Yup, it feels like Leia, Han, and Rey basically are trying to convince themselves that there's still good in Kylo Ren, not convince Kylo Ren that there's still good in him. In TFA and TLJ Kylo keeps doing terrible things and you just hear one of those characters go "but there's still good in him I swear" and Luke is just like "nah that kid's gone".
I see that point but how about this: if we view Kylo and the FO through the lens of Bruce Wayne and WayneTech, it is possible for for WayneTech to function while its CEO playboy is off galavanting. The Kylo we had at the end of TLJ was one that was completely disillusioned by the FO and by extension, the conflict of war in general. Perhaps the power he seeks in a 3rd film is one that can remake all of it in his own image. That would take him on a quest parallel with whatever Chancellor Hux would do with "WayneTech".
Exactly. That's why his redemption feels so forced: he never wants to be redeemed. TFA had him explicitly fight for strength against the Light Side.
Kylo in TFA and TLJ sort of goes on a perfectly opposite arc that Luke goes on in the original trilogy, when you think about it
I don't think that's quite right. Ren is reveling in violence and power by the end of TLJ, and the FO is fully under his command. That's what he has always wanted, to have ultimate power and no limits to its use.
Like mentioned before "no one is really gone" I think Kylo shouldn't have died a villain but he shouldn't have a traditional romantic/death ending either, like he was in Titanic or Final Fantasy. Being called 'Ben' seemed like it should have been foreshadowing, as that was an alias for a force user, and his obsession with power and 'you don't belong in this story' would have made it perfect that he would have become a lone wanderer, never being truly redeemed but still doing good. Having lectured Rey as a nobody, it would seem sweet and poetic that is what he becomes.
It fits the story thematically, Rey becomes somebody and Ren becomes nobody. And being called Ben, his ending would have been in plain sight the whole time.
Frankly punished exile Kylo ren would work in a tv series or over several movies after TLJ where some serious shit happened that rocked his beliefs but in the 3rd and final film of the trilogy it's a bit much
That's a really good point with the Luke comparison.
I'm not even sure it should be done for the sake of a TV story, I just think it fits his character arc. He said "no sith, no jedi" and he kind of gets that for himself, even if he loses his power and empire.
Luke says no one is really gone, so I don't think it should be as simple as punishment. It's doing what good he can, even if it will never be enough to justify the genocide of the first order, it's better than nothing, and it's more thought provoking than just an ironic punishment. For a series that has often had a black and white depiction of redemption and of a villain like Palpatine's being 100% evil, throw awrench in the middle and give the audience something to contemplate with. Even though SW is a classic story of simple morals, you can always add a new layer.
I like Kylo being in the same spot, if not literal, as Rey in the beginning of TFA. I know people like to sarcastically say poetry but honestly it would make sense.
THE DEAD SPEAK!
