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Attack on Titan (Shingeki no Kyojin) manga SPOILERS thread | Enter the Basement

Kirblar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,358
We're totally getting Annie/Armin/Reiner vs Eren in a complete role reversal of the beginning of the series where those titans were the antagonists.

Probably not an accident that Beast and Jaw have been sidelined, while Cart really can't fight.
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,445
Eren with that discord tech
The way it was drawn, I wondered if everyone was teleported to that location in their minds or if they just heard him. It was drawn where it wasn't 100% clear by the end.

Imagine eating breakfast reading a book and then randomly being teleported to Hueco Mundo.
 
Nov 6, 2017
8,291
Los Angeles
Try convincing you that someone memeing about Eren killing everyone doesn't make them pro real life genocide? You're obviously not going to be argued out of that position.
"it's just a joke, bro"

I find genocidal jokes as funny as rape jokes. Not at all.

Especially since I belong to a group that has dealt with genocide.

Anyways, if the story is trying to make you think that the genocide of other ethnicities was the only way then it's likely a fascist narrative.
 

Dark Knight

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,125
Anyways, if the story is trying to make you think that the genocide of other ethnicities was the only way then it's likely a fascist narrative.
The genocide in this story isn't really ethnicity based though, it's more based on where you live. Eldians outside of Paradis are also going to be stomped. Please drop this dumb crusade.
 
Nov 6, 2017
8,291
Los Angeles
And it’s all because of Gunslinger.
Your welcome.

Doesn't help there's a dude in here that thinks we're all pro-genocide for enjoying this chapter, but I guess that's fucking Resetera for you.
I enjoyed the chapter and feel vinidcated that I was right about Eren.

But I don't support Eren and think he's a jackass that deserves another bullet to the head from Gabi.

The people that support Eren (and also think he intends genocide) are the ones I have issue with.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,698
Think about it this way. Some ideas are inherently toxic. There's a way to tackle genocide but not by turning your hero into a genocidal monster and letting them succeed and potentially even glorified by the people.

There's already enough fascist subtext as is within the story.

When I see Trumpers start saying "Deus Vult:" for at this chapter, it starts becoming uncomfortable.
1) It's Flowers 2) You are making a lot of assumptions about where the story is going, especially when the story has stopped portraying Eren as a hero. You can't talk to me about subtext while ignoring how the narrative is framing Eren as the bad guy here with Mikasa regretting she couldn't stop him, our other group of more reasonable people getting ousted for crazy followers, focusing a character arc on someone realizing that her upbringing as a child soldier might have ruined her perception of other people. All it does is tell me you are either very selective in your reading of subtext or don't actually know what subtext is.

3) You are SUPER VALID TO BE UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THAT! Like fuck those people saying that. That's also and would make me uncomfortable too. But also you're not with trumpers right now. This isn't reddit. Era doesn't have a TrumpOT that's just r/thedonald memes. Don't give those people slack but atleast have some faith your fellow Era members aren't pro genocide.

I fucking wanted Light to win in Death Note, because it WASN'T REAL.
Yeah we may be talking about one thing but dude that's fucked up...


Oh shit, you just made me realize that Annie probably heard Eren's paths-talk in this chapter :O
OH FUCKING SNAP!

Wow, this is the most action this thread has gotten after a chapter in a long time
Not really. This is usually how it goes whenever a new chapter comes out.
 
Nov 6, 2017
8,291
Los Angeles
The genocide in this story isn't really ethnicity based though, it's more based on where you live. Eldians outside of Paradis are also going to be stomped. Please drop this dumb crusade.
I already addressed that in a different post.

Nazi Germany: " It's not racist. I'm trampling over Germans in the Czechslovakia to kill all the Slavs. Fuck those Germans for being born in the wrong location. Paradis ...I mean Deutschland Uber Alles."
 

Brickhunt

Member
Feb 4, 2018
424
Brazil
Sure, you can but genocide is inherently political. Murder isn't.



At least try.



It's not just Marley though. It's the children and civilians of every other country too no matter where they are. If you're not an Eldian that lives in the Wall, you die. The story is pushing forth the idea that the only way that people can unify and get along is by killing every other group that doesn't belong to their tribe.

Some ideas are inherently toxic. There's a way to tackle genocide but not by turning your hero into a genocidal monster and letting them succeed and potentially even glorified by the people.

There's already enough fascist subtext as is within the story.

When I see Trumpers start saying "Deus Vult:" for at this chapter, it starts becoming uncomfortable.
Can we agree to wait until the end before we decide if the work is fascist or not?

If Eren wins, the world gets genocides and all is portrayed as a happy ending. Then yes, maybe AoT is, indeed, a fascist work.

But if Eren is stopped and genocide does not happen, and it is portrayed as a good thing, then no, how can AoT be portrayed as a fascist work?

What is worth of debate, however, is seeing people online fully agreeing with Eren if they believe there is no final twist in his plan. It is one thing to trust that Eren will pull out a Lelouch or a Sasuke or another twist. It is another to trust that his genocide is morally justifiable (I am not accusing people who wants the world genocide for the sake of story itself, btw)
 
Nov 6, 2017
8,291
Los Angeles
Can we agree to wait until the end before we decide if the work is fascist or not?

If Eren wins, the world gets genocides and all is portrayed as a happy ending. Then yes, maybe AoT is, indeed, a fascist work.

But if Eren is stopped and genocide does not happen, and it is portrayed as a good thing, then no, how can AoT be portrayed as a fascist work?

What is worth of debate, however, is seeing people online fully agreeing with Eren if they believe there is no final twist in his plan. It is one thing to trust that Eren will pull out a Lelouch or a Sasuke or another twist. It is another to trust that his genocide is morally justifiable (I am not accusing people who wants the world genocide for the sake of story itself, btw)
Fair enough. I can agree to this.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,698
Also side note: we can all lay off gunslinger a bit. Like come on people, you can disagree with him but at least try and focus on the chapter that just came out. This is the AoT thread, i came here hoping to talk about AoT....
 

Dark Knight

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,125
Also side note: we can all lay off gunslinger a bit. Like come on people, you can disagree with him but at least try and focus on the chapter that just came out. This is the AoT thread, i came here hoping to talk about AoT....
I'm only playing with him at this point. He has a somewhat valid opinion in the sense that you shouldn't be for genocide(duh).

However, sometimes you can root for the villain without stanning their philosophy in real life. Kuja in FF9 is my favorite villain and I love his selfish, bratty, murder the universe philosophy without actually wanting to murder the universe myself.
 

Kirblar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,358
With regards to Zeke- the series was very careful to show why Zeke was wrong. Zeke wanting to rid the world of the Titans because they were too destructive is a noble goal but it's been shown that he fundamentally misunderstands the current circumstances he lives in. Zeke wants to remove the living WMDs that are the titans, and thus the conflict over those resources. But their world is modernizing very quickly to where the Titans are going to be outclassed by science within a pretty short timeframe (hi nuclear weapons) and thus the argument that you're taking tools of mass destruction off the table doesn't hold. He also doesn't fundamentally understand the nature of human conflict, that it will continue to occur with or without the Eldians around, because the fundamental problem is people, not a Hatfield/McCoy continental grudge match spanning Millennia.
 

Dark Knight

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,125
With regards to Zeke- the series was very careful to show why Zeke was wrong. Zeke wanting to rid the world of the Titans because they were too destructive is a noble goal but it's been shown that he fundamentally misunderstands the current circumstances he lives in. Zeke wants to remove the living WMDs that are the titans, and thus the conflict over those resources. But their world is modernizing very quickly to where the Titans are going to be outclassed by science within a pretty short timeframe (hi nuclear weapons) and thus the argument that you're taking tools of mass destruction off the table doesn't hold. He also doesn't fundamentally understand the nature of human conflict, that it will continue to occur with or without the Eldians around, because the fundamental problem is people, not a Hatfield/McCoy continental grudge match spanning Millennia.
I like this point you just made but what ramifications does that philosophy have for the real world? Weapons of mass destruction exist so it's better if all humans are dead?
 

nDesh

The Three Eyed Raven
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,018
The moral of the story is that you need to be aware of your pigs



Also side note: we can all lay off gunslinger a bit. Like come on people, you can disagree with him but at least try and focus on the chapter that just came out. This is the AoT thread, i came here hoping to talk about AoT....
The moment he used the Polygon article it became clear that he's arguing in bad faith, also:


This reminds me of a better executed version of Daenerys' story except the narrative is going to have Eren win.
A worse done version of that:

 

pochi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,139
I just noticed Eren was crying when he went to the kid's camp, and that kid was first seen from Eren's memories.
Eren must have seen that the camp will be slaughtered.

The memories really fucked up Eren man.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,698
The moment he used the Polygon article it became clear that he's arguing in bad faith, also:
I honestly don't care what kind of faith he's arguing in. He's entitled to his opinions and people are entitled to react but we really don't need a whole thread versus one person. That's excessive and not what yhr thread is about.
 

Dark Knight

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,125
I honestly don't care what kind of faith he's arguing in. He's entitled to his opinions and people are entitled to react but we really don't need a whole thread versus one person. That's excessive and not what yhr thread is about.
Sure he's entitled to his opinions, in the sense that he can think Eren is wrong. He's not entitled to think we're all pro-real-life-genocide for enjoying whatever degree of karmic righteousness Eren may be exacting upon humanity atm in a fictional manga.
 

Tace

Avenger
Nov 1, 2017
4,449
I love Thanos, doesn’t mean I support wiping out half of all life.

I love Bakugo too, doesn’t mean I’m for bullying.

You can enjoy characters without agreeing with their actions. Hell, look at the Joker movie
 
Nov 6, 2017
8,291
Los Angeles
Sure he's entitled to his opinions, in the sense that he can think Eren is wrong. He's not entitled to think we're all pro-real-life-genocide for enjoying whatever degree of karmic righteousness Eren may be enacting upon humanity atm in a fictional manga.
What karmic righteousness is there to be found in the slaughter women and children?

Hell, he might even be slaughtering the biggest victims of Marley which are the Eldians that were left behind in Marley.


I love Thanos, doesn’t mean I support wiping out half of all life.

I love Bakugo too, doesn’t mean I’m for bullying.

You can enjoy characters without agreeing with their actions. Hell, look at the Joker movie
Sure, I never said anything differently. I like Draco but I don’t support his actions.

If I say “I support Draco’s racism towards Muggles” and unironically say “Fuck Mudbloods” the Im am asshole.
 

RecRoulette

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,497
Mikasa saying Eren was family to her



Poor Armin, he was happy for about 30 seconds before realizing that all the walls were awakened.
 

Brickhunt

Member
Feb 4, 2018
424
Brazil
I am becoming more open to Eren's plan having "final twist".

He didn't need to communicate to the Eldians what he was going to do. He could just do it. However, by communicating with ALL Eldians. He is:

- Warning the overseas Eldians what is coming for them AND the other races. This ways, Eldians can warn everyone if the threat and help evacuate the coasts.

- it warns all Eldians in Paradis what he intends to do. He knows that his friends would not agree to the plan, so keeping his mouth shut was the best way to put then out of his way.

By spelling his plan, he is giving Armin and Mikasa, people who do not agree with genocide, the push needed to finally turn against him.

Maybe he really is pulling a Lelouch, and may have gotten inspiration from Pixis. Would make that scene quite funny
 

Mendrox

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,846
Sure, you can but genocide is inherently political. Murder isn't.



At least try.



It's not just Marley though. It's the children and civilians of every other country too no matter where they are. If you're not an Eldian that lives in the Wall, you die. The story is pushing forth the idea that the only way that people can unify and get along is by killing every other group that doesn't belong to their tribe.

Some ideas are inherently toxic. There's a way to tackle genocide but not by turning your hero into a genocidal monster and letting them succeed and potentially even glorified by the people.

There's already enough fascist subtext as is within the story.

When I see Trumpers start saying "Deus Vult:" for at this chapter, it starts becoming uncomfortable.
Dude. It's a manga.
 
Nov 6, 2017
8,291
Los Angeles
I dunno, I aint too worried cause they aint real. Eren's the biggest bastard in his own not-actually-existing world.
Then it’s not karmic righteousness.

And?

It’s a popular story marketed towards teenagers. In a vacuum, it doesn’t matter but stories sell ideas to its audience.

Let’s say that I’m right and the story wants to resolve its story with its main protagonist committing genocide against every other group that’s not part of his home. What’s the message? What’s the takeaway?
 
Nov 6, 2017
8,291
Los Angeles
i dont understand this sexist bullshit you have repeated several times,

can you tell me why you differentiate women from men in this scenario?

like, you are trying to equalize children to women for some reason.
Habitual use. It’s a late 19th century inspired era where they don’t typically involve female soldiers but AOT does or at least they do in Paradise and Marley

Thanks for pointing that out


I don't think you understand what people mean by karmic righteousness.
Well explain if you know.

I mean the poster that said that didn’t know what he meant
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
814
FWIW I don't think the story will end with Eren destroying the world, cause it doesn't feel like this is what Isayama has been builting up to. The events unfolding right now are obviously horrific and the characters are reacting like this is obviously wrong. I don't think people here want to stan for Eren ... at the same time, if Isayama throws a curveball and ends the story like this, what kind of meaning are we supposed to get from the entire series? Conflicts are inevitable, so the solution is to destroy everything so that there can be no conflict?

I've been team Armin from the start, the smoking gun's been there since serumbowl, he will save the world. With possible aid from Reiner who has been not-so-subtly paralleled to Helos in the last few chapters.
 

Hybris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,037
I'd be really devastated if Isayama actually has Eren kill the world and portray him heroically in any sense of the word. That would actually turn my favorite story of all time into one that I can't see myself ever praising again. I don't think he's gonna take it that route, but that would be the biggest buzzkill of all time for me if he did.
 

nDesh

The Three Eyed Raven
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,018
I'd be really devastated if Isayama actually has Eren kill the world and portray him heroically in any sense of the word. That would actually turn my favorite story of all time into one that I can't see myself ever praising again. I don't think he's gonna take it that route, but that would be the biggest buzzkill of all time for me if he did.
Do you think that he would draw the face of the heroe of the story like this?