• We are delighted to introduce GiftBot 2.0, the next generation of our popular gifting feature. To celebrate, we'll be giving away some incredible prizes over the coming weeks in one big Giveaway Extravaganza!

Autistic ERA |OT| Slippin' on by on ASD

OP
OP
JonnyDBrit

JonnyDBrit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,113
I'm starting to see an odd and rather worrying undercurrent of contrarianism in the autistic community that largely amounts to 'Hey, autism speaks isn't so bad!' They've made efforts to improve and they're just trying to help low functioning autistic kids! Who are we to tell them to stop when we don't know what it's like to be low functioning or have to raise a kid like that?' I even saw a post claiming that to be against them is like being against people who are looking for a cure for cancer. Ugh, why do so many people love to compare being autistic to having cancer, including other autistic people?

It's been cropping up way more lately as April gets closer and more posts about acceptance over awareness pops up. I don't know if this is just a weird backlash that's happening due to the need for some people to be contrarian about everything and they feel the need to do so now that hating Autism Speaks is more mainstream than not nowadays, or perhaps some sort of astroturfing is going on to try and make it seem like they're more accepted by the autistic community. I wouldn't put it past them to pull such a thing. Either way, it's a bit distressing to see it becoming more common to defend them when we know how shitty they are. If they want their image to improve then its up to them to prove it to us, nothing more, nothing less.
Honestly, given an argument I had with a couple of Americans a few days ago (one of whom claimed to have an autistic sibling, the other an unspecified disability), and how dismissive one of them was when I attempted to point out the differences between the US and UK in terms of infrastructure and resources for autistic people - and even then, it's not exactly 'great' over here - I think what may be emerging is an attempt to argue that the state of mental healthcare - and particularly autistic care - is, effectively speaking, 'good enough'. That sure, it might suck, but what more can people expect, etc?

On a semi-related note, and due to the same argument, I'm beginning to worry that some may be drawing a wrong conclusion from the whole 'don't blame your disability if you're an asshole' rhetoric that's gotten popular the last few years. Because while it is technically true, I'm finding that some are missing the nuance in how a disability may still affect that, and otherwise how it can provide explanation and context for - though not absolving a person of - misbehaviour or failed comprehension. There is a weird onus being placed entirely on a potentially disabled person to control and regulate themselves, rather than for people around them to make reasonable accommodation or adjustment to expectation in light of that. It reeks of some 'quiet dignity' bullshit where the solution to having a disability is to act and present as if you don't at all. That may be in light of a cultural context where these things are much more readily blamed for wrongdoing in their entirety - ironically and often - so as to make the neurotypical folk feel better, believing themselves physically incapable of true evil, but it's still not a functionally helpful or healthy outlook longterm, I think.

Otherwise, HamsterDude I suspect it's because your evident choices of interest and expression, in the eyes of others, appear overly juvenile and thus, 'worthy' of mockery. Since you mention it being an autism discord particularly, I suspect there's a tinge of gatekeeping and/or elitism going on, because of how this overt interest in such a 'childish' thing as hamsters, to the point of developing a game about them, aligns with stereotypes about autistic people - particularly 'low functioning' autistic people - as being mentally akin to a child. If you do rejoin, or have already rejoined, the server, I would at least be wary. Don't want you going back into that if the mods are going to do nothing about actually keeping people from harassing you for something as harmless as liking hamsters.
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,557
Honestly, given an argument I had with a couple of Americans a few days ago (one of whom claimed to have an autistic sibling, the other an unspecified disability), and how dismissive one of them was when I attempted to point out the differences between the US and UK in terms of infrastructure and resources for autistic people - and even then, it's not exactly 'great' over here - I think what may be emerging is an attempt to argue that the state of mental healthcare - and particularly autistic care - is, effectively speaking, 'good enough'. That sure, it might suck, but what more can people expect, etc?
Can't speak for the UK, but here in the US I see people all the time who down play the struggles of people with mental health issues and disabled people. I also see some Americans who think are healthcare system is perfect and doesn't need to charge. Almost always people who make more than enough to pay for their healthcare of course.

I want to say I feel like it's getting better as more and more people realize how fucked it is for others out there, but I don't have proof or anything like that.
 

HamsterDude

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
122
Otherwise, HamsterDude I suspect it's because your evident choices of interest and expression, in the eyes of others, appear overly juvenile and thus, 'worthy' of mockery. Since you mention it being an autism discord particularly, I suspect there's a tinge of gatekeeping and/or elitism going on, because of how this overt interest in such a 'childish' thing as hamsters, to the point of developing a game about them, aligns with stereotypes about autistic people - particularly 'low functioning' autistic people - as being mentally akin to a child. If you do rejoin, or have already rejoined, the server, I would at least be wary. Don't want you going back into that if the mods are going to do nothing about actually keeping people from harassing you for something as harmless as liking hamsters.
Thank you very much!

Might be unrelated, but this talk of hamsters being childish reminds me of back at my parents house when they went around asking the family what tattoo they'd get if we got a tattoo, and when it was finally my turn to answer, I said if I had to get a tattoo I suppose it'd be of my hamster character Martial Artist Abu. Then they kept saying that's not "manly" and yelled at me for wanting to get a tattoo that's not "manly" enough. But I think my Martial Artist Abu hamster character is cool.
 
OP
OP
JonnyDBrit

JonnyDBrit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,113
Thank you very much!

Might be unrelated, but this talk of hamsters being childish reminds me of back at my parents house when they went around asking the family what tattoo they'd get if we got a tattoo, and when it was finally my turn to answer, I said if I had to get a tattoo I suppose it'd be of my hamster character Martial Artist Abu. Then they kept saying that's not "manly" and yelled at me for wanting to get a tattoo that's not "manly" enough. But I think my Martial Artist Abu hamster character is cool.
Part of that is also the lack of recognition of Abu as anything meaningful or important. He quite evidently means a lot to you, but without them being part of a published work, or even drawn by a professional artist, along with no wider cultural context - ie, as compared to say, dragons or skulls - make people confused as to why you would pick it over anything else.

Because of course, that it matters to you somehow can't be good enough.
 

HamsterDude

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
122
Ahhhh

I don't know what to say to that

he's the main star in the app I'm making called "Talk to a Hamster" where if someone feels anxious, depressed, or lonely they can Talk to this Hamster chatbot.

My wireless mouse is barely working uuugh I'm just in the other room I wish it was working better, I'm trying to post an image but my mouse is barely working from this distance.

Reaaally barely working it won't even move right now.

Alright I moved the computer in front of the door and after the wires kept falling out of my computer I had to keep plugging it in but now the wireless strength is a bit better again.

ok my mouse still won't move maybe the battery died. Oh there it goes.


I'm buying these drawings from Britzmark for $10 each plus I'm gonna throw in a tip.

And I'm having a model developed for him too by outside sources for the virtual reality hamster clubhouse visual novel game I was making.


Unfortunately the modeler I hired on Fiverr to make that for me kept forgetting things on the model and charging me lots of extra money to add it. I want to ask him to add whiskers, but I'm sure he'll charge me money for it so I'm just gonna look for a different modeler.

And I also want to make a platformer game where you can do combo attacks too. (I'm well aware that there's a game like that being made already for the Switch. The character even looks a bit similar to mine. I came up with the idea first I think. I wonder if they ripped the idea off from me. :o)
(I didn't make that btw I hired someone on Fiverr to make that for me like 2 and a half years ago, but I didn't have enough money to ask him to finish the graphic sheet or something I forget what happened.)

It'd be like my Abu Land Stencyl game that if anyone still has Flash (I sure don't) you can play it on the strencyl site. In that game, even if you fall off a cliff, you don't die, instead falling down usually leads to a door that takes you to an alternative level.
 
OP
OP
JonnyDBrit

JonnyDBrit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,113
Ahhhh

I don't know what to say to that

he's the main star in the app I'm making called "Talk to a Hamster" where if someone feels anxious, depressed, or lonely they can Talk to this Hamster chatbot.

My wireless mouse is barely working uuugh I'm just in the other room I wish it was working better, I'm trying to post an image but my mouse is barely working from this distance.

Reaaally barely working it won't even move right now.

Alright I moved the computer in front of the door and after the wires kept falling out of my computer I had to keep plugging it in but now the wireless strength is a bit better again.

ok my mouse still won't move maybe the battery died. Oh there it goes.


I'm buying these drawings from Britzmark for $10 each plus I'm gonna throw in a tip.

And I'm having a model developed for him too by outside sources for the virtual reality hamster clubhouse visual novel game I was making.


Unfortunately the modeler I hired on Fiverr to make that for me kept forgetting things on the model and charging me lots of extra money to add it. I want to ask him to add whiskers, but I'm sure he'll charge me money for it so I'm just gonna look for a different modeler.

And I also want to make a platformer game where you can do combo attacks too. (I'm well aware that there's a game like that being made already for the Switch. The character even looks a bit similar to mine. I came up with the idea first I think. I wonder if they ripped the idea off from me. :o)
(I didn't make that btw I hired someone on Fiverr to make that for me like 2 and a half years ago, but I didn't have enough money to ask him to finish the graphic sheet or something I forget what happened.)

It'd be like my Abu Land Stencyl game that if anyone still has Flash (I sure don't) you can play it on the strencyl site. In that game, even if you fall off a cliff, you don't die, instead falling down usually leads to a door that takes you to an alternative level.
See, now that you've explained it all like that, that's pretty neat stuff. I do hope you develop out the concept. If nothing else, having your own game/app under your belt is both a sign of your determination to create, but also your skills in actually putting that stuff together. I can't code to save my life, so power to you.
 

HamsterDude

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
122
I hope you're all having a nice day

I had a bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad day

I felt bad and vented the whole morning and afternoon both offline and online about people calling me a "lolcow"

then when I finally relaxed by playing the 4Chan team fortress 2 server I vented to them about the Autism discord calling me a lolcow and they KEPT MAKING FUN OF ME saying I'm a lolcow

AND THEY DID THE SAME THING AS EVERY TIME I PLAY IT

they say that I'm a "drunk" because I get a 12 pack on fridays and drink 2 or 3 beers on weekend nights when playing the 4chan team fortress 2 server with my best online friends and they kept making fun of me the entire night

then they said "don't do that thing you do where you vent and rant" on the 4chan server's Steam group chat where I was venting that I felt very bad that people on the team fortress 2 server made fun of me and said I'm a drunk for drinking two beers when all I did was vent to my best friends on tf2 that people on an autism server called me a lolcow and

lots of people there said they're drinking vodka and whiskey but they still said I "drink too much" and I said I drink only two beers and the person there that always provokes me every time said to quit drinking altogether but

My mom yelled at me on the phone and I was yelling and hitting my head offline and screaming very loudly offline while talking a walk because my mom was harassing me and my brother agree'd and I told the 4chan that in response to them saying that to explain my situation and they that proves I'm an alcoholic that uses beer on weekend nights as my medication and yet they said they're drinking whiskey and they said how much is too much and they said "As long as you don't become Abu-tier" which means me cuz I'm called Abu on steam and

then I micspammed cool Japanese music from the Osu! game from Nintendo DS and after not saying anything for an hour, suddenly the guy that provoked me said "Just so you know, that one guy that said its ok if you drink two beers when you play with us was only saying that for entertainment and its not ok if you drink beer when you play with us" even though the person saying that often drinks whiskey or vodka when he plays that server and

I explained further to him that I babysat my nephew for 4 hours and my brother didn't even say thank you to me he just talked to my nephew instead and I already told my mom before that's on her "deathbed" she told me, that it seems like my brother is replacing me with my Nephew cuz he always calls him "brother" all the time

and I told the 4chan team fortress 2 server that I have no friends offline and that they're my only friends but they kept making fun of me and they asked if I have aspergers or autism and I said I do and someone said "that explains everything" finally but that was after the guy that provokes me left and I'm afraid he'll provoke me again when I play Casual Saturday with them tomorrow night

aaaah and my head still hurts from hitting it and screaming at my mom loudly on the phone outside

What happened with my mom although I'm very exhausted from venting about this on a Discord server is..

she called and said she ordered pizza to get delivered to me and chicken wings too with spicey sauce and I was happy. She said "it won't be there for like two hours though so you should take a walk now if you're gonna" so I took a walk playing Pokemon Go

she called when I was at the comic book store that's also a Pokemon Gym and I told her 3 times I just beat the pokemon gym and am heading back but she kept yelling at me still saying I need to head back because the food's gonna arrive and I said "I JUST TOLD YOU THREE TIMES I BEAT THE POKEMON GYM I REALLY DID BEAT THE POKEMON GYM" but she said "you never said you left" and I said "BUT I DID JUST SAY I BEAT THE POKEMON GYM OF COURSE I'M HEADING BACK" and I left the comic book store and was heading back

then she called me again and yelled "OK BYE" really loudly at me

I called back and said "I'm sorry" and she did the same thing as every time she calls me of saying "YOU SHOULD BE SORRY, I'm trying to be nice and you keep BITCHING at me"

I asked her how did I bitch at her? I have no idea and she told me "I forgot" then I kept calling her over and over asking what I did to bitch at her and she told me to just "drop it" and I kept screaming "WHY DID YOU SAY I BITCHED AT YOU THEN, I KEPT VENTING ONLINE THE WHOLE DAY THAT I FEEL BAD THAT PEOPLE ONLINE CALL ME A BAD PERSON AND A LOLCOW, HOW DID I BITCH AT YOU JUST NOW!!??!?!?!?!" and she said "I forgot. Just drop it." and I kept screaming very loudly and hitting my head while walking back home and the people walking by me kept saying sorry if they're bothering me

and I kept not talking on the 4chan team fortress 2 server I didn't even vote for maps when they asked.

When they finally got to the VERY VERY boring Toehoe mansion map that's boring to me, I said "I hope you're all having a nice day, I feel bad cuz I joined a Discord server for people with autism and they called me a Lolcow" and that's when the guy kept provoking me saying I shouldn't drink two or three beers when I play the 4chan team fortress 2 server because I vent too much about personal issues and that no one wants to hear it and they kept provoking me about it

I hate being a bother to people, aaaah!!

AAACK and on a support discord where people vent and give hug reactions, these two people do not give me a hug reaction to my vents but they do it to other peoples vents, I don't get why I don't get as much hug reactions when I vent there as everyone else does, aaaah
 

Yunsen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,175
Trying to get sympathy from anything related to 4chan sounds like a very bad idea to me. Do you go to a psychiatrist to help you deal with some of your frustration? If not, I would recommend it as trying to find online chat rooms doesn’t seem to be working.
 

Hey

Member
Feb 19, 2018
2,868
Does anyone know how to deal with public speaking in front of big group of people ? Possibly 70+.
I practiced everything I wanna say I tried to take off my mind before speaking ,I exercised before speaking I literally tried everything but my brain goes panic mode and I start to embarrass my self in front of all those people..... I can't stop this panic mode no matter what I do or think.
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,557
Those 4chan guys sound pretty mean for supposedly being your friends.

Does anyone know how to deal with public speaking in front of big group of people ? Possibly 70+.
I practiced everything I wanna say I tried to take off my mind before speaking ,I exercised before speaking I literally tried everything but my brain goes panic mode and I start to embarrass my self in front of all those people..... I can't stop this panic mode no matter what I do or think.
If you can find a friend or family member I recommend practicing in front of them.

Just keep practicing and you'll probably be fine. Fear of public speaking is pretty common and most people are pretty understanding.
 

TaySan

Member
Dec 10, 2018
4,796
I hope you're all having a nice day

I had a bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad day

I felt bad and vented the whole morning and afternoon both offline and online about people calling me a "lolcow"

then when I finally relaxed by playing the 4Chan team fortress 2 server I vented to them about the Autism discord calling me a lolcow and they KEPT MAKING FUN OF ME saying I'm a lolcow

AND THEY DID THE SAME THING AS EVERY TIME I PLAY IT

they say that I'm a "drunk" because I get a 12 pack on fridays and drink 2 or 3 beers on weekend nights when playing the 4chan team fortress 2 server with my best online friends and they kept making fun of me the entire night

then they said "don't do that thing you do where you vent and rant" on the 4chan server's Steam group chat where I was venting that I felt very bad that people on the team fortress 2 server made fun of me and said I'm a drunk for drinking two beers when all I did was vent to my best friends on tf2 that people on an autism server called me a lolcow and

lots of people there said they're drinking vodka and whiskey but they still said I "drink too much" and I said I drink only two beers and the person there that always provokes me every time said to quit drinking altogether but

My mom yelled at me on the phone and I was yelling and hitting my head offline and screaming very loudly offline while talking a walk because my mom was harassing me and my brother agree'd and I told the 4chan that in response to them saying that to explain my situation and they that proves I'm an alcoholic that uses beer on weekend nights as my medication and yet they said they're drinking whiskey and they said how much is too much and they said "As long as you don't become Abu-tier" which means me cuz I'm called Abu on steam and

then I micspammed cool Japanese music from the Osu! game from Nintendo DS and after not saying anything for an hour, suddenly the guy that provoked me said "Just so you know, that one guy that said its ok if you drink two beers when you play with us was only saying that for entertainment and its not ok if you drink beer when you play with us" even though the person saying that often drinks whiskey or vodka when he plays that server and

I explained further to him that I babysat my nephew for 4 hours and my brother didn't even say thank you to me he just talked to my nephew instead and I already told my mom before that's on her "deathbed" she told me, that it seems like my brother is replacing me with my Nephew cuz he always calls him "brother" all the time

and I told the 4chan team fortress 2 server that I have no friends offline and that they're my only friends but they kept making fun of me and they asked if I have aspergers or autism and I said I do and someone said "that explains everything" finally but that was after the guy that provokes me left and I'm afraid he'll provoke me again when I play Casual Saturday with them tomorrow night

aaaah and my head still hurts from hitting it and screaming at my mom loudly on the phone outside

What happened with my mom although I'm very exhausted from venting about this on a Discord server is..

she called and said she ordered pizza to get delivered to me and chicken wings too with spicey sauce and I was happy. She said "it won't be there for like two hours though so you should take a walk now if you're gonna" so I took a walk playing Pokemon Go

she called when I was at the comic book store that's also a Pokemon Gym and I told her 3 times I just beat the pokemon gym and am heading back but she kept yelling at me still saying I need to head back because the food's gonna arrive and I said "I JUST TOLD YOU THREE TIMES I BEAT THE POKEMON GYM I REALLY DID BEAT THE POKEMON GYM" but she said "you never said you left" and I said "BUT I DID JUST SAY I BEAT THE POKEMON GYM OF COURSE I'M HEADING BACK" and I left the comic book store and was heading back

then she called me again and yelled "OK BYE" really loudly at me

I called back and said "I'm sorry" and she did the same thing as every time she calls me of saying "YOU SHOULD BE SORRY, I'm trying to be nice and you keep BITCHING at me"

I asked her how did I bitch at her? I have no idea and she told me "I forgot" then I kept calling her over and over asking what I did to bitch at her and she told me to just "drop it" and I kept screaming "WHY DID YOU SAY I BITCHED AT YOU THEN, I KEPT VENTING ONLINE THE WHOLE DAY THAT I FEEL BAD THAT PEOPLE ONLINE CALL ME A BAD PERSON AND A LOLCOW, HOW DID I BITCH AT YOU JUST NOW!!??!?!?!?!" and she said "I forgot. Just drop it." and I kept screaming very loudly and hitting my head while walking back home and the people walking by me kept saying sorry if they're bothering me

and I kept not talking on the 4chan team fortress 2 server I didn't even vote for maps when they asked.

When they finally got to the VERY VERY boring Toehoe mansion map that's boring to me, I said "I hope you're all having a nice day, I feel bad cuz I joined a Discord server for people with autism and they called me a Lolcow" and that's when the guy kept provoking me saying I shouldn't drink two or three beers when I play the 4chan team fortress 2 server because I vent too much about personal issues and that no one wants to hear it and they kept provoking me about it

I hate being a bother to people, aaaah!!

AAACK and on a support discord where people vent and give hug reactions, these two people do not give me a hug reaction to my vents but they do it to other peoples vents, I don't get why I don't get as much hug reactions when I vent there as everyone else does, aaaah
Just avoid 4chan those guys are just trying to Troll you into a reaction. I'm sorry what happened to you :(
 

Hey

Member
Feb 19, 2018
2,868
Those 4chan guys sound pretty mean for supposedly being your friends.



If you can find a friend or family member I recommend practicing in front of them.

Just keep practicing and you'll probably be fine. Fear of public speaking is pretty common and most people are pretty understanding.
All family in a different country. The thing is about public speaking I hear its a common thing but I never seen anyone panic as bad as I do.
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,557
All family in a different country. The thing is about public speaking I hear its a common thing but I never seen anyone panic as bad as I do.
Maybe do it over Skype or something?

Trust me, you'll be okay. I have family that has to do the same exact thing every 3 months and they still get nervous.
 

TaySan

Member
Dec 10, 2018
4,796
Does it ever bother anyone when someone clearly speaks to you differently than they would to a NT person? I know they mean well, but it's still hurtful :/
 
OP
OP
JonnyDBrit

JonnyDBrit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,113
Does it ever bother anyone when someone clearly speaks to you differently than they would to a NT person? I know they mean well, but it's still hurtful :/
Varies. In some instances I'm fine with it since they're trying to make sure I understand and all that - end result is functionally useful for both parties. In others however, they either overcompensate or don't really get what my particular issues on speech and clarity are, and so it feels less like they're accommodating me, and more like they're belittling me.
 

FeistyBoots

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,845
Southern California
Hey all, just wanted to give an update - after having my suspicions dismissed by my therapist, psychologist and psychiatrist I went outside my insurance provider to get assessed for ASD using the ADOS and a series of interviews.

I got the results yesterday - I am indeed autistic.
 
OP
OP
JonnyDBrit

JonnyDBrit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,113
Hey all, just wanted to give an update - after having my suspicions dismissed by my therapist, psychologist and psychiatrist I went outside my insurance provider to get assessed for ASD using the ADOS and a series of interviews.

I got the results yesterday - I am indeed autistic.
Figured, and am glad that you have the official diagnosis. I hope it helps you both in navigating your life in general, but also in gaining any further support you may seek
 
OP
OP
JonnyDBrit

JonnyDBrit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,113
This article is great! I'm a writer (been writing stories for decades now) and I've always struggled with this without knowing it! I can't believe my writing partner and I got so close at Dimension and Legendary when I've had this issue all along - but this means I can now fix it!!

https://www.writingforums.org/articles/writing-neurotypical-characters-a-guide-for-people-with-autism-and-asperger-syndrome/
A good enough and general guide, but man does the section on including autistic characters feel... frustratingly underdeveloped, and that is one of my personal bugbears at the moment. Like, I've got a more indulgent side project where the main character is meant to be autistic and it's just... weirdly difficult to do.
 

FeistyBoots

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,845
Southern California
A good enough and general guide, but man does the section on including autistic characters feel... frustratingly underdeveloped, and that is one of my personal bugbears at the moment. Like, I've got a more indulgent side project where the main character is meant to be autistic and it's just... weirdly difficult to do.
Part of that might be because of the truism that everyone on the spectrum is different! I hope you work it out and share your discoveries with others. <3
 

Raina

Member
Oct 25, 2017
677
Sup, I'm probably autistic. I tried to get officially diagnosed three times before giving up because of how complicated the process was. But I guess if I tried to get diagnosed that many times, I'm probably autistic. I got bullied at school and was called autistic by classmates because of the way I acted, but my relatives aren't having it. They say I'm just being ridiculous for thinking I'm autistic etc.

i have tics, do the leg thing, make noises sometimes and like to intensely focus on small things

But because my family thought 'deadname can't be autistic, they're fine' they convinced me to think the same

I sway when I'm nervous and constantly say 'yeah' while people are talking

I physically can't feel empathy for others IRL but I can over the internet and fictional characters

example: didn't react at all when my grandfather passed despite everyone else around me crying, and I didn't know why they were so upset. Not because I was a dick but because that part of my brain wasn't there I guess. I didn't get it. Meanwhile fanfics regularly make me cry.

I cling onto other worlds for dear life as a form of escapism and write stories with others.Most of whom are also autistic.
 
OP
OP
JonnyDBrit

JonnyDBrit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,113
Sup, I'm probably autistic. I tried to get officially diagnosed three times before giving up because of how complicated the process was. But I guess if I tried to get diagnosed that many times, I'm probably autistic. I got bullied at school and was called autistic by classmates because of the way I acted, but my relatives aren't having it. They say I'm just being ridiculous for thinking I'm autistic etc.

i have tics, do the leg thing, make noises sometimes and like to intensely focus on small things

But because my family thought 'deadname can't be autistic, they're fine' they convinced me to think the same

I sway when I'm nervous and constantly say 'yeah' while people are talking

I physically can't feel empathy for others IRL but I can over the internet and fictional characters

example: didn't react at all when my grandfather passed despite everyone else around me crying, and I didn't know why they were so upset. Not because I was a dick but because that part of my brain wasn't there I guess. I didn't get it. Meanwhile fanfics regularly make me cry.

I cling onto other worlds for dear life as a form of escapism and write stories with others.Most of whom are also autistic.
While obviously a formal diagnosis is ideal, as several of our members can attest, getting it can be an absolute pain, so no worries. Hope the thread can help you in whatever way is needed.

By 'the leg thing', do you mean rocking it up and down?
 

Raina

Member
Oct 25, 2017
677
While obviously a formal diagnosis is ideal, as several of our members can attest, getting it can be an absolute pain, so no worries. Hope the thread can help you in whatever way is needed.

By 'the leg thing', do you mean rocking it up and down?
Yeah. Subconsciously. Usually my left leg.
 

CatDoggo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
565
So, what do you do when a lifelong special interest of yours jumps the shark so hard that you can't willingly support it anymore? This is about the big Pokemon controversy going on right now and I won't go into it too much or else this is going to become an essay sized post about all the ways they're fucking over long time fans right now. I know Pokemon tends to be a pretty big special interest for a lot of folk in the autistic community too, so I wonder if anyone else is feeling burnt by this as well. It really, really sucks for me. While I'm trying to be a good sport about it and not act too much like a salty, butthurt fan, Pokemon has always been a big part of my life and I genuinely never thought the series would go in a direction I could not support anymore. I thought I'd be playing these games all the way onto my deathbed, and that's exactly how I wanted to go out LOL. No matter how bad things got, at least there was always something Pokemon related for me to look forward to. There's going to be a big hole in my life now, and while I know a lot of people would find that pathetic and easy to mock, that's just how it is with the things that become my autistic obsessions. It was an absolutely massive part of my existence since I was 7, and with what's happening now, it just really fucking sucks.

On a far more depressing note....

I feel like I'm still reeling from the loss of the only two friends I've had over the last three-ish years. It's been about four months since everything went wrong with them and going back to having nobody to talk to has been awful. I hate that all of my friendships seem to end on such awful terms, and the worst part is that I can never tell if I'm the cause or not. Things usually end with them saying or doing some really hurtful things toward me, and I can never tell if I did something that made it justified or not. I try to be open and communicative when problems arise because I am so prone to miscommunication and I like to sort things out if issues crop up, and I do my best not to be a jerk when emotions start running high, but it seems like whenever I try to explain myself, it just makes things worse. After so many failed friendships, I'm starting to feel like I'd be better off just isolating myself further rather than having to deal with the grieving process I always end up going through when a friendship I really invested myself into goes sour in the most painful ways possible. It takes a lot for me to open up, connect with, and begin trusting someone. When they decide they don't like me anymore, it's a real kick to the gut. I'd give anything for a friend who doesn't completely hate me by the end of it, after they finally get me to let my guard down and start being myself rather than a half-baked, barely convincing, human shaped mask. God, what I would not give for just one person who's genuinely happy to have me in their life. In the end, I always end up valuing others far more than they ever value me.

I honestly kinda envy people who've reached a point in their depression that they don't feel anything anymore. I'm always feeling like I have this deep, constant sadness, anxiety, loneliness and self-hatred slowly eating away at me inside. I'm hoping that someday I'll reach a point where I finally and fully accept that I'm always going to be alone in this world and not have to have that truth hurt so much. It does feel like some level of apathy has slowly been setting in though, ever since the last disaster with my friends, and I hope it progresses to a point where I won't feel anything anymore. To not care anymore would be such a relief. It may end up being the only thing that makes this existence bearable. There is no place for me in this world and all I can do is cope until I die or at least finally work up the courage to off myself.

People wonder why depression is such an epidemic nowadays but they refuse to look inwards at this absolute hell of a society that we've created. I wish I could get out, I wish there was something better, but this is all that there is. Any optimism I had slowly got chipped away as it became more and more clear that nothing is going to get better. People are always going to be awful to one another, kindness and empathy are a learned trait that most do not have, and climate change is probably going to kill us all anyway, and now in a depressingly hilarious bit of irony, even my biggest coping method has gone away too, no matter how pathetic it was to lean on something as stupid as that. Every day my outlook on life just becomes bleaker and bleaker. I'm so tired of hurting and being hurt. Of never being understood. Of never feeling like I belong. Of being treated like a worthless burden most of the time. Life is just endless exhaustion and pain, and humanity doesn't seem interested in making things better, no matter how much that bit of useless optimism was pounded into our heads as kids. We'd rather work ourselves to death for our wealthy overlords while forever judging 'the other' instead of striving to make the world a kinder, more accepting place for everyone. That selfish 'fuck you, I got mine' mentality is going to be death of our species and we probably deserve it at this point. No deity is going to come down to save us, and we sure as shit aren't going to save ourselves. I spent a good part of my life trying to be optimistic and trying to see the good in others, but people did a good job grinding that down into whatever the hell I am now. Just a pile of misery and sadness in human form forever being overwhelmed and practically pushed to suicide by a society that doesn't even pretend to want her.

...Somehow this became an essay sized post anyway. Probably should have spent it talking about Pokemon instead. Well, at least the memes are great. There's a good chance I'll probably delete this rant later anyway too. Not like anybody is going to want to read the whiny writing of some rando on the internet. You know, it's kinda funny though. I tend to cope with my social anxiety by being humorous and silly at all times, even though my humor barely ever lands. Most people think I'm a happy person in real life, but I had to learn how to mask my unhappiness thanks to all the mockery my family did and their constant shaming of 'you have nothing to be sad about'. They really ruined me in a lot of ways. It turned me into a massive doormat who can't stand conflict, who tries to de-escalate rising tension with humor out of the sheer anxiety it causes, and who tends to have a very hard time saying 'no' to people out of fear of provoking anger or mockery. Oh well. It feels like my true feeling only get to come out when I'm writing things up for random people on the internet who have no reason to care about some depressed, anxiety ridden failure of a person.
 

Yunsen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,175
I get the point about Pokemon. I’m a bit like that with World of Warcraft. There’s almost nothing Blizzard can do that will make me quit permanently. Even if you’re really down about the changes, you shouldn’t feel guilty about still buying it and trying to enjoy what’s there.
 
OP
OP
JonnyDBrit

JonnyDBrit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,113
And if you aren't able to come to terms with the changes and enjoy what's otherwise there... well, as difficult as it is to say, you may just... have to try and move on. Ease it out, drop hard and recover, or whatever else the case may be. When it turned out an RP group I was in were a bunch of bigots just waiting for their shit to be normalised in the political sphere before they actively said it, I found an excuse to go on hiatus then never came back. Not exactly comparable in terms of subjectiveness or matters of taste - my example smears the whole product, yours is more of a mixed, less inherently offensive bag - but I've given up on numerous interests this way. Then again, many of those I had already lapsed from and so it was less dropping the subjects and more just... sustaining the lack of interest, but now with a conviction. I hadn't gone on Channel Awesome for years before it turned out what a mess that was behind the scenes, so it wasn't exactly much of a triumph to decide I was never gonna go again.

But then, as established, I'm in the sort of circumstances where such changes are easier to manage. I can easily seek out alternatives, as much as the losses may suck. I have enough other, active interests in which to subsequently indulge if one of them becomes too frustrating or problematic to maintain. Equally, it's not as if I've dropped everything to ever become personally or ethically troubling - The Crimes of Grindelwald is far more objectionable on multiple fronts, and while I avoided it in theatres, I did ultimately still watch it (even if because my parents had it) due to it having Newt. It was very rewarding to see Newt in that movie. But that involved weighing such against all the other shit in and behind the movie.

I guess... it'll be something to have to process and figure out
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,557
So, what do you do when a lifelong special interest of yours jumps the shark so hard that you can't willingly support it anymore? This is about the big Pokemon controversy going on right now and I won't go into it too much or else this is going to become an essay sized post about all the ways they're fucking over long time fans right now. I know Pokemon tends to be a pretty big special interest for a lot of folk in the autistic community too, so I wonder if anyone else is feeling burnt by this as well. It really, really sucks for me. While I'm trying to be a good sport about it and not act too much like a salty, butthurt fan, Pokemon has always been a big part of my life and I genuinely never thought the series would go in a direction I could not support anymore. I thought I'd be playing these games all the way onto my deathbed, and that's exactly how I wanted to go out LOL. No matter how bad things got, at least there was always something Pokemon related for me to look forward to. There's going to be a big hole in my life now, and while I know a lot of people would find that pathetic and easy to mock, that's just how it is with the things that become my autistic obsessions. It was an absolutely massive part of my existence since I was 7, and with what's happening now, it just really fucking sucks.

On a far more depressing note....

I feel like I'm still reeling from the loss of the only two friends I've had over the last three-ish years. It's been about four months since everything went wrong with them and going back to having nobody to talk to has been awful. I hate that all of my friendships seem to end on such awful terms, and the worst part is that I can never tell if I'm the cause or not. Things usually end with them saying or doing some really hurtful things toward me, and I can never tell if I did something that made it justified or not. I try to be open and communicative when problems arise because I am so prone to miscommunication and I like to sort things out if issues crop up, and I do my best not to be a jerk when emotions start running high, but it seems like whenever I try to explain myself, it just makes things worse. After so many failed friendships, I'm starting to feel like I'd be better off just isolating myself further rather than having to deal with the grieving process I always end up going through when a friendship I really invested myself into goes sour in the most painful ways possible. It takes a lot for me to open up, connect with, and begin trusting someone. When they decide they don't like me anymore, it's a real kick to the gut. I'd give anything for a friend who doesn't completely hate me by the end of it, after they finally get me to let my guard down and start being myself rather than a half-baked, barely convincing, human shaped mask. God, what I would not give for just one person who's genuinely happy to have me in their life. In the end, I always end up valuing others far more than they ever value me.

I honestly kinda envy people who've reached a point in their depression that they don't feel anything anymore. I'm always feeling like I have this deep, constant sadness, anxiety, loneliness and self-hatred slowly eating away at me inside. I'm hoping that someday I'll reach a point where I finally and fully accept that I'm always going to be alone in this world and not have to have that truth hurt so much. It does feel like some level of apathy has slowly been setting in though, ever since the last disaster with my friends, and I hope it progresses to a point where I won't feel anything anymore. To not care anymore would be such a relief. It may end up being the only thing that makes this existence bearable. There is no place for me in this world and all I can do is cope until I die or at least finally work up the courage to off myself.

People wonder why depression is such an epidemic nowadays but they refuse to look inwards at this absolute hell of a society that we've created. I wish I could get out, I wish there was something better, but this is all that there is. Any optimism I had slowly got chipped away as it became more and more clear that nothing is going to get better. People are always going to be awful to one another, kindness and empathy are a learned trait that most do not have, and climate change is probably going to kill us all anyway, and now in a depressingly hilarious bit of irony, even my biggest coping method has gone away too, no matter how pathetic it was to lean on something as stupid as that. Every day my outlook on life just becomes bleaker and bleaker. I'm so tired of hurting and being hurt. Of never being understood. Of never feeling like I belong. Of being treated like a worthless burden most of the time. Life is just endless exhaustion and pain, and humanity doesn't seem interested in making things better, no matter how much that bit of useless optimism was pounded into our heads as kids. We'd rather work ourselves to death for our wealthy overlords while forever judging 'the other' instead of striving to make the world a kinder, more accepting place for everyone. That selfish 'fuck you, I got mine' mentality is going to be death of our species and we probably deserve it at this point. No deity is going to come down to save us, and we sure as shit aren't going to save ourselves. I spent a good part of my life trying to be optimistic and trying to see the good in others, but people did a good job grinding that down into whatever the hell I am now. Just a pile of misery and sadness in human form forever being overwhelmed and practically pushed to suicide by a society that doesn't even pretend to want her.

...Somehow this became an essay sized post anyway. Probably should have spent it talking about Pokemon instead. Well, at least the memes are great. There's a good chance I'll probably delete this rant later anyway too. Not like anybody is going to want to read the whiny writing of some rando on the internet. You know, it's kinda funny though. I tend to cope with my social anxiety by being humorous and silly at all times, even though my humor barely ever lands. Most people think I'm a happy person in real life, but I had to learn how to mask my unhappiness thanks to all the mockery my family did and their constant shaming of 'you have nothing to be sad about'. They really ruined me in a lot of ways. It turned me into a massive doormat who can't stand conflict, who tries to de-escalate rising tension with humor out of the sheer anxiety it causes, and who tends to have a very hard time saying 'no' to people out of fear of provoking anger or mockery. Oh well. It feels like my true feeling only get to come out when I'm writing things up for random people on the internet who have no reason to care about some depressed, anxiety ridden failure of a person.
TBH I think you and others should wait and see on the Pokemon stuff. There will always be more games in the event this one doesn't turn out great.

As for the part about isolation, I've totally been there and in my experience being socially isolated isn't worth it. It has diminishing returns that set in real damn fast and the pain you feel will get even worse.

I never really had super close friends until college. After I dropped out a lot of my friends got jobs, moved, or transferred to a university so I didn't get to see them nearly as much. I've always been pretty bad maintaining relationships with people I don't see regularly, and discord isn't a good substitute for hanging out in person. I tried just isolating myself for awhile but I just couldn't do it. It made me feel awful and I just started regressing into a worse person.

Find some new friends. Relationships are gonna end and that always sucks, but clamming up in never a solution. I'd also recommend seeking help with your depression if you are able.
 

Ac30

Member
Oct 30, 2017
11,769
London
I've always been pretty bad maintaining relationships with people I don't see regularly, and discord isn't a good substitute for hanging out in person. I tried just isolating myself for awhile but I just couldn't do it. It made me feel awful and I just started regressing into a worse person.

Find some new friends. Relationships are gonna end and that always sucks, but clamming up in never a solution. I'd also recommend seeking help with your depression if you are able.
I've had some close friends over the years but I also lose touch very quickly when either of us move. It just feels awkward and artificial communicating through social media and I'm loathe to be the first to reach out, especially if it's been a while. Wish there was some sort of solution :(
 

CatDoggo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
565
I'm already pretty much in a wait and see mode with Pokemon, although its still bumming me out pretty bad. It just seems like I got hit by a double whammy since lately I've been missing my friends so much.

Therapy isn't an option for me. While living in the middle of nowhere is nice for keeping the cost of living down, that also means there isn't much out here. I don't drive either, so to get help would require having to go to the people who don't believe there is a problem and convince them to drive me somewhere that's probably a good distance away. They give me shit just for asking to get dropped off somewhere across town, they aren't going to help with something like this. And, I dunno, I feel like I wouldn't be able to open up in real life to a therapist either. Plus, I keep hearing horror stories from autistic people who try to get therapy and its kinda clear that most therapists aren't trained to handle the differences of an autistic person compared to their usual NT clients. I know there are some specialists out there, but there's even less of a chance of me getting to one.

And I kinda feel like so many of my misgivings come down to how society is in general, and there's little chance of any of the changing in my lifetime. So I'm just stuck having to deal with everything grinding me down and wearing me out. I doubt there will ever be a point where I don't feel stifled and overwhelmed. Sometimes I wish I could just run off into the wilderness and never come back, but obviously living without a society is just as hard, if not harder. It's damming no matter what I do. If I could just, I dunno, retire to that one cat colony that lives on that one island, that'd be great. Less people to deal with and way more cats to make friends with. For as much as I fail with people, I seem to be able to hit it off with just about any random cat I happen to meet. LOL
 

NoirSuede

Member
Oct 25, 2017
209
I just found out that back in high school, the reason I wasn't expelled for bringing a knife to school was because my parents told my school that I'm a retard.


Idk how to feel...
 
OP
OP
JonnyDBrit

JonnyDBrit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,113
I just found out that back in high school, the reason I wasn't expelled for bringing a knife to school was because my parents told my school that I'm a retard.


Idk how to feel...
Feeling like a bit more context would help here.

That said, I actually have a similar story, though in my case it was a realistic looking BB gun. I'd brought it in thinking to use it in drama class - we were supposed to be doing some home invasion scenario with a gun - but couldn't resist showing it off to friends at break times before then; either way, didn't much think of how waving an apparent Colt M9 around would look. One of the staff spotted us and reported it to the headteacher, who despite being new in the role, quickly realised that we had been behind the school's dedicated asperger's resource unit building - so there might have been a far more innocent misunderstanding at play. Thus rather than get a firearms squad called in on me, a teacher simply pulled me aside, asked about it, and then eventually the thing was disposed of by police.

I realise part of my good fortune is undoubtedly influenced by my being white as well, but considering some autistic folks across the Atlantic have been shot at for having wiimotes and toy trucks...
 

NoirSuede

Member
Oct 25, 2017
209
Feeling like a bit more context would help here.

That said, I actually have a similar story, though in my case it was a realistic looking BB gun. I'd brought it in thinking to use it in drama class - we were supposed to be doing some home invasion scenario with a gun - but couldn't resist showing it off to friends at break times before then; either way, didn't much think of how waving an apparent Colt M9 around would look. One of the staff spotted us and reported it to the headteacher, who despite being new in the role, quickly realised that we had been behind the school's dedicated asperger's resource unit building - so there might have been a far more innocent misunderstanding at play. Thus rather than get a firearms squad called in on me, a teacher simply pulled me aside, asked about it, and then eventually the thing was disposed of by police.

I realise part of my good fortune is undoubtedly influenced by my being white as well, but considering some autistic folks across the Atlantic have been shot at for having wiimotes and toy trucks...
The full full context would get me banned from ERA, but the gist is that during middle school I got bullied so bad that I was forced to strip myself naked in school at one point, so because of that and also because I've watched a ton of US high school shows/movies where wedgies are a bread and butter of bullies, I assumed that bullying in Indonesian high schools would also be as bad and so brought a knife during orientation just in case
 
OP
OP
JonnyDBrit

JonnyDBrit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,113
The full full context would get me banned from ERA, but the gist is that during middle school I got bullied so bad that I was forced to strip myself naked in school at one point, so because of that and also because I've watched a ton of US high school shows/movies where wedgies are a bread and butter of bullies, I assumed that bullying in Indonesian high schools would also be as bad and so brought a knife during orientation just in case
Well yes that js just a tad an oversight. Like, I get the chain of logic generally, but still not exactly the wisest move to make.
 

mentallyinept

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,565
Checking in and subbing to the thread.

My son has ASD, diagnosed at 2.5 years old back in November 2018.

Since then it's been a absolute sprint to get him into everything available (ABA, Early Access Pre-K, and Private Speech Therapy).

It's been going well, but progress is agonizingly slow, as expected.

My wife and I are mostly keeping it together but the emotional toll is very high.

Not sure if I can help anyone else, but I'm willing to share or advise with anyone looking for it.
 

OniLinkPlus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
561
Checking in and subbing to the thread.

My son has ASD, diagnosed at 2.5 years old back in November 2018.

Since then it's been a absolute sprint to get him into everything available (ABA, Early Access Pre-K, and Private Speech Therapy).

It's been going well, but progress is agonizingly slow, as expected.

My wife and I are mostly keeping it together but the emotional toll is very high.

Not sure if I can help anyone else, but I'm willing to share or advise with anyone looking for it.
First thing's first: ABA is child abuse. Get your kid out ASAP. It's commonly described as "dog training for people", but even dog trainers find it repulsive. Far more valuable is letting them be themself.

If you could describe what your kid is like, we could provide more specific advice. Every autistic kid is different. The main thing that makes raising an autistic kid hard is neurotypical parents trying to raise them like a neurotypical kid. Raise them to be themselves, allowing them to have their limitations and strengths unique to them, will make it so much easier and them so much happier.
 

mentallyinept

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,565
First thing's first: ABA is child abuse. Get your kid out ASAP. It's commonly described as "dog training for people", but even dog trainers find it repulsive. Far more valuable is letting them be themself.

If you could describe what your kid is like, we could provide more specific advice. Every autistic kid is different. The main thing that makes raising an autistic kid hard is neurotypical parents trying to raise them like a neurotypical kid. Raise them to be themselves, allowing them to have their limitations and strengths unique to them, will make it so much easier and them so much happier.
I don't even know how to respond to this... I'm acting on the advice and council of doctors and professionals, and here you are telling me that I'm abusing my son.

Why the hell did I even come here?

Fuck this and fuck you.
 

OniLinkPlus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
561
I don't even know how to respond to this... I'm acting on the advice and council of doctors and professionals, and here you are telling me that I'm abusing my son.

Why the hell did I even come here?

Fuck this and fuck you.
I'm not saying you're a bad or abusive parent, I'm saying you were lied to and tricked into an abusive therapy designed to break autistic kids. A lot of [tbh almost all] neurotypicals don't even realize it, but it's highly similar to gay conversion therapy that tries to force gay people to be straight and trans people to be cis. I'm not saying you're a bad parent, I'm saying you came here for advice, and I'd like to help in the interest of making sure your kid is happy and healthy.

I'd recommend doing some reading on the autistic community's perspective. AWNN is a great organization and has an article here.
 
OP
OP
JonnyDBrit

JonnyDBrit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,113
I don't even know how to respond to this... I'm acting on the advice and council of doctors and professionals, and here you are telling me that I'm abusing my son.

Why the hell did I even come here?

Fuck this and fuck you.
While I appreciate the defensive responsive against what you believed to be an accusation against your character as concerning your child, it's not a good look to be immediately dismissive of an actual autistic person raising their concerns about the matter. It's worth bearing in mind that a lot of infrastructure for autistic people, particularly within the US, is still within the shadow of mindsets that seek to 'cure' autism, or otherwise that can make an autistic person 'normal', rather than providing an appropriately developed framework that will see them achieve self-sufficiency (though even this isn't necessarily ideal for every individual) and satisfaction. Even doctors and professionals are afflicted by this bias; especially since the 'system' within nations like the US isn't really such at all; shit is fragmented all over the place. So such concern, particularly from autistic people who such systems failed to recognise or otherwise failed to properly support in their development, isn't just to be dismissed out of hand.
 

mentallyinept

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,565
While I appreciate the defensive responsive against what you believed to be an accusation against your character as concerning your child, it's not a good look to be immediately dismissive of an actual autistic person raising their concerns about the matter. It's worth bearing in mind that a lot of infrastructure for autistic people, particularly within the US, is still within the shadow of mindsets that seek to 'cure' autism, or otherwise that can make an autistic person 'normal', rather than providing an appropriately developed framework that will see them achieve self-sufficiency (though even this isn't necessarily ideal for every individual) and satisfaction. Even doctors and professionals are afflicted by this bias; especially since the 'system' within nations like the US isn't really such at all; shit is fragmented all over the place. So such concern, particularly from autistic people who such systems failed to recognise or otherwise failed to properly support in their development, isn't just to be dismissed out of hand.
They didn't "raise concerns" (whoever they are they are on my block list now), they said I was abusing my child.

Saying that someone is abusing their child for following the advice and council of doctors and trained professionals is fucked up, period. If you want to express concerns about ABA therapies you should speak from your experience. The ABA my son has involves him playing with toys and puzzles at a table for a few hours in the afternoon, learning to clean up after himself, and using PECs symbols to communicate needs and wants. Basic cooperative play, interpersonal communication, and life skills.

I'm under no illusions here. There hasn't been a single professional person involved that has told me that my son would be "cured" or that he would be "normal", ever.

The purpose of these therapies is all about giving my son the best possible chance at a full, independent life.
 
OP
OP
JonnyDBrit

JonnyDBrit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,113
They didn't "raise concerns" (whoever they are they are on my block list now), they said I was abusing my child.

Saying that someone is abusing their child for following the advice and council of doctors and trained professionals is fucked up, period. If you want to express concerns about ABA therapies you should speak from your experience. The ABA my son has involves him playing with toys and puzzles at a table for a few hours in the afternoon, learning to clean up after himself, and using PECs symbols to communicate needs and wants. Basic cooperative play, interpersonal communication, and life skills.

I'm under no illusions here. There hasn't been a single professional person involved that has told me that my son would be "cured" or that he would be "normal", ever.

The purpose of these therapies is all about giving my son the best possible chance at a full, independent life.
They called the practise abusive, not you abusive. You may see that as pedantic, but this is a thread by and for autistic people. It's part of the package.

I would also note that it rather speaks to the general state and infrastructure of autistic care that the first response many within this community, both through personal experience and through what they have learned from their fellow members upon the spectrum, is to view it with fear and concern. While yes, in your specific case, you have current and understandable reason not to view the form of treatment your child is receiving in such a fashion, again, not ideal to not bear the perspectives of actual autistic people in mind. Even if you do disagree with them.
 

mentallyinept

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,565
They called the practise abusive, not you abusive. You may see that as pedantic, but this is a thread by and for autistic people. It's part of the package.

I would also note that it rather speaks to the general state and infrastructure of autistic care that the first response many within this community, both through personal experience and through what they have learned from their fellow members upon the spectrum, is to view it with fear and concern. While yes, in your specific case, you have current and understandable reason not to view the form of treatment your child is receiving in such a fashion, again, not ideal to not bear the perspectives of actual autistic people in mind. Even if you do disagree with them.
...I have misunderstood the point of this thread entirely.

I saw the invitation in the thread on Etcetera about the parent of the 8 year old having issues with social interaction and followed the link here thinking it would be a place where I could speak about my experiences as a parent.

This is intended to be a space for autistic people, not for me.

If you'd like I'll delete my prior posts.
 
OP
OP
JonnyDBrit

JonnyDBrit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,113
...I have misunderstood the point of this thread entirely.

I saw the invitation in the thread on Etcetera about the parent of the 8 year old having issues with social interaction and followed the link here thinking it would be a place where I could speak about my experiences as a parent.

This is intended to be a space for autistic people, not for me.

If you'd like I'll delete my prior posts.
It's fine, it's fine. Honestly it's useful in its own regard because it serves as a demonstration of the sorts of disagreements that can arise, both with regards to the viability of given practises, but also between autistic people (primarily adults in our case, given the general age of forum users) and those caring for autistic people (primarily young children, again given the general age of forum users). Because one of the things with this thread - and admittedly the main reason why I posted that link in that thread - is to have it serve as a place where one can observe and try to gain understanding, even if they choose not to post, though they are free to. And like, you're not going to have a full understanding of autism without at least some awareness of the messy discourse surrounding it, whatever conclusions you draw from it.

I'm sorry that your entry into this thread had to be met in such a hostile fashion. You are, as you say, trying your best to ensure that your child to grow up to lead a full and independent life - implicitly, doing what you can while they have to lean on your for support, so that they will not need to as the passage of time takes its course and claims us all. My parents did that for me, and I do appreciate that sentiment. Just... please try to understand why some people are wary of some of the ways in which such support is given. In a way, it'll give you an idea of what to keep an eye out for when it comes to the support your child will receive over time. Because after all, the help they get at 2.5 (or possibly 3, given that's from when they were diagnosed in November) years of age may not be the support they receive at 8 or 16, nor may it be proscribed by the same people with the same awareness of the fact that fundamentally, even if an unusual brand thereof, we are human.

I wish you all the best in doing right by him.
 

mentallyinept

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,565
It's fine, it's fine. Honestly it's useful in its own regard because it serves as a demonstration of the sorts of disagreements that can arise, both with regards to the viability of given practises, but also between autistic people (primarily adults in our case, given the general age of forum users) and those caring for autistic people (primarily young children, again given the general age of forum users). Because one of the things with this thread - and admittedly the main reason why I posted that link in that thread - is to have it serve as a place where one can observe and try to gain understanding, even if they choose not to post, though they are free to. And like, you're not going to have a full understanding of autism without at least some awareness of the messy discourse surrounding it, whatever conclusions you draw from it.

I'm sorry that your entry into this thread had to be met in such a hostile fashion. You are, as you say, trying your best to ensure that your child to grow up to lead a full and independent life - implicitly, doing what you can while they have to lean on your for support, so that they will not need to as the passage of time takes its course and claims us all. My parents did that for me, and I do appreciate that sentiment. Just... please try to understand why some people are wary of some of the ways in which such support is given. In a way, it'll give you an idea of what to keep an eye out for when it comes to the support your child will receive over time. Because after all, the help they get at 2.5 (or possibly 3, given that's from when they were diagnosed in November) years of age may not be the support they receive at 8 or 16, nor may it be proscribed by the same people with the same awareness of the fact that fundamentally, even if an unusual brand thereof, we are human.

I wish you all the best in doing right by him.
Thank you for continuing to engage me JonnyDBrit.

I've chilled out a bit, and un-ignored OniLinkPlus and I've read the article you linked.

All I can say is that the difference between what I'm reading from Amy Sequenzia in that article and what I see my child experiencing is night and day.

Maybe because they are almost solely focused on communication instead of trying to "stop" or "fix" other behaviors? All they are doing is playing with toys, cleaning up said toys, and doing puzzles. Honestly, if anything I've questioned whether it's doing anything at all for him.
 
OP
OP
JonnyDBrit

JonnyDBrit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,113
Thank you for continuing to engage me JonnyDBrit.

I've chilled out a bit, and un-ignored OniLinkPlus and I've read the article you linked.

All I can say is that the difference between what I'm reading from Amy Sequenzia in that article and what I see my child experiencing is night and day.

Maybe because they are almost solely focused on communication instead of trying to "stop" or "fix" other behaviors? All they are doing is playing with toys, cleaning up said toys, and doing puzzles. Honestly, if anything I've questioned whether it's doing anything at all for him.
Quite possible, whether because of the stage at which this is occurring - you're not going to 'fix' much with a toddler, autistic or otherwise - or because of shifts in general practises over time. After all, a lot of adult autistic people are having to relay their experiences - their traumas - from their childhoods, which are sometimes decades ago. This doesn't mean that the forms of ABA with which they are most familiar have necessarily gone away, or aren't a concern anymore, but it is possible that changes in mindset nevertheless applied under the same umbrella - because you know, language is funny like that sometimes - have eased their way in. After all, the outright definition of autism has changed within the US within the last decade - under the DSM-V, hotly debated by those affected by such changes - and a number within this thread can speak to the inconsistencies in the treatments they've received; some doctors telling them there was no way they were autistic while others thought it was quite obvious, because each was operating on a differing clinical definition.

That unfortunately is one of the big threads that runs through the treatment of autism, both within the US, the UK as where I am, and the world globally - there is a simple lack of standards, both in the sense of quality but also in the sense of consistent understanding. Not helped that, if you're having to spend hundreds or thousands - in some cases, hundreds of thousands - of dollars or the equivalent thereof upon treatment, whether for yourself or for your loved ones, you don't want to feel like you've bought into something ineffectual, or worse, harmful. And that makes actually discussing the merits of any given methods difficult because they're tangled up in webs of sunk cost fallacies, successes vs failures, and just... differences in definition that are assumed but often not clarified. You're already seeing how frustrating it can be to navigate on someone else's behalf, so I hope you can sympathise with how difficult it can be navigate for one's self.

And like, I say all that from a relatively fortunate position. I am open to the general broad idea of some degree of conditioning because I can recognise treatments vaguely along those lines that have functionally proven useful to me - I have this little hand gesture for example which basically pavlovs me into calming down, and I had to use that when dealing with my phobia of crisps - as delivered by clearly competent staff who truly wished the best for me. That is, unfortunately, not what a lot of people in this thread, and around the world, have received.