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Attack on Titan (Shingeki no Kyojin) manga SPOILERS thread | Enter the Basement

BigWinnie1

Member
Feb 19, 2018
2,684
The original proposed plan was solid. Use the titans as deterrent to stop invasions and allow the island to catch-up over the following decades. But it had been hijacked from start.

But I can still see the plan being salvaged, but the Rumbling needs to be stopped at the right point. Enough to scare the world but before it can cause massive casualties.

Since Eren broke all the walls, they still need some kind of deterrent to replace it.

Edit: to elaborate, the original plan was the one Zeke proposed while omitting the "Euthanasia" part from everyone else. Even if the goal was euthanasia, he was still counting on the mini-rumbling to allow Eldians to live up to old age, so there was some logistic merit on that part.
You do realize 50 years is enough time for the Atom Bomb to be invented and wipe the island off the map right? that doesn't take an army. And killing all the armies breeds more fear and it would be a worse retaliation later down the line. Eren said enough is enough, He is ending everything in his generation because he refuses to push all these terrible choices onto the future generations. He has been pretty clear about that.

He is gonna end this shit here and now and with no half measures.I can see him going on and on until the rest of the world completely surrenders unconditionally. Its gonna be an unholy massacre on an unprecedented level but he will secure his people a future.

I mean for fucks sake the boy has been looking for alternate solutions and everytime he has been slapped in the face that there can be no half measures with such an all incompassing threat to your life. Paradise wishes to be left alone and no else gives a fuck that they would rather be left alone and just want them dead. Those two ideals can not exist together.
 

Ada

Member
Nov 28, 2017
1,677
Does this mean that the titans on the mainland (Pieck, Rainer etc) will be joining Eren and crew as they are all Eldians. No point being wiped out with the normies.
 

Dark Knight

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,125
Does this mean that the titans on the mainland (Pieck, Rainer etc) will be joining Eren and crew as they are all Eldians. No point being wiped out with the normies.
It's way too specific of an order to tell one of the colossals to come back and stomp out the foreigners on Paradis, so this isn't even an option. They'll still resist Eren, I have no doubt.
 

The Silver

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,191
Annie will save the day by yelling and making the colossal titans turn back, Eren won't have full control of the founding titan to counter it. Don't ask me what happens after the titans turn back.
 

Dark Knight

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,125
Annie will save the day by yelling and making the colossal titans turn back, Eren won't have full control of the founding titan to counter it. Don't ask me what happens after the titans turn back.
It's already confirmed he has full control of the founding. He did it by freeing Ymir. The founding power doesn't work the way it used to(confined to royal blood control).
 

nDesh

The Three Eyed Raven
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,018
If Eren can't / won't stop, then the series is ending in 3 more chapters, but my boy Armin the savior of humanity and the final true Eren plan / intentions, that will be revealed along with the Eren & Historia flashback, will take 7 or even 11 more chapters.

I will make my member tag proud.
 

SushiReese

Member
Oct 30, 2017
225
The writing of Eren falling into inevitable dark path is far much better and more impressive than Anakin in all three prequels and 8 seasons of GOT of mad queen Daenerys.
In the next panel, Marley army excluding warriors might surrender and then get excuted by Yeagerists like anime preview. Marley and world army would be crushed by titans. Millions of people would die. And people around world would know the news of rumbling.
Based on the set up,in the endgame I believe Levi would end killing Zeke, and Admin would be savior of mankind and stop Eren. The aircraft given by the Japanese lady might be at use.
Historia knew Eren’s plan all along since time skip that’s why she looked so cold and depressed. I wonder if Flock knew Eren’s plan before, but he would be 100% on board of Eren’s genocide plan.
 
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TearablePuns

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,770
I would take a whole chapter of Levi and Hange doing things.
That’s literally what we’re going to get lmao
In extravagant SnK fashion, the chapter will show us what happened to them directly after the Zeke incident, some dialogue moments between them, a sudden epiphany of how to proceed, the obstacles they encountered when they enact their plan, and the chapter ends with them pulling something badass off
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,702
The other reason that I don’t think that Eren is bluffing about destroying the whole world is because he’s


Is it better for your people to be genocided completely than for the possibility than you might be be under another nation's thumb in the future?
I mean the issue is less about being under someone's thumb than being straight up killed off. You saw how the meeting between countries went, the best defense for eladians is one where they had nothing to do with their lot in life and its the islands fault and everyone on the island should be the ones they kill. Eren clearly walked out of there cause he saw no other options other than bloodshed, either done against him or by him.
 

Terraforce

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
9,156
Is it better for your people to be genocided completely than for the possibility than you might be be under another nation's thumb in the future?
I'm not saying this is what I would choose do. I'm just stating that regardless of how you view his alignment, Eren's line of logic does feel justified. It's grimy, but he's finishing the job for good. Eren has established multiple times over that his intent is to end this cycle.

Side note, I just love how opposed Eren's ideals are to Zeke's. For a while we thought there might be a chance they had the same end goal, but their aspirations ended up being literally the polar opposite.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,032
ngl, I'm here for all the carnage.

I want to see the world on fire and Eren's loved ones reacting to his horrific decision. Gives me chills thinking about how this will be animated and voice acted.
Whew.
 
Nov 6, 2017
8,291
Los Angeles
I mean the issue is less about being under someone's thumb than being straight up killed off. You saw how the meeting between countries went, the best defense for eladians is one where they had nothing to do with their lot in life and its the islands fault and everyone on the island should be the ones they kill. Eren clearly walked out of there cause he saw no other options other than bloodshed, either done against him or by him.
I think a distinction needs to be made between Eren having blood on his hands and Eren causing the extinction of humanity outside the Walls.

There are effective routes available to Paradis that doesn't involve genocide. It won't solve the problem for good in Eren's lifetime but they can make steady progress.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,032
I really can't think of much. In this fictional world they have no out really.
In Eren's eyes it's literally kill or be killed. He listened, he watched and all it did was show him that the world literally wants the people of Paradis wiped out for the worst of reasons. And it's not like they'd stop there, they'd probably stop keeping Eldians in concentration camps and straight up genocide the rest of them after they're done with the Islanders.

What other way is there but to fight back?
 
Nov 6, 2017
8,291
Los Angeles
Like what? I guarantee they are not realistic, but I'd like to hear your ideas.
Don't be an asshole.

Anyways, you can use part of the Rumbling to crush Marley. If you can kill everyone in the world then you can defeat Marley with much less effort. You free the Eldians on Marleyan soil and give them the choice to live with you or with Marley, take back a substantial piece of land, forge peace at the end of a gun and then take the extra time to (a) continue efforts to industrialize your country (2) gain allies with diplomatic overtures and try to ally with Marley's natural enemies(3) exploit your resource rich island to begin trade relations with other countries (4) Force Marley to hand over all the titans to you.

They even have the power to vassalize Marley if they wanted to.


I really can't think of much. In this fictional world they have no out really.
In Eren's eyes it's literally kill or be killed. He listened, he watched and all it did was show him that the world literally wants the people of Paradis wiped out for the worst of reasons. And it's not like they'd stop there, they'd probably stop keeping Eldians in concentration camps and straight up genocide the rest of them after they're done with the Islanders.

What other way is there but to fight back?
Who said you can't fight back? There's a difference between Iraq fighting Iran to forge peace and Iraq fighting Iran then killing every Iranian to make sure they never threaten you again.
 
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Dark Knight

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,125
Don't be an asshole.
Was not my intent, and there's seriously no need for name calling.
Anyways, you can use part of the Rumbling to crush Marley. If you can kill everyone in the world then you can defeat Marley with much less effort. You free the Eldians on Marleyan soil and give them the choice to live with you or with Marley, take back a substantial piece of land, forge peace at the end of a gun and then take the extra time to (a) continue efforts to industrialize your country (2) gain allies with diplomatic overtures and try to ally with Marley's natural enemies(3) exploit your resource rich island to begin trade relations with other countries (4) Force Marley to hand over all the titans to you.

They have the power to vassalize Marley if they wanted to.




Who said you can't fight back? There's a difference between Iraq fighting Iran to forge peace and Iraq fighting Iran then killing every Iranian to make sure they never threaten you again.
Your idea involves fueling the very cycle that got the Eldians into this mess. That doesn't solve anything and it makes the rest of the world realize that they really need to fucking waste the Eldians with their soon-superior military technology. The Eldians simply can't be allowed to exist if they can romper stomp any country whenever they see fit.
 
Nov 6, 2017
8,291
Los Angeles
Your idea involves fueling the very cycle that got the Eldians into this mess

Divisions in mankind will always exist. It's part of human nature. You're never going to achieve an eternal peace for your people. Even if Eren kills every other race in the world, new divisions will sprout from within Paradis threatening them.

And I'm not trying to solve things permanently. I'm trying to preserve as much human life as possible while forcing a status quo within the world between the Eldians and non-Eldians because I'm not a genocidal maniac.

I'm not fucking Netanyahu or Mao or Hitler.

Because like them, Eren's concern isn't people, it's his tribe. Don't you agree?

That doesn't solve anything and it makes the rest of the world realize that they really need to fucking waste the Eldians with their soon-superior military technology.
I mean they already think that.

It'll be years before that happens and things may change. Regardless, you'll achieve a great boon with (1) the extra population (2) investing in efforts to catch up to other nations' tech (3) the extra fertile land (4) extra titans (5) Marley as a potential vassal.


The Eldians simply can't be allowed to exist if they can romper stomp any country whenever they see fit.
I sincerely doubt that every single country in the world hates Eldia that much.

I mean there are countries that stayed neutral against Hitler for instance.

There are bound to be countries that just don't care because they're far too distant.
 
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Dark Knight

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,125
Because like them, Eren's concern isn't people, it's his tribe. Don't you agree?
If Eren's goals are what they seem, sure, but the idea is that his tribe are the seed for people to grow and populate the Earth from. What matters is he will have killed the cycle, whether you agree or not with his methods. There will not be new conflicts for the rest of his life. Call it selfish(because it IS), but this sort of scorched earth policy is quite literally the only natural way for sustainable peace while him and his family and friends are still alive. Thing is, the colossals can never truly exterminate all life on Earth. People elsewhere will survive, possibly underground, and Eren has to call the WMDs off at some point in order for the future Earth to be fertile for his descendants. What matters is that nations and their grudges will die, even if humans beyond Eldians do survive.
 
Nov 6, 2017
8,291
Los Angeles
If Eren's goals are what they seem, sure, but the idea is that his tribe are the seed for people to grow and populate the Earth from. What matters is he will have killed the cycle, whether you agree or not with his methods. There will not be new conflicts for the rest of his life. Call it selfish(because it IS), but this sort of scorched earth policy is quite literally the only natural way for sustainable peace while him and his family and friends are still alive. Thing is, the colossals can never truly exterminate all life on Earth. People elsewhere will survive, possibly underground, and Eren has to call the WMDs off at some point in order for the future Earth to be fertile for his descendants. What matters is that nations and their grudges will die, even if humans beyond Eldians do survive.
Proving my original point from many pages back that the story's message is a fascist message. The way to eternal peace for your community is by killing every other community/ethnicity/race that isn't yours. Did Himmler write this story?

Bolded part is just you assuming something to try to lessen the blow.
 

Dark Knight

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,125
Proving my original point from many pages back that the story's message is a fascist message. The way to eternal peace for your community is by killing every other community/ethnicity/race that isn't yours. Did Himmler write this story?

Bolded part is just you assuming something to try to lessen the blow.
I don't think Isayama is pro-fascism because Eren is clearly the villain right now(if his agenda holds true).
The protagonists are the other Eldians who do. not. want. this. I think it's way premature to be judging the message of the story, to be honest.
 
Nov 6, 2017
8,291
Los Angeles
I don't think Isayama is pro-fascism because Eren is clearly the villain right now(if his agenda holds true).
The protagonists are the other Eldians who do. not. want. this. I think it's way premature to be judging the message of the story, to be honest.
Just look at how Pixis is portrayed.

Hell, Erwin Smith is apparently based on Erwin Rommel according to some people who have read the Japanese guidebook.

Eren's probably going to end the story glorified by the people of Paradis and potentially with his kid as Historia's heir to rule over the world.
 

Dark Knight

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,125
Just look at how Pixis is portrayed.

Hell, Erwin Smith is apparently based on Erwin Rommel according to some people who have read the Japanese guidebook.

Eren's probably going to end the story glorified by the people of Paradis and potentially with his kid as Historia's heir to rule over the world.
There's zero conflict left in the manga if that's the case. We already see Armin and Mikasa are fucking shook by Eren's decision. Sorry but this take is dead wrong and really weird, man.
 

nDesh

The Three Eyed Raven
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,018
You want the story to be fascist and Isayama a japanese nationalist so bad that it’s hilarious, specially considering that EVERYTHING points to the other way.

You have to do some serious mental gymnastics to twist it this way, why?
 
Nov 6, 2017
8,291
Los Angeles
You want the story to be fascist and Isayama a japanese nationalist so bad that it’s hilarious, specially considering that EVERYTHING points to the other way.

You have to do some serious mental gymnastics to twist it this way, why?
I mean he's glorified both a Nazi general and an Imperial Japanese general. Both war criminals.

There was an outrage about it.

June was also when South Koreans (some fans of the manga and anime, some not?) discovered a post on Isayama’s official blog from 2010 where he said the character Dot Pixis was based on historical figure Yoshifuru Akiyama, who Isayama called frugal and respectable. Because Akiyama was a general of the Imperial Japanese Army who contributed to the colonization of Korea and the commander of the army stationed in Korea under Japanese occupation, Koreans commented on the post in disgust and anger that Isayama would admire someone considered a war criminal, going as far as death treats.
I mean if Keanu Reeves said that Harvey Weinstein was a good and respectable man, wouldn't you think something is up?

There's zero conflict left in the manga if that's the case. We already see Armin and Mikasa are fucking shook by Eren's decision. Sorry but this take is dead wrong and really weird, man.
If there's only 3 chapters left, I think this might be it with no real twists left and yeah, it's done. It's just to end the story. We're at the finish line.

I'll give a bit more leeway if there's another volume left.
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,572
Don't be an asshole.

Anyways, you can use part of the Rumbling to crush Marley. If you can kill everyone in the world then you can defeat Marley with much less effort. You free the Eldians on Marleyan soil and give them the choice to live with you or with Marley, take back a substantial piece of land, forge peace at the end of a gun and then take the extra time to (a) continue efforts to industrialize your country (2) gain allies with diplomatic overtures and try to ally with Marley's natural enemies(3) exploit your resource rich island to begin trade relations with other countries (4) Force Marley to hand over all the titans to you.

They even have the power to vassalize Marley if they wanted to.




Who said you can't fight back? There's a difference between Iraq fighting Iran to forge peace and Iraq fighting Iran then killing every Iranian to make sure they never threaten you again.
Why does this sound like you want them to turn into Israel?
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,572
I was thinking more like the US where you're the big dog of the playground.

Not what I want but just saying that there are other routes there besides genocide.

People here are trying to justify Eren too much.
I wouldn't exactly strive for US global politics to be honest. We have secretly toppled so many properly operating governments to prop up a puppet regime and expand capitalism and "democracy" that it's not even funny. Also US of A is built on genocide so yeah, not really a good alternative.
 
Nov 6, 2017
8,291
Los Angeles
I wouldn't exactly strive for US global politics to be honest. We have secretly toppled so many properly operating governments to prop up a puppet regime and expand capitalism and "democracy" that it's not even funny. Also US of A is built on genocide so yeah, not really a good alternative.
Better to be the US than the what Eren is planning which would make him a bigger monster than Hitler or Stalin in total body count.

Anyways, all routes are varying degrees of evil. The way I proposed at least leaves as many people alive as possible and frees the Eldians in Marley(rather than having them all killed despite them being the biggest victims of Marley).

Also the older a nation and powerful a nation, the more likely it has committed some atrocity or even genocide.
 

nDesh

The Three Eyed Raven
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,018
I mean he's glorified both a Nazi general and an Imperial Japanese general. Both war criminals.

There was an outrage about it.



I mean if Keanu Reeves said that Harvey Weinstein was a good and respectable man, wouldn't you think something is up?



If there's only 3 chapters left, I think this might be it with no real twistsstart for the truth first

there’s absolutely no
Let’s start with the the truth first, there’s absolutely no connection between Erwin and Erwin Rommel, just people like you trying to make a connection to fill an agenda, an agenda that makes no sense considering how the story has been going for 123 chapters, even Pixis as a character in the manga did nothing even close to what you’re looking for.
the series has always been anti-imperialism, pro civil liberties and discourses. The royal family was corrupt, the government and church violent and corrupt. ‘Nazi Germany’ Marley depicted like absolute monsters, even the Yaegerist were immediately show like villains by performing a horrible terrorist act in their first appearance.
Look at Gaby’s arc, look at the message of the world being cruel but beautiful, look at the ‘hero’ Eren face and Armin reaction in the last chapter.

So yeah, you’re not making any sense in your desperate search for this to be considered fascist. Well, you do you.
 
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