This is simply a false misconstruction. You're layering my explanations as to why Thor's arc failed as if they are separate arguments, constantly shifting to stay a ahead of responses. But, you know damn well all of those posts are refuting the ideas put by others as to why Thor's arc is somehow great.
To recap, my initial position was the Thor's arc was deeply flawed, perfunctory lip service that doesn't actually explore his character. Instead, it's mostly relegated to a joke. As an aside, this is why I find it funny when anyone treats it as a serious exploration of mental depression when the movie itself wants you to laugh at Thor. So, it's a serious exploration of mental depression but also it's totally fine to make fun of and laugh at mentally depressed people? Pick one. But back to the main point, Thor's arc is completely shallow. He's depressed and fat, he talks to his mom, he's suddenly ready to take on Thanos and actually help the team. Arc done.
All these "changing" arguments you bring up are explanations as to why his arc failed. And, also why every point as to why it's great you all keep bringing up is not at all supported by the film.
Here's the nonsense idea that Thor was somehow trying to live up to some image of being King, something that is never shown in the film:
Here's missing that Thor's ego was the reason for their failure:
Here's the idea that Thor somehow confronted his lust for revenge and ego in Endgame:
Then I responded in posts such as these:
The argument has remained the same, I have merely elucidated why his arc is so weak. And the crux of the issue is that Thor does not have to actually confront any of his issues. He begins as a fat, depressed guy until his mother tells him it's okay to fail, then he gets Mjolnir and is ready to kick ass. He even goes back to being a cocky, egotistical idiot. You know, the thing that caused Thanos to win. Thor does not discuss with anyone why he didn't go for the head, why he needed to let Thanos see him get his revenge. He doesn't talk about his issues about being thrust into the role of King. He doesn't talk about why he has to always be seen as the strongest. And, overcoming these failings are in no way crucial to confronting and ultimately defeating Thanos.
Again, to compare with The Last Jedi. If it were the same movie as Endgame, Luke would've joined up with Rey by the end of the second lesson. She told him that his failure wasn't his fault and that she wouldn't fail him and how the galaxy needs a legend like Luke Skywalker. In any traditional, lesser film, that would have been the moment Luke snapped out of everything and started being a hero again. The very thing that happens in Endgame. But, he doesn't because Luke has yet to confront and make peace with his failings, and Rey's bolstering does little to help him because she doesn not know the truth of his failings. The same way that Thor's mom has no clue why or how Thor failed. Her pep-talk should NOT be enough, because she has no idea what Thor has been through and what caused him to fail and slide into depression. Thor failed because of all the things we mentioned before: ego, revenge, bloated self-importance, etc. Yet, nothing his mother says is about these things because she doesn't know about them. The same way that Rey doesn't understand the true depths of Luke's failure, of his moment of weakness when it came to Kylo.
It's only after Luke speaks with Master Yoda, someone who actually knows the truth and knows everything that Luke has been through that he's able to confront his past and his failings. It's here that he learns that failure is something to pass on, not something keep a dirty secret. And, it's here he has to confront the reality of his legend. AND, this brilliant culminates in his final confrontation with Kylo Ren where he accepts his legend status and uses it against Kylo and TFO to clown all of them and restore Hope to the galaxy.
Now back to Thor, after his pep-talk with Mom and Mjolnir in hand he once again comes face-to-face with Thanos, the source of all his pain. So, tell me how does this confrontation play out with regards to the character development and issues Thor just had to overcome? Does he face Thanos with some new attitude, casting aside the cocky, revenge fueled Asgardian King? Does he trick Thanos by making him think he's the same egotistical, rage machine from Infinity War? Hell, do the two even exchange any meaningful dialogue? The answer is no. The entire final confrontation is a CGI wankfest battle that has Thor revert to his old self as he lays waste to faceless noobs. Even worse, Thor starts the fight exclaiming, "let's kill him properly this time." Indicating he's back to full on ego mode. He's saying that swiftly chopping of Thanos' head was a shallow victory because he was denied a full rematch. Holy hell, talk about a total reversion. He learned nothing.
But yes, Thor's arc is great because of the simple fact a shallow arc exists in that he's kind of a different person than when he started the film. Yeah, again the fact that a bare-bones arc exist is not evidence that it is good.
Simply put, your reduction of Thor's arc is deeply flawed. You can't seem to separate your
presumption that Thor's depression should be measured by his contention with Thanos from the reality of his condition.
I'm Endgame, Thor's "issue" is that he's clinically depressed. He confronts this issue through the entirety of the movie. Just because you REALLY WANT his issue to have been his ego, or his thirst for revenge, or his defeat at the hands of Thanos, doesn't mean it is, ever was or should have been.
You keep arguing that Thor's conversation with his mom was his resolution- framed by his newfound willingness to contribute - but it wasn't. HE WAS STILL DEPRESSED AFTER THIS CONVERSATION and he was ALREADY HELPING THE CAUSE PRIOR. Again you insist that his arc centers around Thanos, but it doesn't and never did, nor should it have. This conversation didn't motivate him "kickass" or fight Thanos. He never had qualms about either of those things. The conversation motivate him to challenge his insecurities.
Thor doesn't need to discuss "why" he didn't go to the head, because the "why" isn't important (its also painfully simple). His flaw isn't his ego. His arc isn't
about "not going for the head". He didn't lose BECAUSE he thought too highly of himself. He lost because he was talking shit
instead of killing - which lead to
yet another failure. The lesson here, is don't stop to talk shit when you should be killing.
His "flaw" is his inability to cope with the string of disappointments that he endured over the last 10 years, only one of which was the result of an ego moment. After the snap, this inability sends him on a self-destructive spiral. Throughout the course of the movie he learns to cope, and starts to climb out of the spiral.
As to the humor, do you think people are always sensitive to the emotions of those around them? Any story worth its weight would have characters acting, you know...in character. Some character's in this movie are insensitive and toxic. Other characters became increasingly empathic for Thor's condition the more they interacted with him - as did the audience. The notion that his condition was "mostly a joke" is a flat out lie. Every single humorous moment came accompanied with a stern, painful reminder that he's not OK.
As for the egotistical Banter, maybe at the end he should've said "I've gotta stop yanking Quill's chain because the last time I talked shit, the universe was destroyed. Besides, everyone knows that people who have depression can't have a sense of humor."
Give me a break. You do know depressed people can still have personalities right? They aren't resigned to being "sad-sacks" 24/7 you know?
You desperately want Thanos to be a symbol for Thor's condition, but he isn't and shouldn't be. Stop saying Thanos is the source of all his pain. He isn't, never was. Stop suggesting that confrontation with Thor should have been symbolic of his growth - that's not how depression works. And stop leading with the preconceived notion that ego/revenge were the flaws to be addressed. I can't answer your question about how the Thanos fight influenced Thor's character development in regards to his ego/revenge arc, because there was no Thanos centric ego/revenge arc, nor should there have been. It's a loaded question.
the notion that his arc should have been about the error of revenge or ego that culminates in a fight with Thanos is just your own baseless headcannon. Actually, what you suggest would be truly shallow arc.
"Let's kill him properly this time." Has nothing to do with wanting a "proper rematch" and everything to do with wanting Thanos to die before getting the gauntlet and snapping... Holy baseless conclusion! Seriously, what type of mental gymnastics does it take to come to the conclusion that "let's kill him properly" means swiftly cutting his head off was shallow? It clearly means that the last few encounters yielded the wrong outcome, so with this encounter, they must kill him BEFORE he uses the gauntlet.
