Avengers: Endgame |Spoiler OT| Let's go get this son of a bitch

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Lotus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
52,055
Anyway maybe y'all already talked about this, but what the hell happened to that clip they released of the pager being hooked up to some battery and Carol arriving after it died? I know trailers are full of things that don't make the final cut in films but this is the first time I've seen an officially released promotional clip just not be in the movie at all. It was a little weird how Carol was introduced in this film, she kind of just showed up on Earth and everyone was like "alright." Did that pager scene implicitly happen earlier? Did they send her after Tony?
That's the mid-credits scene for the Captain Marvel movie. And yes, the implication is that she already met them, was told where Tony was, and then proceeded to go and grab him.
 

ZattMurdock

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,333
Earth 616
The interesting thing about Strange is that he told Tony in Infinity War "I will not hesitate to let either of you die" and he did exactly that. Peter in IW, Tony in EG.
He also said this:



I don't see Strange as being an asshole here. All I can feel from Cumberbatch's excellent performance is how incredibly remorseful he is. The way he says this screams "I am sorry about what is going to happen to you". Heartbreaking.
 

NSA

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,923
California
3rd viewing tonight.. took my 16 year old son this time.. he got teary eye'd too! It was nice walking back after the movie and hearing what he thought about it. The new Spider Man is his favorite so I think he was my proxy pretty attached to Iron Man and was pretty sad how it ended but really really liked the movie.

Each time I see it, I like the slow pace and exposition more and more. It's just such a good/fun/emotional movie. It makes me FEEL things, which I appreciate.

I definitely think rewatching so many MCU movies last month helped my enjoyment of the movie.. as it's a love letter to most of those 22 movies.
 

Anth0ny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,111
He also said this:



I don't see Strange as being an asshole here. All I can feel from Cumberbatch's excellent performance is how incredibly remorseful he is. The way he says this screams "I am sorry about what is going to happen to you". Heartbreaking.
Strange comes off entirely different when rewatching Infinity War now that we've seen Endgame. It's pretty incredible.
 

SeroTyler

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,338
I just saw the motherfucking Hulk do the motherfucking dab.

I had a couple nitpicking complaints, but as a conclusion to a 22 movie saga, that went about as well as it possibly could have. I think I'm off the train after this one but couldn't have possibly asked for a better ending to go out on, the 2 best MCU movies.
 

Trup1aya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,567
It's so frustrating because Danvers would have murdered Thanos if she was there before he got his hands on the stones at the end of the fight.
Yeah, but that wouldn’t have been much of a spectacle.

They had her on the bench because the scene was way more interesting with the characters having to struggle.
 

Dakkon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
456
He also said this:



I don't see Strange as being an asshole here. All I can feel from Cumberbatch's excellent performance is how incredibly remorseful he is. The way he says this screams "I am sorry about what is going to happen to you". Heartbreaking.
Well, that line has an extra connotation for Strange that links back to his own film:

Mordo: You've no idea the things I've done, and the answer is yes, without hesitation.
Strange: Even if there is another way?
Mordo: There was no other way.
Strange: You lack imagination.

Strange's opinion in Doctor Strange was one born out of his ego - he thinks he's the smartest man in the room and so he thinks he'll always be able to find a second way to accomplish something.

This scene from Infinity War is Strange realizing Mordo was correct, sometimes there is only one way to do something and you have to make bad or risky choices that might hurt others for the greater good.

I think part of that remorsefulness comes from that.
 

Trup1aya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,567
Proximity should hardly matter since none of them were near the Soul Stone anyway, right?

Speaking of which, didn’t Nebula know about the requirement?

I missed the Power Stone bit. Well that makes more sense then.
No Nebula has no way of knowing the requirement. No one in the Universe knew the requirement prior to Gamora and Thanos learning it from Red Skull. Gamora was killed there, so unless Thanos and Nebula were secretly communicating with each other, there’s no way Nebula would’ve known.

Im just mentioning proximity because Danvers was very far away from the group as they were planning the time heist.

now that I think about it, The only heist she would have been useful for is a the Power Stone Heist.

If they would have sent her for the soul stone, it would have been a disaster because She doesn’t have a loving relationship with anyone in the group.

The timestone was handed over peacefully, and Hulk wouldn’t need backup. The mindstone and spacestone heists were designed to be covert. So her brawn wouldn’t have been all that useful either.

If she would’ve gone with Nebula and War Machine, they couldve avoided Nebula’s Capture, but then we wouldn’t have gotten that awesome battle and 2014 Gamora would have been toast. If it weren’t for Nebula leaving her WiFi adapter on, the powerstone heist would have been the easiest one!
 
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ZattMurdock

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,333
Earth 616
Well, that line has an extra connotation for Strange that links back to his own film:

Mordo: You've no idea the things I've done, and the answer is yes, without hesitation.
Strange: Even if there is another way?
Mordo: There was no other way.
Strange: You lack imagination.

Strange's opinion in Doctor Strange was one born out of his ego - he thinks he's the smartest man in the room and so he thinks he'll always be able to find a second way to accomplish something.

This scene from Infinity War is Strange realizing Mordo was correct, sometimes there is only one way to do something and you have to make bad or risky choices that might hurt others for the greater good.

I think part of that remorsefulness comes from that.
Thank you for making me realize even one more layer of this. This is all so insanely well crafted.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,268
I don't see Strange as being an asshole here. All I can feel from Cumberbatch's excellent performance is how incredibly remorseful he is. The way he says this screams "I am sorry about what is going to happen to you". Heartbreaking.
Well, that line has an extra connotation for Strange that links back to his own film:

Mordo: You've no idea the things I've done, and the answer is yes, without hesitation.
Strange: Even if there is another way?
Mordo: There was no other way.
Strange: You lack imagination.

Strange's opinion in Doctor Strange was one born out of his ego - he thinks he's the smartest man in the room and so he thinks he'll always be able to find a second way to accomplish something.

This scene from Infinity War is Strange realizing Mordo was correct, sometimes there is only one way to do something and you have to make bad or risky choices that might hurt others for the greater good.

I think part of that remorsefulness comes from that.
Strange really is one of the most tragic figures in all of this. His burden is much bigger than just trying something dangerous and hoping it works out, or leading people to a fight and hoping that they'll pull through. Strange KNOWS that he is sending people to their certain deaths, others to misery and despair, and he still does it because he has to, because his responsibility is not to individuals but to every living soul within that reality. It's haunting.
 
Nov 30, 2017
2,128
I mean it's more understanable why Okoye would say no if asked in comparison to Captain Marvel. Black Panther showed that her sense of duty to country and throne stood above all else while with Captain Marvel, it's nice that she's patrolling the cosmos but that same sense of zeal doesn't come across or at least hasn't in her appearances. If there was a chance to reverse the snap, just by characterization, Okoye would be less willing to rush to the Avengers' help in comparison to Carol.
She's spent the past 20 years in space. Earth isn't her home anymore. Space is. Like Okoye has a duty to her country she feels a duty to space colonies. Her home is there. Why would she help a group of superheroes on Earth when there are other places that need her more that don't have superheroes?
 

DeltaRed

Member
Apr 27, 2018
3,317
The more I think about it the more I think Natasha wasn't given the send off she deserves. The last ten minutes is basically devoted the Tony and Steve, their heroics and sacrifice, but Widow was there stopping Vanko with Tony, Loki in New York, Hydra, Ultron, helping the New Avengers, on the front lines of Wakanda, giving her life for a stone.. All without any powers. She has done as much as anyone. I hope her movie fixes things a little.
 

twinturbo2

Member
Oct 27, 2017
974
Jupiter, FL
The more I think about it the more I think Natasha wasn't given the send off she deserves. The last ten minutes is basically devoted the Tony and Steve, their heroics and sacrifice, but Widow was there stopping Vanko with Tony, Loki in New York, Hydra, Ultron, helping the New Avengers, on the front lines of Wakanda, giving her life for a stone.. All without any powers. She has done as much as anyone. I hope her movie fixes things a little.
I get angry every time I think of this. I may be opening up Pandora’s Box here, but I think it may very well be a Women In Refrigerators moment, as her death basically served as motivation for Clint and Bruce.

The screenwriters admitted to The NY Times that they initially had Clint going over the cliff, too.
 

Lotus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
52,055
but I think it may very well be a Women In Refrigerators moment, as her death basically served as motivation for Clint and Bruce.
What motivation? All of them, including Natasha herself, were already thoroughly motivated to do "whatever it takes" to undo the snap. It's why they did the mission in the first place. Natasha even straight up says the words. They didn't need any further motivation, much less with all of the stones already having been obtained, so to trivialize her willing sacrifice as only being there to motivate or punish them makes no sense.

I absolutely agree that she could've been handled better, namely in how they mourn her compared to Tony, but she literally does not meet the definition of fridging.
 

Noppie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,650
He also said this:



I don't see Strange as being an asshole here. All I can feel from Cumberbatch's excellent performance is how incredibly remorseful he is. The way he says this screams "I am sorry about what is going to happen to you". Heartbreaking.
The way Strange talks to Tony before seeing the outcome and after is so well done, huge difference and much more respectful after he saw the solution.
 

Protome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,876
I get angry every time I think of this. I may be opening up Pandora’s Box here, but I think it may very well be a Women In Refrigerators moment, as her death basically served as motivation for Clint and Bruce.
I've seen this go around a few places but it really doesn't make any sense. If the intention of her death was to serve as motivation for Clint and Bruce that isn't actually what the movie shows happen. Even they only mention it once then move on.

Natasha's death was most definitely handled poorly, that one of the first Avengers dies and everyone just doesn't talk about it again beyond a couple of throwaway moments is insane. But she went out in a relatively powerful way, she didn't die to empower or motivate Clint. She died because she was in fucking charge and she made the decision. She died because she was stronger and smarter than Clint and defeated him to make the sacrifice.

Comparing it to fridging isn't so much reaching as it is completely making things up wholesale.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,131
She's spent the past 20 years in space. Earth isn't her home anymore. Space is. Like Okoye has a duty to her country she feels a duty to space colonies. Her home is there. Why would she help a group of superheroes on Earth when there are other places that need her more that don't have superheroes?
Because the events on Earth affect the entire Universe.
 

ZeldaGalaxy94

The Fallen
Nov 6, 2017
2,101
Sweden
Maybe Iron Man didn’t kill Thanos but instead his ”wish” was to just move Thanos and his army though time and space to their own 2014 Timeline with No memories of it!

Wouldn’t that use more of the Infinity Stones’s power?
For breaking down, moving though the quantum realm and rebuilding atoms with memories removed sound like it would use a lot more energy than just only to break them down or only to rebuild them?

At least this would make Iron Man a more mercyful Hero who even if when he could kill Thanos and his army didn’t choose to do that! That would prove that Tony Stark had a heart
 

jason10mm

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
383
Tn, USA
Danvers is such a huge problem for the MCU. She is an unstoppable killing machine with no (apparent) limits and no real ties to anything. What is her moral code? She can trash entire space fleets seemingly at a whim.

Yet for DECADES she never bothered to stop Thanos, the Dark Elves, or any other marauding group we've seen so far (of which the universe apparently has plenty).

I'm pretty cool with her NEVER interacting with any other MCU character or film again. Just spin her off into her own series and leave it be.

Though her powers are derived from an infinity stone right? Or was it the Tesseract? Maybe they can nerf her at some point in that way so she can become relatable.

I enjoyed Endgame. I dont think the newer characters have anywhere near the charisma RJD, Evans, and Heimsworth were able to bring so I'm glad at least Thor should show up in other films. Hopefully now they can grow Strange, SW, BP, and Falcon into proper characters. Be nice if they take a step back from massive CGI fightfests for a bit and get back to 1 on 1 stunt fights. The heroes versus Thanos stuff has been the best stuff in the MCU for some time. I'm hoping Falcon and WS get to do that and I'm expecting the BW movie to have John Wick levels of fight choreography.
 

Sinder

Banned
Jul 24, 2018
7,576
Danvers is such a huge problem for the MCU. She is an unstoppable killing machine with no (apparent) limits and no real ties to anything. What is her moral code? She can trash entire space fleets seemingly at a whim.

Yet for DECADES she never bothered to stop Thanos, the Dark Elves, or any other marauding group we've seen so far (of which the universe apparently has plenty).

I'm pretty cool with her NEVER interacting with any other MCU character or film again. Just spin her off into her own series and leave it be.

Though her powers are derived from an infinity stone right? Or was it the Tesseract? Maybe they can nerf her at some point in that way so she can become relatable.

I enjoyed Endgame. I dont think the newer characters have anywhere near the charisma RJD, Evans, and Heimsworth were able to bring so I'm glad at least Thor should show up in other films. Hopefully now they can grow Strange, SW, BP, and Falcon into proper characters. Be nice if they take a step back from massive CGI fightfests for a bit and get back to 1 on 1 stunt fights. The heroes versus Thanos stuff has been the best stuff in the MCU for some time. I'm hoping Falcon and WS get to do that and I'm expecting the BW movie to have John Wick levels of fight choreography.
Strange, Spider-Man, Black Panther, Hulk, and Thor is still a pretty good lineup even if Thor splits his time in Guardians stuff.

I think Captain Marvel will be exclusively for cosmic marvel and will likely be a part of Fantastic Four and Galactus which I’m guessing is the plan for the next big bad over the next decade.
 

Trup1aya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,567
The more I think about it the more I think Natasha wasn't given the send off she deserves. The last ten minutes is basically devoted the Tony and Steve, their heroics and sacrifice, but Widow was there stopping Vanko with Tony, Loki in New York, Hydra, Ultron, helping the New Avengers, on the front lines of Wakanda, giving her life for a stone.. All without any powers. She has done as much as anyone. I hope her movie fixes things a little.
No doubt...

But the movie was 3hrs long. Having two funeral scenes, back to back would have been a bit much. I get why they handled it the way they did.

I guess they could have had it be a joint funeral, and really put both of their contributions on equal footing (because w/o the soul stone, we don’t get The reversal or Thanos defeat). But I think they wanted to hammer down the completion of the Avengers arc that began with Iron Man.

I wonder how people would feel if Clint was the one who died and his death was handled this way. Technically, he’s an original Avenger, but was never as influential as BW. I’m honestly impressed that they killed BW instead, because killing Clint would have been far “safer”.


Maybe Iron Man didn’t kill Thanos but instead his ”wish” was to just move Thanos and his army though time and space to their own 2014 Timeline with No memories of it!

Wouldn’t that use more of the Infinity Stones’s power?
For breaking down, moving though the quantum realm and rebuilding atoms with memories removed sound like it would use a lot more energy than just only to break them down or only to rebuild them?

At least this would make Iron Man a more mercyful Hero who even if when he could kill Thanos and his army didn’t choose to do that! That would prove that Tony Stark had a heart
I hope not. No sense being merciful to genicidal maniacs who want to destroy an entire Universe
 
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SolVanderlyn

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,108
Earth, 21st Century
I heard the entire theater sniffling at Stark's death (location: Japan)

What a fantastic movie. I was all for the alternate timeline thing (a la Future Trunks) but what we got was good too. Fantastic end to a generation built starting with Tony Stark, AKA Robert Downey Jr. Can't wait to see where they go from here.
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
43,327
I don't know how Brie's haircut is even a talking point considering Renner's monstrosity. There wasn't even an explanation for it! The dude's family got snapped and he's a killer, why the hell does he have some weird style going on? It'd make more sense if he had a buzz cut, one less thing to worry about in his gangster-killing day.
Don't insult Hot Guy Hawkeye's hot guy hair
 

cognizant

Member
Dec 19, 2017
6,446
I'm constantly amused by how everyone in the theater cheers when Dr Strange appears, then Quill shows up and the cheering dies down a notch, then Spidey leaps into frame and everyone goes nuts again.

I'm sure Pratt is like "James, please, you gotta make me cool again in the next one. Please. Even my kids hate me now. :("
 

itwasTuesday

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
8,078
You know for all the cheering during this movie, none of them matched the pop when Hulk slammed Loki in a1. My theater went damn nuts.
 

cognizant

Member
Dec 19, 2017
6,446
Let's talk about the "on your left" scene for a bit. I've been thinking about the structure of the scene. Would you all change it in any way or do you think it's perfect the way it is?

Here's the current structure (if I'm remembering it correctly):

Radio crackle.
"Do you read me?"
Radio crackle."
"It's Sam."
Radio crackle.
"On your left"
Cap sees a portal.

I've been considering what the reaction would be if you remove "It's Sam" so the big reaction would occur when we hear "on your left". As it is, the "Sam" dialogue kind of robs the subsequent "on your left" and portal reveal a little of its impact, because everyone is already reacting to his name and realising the heroes are returning. But I think you still need the 'do you read me' to set up the reveal, and plus some in the audience wouldn't immediately recognise his voice.
 

Sinder

Banned
Jul 24, 2018
7,576
Let's talk about the "on your left" scene for a bit. I've been thinking about the structure of the scene. Would you all change it in any way or do you think it's perfect the way it is?

Here's the current structure (if I'm remembering it correctly):

Radio crackle.
"Do you read me?"
Radio crackle."
"It's Sam."
Radio crackle.
"On your left"
Cap sees a portal.

I've been considering what the reaction would be if you remove "It's Sam" so the big reaction would occur when we hear "on your left". As it is, the "Sam" dialogue kind of robs the subsequent "on your left" and portal reveal a little of its impact, because everyone is already reacting to his name and realising the heroes are returning. But I think you still need the 'do you read me' to set up the reveal, and plus some in the audience wouldn't immediately recognise his voice.
I don’t think it would make a difference. The real pop is when Strange shows up.
 

JB1981

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
11,842
Why is Cap looking at the pic of Peggy Carter before going to get Thanos? Kinda out of nowhere
 

THErest

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,915
Maybe Iron Man didn’t kill Thanos but instead his ”wish” was to just move Thanos and his army though time and space to their own 2014 Timeline with No memories of it!

Wouldn’t that use more of the Infinity Stones’s power?
For breaking down, moving though the quantum realm and rebuilding atoms with memories removed sound like it would use a lot more energy than just only to break them down or only to rebuild them?

At least this would make Iron Man a more mercyful Hero who even if when he could kill Thanos and his army didn’t choose to do that! That would prove that Tony Stark had a heart
Iron Man never had a problem killing people. He was smoking fools in his very first outing as Iron Man. He never stopped.
 

THErest

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,915
Speaking of the "search for Gamora"...

How in the heck would she have gotten off-planet? Like, it shouldn't be some big search.
 
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