discovered that Ymir is actually bound to the coordinate as a mindless slave that obeys instructions, but who tf calls her out to heal zeke then?!!
Since nobody was able to enter it at that moment....
ps: it also gives me hope that somehow my boy levi will be back on his 2 legs again, they can't kill their money maker right?... right?
Lol, 5 minutes before you posted, I posted about Eren being the one to call Ymir to heal Zeke (from the future).
 

luffie

Member
Dec 20, 2017
188
I like to think that Ymir will automatically do everything in her power to heal any Titan Shifter of royal blood. Alternately, maybe any Titan who was transformed using his spine fluid will immediately come to his aid if his life is danger. After all, they already obey his orders, might as well have a "save my master" mentality.

Royal Blood gives Zeke more advantages, as far Titans Shifters are concerned, than other shifters.
nah man, that cannot be true, cos then Ymir would have gone to rescue Reiss, and Ymir only obeys the Founding Titan, not any royal blood. And it can't be any titan either, it came from the ground out of nowhere, it consumes and heal zeke fully, as far as i know, there is no mention of a single normal titan that can do that, royal blood or not.
But I'm sure it will be a key piece to Isayama's future revelation.
 

Brickhunt

Member
Feb 4, 2018
373
Brazil
nah man, that cannot be true, cos then Ymir would have gone to rescue Reiss, and Ymir only obeys the Founding Titan, not any royal blood. And it can't be any titan either, it came from the ground out of nowhere, it consumes and heal zeke fully, as far as i know, there is no mention of a single normal titan that can do that, royal blood or not.
But I'm sure it will be a key piece to Isayama's future revelation.
The only reiss who was a shifter was Frieda, which got eaten, which is a very definite way to kill a titan shifter. None of the other reiss there were shifters.

Also, the Titan did not come from nowhere or from the ground. He is one of the scouts transformed into titans that Levi fought. There was a previous panel showing it regenerating and it walked on Zeke's direction.

As far as we know, Zeke is the only non-founder titan shifter of royal blood ever since the Walls were erected. And it was mentioned that Ymir obeys Royal Blood, not necessarily the holder of the Founding Titan.
 

Dark Knight

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,381
Also, the Titan did not come from nowhere or from the ground. He is one of the scouts transformed into titans that Levi fought. There was a previous panel showing it regenerating and it walked on Zeke's direction.
Yeah, I still think it was just fortuitous luck on Zeke's part rather than divine intervention. Necessary not to connect it to the grand scheme of things but a good way to formally introduce Ymir's world/sandland.