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Attack on Titan (Shingeki no Kyojin) manga SPOILERS thread | Enter the Basement

Oct 25, 2017
19,571
Better to be the US than the what Eren is planning which would make him a bigger monster than Hitler or Stalin in total body count.

Anyways, all routes are varying degrees of evil. The way I proposed at least leaves as many people alive as possible and frees the Eldians in Marley(rather than having them all killed despite them being the biggest victims of Marley).

Also the older a nation and powerful a nation, the more likely it has committed some atrocity or even genocide.
This most likely would just open Paradis up to actual problems of terrorism. Eren's this pissed now. Imagine how fucking mad homeboy would be if Mikasa or Armin died from a suicide bomber attack over his policies.
 

RecRoulette

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,500
So personally I didn't see this chapter as being THAT eventful when I read. Just confirmation of what I thought Eren was up to. The only new interesting stuff was the flashback showing the gang happy one more time and Isayama cruelly keeping the Eren/Mikasa ship afloat despite being in flames.

Reading the replies here and other places, THIS was the chapter that broke people lmao, it's amazing. I guess people deep down were hoping that Eren wasn't the villain he's been for quite some time. To be fair, in his mind he really doesn't have a choice because the entire world wants to wipe out Paradis. It's genocide vs genocide.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
2,699
Better to be the US than the what Eren is planning which would make him a bigger monster than Hitler or Stalin in total body count.

Anyways, all routes are varying degrees of evil. The way I proposed at least leaves as many people alive as possible and frees the Eldians in Marley(rather than having them all killed despite them being the biggest victims of Marley).

Also the older a nation and powerful a nation, the more likely it has committed some atrocity or even genocide.
No offense but it is very clear you don't know what you're talking about by downplaying how fucking terrible US war history is. Like yeah you're "technically" not wrong that an older nation is more likely to commit autoricities, but just cause that makes sense doesn't exactly accurately reflect world history. The countries that commit atrocities are a lot less spread out than you think they are.

quick edit: in my personal opinion the biggest monsters in history are probs the british for the obvious reasons of colonialism but also Churchill (who I think was very important in keeping England together during the bombing of Britan) was an absolute monster. In ways kinda worse than Hitler. Seriously look up what he did after WWII, he's not stranger to genocide himself.
 
Nov 6, 2017
8,291
Los Angeles
No offense but it is very clear you don't know what you're talking about by downplaying how fucking terrible US war history is. Like yeah you're "technically" not wrong that an older nation is more likely to commit autoricities, but just cause that makes sense doesn't exactly accurately reflect world history. The countries that commit atrocities are a lot less spread out than you think they are.
I’m not downplaying how terrible it is. You’ll find me on the frontlines talking shit about the US but better to be the US than Nazi Germany, don’t you agree?

Do you want to go through a list?What are you counting as atrocities because I’m not limiting myself to genocide when I say atrocities
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,699
I’m not downplaying how terrible it is. You’ll find me on the frontlines talking shit about the US but better to be the US than Nazi Germany, don’t you agree?

Do you want to go through a list?What are you counting as atrocities because I’m not limiting myself to genocide when I say atrocities
Here's a hot idea: I don't actually like comparing the two because to compare the two is to inheriently downplay the other. Yeah sure the US never had death camps but they did have boarding schools for the indigenous people they decimated before hand and in those schools abused those children and tried to forcibly assimilate them into a christian society that killed/took away from their parents. And even in WWII out of paranoia we still put people into our camps if they were asian american for the "saftey" of the states and if someone refused it they'd be put in jail for standing up to an unjust system. But yeah, Germany had death camps, but besides that created a system that purposefully benefited people that turned in Jewish people. A huge problem for a lot of Jewish survivors was coming back to homes that were no longer their's or at the very least looted and robbed of everything they once had. History is very complex. Way more complex than simply saying one countries awful history is better than the other. They're all bad.

Another quick edit: To add to the bad reason of comparing the various awful shit of one country to the other in a very simplistic "One is atleast better than the other" is it greatly underplays the historical contexts that helped enable those autrociities. And even worse to me is comparing realworld autrocities to fictional stuff, ya know, cause one is very real and affected a lot of real people and one is fictional that has killed zero actually people.
 
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Nov 6, 2017
8,291
Los Angeles
Here's a hot idea: I don't actually like comparing the two because to compare the two is to inheriently downplay the other.

I don’t believe that’s true but that’s just arguing feelings. This isn’t something you could prove someone right or wrong on.

Yeah sure the US never had death camps but they did have boarding schools for the indigenous people they decimated before hand and in those schools abused those children and tried to forcibly assimilate them into a christian society that killed/took away from their parents. And even in WWII out of paranoia we still put people into our camps if they were asian american for the "saftey" of the states and if someone refused it they'd be put in jail for standing up to an unjust system. But yeah, Germany had death camps, but besides that created a system that purposefully benefited people that turned in Jewish people. A huge problem for a lot of Jewish survivors was coming back to homes that were no longer their's or at the very least looted and robbed of everything they once had. History is very complex. Way more complex than simply saying one countries awful history is better than the other. They're all bad.
Well, yes, they’re all bad. I never said anything different but even evil has degrees to it. Even you have to acknowledge that and when I was thinking about the US, I wasn’t thinking about the US and its whole history but the US as a superpower so post WWII which is still bad of course
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,699
Well, yes, they’re all bad. I never said anything different but even evil has degrees to it. Even you have to acknowledge that.
I don't because that's a very juvenile outlook to it. That only works if you're being selective or just don't know enough about history to realize the importance of individual events and how they bleed in to other events.
 

Dark Knight

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,125
I don’t believe that’s true but that’s just arguing feelings. This isn’t something you could prove someone right or wrong on.
You've been arguing feelings since the chapter came out. You feel a lot of ridiculous things about the manga and where it is headed despite a complete lack of evidence for your arguments and claims.

The Paradisians will cheer on genocide in the end? come the fuck on
 
Nov 6, 2017
8,291
Los Angeles
Let’s start with the the truth first, there’s absolutely no connection between Erwin and Erwin Rommel, just people like you trying to make a connection to fill an agenda, an agenda that makes no sense considering how the story has been going for 123 chapters, even Pixis as a character in the manga did nothing even close to what you’re looking for.
the series has always been anti-imperialism, pro civil liberties and discourses. The royal family was corrupt, the government and church violent and corrupt. ‘Nazi Germany’ Marley depicted like absolute monsters, even the Yaegerist were immediately show like villains by performing a horrible terrorist act in their first appearance.
Look at Gaby’s arc, look at the message of the world being cruel but beautiful, look at the ‘hero’ Eren face and Armin reaction in the last chapter.

So yeah, you’re not making any sense in your desperate search for this to be considered fascist. Well, you do you.
I’m only reporting what I’ve been told that the Japanese guidebook says. One of the sources was even arguing that AoT isn’t fascist but that Isayama certainly isn’t helping his case with this.

Anyways, the facts are that Pixis wasn’t modeled on a Japanese war criminal and that Isayama praised war criminal.

Will also point out that yes, the story dealt with a corrupt military dictatorship and royal family, it was replaced by a more benevolent dictatorship and good girl queen. Or are you going to argue that benevolent rule by military is a good thing?

Eren’s face is scary but a scary face doesn’t make a villain. What he’s doing is scary but is the story framing him as a tragic hero that did what was necessary and brought a utopia to the world? I think it might.
You've been arguing feelings since the chapter came out. You feel a lot of ridiculous things about the manga and where it is headed despite a complete lack of evidence for your arguments and claims.
I mean I think the evidence (which is based on foreshadowing and Norse Mythology references as well Eren’s philosophy and statement) that this is pointing toward that yes, there is no twist . Eren wants to destroy every other race of man besides his own that resides behind the walls and that he succeeds based on the final panel that Isayama revealed. And I also think that based on that success that the people within the Walls are going to glorify him as a hero(because it wouldn’t really make sense for them to vilify him). Hell, Historia’s kid might even be Eren’s which would mean that his bloodline rules the world.

I’m one for one with King Bran. Let’s see if I’m right with Eren.

And if I’m right, I have to ask myself, what’s the message that the story is sending me?

I mean I still like Attack on Titan as a story but I think the messages that it sends are potentially extremely toxic.


I don't because that's a very juvenile outlook to it. That only works if you're being selective or just don't know enough about history to realize the importance of individual events and how they bleed in to other events.
How so?
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,699
Why you gotta be kink shaming


You mean how is it juevenile? It means that you really haven't read enough about history outside of the big stuff they teach in High Schools. Stepping back from this heated conversation, you're clearly interested in fascism so you should go to your local library and check out some history books. You'd probs enjoy learning a bit more about the world.

Quick disclaimer: I say this but I'll fully admit I'm also not the most well versed in history. I am fascinated about Italian fascism but I know next to nothing about it. I hope AoT cuts away from this boring shit and goes somewhere where some dude rises to power by getting trains to go on time.
 
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Nov 6, 2017
8,291
Los Angeles
Actually, I want to amend my remarks. I believe the old government was lead by the nobles + King.

Now they’re actually being lead by the military+ Queen(who seems to be more of a figurehead)so it wasn’t a military oligarchy before until now which was then overthrown by Eren’s ultra-nationalist movement that wants to restore the Eldian Empire.
 

Dark Knight

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,125
And I also think that based on that success that the people within the Walls are going to glorify him as a hero(because it wouldn’t really make sense for them to vilify him).
But this doesn't make any sense. You're missing basically all the major messages in the story so far, Isayama isn't going to just alter the characterization of every character at the last second. Of course it makes sense to vilify Eren, he's not the same person they grew up with and they're not simpletons who are going to look the other way because he succeeded in killing everyone on the planet. The manga has been hammering home for the past 25 chapters that Eren is a drastically different person and none of his friends can keep trust in him any longer. You're reading it so wrong if you really this is as simple as the ending gets. Not to mention, Isayama isn't going to just draw the apocalypse for the next 4 chapters with nothing else going on. This is the final conflict, and it would be utterly pointless to keep telling this story at this point if literally nothing else is going to happen.

All I'll say is it's way, waaaay too early to judge it the way you are because there are going to be a couple more twists. Eren is the antagonist though, we know that for sure. There are no signs what so ever that the manga will portray this act as righteous.
 
Nov 6, 2017
8,291
Los Angeles
Why you gotta be kink shaming




You mean how is it juevenile? It means that you really haven't read enough about history outside of the big stuff they teach in High Schools. Stepping back from this heated conversation, you're clearly interested in fascism so you should go to your local library and check out some history books. You'd probs enjoy learning a bit more about the world.
Why you gotta be kink shaming




You mean how is it juevenile? It means that you really haven't read enough about history outside of the big stuff they teach in High Schools. Stepping back from this heated conversation, you're clearly interested in fascism so you should go to your local library and check out some history books. You'd probs enjoy learning a bit more about the world.
Actually, I have Bachelor’s in History (and a Bachelor’s in Finance).

I’m not really interested in fascism except in how they affect story-telling and also the messages different stories try to send you via framing or plot.

I could make write a few paragraphs on how Harry Potter is a mediocre rich kid(with a Dickens premise)that ends the story as a slaveowner and his last chapter is him thinking about Kreacher making him a sandwich and JK Rowling’s shitty portrayal of the House Elves.

Or how much comics like DC and Marvel love to turn rich people into superheroes.

Or how LOTR has some backward messages(even though I like the story).

Or how GRRM’s ASOIAF succumbs to its Conan inspirations with its Orientalist outlook and how the author doesn’t really care to use brown characters except as props.

Etc.
 
Nov 6, 2017
8,291
Los Angeles
But this doesn't make any sense. You're missing basically all the major messages in the story so far, Isayama isn't going to just alter the characterization of every character at the last second. Of course it makes sense to vilify Eren, he's not the same person they grew up with and they're not simpletons who are going to look the other way because he succeeded in killing everyone on the planet. The manga has been hammering home for the past 25 chapters that Eren is a drastically different person and none of his friends can keep trust in him any longer. You're reading it so wrong if you really this is as simple as the ending gets. Not to mention, Isayama isn't going to just draw the apocalypse for the next 4 chapters with nothing else going on. This is the final conflict, and it would be utterly pointless to keep telling this story at this point if literally nothing else is going to happen.

Well, no, last chapter is Mikasa thinking that maybe this little genocidal monster has always been this way and she as well as the audience missed the clues. So it’s not that he’s no longer the same person but just that he’s more upfront with who he truly is.

Also I’m not talking about his friends glorifying him. I’m talking about the population within the Walls who probably don’t give a fuck about the outside world.

Anyways, it’s 3 chapters, I believe(if this is truly the last volume). And you need a chapter or two for the epilogue.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,699
Actually, I have Bachelor’s in History (and a Bachelor’s in Finance).

I’m not really interested in fascism except in how they affect story-telling and also the messages different stories try to send you via framing or plot.

I could make write a few paragraphs on how Harry Potter is a mediocre rich kid(with a Dickens premise)that ends the story as a slaveowner and his last chapter is him thinking about Kreacher making him a sandwich and JK Rowling’s shitty portrayal of the House Elves.

Or how much comics like DC and Marvel love to turn rich people into superheroes.

Or how LOTR has some backward messages(even though I like the story).

Or how GRRM’s ASOIAF succumbs to its Conan inspirations with its Orientalist outlook and how the author doesn’t really care to use brown characters except as props.

Etc.
So what you're saying is that you're just prone to really bad takes.
 

Dark Knight

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,125
Well, no, last chapter is Mikasa thinking that maybe this little genocidal monster has always been this way and she as well as the audience missed the clues. So it’s not that he’s no longer the same person but just that he’s more upfront with who he truly is.

Also I’m not talking about his friends glorifying him. I’m talking about the population within the Walls who probably don’t give a fuck about the outside world.

Anyways, it’s 3 chapters, I believe(if this is truly the last volume). And you need a chapter or two for the epilogue.
Population within the walls? A bunch of them were just titanized by Zeke a few chapters ago and the rest have no idea wtf is going on(most of them not ever having experienced combat themselves, just normal people trying to live normal lives). Yelena and the Jaegerists aren't going to agree with Eren. Eren's friends definitely won't agree with Eren. There are very few people who will see this act as heroic or good.

What you're implying is that all of Paradis are Devils, and I think that's the exact opposite of what we've seen and understood for the last decade of this manga.
 
Nov 6, 2017
8,291
Los Angeles
So what you're saying is that you're just prone to really bad takes.
Depends on where you’re standing and on what issue. I don’t think most sane people can argue that JK Rowling’s handling of the House Elves is terrible. Or that GRRM handles PoCs badly


Population within the walls? A bunch of them were just titanized by Zeke a few chapters ago and the rest have no idea wtf is going on(most of them not ever having experienced combat themselves, just normal trying to live normal lives). Yelena and the Jaegerists aren't going to agree with Eren. Eren's friends definitely won't agree with Eren. There are very few people who will see this act as heroic or good.

What you're implying is that all of Paradis are Devils, and I think that's the exact opposite of what we've seen and understood for the last decade of this manga.
The Yeagerists are definitely going to agree with Eren. He’s making Eldians the only race in the world. They’re gonna love it. Floch is going to worship Eren as his god on Earth. Yelena’s people meaning Zeke’s people won’t but that’s because she wanted a different type of genocide.


If the story vilifies him for what he does and Paradis enters a civil war then I’d switch takes.
 

nDesh

The Three Eyed Raven
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,018
Anyways, it’s 3 chapters, I believe(if this is truly the last volume). And you need a chapter or two for the epilogue.

In another interview Isayama implied that it could be a little more because he has a lot of mini plots to close.

So 130 or 134 seems to be the estimated at the moment.
 
Oct 27, 2017
814
One reason why I don't think the story will end with Eren destroying the world is that basically all the themes (which have been repeated up to now) will be moot; Kruger's speech about repeating history, Gabi's redemption arc, etc. To me the whole point of the story is to break the cycle of hatred somehow. One Yeager brother thinks this is only possible by exterminating his own side, the other Yeager thinks the only way out is exterminating the other side, both of them are extremists and wrong.
 

Dark Knight

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,125
The Yeagerists are definitely going to agree with Eren. He’s making Eldians the only race in the world.
That's not what they wanted. You either didn't pay attention or you are intentionally misrepresenting the Jaegerists' purpose. Their purpose was to go down in history as having martyred themselves for the good of the world(by quietly closing the book on the Eldians' existence), reversing how all other countries felt about Eldians until the end of time. They did say Eren and Zeke would become gods of legend of sorts through this noble act, not the anti-christ like Eren is right now.
 
Nov 6, 2017
8,291
Los Angeles

In another interview Isayama implied that it could be a little more because he has a lot of mini plots to close.

So 130 or 134 seems to be the estimated at the moment.
If it's 134 then there's still time to switch tracks and really change my mind.

I'll gladly eat crow if I'm wrong. In fact, I'm hope I'm wrong so I can like the manga without feeling uncomfortable about the messages that it's trying to send me.

That's not what they wanted. You either didn't pay attention or you are intentionally misrepresenting the Jaegerists' purpose. Their purpose was to go down in history as having martyred themselves for the good of the world(by quietly closing the book on the Eldians' existence), reversing how all other countries felt about Eldians until the end of time. They did say Eren and Zeke would become gods of legend of sorts through this noble act, not the anti-christ like Eren is right now.
We're talking about different people when we say the Yeagerists. There are two different groups. There are Zeke's people that want to sterilize the Eldians and then there are Eren's people who want to create a new Eldian Empire with the Eldians as the Master Race presumably.









Eren is literally leading a revanchist ultranationalist movement and part of the population seem to idolize him

One reason why I don't think the story will end with Eren destroying the world is that basically all the themes (which have been repeated up to now) will be moot; Kruger's speech about repeating history, Gabi's redemption arc, etc. To me the whole point of the story is to break the cycle of hatred somehow. One Yeager brother thinks this is only possible by exterminating his own side, the other Yeager thinks the only way out is exterminating the other side, both of them are extremists and wrong.
What's the most optimistic ending that we can get from where we are now?

Isayama did say before that he wanted to do an ending like the Mist before he changed his ending to something less traumatic.
 

nDesh

The Three Eyed Raven
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,018
That's not what they wanted. You either didn't pay attention or you are intentionally misrepresenting the Jaegerists' purpose. Their purpose was to go down in history as having martyred themselves for the good of the world(by quietly closing the book on the Eldians' existence), reversing how all other countries felt about Eldians until the end of time. They did say Eren and Zeke would become gods of legend of sorts through this noble act, not the anti-christ like Eren is right now.
I'm with him in this one.

Remember that Floch literally says that Paradis needs a ruthless devil for them to survive, aka what Eren has supposedly become, the Yaegerist are fanatics.

But The Yaegerist has been portrayed as an antagonist force, the first thing they did was a suicide bomb, and then they tried to kill Levi/Hange, them glorifying him is portrayed as the villain thing, not the tragic hero thing.
 
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Dark Knight

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,125
^ That's still only like 20% of all Eldians on Paradis though, nobody else is going to suck satan Eren's cock for doing this but them.
 
Nov 6, 2017
8,291
Los Angeles
Potentially, this might be the series' message by the end:



Isayama said he loved GOT. I'm guessing he probably loved characters like Tywin Lannister and Stannis Baratheon.


^ That's still only like 20% of all Eldians on Paradis though, nobody else is going to suck satan Eren's cock for doing this but them.
Well, it depends on Isayama really and how humane he wants to portray the people of Paradis.

Like, we don't know how many people worship Eren. It can be 10%, 20% or it can be 90 % of them. Maybe Paradis is filled with ultra nationalists by now.
 

Dark Knight

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,125
Potentially, this might be the series' message by the end:



Isayama said he loved GOT. I'm guessing he probably loved characters like Tywin Lannister and Stannis Baratheon.
In the same breath though, characters in the story have thrown away their humanity to do incredibly heroic things as well. Leaving behind your humanity doesn't necessarily mean doing something horrible.

What's your take on Death Note? As another manga story with a villain protagonist, the take away from that is absolutely not pro-Light. Basically there's just no way to spin characters like Light or Eren as justified, especially in a narrative packed with moral messaging that says otherwise.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,699
Depends on where you’re standing and on what issue. I don’t think most sane people can argue that JK Rowling’s handling of the House Elves is terrible. Or that GRRM handles PoCs badly
I had a much longer write up but honestly it was way too much and I'll admit, I'm probably being mean to you at this point so I'm sorry. I'm gonna try and cut back on it. You're right, I can't argue with that and your takes aren't bad cause they're wrong, they're just way too focused on the tree's for the forest and trying to damn the forests for it. They're very basic and broad like reading Cracked articles and some people like that style of writing but I've grown out of reading them.

Isayama did say before that he wanted to do an ending like the Mist before he changed his ending to something less traumatic.
Honestly I'm for that. I love the ending to The Mist. It's a great ending to a movie. One of my favorite endings to anything. And honestly I'd be fine with an ending of Eren winning if it was ultra bleak and litterally just him and the baby left in the world.

^ That's still only like 20% of all Eldians on Paradis though, nobody else is going to suck satan Eren's cock for doing this but them.
I dunno it could easily turn into a "Well shit, if he can summon titans from the walls maybe he's a God? Who am I to have a moral conundrum with someone who can squish me." The characters we like can have a moral backbone but the population in general in these kinda fictions rarely do.
 

The Silver

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,191
The 50 year plan is the one with the least bloodshed if it succeeds, essentially they want to scare everyone into submission with a small scale rumbling and buy time until they can ensure MAD with the rest of the world. Of course Eren rejects that, him seeing his future really ruined him.

Isayama has really addressed most of the realistic alternatives to doomsday scenarios and has been shooting them all down. Gonna need crazy PATHS shit to save the day at this point.
 
Nov 6, 2017
8,291
Los Angeles
In the same breath though, characters in the story have thrown away their humanity to do incredibly heroic things as well. Leaving behind your humanity doesn't necessarily mean doing something horrible.

What's your take on Death Note? As another manga story with a villain protagonist, the take away from that is absolutely not pro-Light. Basically there's just no way to spin characters like Light or Eren as justified, especially in a narrative packed with moral messaging that says otherwise.
Like the ending of Death Note completely demolishes Light down to the base core and it works for the audience.

Light: The only one who can create a new world is me.

Near: No, you're just a murderer, Light Yagami. And this notebook is the deadliest weapon of mass murder in the history of mankind. You yielded to the power of the Shinigami and the notebook. And you have confused yourself with a god. In the end, you're just a crazy serial killer. That's all you are. Nothing more and nothing less.
Now I'll raise the possibility that it go this way with Eren but it needs to really hit us in the face of who Eren truly is. If the story tells us that Eren is just a mass murdering lunatic that confused himself with being some type of messiah and all he did was make things worse before getting another bullet in the head from Gabi or Mikasa stabbing Eren to death then I'd high five Isayama.

But that's a dangerous route to take for an audience because it needs to be executed well. With Light, you knew early on that he was a monster. That's not true for Eren. GOT did the same thing with Daenerys and bad execution ruined the character for most people

The 50 year plan is the one with the least bloodshed if it succeeds, essentially they want to scare everyone into submission with a small scale rumbling and buy time until they can ensure MAD with the rest of the world. Of course Eren rejects that, him seeing his future really ruined him.

Isayama has really addressed most of the realistic alternatives to doomsday scenarios and has been shooting them all down. Gonna need crazy PATHS shit to save the day at this point.
I mean Eren can't see alternative futures. He can only see the future that is fated to happen so he doesn't know if the 50 year plan would have worked or not.

So that's not really a shot down plan. It's just Eren being pulled by his own destiny preventing him from trying something else. Like, Eren probably asked Mikasa that question about how she felt about him because he saw that she would say "family" but if she had something else then perhaps he'd have thought that the future can be changed.

Anyways, I think Isayama's plotting skills are superb. I'm only intensely unsatisfied about the point he might be trying to make.
 
Nov 6, 2017
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Los Angeles
Honestly I'm for that. I love the ending to The Mist. It's a great ending to a movie. One of my favorite endings to anything. And honestly I'd be fine with an ending of Eren winning if it was ultra bleak and litterally just him and the baby left in the world.
I'm for that too.

Like, the Mist ending is all about the dad thinking he has to
mass murder everyone to spare them of pain and then after he does it, the military comes to save him which is where he realizes that all he did was mass murder his friends and family out of fear and if he had waited a little longer then everyone would've been alright. I don't know what the equivalent of that is. I guess maybe Ymir showing him what would've happened if he had gone with the small Rumbling instead and then showing that peace would've been achieved eventually and humanity much more prosperous than it is now. Then Ymir shows Eren the future that he chose where it's Eldia in a civil war where it descends to them going back to tribal societies where it's all out anarchy where everyone wars against each other.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,699
For the record, you don't need to refer to it as a "Mass-murder" Mass murder brings about a whole different context.

The thing is way closer to mass suicide than murder. Its just the dad drew the short straw cause they didnt' have enough bullets.
 

The Silver

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,191
Like the ending of Death Note completely demolishes Light down to the base core and it works for the audience.



Now I'll raise the possibility that it go this way with Eren but it needs to really hit us in the face of who Eren truly is. If the story tells us that Eren is just a mass murdering lunatic that confused himself with being some type of messiah and all he did was make things worse before getting another bullet in the head from Gabi or Mikasa stabbing Eren to death then I'd high five Isayama.

But that's a dangerous route to take for an audience because it needs to be executed well. With Light, you knew early on that he was a monster. That's not true for Eren. GOT did the same thing with Daenerys and bad execution ruined the character for most people



I mean Eren can't see alternative futures. He can only see the future that is fated to happen so he doesn't know if the 50 year plan would have worked or not.

So that's not really a shot down plan. It's just Eren being pulled by his own destiny preventing him from trying something else. Like, Eren probably asked Mikasa that question about how she felt about him because he saw that she would say "family" but if she had something else then perhaps he'd have thought that the future can be changed.

Anyways, I think Isayama's plotting skills are superb. I'm only intensely unsatisfied about the point he might be trying to make.
I'm not talking about it being impossible for all time, I'm talking about it being shot down in the context of Eren as he's still the one with all the cards. If Eren never saw the future he'd almost certainly be receptive to something like the 50 year plan.(of course he'd absolutely still hate the Historia brood mare part)

Eren gave up on alternatives when he visited Marley(maybe even before that, Mikasa even admits Eren still might have gone down this path regardless) and believes what he saw is the only path forward. I say it's been shot down because it's no longer tenable with what Eren is doing, he's the only one who can try to make it work and he won't. If they manage to stop him or something else crazy happens then of course then can still try it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
814
What's the most optimistic ending that we can get from where we are now?

Isayama did say before that he wanted to do an ending like the Mist before he changed his ending to something less traumatic.
Honestly don't know, I can't envision a happy ending with Eren (or Zeke) alive as their genocidal ideologies will only end with their deaths. Then again I'm almost sure it's Eren in the final panel.

That's why I'm banking on Isayama to finish this story in a satisfactory way that ties the themes up. He hasn't disappointed so far so I'm holding out hope. I can see Armin and perhaps Reiner managing to stop Eren and averting crisis, ending the connection to Ymir and the titan curse.
 

Dark Knight

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,125
I wonder if it's still possible for someone to eat Eren at this point. The last panel could be a complete red herring.
 

BigWinnie1

Member
Feb 19, 2018
2,684
I wonder if it's still possible for someone to eat Eren at this point. The last panel could be a complete red herring.
Dude do you see how big his titan is? He dwarves the giant wall titans walking past him as hr is hunched over alongside him having the warhammer titan aint no body touching him in a fight. I mean he just showed us not long ago that before this power up no one could touch him without long range sniper report and even then he was gonna kill atleast one of the shifters
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,028
I'd rather have something else than that, tbh.
I trust Isayama to give us a satisfying conclusion without justifying Eren's incoming atrocities.
 

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,199
There is still a twist to come on Eren's motivation or plan. We still haven't seen Historia's or Eren's insights. Like he wants everyone to bond together and stop the titans.
 

SushiReese

Member
Oct 30, 2017
225
I saw some theories on reddit about Eren’s endgame plan:
1.Attack Marley and assembly the world’s army
2.Organize a coup and gather all his close people in Shiganshina so they would be safe from rumble
3.Get in touch with Zeke and take over Founder titan power
4.Full rumble and genocide all no island’s race
5.Memory wipe all Eldian and rebuild a “free world” without the concept of titan (since Ymir is free assume no new titan would be created)
Type of like the reverse of 145th Eldian’s king
I am sure Admin would be the one to stop him.
 

BigWinnie1

Member
Feb 19, 2018
2,684


I was rereading and this page stood out to me as weird because Why show historia here? And Why is she tearing up at Erens words?

I think at this point her and Eren have already talked and She knows whats coming but also the fact that Eren is also trying to find any possible way out of doing what was already foreseen
 
Oct 27, 2017
814


I was rereading and this page stood out to me as weird because Why show historia here? And Why is she tearing up at Erens words?

I think at this point her and Eren have already talked and She knows whats coming but also the fact that Eren is also trying to find any possible way out of doing what was already foreseen
uh... she's tearing up because she's being forced to breed like cattle so that Eldians can cling onto the power of the titans, and obviously that goes against everything she stood up for during the uprising arc. Eren's trying to find a way to avoid this imprisoning fate for Historia.
 

Dark Knight

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,125
I got to thinking... is the last panel in the new chapter Eren's titan's face? Or is it actually Eren's face? When I first read it, it struck me as the new titan form's monstrous visage.... but it has the typical scarring that the shifter's face usually gets when inside their titan form for a bit, so.....

Could be an artistic take on the two being one in the same, I suppose.
 

nDesh

The Three Eyed Raven
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,018
I’ve been thinking the same, maybe it’s accentuated by the passage of time inside the paths dimension like it happened to Zeke.
 

PogChamp

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,088
Thinking about chapter 122... Eren tells Ymir she's not a slave. Which is a huge departure from everyone else. And he also ponders whether it was Ymir that actually set him on this path.

So Eren is a slave to "the scenery" that he saw, but is he implying that the scenery is Ymir's will which "she decides"?

Can they even talk no jutsu Ymir? They're obviously not going to convince to go back to sculpting all day in PATHS but is there a third option?
 

Zoe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,355
Thinking about chapter 122... Eren tells Ymir she's not a slave. Which is a huge departure from everyone else. And he also ponders whether it was Ymir that actually set him on this path.

So Eren is a slave to "the scenery" that he saw, but is he implying that the scenery is Ymir's will which "she decides"?

Can they even talk no jutsu Ymir? They're obviously not going to convince to go back to sculpting all day in PATHS but is there a third option?
If the Attack Titan is her impulse to fight against something, maybe the Female Titan is her feminine... something. Compassion? Nurture?

It's the only way I can see Annie making a difference.