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Attack on Titan (Shingeki no Kyojin) manga SPOILERS thread | Enter the Basement

nDesh

The Three Eyed Raven
Member
Oct 27, 2017
861
Apparently, the next volume will be the last.

My guess is that the next chapters will be about everyone trying to stop the Rumbling before it decimates the world.

Zeke is useless now, since Ymir ignored him. I guess the "save the world" ball will be on Armin, Reiner or Falco.
link for that? There’s so many things that need to happen to end in 4 chapters more.
8 more (130) is good, 12 more (134) would be ideal IMO.
 
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Dark Knight

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,737
the deal with the devil was just a theory passed down by eldians and marleyans alike, then there was kruger's version in which og ymir stumbled upon 'the source of all organic matter'. Which seems to be exactly what happened? As to what that spiney thing is, no clue
The legend goes that Ymir made contact with "the source of all organic matter."

Alien? Primordial life? 4th dimensional parasite?

Whatever it is can essentially make a horrific giant flesh avatar version of you around you, putting human genetics, form, and flesh on full boost. It makes you wonder "who" was building the titans before Ymir was. The titan faces are way more interesting before Ymir took over. Skull faces, horse faces, whatever was originally building them on the other side had some interesting ideas about the human organism.

Either way, there are three possibilities as far as I can tell:
1) It was inert until it found a compatible host
2) It was a predator of sorts, laying in wait to take advantage of a compatible host
3) It was left there by someone who knew Ymir would be tumbling down if it ends up being involved in the time loop

It's gonna be a source of speculation forever if Isayama never explains the entity.
 

shergal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
87
I don't need Ymir to talk per se. I just need to see something more compelling. Of course you can fill in the gaps, and say "well she was a slave, Eren freed her, that's all we need to know" but that just doesn't really have any impact when it's done like this. Other emotionally poignant moments in the manga were absolutely built up more, related to more characters and had more detailed developments. They weren't simply introduced and resolved over the span of 30 pages, without any struggle or effort, by simply saying the correct lines at the correct time. Reiner's inner mental state was developed for an entire volume, let alone all we knew about him before that, before he met Eren again and broke down completely becoming unable to fight him. Even something as relatively minor as Rod's motivations was carefully built up over multiple chapters before his flashback, unlike here. The notion that the chapter as it exists is enough to make you feel sympathy with Ymir and get your hair raised when Eren "frees" her is totally alien to me, and from what I've seen on other sites, I'm not the only one who feels like this. It's delusional to think that more time devoted to this would just make it worse, an ad-hoc justification for the events as they exist.

Also, the idea that Ymir needed Eren specifically to free her contradicts the notion that it all came down to her slave mentality. Eren told her to choose for herself; is that, and saying "you're normal", really all it takes to undo the deep-seated psychological and ideological conditioning that a slave is subject to? We know Ymir didn't stop being a slave to herself even when she didn't have to, after getting the power. Why did she need to be freed, mentally, and couldn't do it herself? We never see any of this being developed, we just get a brief flashback showing how much of a slave she was (with no attention paid to her own psychology, again, it's not a matter of merely talking), and then suddenly her psychology is the most important thing when the conundrum is resolved so that Eren can get the rumbling going. It's just not up to the standards of SnK.

So as it stands
Eren isn’t the devil and on top of that, there never was a devil? Just the tree?

unless there was something else down there that we were never shown when she fell
The "devil" was the Eldian king. The apple was her powers, hence the picture book showing how she is "giving" the apple to the "Devil". Notice how the Eldian king has a helmet with horns, just like the Devil in the picture book.
 

TearablePuns

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,300
I don't need Ymir to talk per se. I just need to see something more compelling. Of course you can fill in the gaps, and say "well she was a slave, Eren freed her, that's all we need to know" but that just doesn't really have any impact when it's done like this. Other emotionally poignant moments in the manga were absolutely built up more, related to more characters and had more detailed developments. They weren't simply introduced and resolved over the span of 30 pages, without any struggle or effort, by simply saying the correct lines at the correct time. Reiner's inner mental state was developed for an entire volume, let alone all we knew about him before that, before he met Eren again and broke down completely becoming unable to fight him. Even something as relatively minor as Rod's motivations was carefully built up over multiple chapters before his flashback, unlike here. The notion that the chapter as it exists is enough to make you feel sympathy with Ymir and get your hair raised when Eren "frees" her is totally alien to me, and from what I've seen on other sites, I'm not the only one who feels like this. It's delusional to think that more time devoted to this would just make it worse, an ad-hoc justification for the events as they exist.

Also, the idea that Ymir needed Eren specifically to free her contradicts the notion that it all came down to her slave mentality. Eren told her to choose for herself; is that, and saying "you're normal", really all it takes to undo the deep-seated psychological and ideological conditioning that a slave is subject to? We know Ymir didn't stop being a slave to herself even when she didn't have to, after getting the power. Why did she need to be freed, mentally, and couldn't do it herself? We never see any of this being developed, we just get a brief flashback showing how much of a slave she was (with no attention paid to her own psychology, again, it's not a matter of merely talking), and then suddenly her psychology is the most important thing when the conundrum is resolved so that Eren can get the rumbling going. It's just not up to the standards of SnK.


The "devil" was the Eldian king. The apple was her powers, hence the picture book showing how she is "giving" the apple to the "Devil". Notice how the Eldian king has a helmet with horns, just like the Devil in the picture book.
I like this a lot more than the Eren one
 

effingvic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,358
Holy shit. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck. What a chapter.

Put Ymir out of her misery. Poor girl has suffered so much. Fuck.
 
Nov 6, 2017
7,439
Los Angeles
lol, have you ever seen Detroit Become Human's ending.

The imagery could not be more clear.

Detroit Become Human and Bright are like the only pieces of media as dumb as Attack on Titan though Attack on Titan is less focused on race and is more focused on having Game of Thrones disease and obsessing over throwing random plot twists out every chapter or two.
These aren't random plot twists.Come on, at least try to be fair here. These twists have been well-built up for a while now.
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,399
These aren't random plot twists.Come on, at least try to be fair here. These twists have been well-built up for a while now.
Many of these are decently foreshadowed post-basement... I just really hate a lot of them. eg, memory travel was set up years ago in real time, I just really dislike the twist and these elements feel fairly random in adding to the series. Stripping away any internal Eren thoughts is solely a mechanic to allow for twists as well. The last several years have been "what is Eren doing? Who knows!" just so that Eren killing random people in a certain way can raise more questions for more plot twists and I don't think that is very interesting story-telling, especially since I hate the twists. Game of Thrones at the end also quit allowing the audience to see what characters thought to allow for more twists.

I do question when the post-basement plotline was written as Reiner's actions pre-basement make very little sense, especially with him referring to "Humanity" when revealing things to Eren.
 
Nov 6, 2017
7,439
Los Angeles
Many of these are decently foreshadowed post-basement... I just really hate a lot of them. eg, memory travel was set up years ago in real time, I just really dislike the twist and these elements feel fairly random in adding to the series. Stripping away any internal Eren thoughts is solely a mechanic to allow for twists as well. The last several years have been "what is Eren doing? Who knows!" just so that Eren killing random people in a certain way can raise more questions for more plot twists and I don't think that is very interesting story-telling, especially since I hate the twists. Game of Thrones at the end also quit allowing the audience to see what characters thought to allow for more twists.

I do question when the post-basement plotline was written as Reiner's actions pre-basement make very little sense, especially with him referring to "Humanity" when revealing things to Eren.
This is more an issue with the concept than on execution and twists. Even if it was less surprising you'd still hate it.

Those may be translation issues. But it can also easily be just Reiner trying to make people think that the people within the Walls are the last of mankind. It's not like they want them to know of Marley's existence.
 

Dark Knight

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,737
Stripping away any internal Eren thoughts is solely a mechanic to allow for twists as well.
I disagree completely, I think doing this was a fantastic narrative component. It made us feel like we were looking at things from Armin and Mikasa's perspective. We only knew where Eren came from and not what made him snap or what he was planning. Eren became so much more riveting and electric as a character.
 

Yabberwocky

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,078
holy shiiiiiiitttt

I feel like I didn't take a breath whilst reading the whole chapter, it was so tense. Poor Ymir, fucking hell. Miserable in life, and miserable in the eternity of death she's spent rebuilding the other titans. It's (depressingly) good to finally have her backstory and to see her true titan form. We also now we have a better understanding of the Fritz/Ymir/Founding Titan control dynamic due to Ymir being a slave, and more context for the S2 ending. The source looking like spinal/centipede thing with extending tendrils and attaching to the spine explains why a shifter's spine is so important, and alleviates the frustrations I had with Reiner surviving without a head, etc.

Shiiiiiiit at the chapter ending on the Rumbling (that is a lot of Colossal titans!), and Eren bringing centipede-skeletal-horror-Junji Ito-titan-realness. It'll be hard waiting another month, sigh.

The legend goes that Ymir made contact with "the source of all organic matter."

Alien? Primordial life? 4th dimensional parasite?

Whatever it is can essentially make a horrific giant flesh avatar version of you around you, putting human genetics, form, and flesh on full boost. It makes you wonder "who" was building the titans before Ymir was. The titan faces are way more interesting before Ymir took over. Skull faces, horse faces, whatever was originally building them on the other side had some interesting ideas about the human organism.

Either way, there are three possibilities as far as I can tell:
1) It was inert until it found a compatible host
2) It was a predator of sorts, laying in wait to take advantage of a compatible host
3) It was left there by someone who knew Ymir would be tumbling down if it ends up being involved in the time loop

It's gonna be a source of speculation forever if Isayama never explains the entity.
Great analysis re: the source, and I think I'm even more unnerved out now, if that was possible! Nope-nope-nope. I also didn't consider who or what was rebuilding the titans before Ymir died.

For me, it's probably more interesting if we don't get any true answers on the source (it makes it even more horrifying), but it'll certainly be interesting to see where Isayama takes the story.

The "devil" was the Eldian king. The apple was her powers, hence the picture book showing how she is "giving" the apple to the "Devil". Notice how the Eldian king has a helmet with horns, just like the Devil in the picture book.
Fantastic catch!
 

nDesh

The Three Eyed Raven
Member
Oct 27, 2017
861
Eren post-basement steals every scene he’s in, he has become a mesmerizing character. So yeah, Isayama has done something magnificent with him, but in the end it depends about his true plan, it needs to be something big to justify all the innocents he killed in Marley, but I trust Isayama, even Mikasa said to him that there’s no coming back from that.
 

Ocarina_117

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,825
Holy. Fucking. SHIT.

ITS INSANE how much of this can be seen in the anime closing credits. That scene with Rose, Maria and Sinha was in the season 2 credits if I recall correctly.
 

Ocarina_117

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,825
Man I hope the studio delivering the last season lives up to the wonderful work WIT has done so far.

This story really deserves the best possible treatment.
 
Nov 6, 2017
7,439
Los Angeles
Eren post-basement steals every scene he’s in, he has become a mesmerizing character. So yeah, Isayama has done something magnificent with him, but in the end it depends about his true plan, it needs to be something big to justify all the innocents he killed in Marley, but I trust Isayama, even Mikasa said to him that there’s no coming back from that.
He already said it. He’s going to kill everyone else until all of his people’s enemies are dead.

He’s willing to take someone else’s freedom if it means preserving his own. He said this in the last chapter.

Basically, ethnic cleansing but more brutally than his brother’s version and a different target that involves more people.
 

Kegels

Member
Jan 24, 2019
1,954
is Ymir still in the paths dimension or did she leave after this? Is anyone else going to be able to shift, ever, if she leaves with Eren now? Who would sculpt their bodies?
 

chefbags

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,615
Isayama is the foreshadowing God. Literally must have thought of this since the beginning.

Timeisaflatcircle.gif
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,446
It's hilarious that you always try to do this shit and it always ends in the same way

It's weird and annoying as shit.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,973
I'm not sure this stuff makes much sense. All of this coordinate/ymir/timeloop thing is just so convoluted. In any case this kind of lore dumps aren't very satisfying to me.
 

RecRoulette

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,559
Motherfucker

He pulled the trigger on The Rumbling, goddamn I didn't think Isayama would actually do it

What an amazing payoff for Ymir's eyes being hidden all this time. Fuck this is going to be INSANE animated

Edit

Helos was just a fucking dude who tried killing the King and accidentally killed Ymir (spear through the spine) instead. They explained EVERYTHING.
 
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Nov 6, 2017
7,439
Los Angeles
I'm not sure this stuff makes much sense. All of this coordinate/ymir/timeloop thing is just so convoluted. In any case this kind of lore dumps aren't very satisfying to me.
It's really not that complicated. It's a stable timeloop.

Eren via the Attack Titan can see not only the fate of past Attack Titans (like the other Titans) but can see the fate of future Attack Titans as can any wielder of the Attack Titan. Wielders can't see their own fate though buuuuut Eren cheated when he came in contact with Historia and he saw his own fate through Grisha's memories.

He's also said that Game of Thrones is going to influence his work years ago and I get the feeling that this part of Eren's time powers were influenced to some extent by Bran's powers.
 

effingvic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,358
It would not surprise me if he had laid out a fuck ton of key events from almost day one.
Yeah for sure. You know this guy has a gigantic ass story bible with mind maps and stuff with more detail than most academic textbooks.

I hope authors take note and have their entire story and plot points nailed before working on the first chapter. I know I will if I ever decide to write something.

His editors are champs too for letting him tell the story at his own pace. Takes a lot of trust to let him do the shit he did and it's paying off spectacularly
This is also true. I feel bad for the authors that have an amazing premise, only to have it all gutted due to publisher and editor pressure.
 

Hypron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,630
NZ
In hindsight it's a good thing he didn't get a spot in the Weekly Shōnen Jump, I don't think they'd have let him take the series in this direction.
 

TearablePuns

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,300
Holy shit, was this really the full circle moment?

Which could mean Eren saw everything up until this final memory of Ymir. His last memory he saw that day was of Ymir starting the rumbling.

I am in fucking shambles
 
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TearablePuns

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,300
They even went out of their way to have Zeke resemble the first king Fritz uncannily. If his hair was slicked back, they would look identical. Drawing parallels that would make it even easier for Ymir to make her decision. She finally gets the retribution she should have had back then.

This is the scene where Fritz tells Ymir to kill the Marleyans replaying all over again but instead “this” Fritz is telling her to kill all Eldians.
But she ain’t having it this time! Eren was the wildcard.

Isayama is amazing
 

Kuroyume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,572
Can you or someone explain this more fully?

Eren can see the past (attributable to the founder, or a common ability of all titans I think?) and the future (thanks to the attack). He can see the future of the next attack titan inheritor, but not his own. Nonetheless, he was able to use his ability to look into the past to see Grisha's vision of Eren's future? So that way Eren knew he would somehow reach the paths world? Is that right?

Now how does that relate to this:

Holy shit, was this really the full circle moment?

Which could mean Eren saw everything up until this final memory of Ymir. His last memory he saw that day was of Ymir starting the rumbling.

I am in fucking shambles
If this is Eren's final memory (presumably from him using Grisha to see his future) does this suggest that this is where Eren dies?
 

TearablePuns

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,300
Can you or someone explain this more fully?

Eren can see the past (attributable to the founder, or a common ability of all titans I think?) and the future (thanks to the attack). He can see the future of the next attack titan inheritor, but not his own. Nonetheless, he was able to use his ability to look into the past to see Grisha's vision of Eren's future? So that way Eren knew he would somehow reach the paths world? Is that right?

Now how does that relate to this:



If this is Eren's final memory (presumably from him using Grisha to see his future) does this suggest that this is where Eren dies?
So, this is why I edited my post earlier, and this is my thoughts on that
On that day specifically, Eren saw the memories only of the past founders. So the last memory of a past founder he had was of Ymir. So, in a way, he saw a little of his future at that moment. But the drawback was he couldn’t remember it because when he woke up, he couldn’t remember what had happened.

fast forward to when he made contact with Historia, Eren broke the game.. he can see into his future for god knows how far. Idk anymore. Maybe he saw into the last day of his life that day.

Given this theory, idk why he said mikasas hair was different in his dream. Maybe he was mistaking her for someone else or maybe he saw her through grisha’s memories that first day they met her but I don’t recall her hair being different then.

so it’s not a perfect theory but it would be amazing if the first time we see eren in the series is when he wakes up when the rumbling occurs.
I’d really like that lol

and it would make sense given the name of the chapter
 

Kuroyume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,572
So, this is why I edited my post earlier, and this is my thoughts on that
On that day specifically, Eren saw the memories only of the past founders. So the last memory of a past founder he had was of Ymir. So, in a way, he saw a little of his future at that moment. But the drawback was he couldn’t remember it because when he woke up, he couldn’t remember what had happened.

fast forward to when he made contact with Historia, Eren broke the game.. he can see into his future for god knows how far. Idk anymore. Maybe he saw into the last day of his life that day.

Given this theory, idk why he said mikasas hair was different in his dream. Maybe he was mistaking her for someone else or maybe he saw her through grisha’s memories that first day they met her but I don’t recall her hair being different then.

so it’s not a perfect theory but it would be amazing if the first time we see eren in the series is when he wakes up when the rumbling occurs.
I’d really like that lol

and it would make sense given the name of the chapter
How is Eren able to see Ymir then if he hadn’t inherited any titan powers at the time (ch 1)? And how does touching Historia allow him to see further into the future? I thought the royal blood contact thing was for using the founding titan abilities, not enhancing the precogbition ability of a attack titan inheritor?
 

Mendrox

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,593
Motherfucker

He pulled the trigger on The Rumbling, goddamn I didn't think Isayama would actually do it

What an amazing payoff for Ymir's eyes being hidden all this time. Fuck this is going to be INSANE animated

Edit

Helos was just a fucking dude who tried killing the King and accidentally killed Ymir (spear through the spine) instead. They explained EVERYTHING.
Ohhhhhh


Ohhhhhhhhhh
 

TearablePuns

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,300
How is Eren able to see Ymir then if he hadn’t inherited any titan powers at the time (ch 1)? And how does touching Historia allow him to see further into the future? I thought the royal blood contact thing was for using the founding titan abilities, not enhancing the precogbition ability of a attack titan inheritor?
Well, all we know is he saw something that day, there’s no way of knowing everything he saw yet.
as for how he was able to see the future by making contact with historia, this is what he said
 

Arukado

Member
Oct 27, 2017
252
How is Eren able to see Ymir then if he hadn’t inherited any titan powers at the time (ch 1)? And how does touching Historia allow him to see further into the future? I thought the royal blood contact thing was for using the founding titan abilities, not enhancing the precogbition ability of a attack titan inheritor?
We know that the attack on titan hosts can see into the memories of the future hosts, and we also know that the founding titans can look into the memories of past founding titans, so Eren combined the two habilities when he touched historia: first he saw into Grisha's memories (past) using the founding power (remember that Grisha also had the coordinate at the time) and then he saw into Grisha's succesor (Eren) memories (future), his own future.
 
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Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,758
Can you or someone explain this more fully?

Eren can see the past (attributable to the founder, or a common ability of all titans I think?) and the future (thanks to the attack). He can see the future of the next attack titan inheritor, but not his own. Nonetheless, he was able to use his ability to look into the past to see Grisha's vision of Eren's future? So that way Eren knew he would somehow reach the paths world? Is that right?

Now how does that relate to this:



If this is Eren's final memory (presumably from him using Grisha to see his future) does this suggest that this is where Eren dies?
Eren hasn't seen any future memories. He has never indicated he has except the ones he saw through his father. It suggests that there is no future Attack Titan, this confrontation is the end of the Attack Titan line and presumably the end of all titans.