AV Club: Turns out Colin Trevorrow's version of Star Wars: Episode IX was good, actually

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,603
Is it perfect? No, there is some dumb stuff in there...

But it still sounds waaaaaaaaaay better then what we got.
 

demondance

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,796
It's almost like removing a key component from your trilogy without a plan is a bad idea.

I remember getting shit on GAF for saying removing him was a terrible call. Literally 2 pages of people quoting me telling me I was an idiot.
at least if they were gonna do this improvised trilogy with multiple directors thing, why not get a third random A-list director on board?

TRoS feels more like a massive petty response to TLJ spinning things in a different direction than it does a movie.

Yeah, this script seems far from a home run, too.

Also starting with a Rose mission and ending on Mortis like, sounded off all the "this is just fan fiction and probably not real" alarms. This seems credible though, as per AV Club!
honestly, a reasonable sequel to TLJ would include Rose more than TRoS did.
 

Shaun Solo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
728
Will echo everyone saying this sounds better than TROS but still not great.

My biggest takeaway is both Abrams and Treverrow drop the ball in regards to Finn's arc. How did neither of them think of a Stormtrooper insurrection led by Finn?

Also feels like it could've done more with Hux.

Kylo killing Rey's parents is dumb.
 

Sendero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
287
Assuming it's real, it also sounds like 2-movies-in-1 (the whole Coruscant should take quite a bit of a single movie by itself).

Not a fan of the Star Destroyer stealing or Palp's teacher, but stuff like Rey's 2H weapon, rebels trying destabilization tactics, Rose's tech expertise being critical, Knights of Ren being a thing, Mortis plane, Coruscant's Jedi Temple ruins, Luke actively trying to help both Rey/Kylo, Leiah organizing, Lando/Chewie doing their thing and Rey having both self doubts and concerns about the Jedi's way, it all make sense and have precedents.

It sort of lacks a strong hook, although Mortis itself would have worked if done right.
Kind of odd that the script didn't take the Jedi books in consideration. The description miss stuff, like what it meant for scene, that Kylo actually killed Rey's parents.
Finally, both scripts are built at the shadow of Vader, yet neither bother to involve ghost Anakin, or even tackle what his actions meant in the overall scheme.


Carrie's death meant that the script would have required intense rewrites, but the overall concept is not terrible.
Certainly better than what we got.


Behind-the-Scenes dripping keeps coming.
 
Last edited:

Matt

The Terror that Flaps in the Night
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
3,795
It's a better treatment than RoS is a movie, but this couldn't really be made as written even if everyone at Lucas was 100% behind every single idea. It's incredibly overstuffed.

But actually following up on TLJ is great and that's exactly what should have happened.
 

Bonefish

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,455
This sounds so much better and manages to add to the lore, bring us back to prequel era planets as well as not shit on the legacy of the prior movies.

the fucking irony.

in the end this whole trilogy was crippled from the start thanks to the mediocre af TFA.
 

Syder

The Moyes are Back in Town
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
11,721
at least if they were gonna do this improvised trilogy with multiple directors thing, why not get a third random A-list director on board?

TRoS feels more like a massive petty response to TLJ spinning things in a different direction than it does a movie.
No matter who they got there should have been a guiding hand working with all the directors, there should've been constant communication and collaboration between them.
 

Metallix87

Member
Nov 1, 2017
9,713
I appreciate Ren not being ~~~redeemed~~~ in this version of the film. TRoS is basically the worst possible decision at every turn for my money, and I legitimately cannot decide what decision I hate the most. But using Ren as Rey's fucking force twin is right up there. I actually thought TLJ went the right way with what was set up in TFA. Yeah, he's a sniveling manchild in TFA, and TLJ was very clear eyed about how absolutely terrifying that can be. I would have loved that to be studied more than flushing all of that down the toilet for a fucking kiss. Jesus Christ.
My problem is TRoS makes it seem like he shouldn't be redeemed, but is, whereas this script is the reverse.
 

demondance

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,796
Treverrow’s unwillingness to redeem Kylo is probably why he left the film, right? Given that we know redemption was basically a LFG mandate
My dumb reaction to this is that the redemption of Kylo Ren is the closest thing this has to a trilogy, but at the same time, telling a story where a Skywalker really is irredeemably given over to the dark side would probably be a better idea overall than the movie we got.
 

lobdale

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,130
Even if true sounds way more boring than what we got and still doesn't address many of the problems many seem to have with TRoS.
 
Dec 12, 2017
9,686
Assuming this script was real, i like it a lot better.

No Palpatine and Rose integrated into the plot.

Stealing the Star Destroyer sounds fun.

Lovecraftian Sith oldster sounds more interesting than a Palpatine redux.

That's a great line.
Yes it is. I can hear Daisy in my head, saying it.

I also like her line to Finn about Kylo not truly being gone.
 

♡♪!?

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,373
Some of that is meh. But Kylo should never have been redeemed. And could've gotten this:


Kotor knights of the fallen empire dude

It sounds better.
Duel of the Fates is a better title too.
They could have worked with that script. Make Poe and Finn the leaders of the Resistance to replace Carrie.
Having another big bad instead of just making Kylo the antagonist is stupid though. If you aren't going to redeem him at least make him the villain 100%.



100%. It was not a great start.
I don't like Duel of the Fates as a name, it's just too jarring when that's a motif of the prequel trilogy.
 

Naijaboy

The Fallen
Mar 13, 2018
3,783


There's a good chance that Colin will scree up the execution, but at least this script has followup like Rey's double-sided lightsaber or Luke haunting Kylo. And Kylo gets to be supreme leader while trying to become greater than any Jedi or Sith in his own destructive way. This looks like a decent movie with some tweeks.
 
Last edited:

KingSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,493
It's not perfect, but it has some really nice ideas that could have been built upon. The resistance would actually do something other than just be there as a background for Rey/Kylo story. Rey could actually have her own personality and not just an inheritance. I like these bits:

Rey to Luke as they train: "Balance? The dark suffocates the light, light extinguishes the dark. Over and over and over again. How is that balance in the force?"

Luke: "I know that anger. My father had it too.'

Rey: "So says my master and his master before him. A thousand masters so eager to tell us how to live."
Before Rey leaves, she and Leia have an exchange were Rey says she believes there's still good in Kylo. Leia is skeptical, but Rey believes in her Jedi Training. Leia: "You're not like my father or my brother. You're new. Whatever happens, remember the force choose you Rey. You're story isn't written by anyone else."

But yeah, we got the dead speak and fuck.
 

Matt

The Terror that Flaps in the Night
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
3,795
Actually thinking about this, there is a lot that can be cut.

Like the entire Kylo subplot. He doesn't need to search for more power, he already has it. Have him bristling under the pressure and banality of actually having to lead the galaxy. Show him making mistakes that cost the FO support. Have that be the lynchpin of a wider Rebellion along with Luke's sacrifice. That would save a lot of time and be more narratively interesting. Kylo has always been a manchild, let that be his undoing.
 

Ziltoidia 9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,463
I feel like Luke's angle in TLJ should have been that the new republic is what was in need of changing, as it was starting to repeat the same mistakes. I think this would have led to people not hating Luke's charactor choices as much, and his withdrawing from the force was his way to let the new republic's people find their own way. That seems to be the main theme in this treatment, the people at the bottom needed to rise up.... Disney might not have liked that approach.
 

PogChamp

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
7,035
I just realized something

It would have been fucking dope to promote Palpatine coming back but then it turns out he's just a big holorecording that trains Kylo believing him to be Vader

Although I guess they weren't that eager to subvert any expectations
 

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,727
While not perfect (and we'll never know if it would have translated to film well) this sounds like something that would have been a way more organic follow up to Last Jedi, and I say that as someone who didn't even care for Last Jedi that much. I also love the idea that Kylo never gets redeemed.

A Lovecraftian Sith being also sounds amazing.
 
Dec 12, 2017
9,686
Actually thinking about this, there is a lot that can be cut.

Like the entire Kylo subplot. He doesn't need to search for more power, he already has it. Have him bristling under the pressure and banality of actually having to lead the galaxy. Show him making mistakes that cost the FO support. Have that be the lynchpin of a wider Rebellion along with Luke's sacrifice. That would save a lot of time and be more narratively interesting. Kylo has always been a manchild, let that be his undoing.
But the irony of searching for more water for your bucket, when your bucket has a hole in the bottom, is kinda cool, imo.

Kylo can never be satisfied because he is broken from the inside. A greek tragedy.
 

NHarmonic.

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,694
This actually sounds amazing.

Tbh the only thing i would miss from TROS is the cool shot of Rey and Kylo fighting on different scenarios with their force connection, that was great.
 

SinkFla

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,885
Pensacola, Fl
Full disclosure: I haven't seen the movie yet (but I know everything lol).

I think no matter which direction they went in, audiences would be divided. It's just that kind of franchise. If they try too hard to appeal to internet fanfiction (which they did) people are disappointed and if try too hard to subvert expectations people will be upset (as evidenced by this thread).

I actually like the idea of Kylo not being redeemable. I feel like it was lazy "it's like poetry it rhymes" writing to have Kylo redeem himself at the end and absolutely disgusting to have him share a kiss with the main female lead. Dude is a mass murderer. It's a gross trope with a bad message that is far too played out. It's like twilight x1000 lol.
 

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,727
Actually thinking about this, there is a lot that can be cut.

Like the entire Kylo subplot. He doesn't need to search for more power, he already has it. Have him bristling under the pressure and banality of actually having to lead the galaxy. Show him making mistakes that cost the FO support. Have that be the lynchpin of a wider Rebellion along with Luke's sacrifice. That would save a lot of time and be more narratively interesting. Kylo has always been a manchild, let that be his undoing.
Kylo constantly searching for more power in order to fill Vader's shoes, completely unaware of what's under his nose (his own latent power) is pretty on point for Kylo though. That's kind of his thing in The Force Awakens.
 

Matt

The Terror that Flaps in the Night
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
3,795
But the irony of searching for more water for your bucket, when your bucket has a hole in the bottom, is kinda cool, imo.

Kylo can never be satisfied because he is broken from the inside. A greek tragedy.
I get that, and it could absolutely be interesting, but I just think that would take too long, not follow up on already established character traits, and mean more focus on Kylo alone when we need him with the FO to avoid a big problem RoS had: a random McGuffin whose defeat somehow also ends the FO, even though they were doing fine without it.

Kylo and the FO are the big bads, not Kylo and [random new baddie].
 

Big One

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,003
I also really like Tor Valum as well. Is he meant to be Darth Plagueis? Who knows. It's such a neat little idea regardless
 

Sesha

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,150
While there's little reason to believe Trevorrow's version would've actually been better, in retrospect the sigh of relief from so many (probably myself included) after Trevorrow was booted and Abrams was brought back is really funny.
 

Tuorom

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,932
I don't like Duel of the Fates as a name, it's just too jarring when that's a motif of the prequel trilogy.
Yea it's still not good. But I like it better than The Rise of Skywalker. Which is incredibly bad.
I'll take a full circle nod to TPM than TRoS.

I get that, and it could absolutely be interesting, but I just think that would take too long, not follow up on already established character traits, and mean more focus on Kylo alone when we need him with the FO to avoid a big problem RoS had: a random McGuffin whose defeat somehow also ends the FO, even though they were doing fine without it.

Kylo and the FO are the big bads, not Kylo and [random new baddie].
They could have made Kylo's search for more power a way to destroy the FO from the inside. Basically have him become so consumed that he just becomes unhinged and murders Hux and commanders and sending his army into certain deaths because he can't allow himself to be defeated.
 

CrichtonKicks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,874
at least if they were gonna do this improvised trilogy with multiple directors thing, why not get a third random A-list director on board?
They did that with Trevorrow- he was A-list after JW.

The problem after that was two-fold IMO:

1) They wouldn't budge much on schedule. Bringing another A list director who wasn't already in the club (ie JJ and Rian) wouldn't have happened without a much bigger delay than JJ got when he agreed to do Episode IX.

2) With the well publicized issues with Gareth Edwards and Lord/Miller and then Trevorrow's firing, I think it may actually have been a bit challenging to recruit a true A-list director at that point. They could probably have got a strong up and comer though following the MCU method.
 

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,727
Kylo not being redeemed is honestly my favorite thing about this treatment. Force Awakens and Last Jedi seem to make it pretty clear that Kylo Ren is committed to the path of the Dark Side and isn't redeemable.
 

Megatherium

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,480
It does sound better than TROS. The only thing that seems dumb to me is having to go in person to light a figurative beacon on Coruscant to get the galaxy to come help. That seems pretty contrived and overly complicated, in order to give characters something to do.

The struggle should be in motivating them to help, not in lighting some anachronistic torch to let them know what is going on, since all kinds of broadcasts/messages about galactic news are coming and going from Coruscant constantly.
 

DavidDesu

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,676
Glasgow, Scotland
Sounds quite hectic same as TROS and actually reading that about Ben it’s very unsatisfying. Whatever you think it just feels in keeping with what SW fundamentally is that he gets redeemed, and TROS kinda did it in a cool and even funny way (not badly though). Meh. I dunno. There’s still a far better film that could have been made, but then the same was the case with ROTJ back in the day but it is what it is now.
 

Matt

The Terror that Flaps in the Night
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
3,795
Kylo not being redeemed is honestly my favorite thing about this treatment. Force Awakens and Last Jedi seem to make it pretty clear that Kylo Ren is committed to the path of the Dark Side and isn't redeemable.
Especially because of the core difference between Kylo and Anakin: Anakin wanted to be a good man, but he fell to the dark side. Kylo wants to be a bad guy, and fights against the light purposfully.

It makes sense that one can be redeemed and not the other.
 

PhaZe 5

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,340
The thing I wonder about is what are the sticking points that make KK want to fire you?

Because killing off Luke and Snoke was something she was cool with and allowed Rian the authority to do, but not redeeming Kylo Ren was sacrilege such that she was desperate to force TRoS into a rushed mess?

We don't know what Lord and Miller's intent was with Solo but there was nothing ambitious about the film we got. And it undercut Han's arc by making it turn out that he helped kickstart a rebel cell before even stepping foot on Tatooine?