AV Club: Turns out Colin Trevorrow's version of Star Wars: Episode IX was good, actually

Castamere

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,122
I've seen all these movies except the prequel and I have no idea what this "Rule of Two" is that I keep seeing mentioned in these threads.
It's a stupid roadblock that should just be retconned. They still train others in the darkside they're just not technically Sith. So it's like "there's only 2 Sith at any given time, an apprentice and master" Except for the apprentices apprentice, inquisitors, and rival Sith like Darth Maul, Count Dooku, Savage Oppress, etc. They need to timeskip that shit away.
 

ginger ninja

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,678
On paper it feels only slightly better but in any case it's the execution that would have made a difference. Like even with ROTS, none of the major plot points are terrible, it's plot hole ridden execution and mismash of ideas that destroy the end product.
 

Vampirolol

Member
Dec 13, 2017
2,482
I liked ROTS a lot but I much prefer where this seemed to be going, though it sounds too much like what I pictured in my head and that's never a good thing lol
 

matrix-cat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,256
I'm amazed people are saying they wouldn't want to see Luke coming back to talk to Kylo. That's like one of the juiciest plot threads Rian Johnson set up for Episode IX's director, so much potential for wonderful scenes no matter where they planned to take Kylo's arc:

- Luke talking shit to rile up Kylo, Mark Hamill getting to ham it up a little
- Hux and the rest of the FO command seeing Kylo reacting to something they can't see
- Kylo losing it, swinging his sabre around wildly while Ghost Luke just calmly waits for the little scamp to tucker himself out
- Luke trying to talk some sense into Kylo and maybe starting to bring him around
- Luke and Kylo working through their baggage together as a step on the path to Rendemption

I mean, this stuff writes itself; the Kylo/Luke dynamic was so good for the brief moments we got to see it in TLJ. It's nuts that Kylo is so obsessed with Luke throughout TFA and TLJ, and TLJ ends on "No one's ever really gone", "I'll always be with you", "See you 'round, kid", and then come TROS they just never speak again and aren't even together as ghosts. If canon says that Force Ghosts can't appear to Dark Siders then canon is dumb and should be ignored in this instance; general audiences would never question Luke appearing to Kylo as a ghost, and TROS is about as disrespectful to Star Wars canon as I can imagine anyway :P
 

CloudWolf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,958
The Rise of Skywalker is such a clusterfuck that it's hard not to be better than that movie. Still, props for actually following up on the ideas from The Last Jedi instead of throwing it wholesale out the door.
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,372
I'm amazed people are saying they wouldn't want to see Luke coming back to talk to Kylo. That's like one of the juiciest plot threads Rian Johnson set up for Episode IX's director, so much potential for wonderful scenes no matter where they planned to take Kylo's arc:

- Luke talking shit to rile up Kylo, Mark Hamill getting to ham it up a little
- Hux and the rest of the FO command seeing Kylo reacting to something they can't see
- Kylo losing it, swinging his sabre around wildly while Ghost Luke just calmly waits for the little scamp to tucker himself out
- Luke trying to talk some sense into Kylo and maybe starting to bring him around
- Luke and Kylo working through their baggage together as a step on the path to Rendemption

I mean, this stuff writes itself; the Kylo/Luke dynamic was so good for the brief moments we got to see it in TLJ. It's nuts that Kylo is so obsessed with Luke throughout TFA and TLJ, and TLJ ends on "No one's ever really gone", "I'll always be with you", "See you 'round, kid", and then come TROS they just never speak again and aren't even together as ghosts. If canon says that Force Ghosts can't appear to Dark Siders then canon is dumb and should be ignored in this instance; general audiences would never question Luke appearing to Kylo as a ghost, and TROS is about as disrespectful to Star Wars canon as I can imagine anyway :P
Yep, massive wasted opportunity there.
 

seleniumdrive

Member
May 26, 2018
242
Yeah, I don’t think I would’ve liked this much either.

That ending for Kylo/Ben would have been bleak as fuck. Han and Luke (to an extent) died trying to reach out to him in the previous two movies, but in the end he has to be put down like a rabid dog? THAT would’ve been the end of the Skywalker family? Nah, no thanks.

TROS has big problems, but Adam Driver as Ben was such a highlight, and I’m glad we got that at least.

This script does start off a lot better than TROS, and has two big positives in its favor (Rey Nobody, more Rose). Those alone help it feel more like a continuation of TLJ than TROS does. I also like that Force Ghost Luke sticks around to try to bring Ben back, whereas in TROS it feels like he gives zero fucks about his own nephew. Though Ben is “extinguished” in this script, so that make Luke’s efforts feel futile.

I also like how it brings up the cyclical nature of the light side vs dark side and masters repeating mistakes. I thought IX would bring that idea full circle — how will the new generation fix the mistakes of the old, prevent that cycle from continuing, and bring balance? Neither this script nor TROS really resolve that, but I guess this script at least brings it up?

Kylo killing Rey’s parents makes no sense. And it still feels like the story jumps around a bit too much here.

In any case, even though some of the stuff here is better, I doubt Trevorrow would’ve executed it well. JJ, for all his faults, is still the better director between the two.
 

TDLink

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,506
Still sounds overstuffed, but also way better than what we got. At least it would have done new, original, things. At least it would have built on the threads that TLJ left hanging. At least it would have better delved into all of the characters. Even the fanservice-y stuff like Kylo vs Vader sounds like a good way to pull something like that off without it feeling out of place. I also really like how active Luke would have been in the movie, and a revisit to Coruscant.

It completely boggles my mind that Trevorrow was fired for this version and then they decided to use JJ's instead. Whoever made this decision, I just don't understand it.

Basically, it's not perfect, but I don't understand how they shot what we got over this.
 

Cuburger

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,565
I wouldn't even say it sounds better on paper. Some ideas could sound better, and some still sound worse than what we got, ultimately, it's still in the execution. It's basically a wash.

Now we'll probably get Trevorrow script acolytes to go along with the "JJ Cut" fanatics then all we'd need are some supposed Rian Johnson Episode IX ideas to emerge and we have the perfect trifecta of fans that just can't move on for years.
 

Bishop89

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,838
Melbourne, Australia
Second bullet point in
BB-8 and Rose Tico (allegedly a key character in script) are infiltrating Kuat Moon
Why is a maintenance worker infiltrating anything?

It made sense in TLJ why she was on a mission, but come on.

Also no force ghost Anakin?



It’s just a story treatment. And it might’ve pleased people who’d loved TLJ more, but it really doesn’t sound any more satisfying than TROS and just as stuffed with plot.

But I do like some parts of it. Just like TROS I guess.
Yeh this is what I'm getting from this.
 

Seesaw15

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,396
Second bullet point in


Why is a maintenance worker infiltrating anything?

It made sense in TLJ why she was on a mission, but come on.
.
Lol bruh. There were like 15 people in the resistance at the end of TLJ. She probably got a promotion. There doesn't seem to be a very rigid military system in place. Right place right time and who you know. Wasn't Finn promoted to the rank of General in TRoS?
 

Rand a. Thor

Member
Oct 31, 2017
10,130
Greece
I knew Trevorrow had it in him to create a good film. This could have been his redemption but alas most of his other work is shit. I like what is the basis for the story. No redemption, no Palpatine resurrection, Corusant seen after the fall of the Republic, mad lads stealing Star Destroyers, Luke Force Ghost trolling Kylo, and that Staff Lightsaber all sound like legitimately great ideas. If anything this would have been a fun as hell blockbuster with minimal fan service and a more coherent plot.
 

The Masked Mufti

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,146
Scotland
If canon says that Force Ghosts can't appear to Dark Siders then canon is dumb and should be ignored in this instance; general audiences would never question Luke appearing to Kylo as a ghost,
With all the half assed references to the EU that Abrams put in TROS, the exclusion of this is one of the dumbest things. The EU had Luke appearing to his descendant Cade (a pirate who left the Jedi ways after seeing the order slaughtered by Darth Krayt’s Sith Order) and guiding him to the light side while Cade was stuck in the middle of light and dark, like Kylo. Would have worked really well for an ending where Kylo goes into exile to redeem himself.
 

Weegian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,179
Like TROS, it’s trying to do too much. Rey and Kylo are still training, and it’s the final movie in the trilogy.
 

Patitoloco

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,828
Except the part where Ren's the murderer of Rey's parents for an arbitrary reason, I think it's an improvement on TROS in EVERYTHING, specially Finn and Rose's storyline.

I kinda prefer the redemption of Ben as well, but I would be good with anything other than "lol Palpatine's alive and kickin"
 

Rand a. Thor

Member
Oct 31, 2017
10,130
Greece
Like TROS, it’s trying to do too much. Rey and Kylo are still training, and it’s the final movie in the trilogy.
Honestly, that's on Rian 100%. Whoever was gonna be tasked with the final movie had to go in with neither Kylo or Rey fully committed to the Dark or Light side of the force with full training and had to go through the motions of not only tying up the plot but completing their training at the same time which would make things cramped and rushed for em. I love TLJ but that is the one big fuck up of the movie for me.
 

Seesaw15

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,396
Honestly, that's on Rian 100%. Whoever was gonna be tasked with the final movie had to go in with neither Kylo or Rey fully committed to the Dark or Light side of the force with full training and had to go through the motions of not only tying up the plot but completing their training at the same time which would make things cramped and rushed for em. I love TLJ but that is the one big fuck up of the movie for me.
I never understand peoples obsession with on screen training in these movies. Rey got as much on screen training as Luke did in Empire. The characters mental states during their final confrontation is much more important/compelling than the amount of force tricks they know. Which ever director they hired for episode 9 should have had the confidence to either go the Avatar the Last Airbender route and have Rey go into the final battle undercooked or do RotJ and just say the training took place off screen. Same for Kylo.

The 5 minute scene of Rey training in the jungle told us nothing new about Rey or Leia's characters nor did enrich Rey's fight scenes with Kylo or Palp.
 
Dec 2, 2017
1,443
Apparently this Hux pulled a Grievous. He had a collection of lightsabers and tried to use the Force with no success. He then killed himself with a lightsaber. lol.
 

GayAnimeDad

Member
Feb 13, 2018
2,709
Japan
The article should probably be updated with the new information like Rey x Poe, Force vampirism, Luke/Kenobi/Yoda telling Rey she was the first person able to accept the dark etc.
 

Skade

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,007
That sounds like an ok script. Could have been much better but still is leagues above what we actually got.
 

Fonst

Member
Nov 16, 2017
2,670
We have proof this is from Colin and not just a fan? Because I thought Colin's script included Luke being reincarnated and Leia being a master Jedi with lightsaber fight scenes.
 

CopperPuppy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,445
This is not better lmao

Still has most of the same problems TROS has, minus some of the actually interesting stuff.
 

GayAnimeDad

Member
Feb 13, 2018
2,709
Japan
We have proof this is from Colin and not just a fan? Because I thought Colin's script included Luke being reincarnated and Leia being a master Jedi with lightsaber fight scenes.
There are a lot of fake details about his script, like the one you’re referencing. We don’t know if this script is fake, but its existence has been corroborated by many sources. Apparently it’s floating around on the internet... somewhere.

One thing that people don’t seem to realize though is that this is one of the earliest drafts. There were more revisions including at least one major one after Lucasfilm was unsatisfied with this one, so large parts of this story were likely completely reworked.

One leak from someone who has a (usually) credible track record has said that Trevorrow’s script included:
  • The Sith troopers from the final movie, who would at one point fight the normal first order stormtroopers.
  • A female dark side force-wielder named Sollowy as a third-party villain.
So it’s possible that the movie we would have gotten would be very different from this leaked script.
 

PeskyToaster

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,252
I'm amazed people are saying they wouldn't want to see Luke coming back to talk to Kylo. That's like one of the juiciest plot threads Rian Johnson set up for Episode IX's director, so much potential for wonderful scenes no matter where they planned to take Kylo's arc:

- Luke talking shit to rile up Kylo, Mark Hamill getting to ham it up a little
- Hux and the rest of the FO command seeing Kylo reacting to something they can't see
- Kylo losing it, swinging his sabre around wildly while Ghost Luke just calmly waits for the little scamp to tucker himself out
- Luke trying to talk some sense into Kylo and maybe starting to bring him around
- Luke and Kylo working through their baggage together as a step on the path to Rendemption

I mean, this stuff writes itself; the Kylo/Luke dynamic was so good for the brief moments we got to see it in TLJ. It's nuts that Kylo is so obsessed with Luke throughout TFA and TLJ, and TLJ ends on "No one's ever really gone", "I'll always be with you", "See you 'round, kid", and then come TROS they just never speak again and aren't even together as ghosts. If canon says that Force Ghosts can't appear to Dark Siders then canon is dumb and should be ignored in this instance; general audiences would never question Luke appearing to Kylo as a ghost, and TROS is about as disrespectful to Star Wars canon as I can imagine anyway :P
Yeah I've said it a hundred times. It was never really established that Kylo Ren knows that Luke died. Their last confrontation was basically just Luke humiliating Kylo with a powerful expression of force mastery. I'd use that to send Kylo Ren down a dark rabbit hole and drive the plot. Then you could get a reverse moment like when Kylo Ren told Rey that she's no one. He's gone bro, you've been searching for (literal in this case) ghosts, just like me. You could wave it away saying he sensed it but why wave away an interesting and fun thread from the previous movie.
 
Oct 27, 2017
16,546
That ending for Kylo/Ben would have been bleak as fuck. Han and Luke (to an extent) died trying to reach out to him in the previous two movies, but in the end he has to be put down like a rabid dog? THAT would’ve been the end of the Skywalker family? Nah, no thanks.
He's evil and he wants to be. He should be put down because he's done nothing, but try and be as much of an asshole as possible. As someone earlier said, Anakin was a kid who wanted to be good, but got tempted and went down the path of the Dark Side. Kylo is the opposite, he wants to go down the path of the Dark Side despite people trying to pull him back. Giving him a redemption was weak and cowardice of Disney to fully commit. They shouldn't have made him the son of Han and Leia if it meant he HAD to be redeemed.
 

WillyFive

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,892
It felt like Trevorrow read the script to TLJ and decided to write what happened next.

Which is what should have happened. This version legitimized both TLJ and the sequel trilogy's characters, Kylo Ren as the villain he was meant to be, Rey destroying both the Jedi and Sith as she was meant to be, and ties in with lore from prequels, the shows, and the ST itself.

The plot overall does seem pretty conservative and parallels RotJ a lot though, and idk if Treverrow as director would have been as good, but it is a better story.
 

DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,760
Just read the article

The this version sounds vastly superior narratively and thematically on paper

I mean... hindsight is 20/20 and all that and who knows if the final product would be anywhere near as cool as described but...

I can't help but wonder what could have been
 

Arkeband

Member
Nov 8, 2017
4,653
I honestly love this, if it’s real. The only thing I’d change is Kylo killing her parents, as the slight age difference makes that implausible.
 

Complicated

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,906
Some neat ideas in there. I definitely would not say it's better if it's real. Could maybe be fleshed out into something better. The ending in particular sounds much worse which is kinda like the entire point of the final movie in a saga.