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Avengers: Endgame |Spoiler OT| Let's go get this son of a bitch

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Oct 28, 2017
430
Clint: "So, before me and Natasha go get the Soulstone, is there anything we need to know? Like do we need to know anything important about how to get it? Is there anything we need to do to find it? Anything we'd really need to know beforehand?"

Nebula: "... ... ...No."
Imagine being an audience member to a movie and getting worked up when characters in the movie react a certain way as if they know what you know as an audience member.
 
Thanos didn't even know how getting the Soul Stone worked.
Nobody did. Not Thanos, not Nebula, not even Gamora.

It might even be possible that nobody ever knew and that's why the Soul Gem had been left untouched since the beginning of the universe when the other five gems were clearly taken from their own "Vormir" and shuffled around the universe over millions of years.

Maybe there was no one to tell folks what they needed to sacrifice for the Soul Gem until the Space Gem spat Red Skull out on Vormir.
 

Solo

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,972
Instead of OT2 we should just ban all Avengers talk across all threads. Would love to see the box office thread this week without it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
63
So, we now have an alternate universe where Loki got the Tesseract early. Another where Thanos died before GotG, and another one where Cap stayed behind and probably prevented a bunch of bad stuff from happening, correct?

What do you think is more likely, Ultimate MCU, Incursions, Kang, Secret War Doom, or something else?
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,500
So, we now have an alternate universe where Loki got the Tesseract early. Another where Thanos died before GotG, and another one where Cap stayed behind and probably prevented a bunch of bad stuff from happening, correct?

What do you think is more likely, Ultimate MCU, Incursions, Kang, Secret War Doom, or something else?
Disney+ stuff. What If, Loki show, etc.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,356
Thinking about Captain Marvel, it seems clear they wrote the EG script without knowing details of her own movie because the Rambeaus are not even mentioned.

The movie was about the effect of the snap and we don't know if Carol's best friends were dusted or not.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,531
Socially unaware? Fuck off dude.

Why is Cap whipping out a pic of Peggy Carter before fighting Thanos? We know why, because the writers wanted to plant that seed in the story, but there’s very little reason he would do something like that. It’s not like he whips out her pic all the time lol
It’s a classic ‘fighter pilot looks across at sepia photo of sweetheart in cockpit before going on suicide mission’ thing
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,196
I saw this again over the weekend with my little bro. Tony has really grown on me from Ironman to Endgame. I didn't really like him back then but his showing in Endgame was just everything.

The guilt and anger in the beginning, the inability to stay away from it despite having something very precious, figuring out the time stuff, sacrificing himself for everyone, etc... It was great.

Also, Black Widow's first scene after the 5 year mark gets me when I see it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,479
You're talking about the multiverse itself. What I'm talking about is a direct consequence of the avengers time traveling. Sure, eventually it's all just part of the multiverse, but it's part of the multiverse the avengers are directly responsible for.

It could be an interesting and fun narrative for the avengers to deal with. Perhaps a multiverse character can come in to play and make the avengers fix the mess they caused or some such. Perhaps people from one of the alternate realities where the accumulation of time travelers had severe consequences figured out how to travel to the original timeline that started the time travel shenanigans and come to get revenge.
I don’t think the accumulation of time travelers will cause problems for anyone because it’ll just create an alternate universe- and there’s capacity for infinite universes.

One potential avenue for arevenge plot could be the ramifications of a one of the timelines that has deviated in relation to the prime timeline. 2014 Thanos being eliminated, 2012 Loki escaping, and Cap jumping back to the 40’s could have huge ramifications for those alternate timelines, and it would be interesting if someone jumped from the future, creating a branch of our prime timeline where he makes the Avengers pay- it could be an interesting take on Kang the Conqueror.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
2,378
Would be cool if they did a MASSIVE super-cut with all the movies.
There's a fan project that has been editing them into tv-length episodes for a while. Haven't seen but the comments are positive.

Thinking about the way Tarentino just put out the 4 part episodic version of Hateful 8 on Netflix makes that an interesting prospect.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,466
Am I the only one that wants them to get rid of Black Panther's suit with dumb shockwave powers?

Felt like they had it perfect with everything in Civil War.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,131
That was a line that directly tied into 2012 Thanos appearing before them, wasn't it?
That's what the movie's going into, but Tony said it to Cap before they even saw Thanos in the ruins of Avengers HQ. From their perspective there was just the snap (with them covering HQ and not knowing what would occur when it had been done) and then the ruins with that line after Tony found Cap when he asked what the heck happened.

I found it really interesting for Tony to mention that line too considering he was the one that seemed very reluctant about using timetravel and how it could potentially screwup things if not done right originally. Again might be nothing, but it's interesting that Tony mentioned it before they saw that Thanos had comeback into the future.
That's what I was hoping. There's some posts on the consequences in this thread. If you think about it, say the reality where Hulk talks to TAO, then the Hulk from that reality would eventually go back in time and then there would be two Hulks trying to talk to TAO at the same time, three the next time, four, and so on. Plus, for every time this happens, all the other realities have to be branched (copied) as well, so it grows exponentially. It's not just something that can keep on growing, they either have to devise a system to stop it from happening, or there needs to be some outside intervening. Would be cool if they go in that direction, get even more real consequences for what Thanos did, and would be interesting in its own right.

But after the screenwriter's comments on how he understood time travel, I don't think that's happening. At least not by them :(
Yeah it would be a nice way to have Thanos snap shakeup the MCU even more, even after the snap being reversed there'd still be consequences. I don't think they'd have to go too deep into it either, could just go with a villain like Kang or use it as a way to bring the more cosmic beings into the MCU later down the line because of what occured with all the timetravel and three snaps. (heck the living tribuneral was supposed to be in Infinity War on Titan at one point, so they'll probably introduce that type of stuff down the line)

I'm not too sure how far they'll go into it but the Wanda Vision and Loki shows seem like they might cover some alt reality stuff at least (Wanda Vision seemed to have concept art set in the 50's and then there's that open end for 2012 Loki in Endgame they can choose to adapt) all depends on where Fiege and co wanna go with it down the line I guess.
 
Oct 25, 2017
774
Pretty positive that she hit the button and it didn't work.
I watched it a second time looking for it - she never presses it because she loses control before she can. Her hand freezes before she presses it.

I don’t see any evidence in the movie that she regained control. She did press the button to jump, but she couldn’t because her location was scrambled up with Bad Nebula. Guess she can’t disable her WiFi
She regained control when she is able to run to the ship to try to use the communicator to talk to Nat and Clint.

She never pressed the button to jump. She tried to, but she lost control right before she did. She regains control after her memory was finished being accessed but instead of pressing it, she runs to the ship to try to contact Nat and Clint... then she lets herself be beamed up by Thanos.

The device she uses is the GPS to the present time and Bad Nebula couldn’t affect that.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
1,204
That's what the movie's going into, but Tony said it to Cap before they even saw Thanos in the ruins of Avengers HQ. From their perspective there was just the snap (with them covering HQ and not knowing what would occur when it had been done) and then the ruins with that line after Tony found Cap when he asked what the heck happened.
I'm pretty sure he knew Thanos was there. It's not like any of them were shocked when they walked up and saw him sitting there, despite knowing that Thor beheaded him 5 years ago.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,131
I'm pretty sure he knew Thanos was there. It's not like any of them were shocked when they walked up and saw him sitting there, despite knowing that Thor beheaded him 5 years ago.
Yeah that's a good point. Again probably just a throwaway line but I do enjoy when stuff has some forshadowing of the future.
 
Oct 25, 2017
413
I don’t think the accumulation of time travelers will cause problems for anyone because it’ll just create an alternate universe- and there’s capacity for infinite universes.
I'm talking about the accumulation of time travelers in the same spot/time. Hence the Hulk example. Every time they decide to get the Infinity Stones from the past, theyll add to the number of people. They'll notice that it's accumulating once they meet themselves as time travelers, and have to do something about it. And if they don't, it'll just keep accumulating. All of it originating from the initial MCU time travel stint.

It doesn't really matter that it'll just create alternate universes, that's just the logistics. What matters here is the morality of it. If by using time travel, you suddenly bring doom and destruction to an untold number of alternate realities, then it's not okay anymore. That's the reason why they decided to return the Infinity Stones from their respective realities, so that they would have the least amount of change to the reality that they would be responsible for. But as we see, that doesn't really hold up, there are going to be real problems eventually.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,479
I'm talking about the accumulation of time travelers in the same spot/time. Hence the Hulk example. Every time they decide to get the Infinity Stones from the past, theyll add to the number of people. They'll notice that it's accumulating once they meet themselves as time travelers, and have to do something about it. And if they don't, it'll just keep accumulating. All of it originating from the initial MCU time travel stint.

It doesn't really matter that it'll just create alternate universes, that's just the logistics. What matters here is the morality of it. If by using time travel, you suddenly bring doom and destruction to an untold number of alternate realities, then it's not okay anymore. That's the reason why they decided to return the Infinity Stones from their respective realities, so that they would have the least amount of change to the reality that they would be responsible for. But as we see, that doesn't really hold up, there are going to be real problems eventually.
They are in the same spot at the same time, but in completely different universes. They’ll never meet each other.

It seemed like you understood this in you last explanation.

Prime hulk lived through Prime 2012, then traveled to 2012A.

2012A Hulk lives through 2012A, then travels back to 2012B.

2012B Hulk lives through 2012B, then travels back to 2012C

2012C Hulk lives through 2012C. Then travels back to 2012D

There’s never an accumulation of time travelers. The only way there would be an accumulation of travelers is if they all went to 2012A, which isn’t how this works.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
1,204
But as we see, that doesn't really hold up, there are going to be real problems eventually.
maybe, but those 'real' problems aren't their problems. They are problems for that universe to handle.

the real time shenanigans begin when someone time travels into the prime timeline.
 
Oct 25, 2017
413
They are in the same spot at the same time, but in completely different universes. They’ll never meet each other.

It seemed like you understood this in you last explanation.

Prime hulk lived through Prime 2012, then traveled to 2012A.

2012A Hulk lives through 2012A, then travels back to 2012B.

2012B Hulk lives through 2012B, then travels back to 2012C

2012C Hulk lives through 2012C. Then travels back to 2012D

There’s never an accumulation of time travelers.
You didn't get the example.

If you go back in to your past, you go to a new reality, that is an exact copy of your past up until the point that you go to.

So take your universe 2012A. 2012A Hulk's past already includes 2012 Hulk, because 2012 Hulk traveled to 2012A. So when 2012A Hulk goes to 2012B it will include 2012 Hulk.
 
Oct 25, 2017
518
There's a fan project that has been editing them into tv-length episodes for a while. Haven't seen but the comments are positive.

Thinking about the way Tarentino just put out the 4 part episodic version of Hateful 8 on Netflix makes that an interesting prospect.
Oh pretty cool!
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,638
I think the major problem I have with Infinity War and Endgame is Thanos' plot armor.

The Avengers are so powerful that Thanos has to be gifted a ludicrous amount of things to even come close to winning.

1. Nick Fury deciding not to call up Captain Marvel once Thanos got multiple stones and when Thor and Hulk were out of commission.
2. Dr. Strange not using the timestone to reverse time and stop Peter Quill from screwing up the pretty effective plan of stealing the Gauntlet.
3. Nebula's network working in this very specific way.
4. Avengers not inviting Captain Marvel to go back in time with them.
5. Nebula not attempting to go back to the future after it failed the first time despite a pretty long amount of time to do so.
6. Dr. Strange not just using his teleportation powers to move the gauntlet away for a few seconds while Captain Marvel etc took out Thanos and his army considering that Thanos' army is completely outclassed at this point and the only way Thanos can win is by getting the Gauntlet.

Dr. Strange, Thor, and Captain Marvel are so absurdly powerful that the Avengers need to make a bunch of very bizarre decisions just to give Thanos any chance at all.

The 1 in 13 million scene is very irritating in light of how much incredible luck Thanos needs.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,451
Gonna miss him.

It's crazy when you think about how far he came...


Even further than that


It's crazy how I thought he wasn't fit for Captain America at first but now he's the most endearing part of this franchise. The Captain America in the MCU is leagues better than any incarnation in the comics.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,638
One more point I have is that Civil War 2 is probably the most potentially intriguing Event the series could do moving forward but to do, they're going to have to have some of the Avengers actually have strong philosophical beliefs that become established over the next few movies, with some of the Avengers potentially becoming just villains.

The main reason Civil War 2 the comic is one of the worst comics out there is that Captain Marvel becomes an insane fascist and one of the dumbest people alive with no comics buildup.

Some Avengers showing authoritarian tendencies that develop over time and then having those Avengers drift over to Magneto or Doctor Doom would be very interesting.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,479
You didn't get the example.

If you go back in to your past, you go to a new reality, that is an exact copy of your past up until the point that you go to.

So take your universe 2012A. 2012A Hulk's past already includes 2012 Hulk, because 2012 Hulk traveled to 2012A. So when 2012A Hulk goes to 2012B it will include 2012 Hulk.
No, when 2012A hulk goes to 2012B it will only have 2012B’s hulk. And this 2012B Hulk wouldn’t be meeting TAO, he’d be fighting the Chituri.

2012A Hulks history doesn’t include anything that 2012 Hulk did after 2012 Because 2012A’s universe was created when 2012 Hulk arrived.
 
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Oct 26, 2017
2,367
One more point I have is that Civil War 2 is probably the most potentially intriguing Event the series could do moving forward but to do, they're going to have to have some of the Avengers actually have strong philosophical beliefs that become established over the next few movies, with some of the Avengers potentially becoming just villains.

The main reason Civil War 2 the comic is one of the worst comics out there is that Captain Marvel becomes an insane fascist and one of the dumbest people alive with no comics buildup.

Some Avengers showing authoritarian tendencies that develop over time and then having those Avengers drift over to Magneto or Doctor Doom would be very interesting.
Adapting Civil War 2 would be completely pointless and would accomplish nothing but character assassinating the MCU's only female lead character.

The core of why Civil War was a successful adaptation wasn't the Superhero Registration Act/Sokovia Accords. The emotional core that made Civil War so good as a movie was that it was about the conflict between Cap, who just wanted to protect his friend who was victimized by the real villains, and Tony, who felt betrayed that Cap would protect the man who killed his parents.

There's no way that this could be replicated for Time Cop/Precog bullshit.
 
Oct 25, 2017
413
No, when 2012A hulk goes to 2012B it will only have 2012B’s hulk. 2012’s hulk never goes to 2012B.
Ok, you're almost there. Now, in 2012A's past, 2012 Hulk was there. So, when 2012A goes into their past in 2012B, 2012 Hulk must be there. So, 2012B contains 2012 Hulk.

Obviously the 2012 Hulk that we saw wasn't in 2012B, so 2012 must be branched off again, so now there is a 2012' Hulk that ends up in 2012B, where soon after they arrive 2012A Hulk arrives.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,638
Adapting Civil War 2 would be completely pointless and would accomplish nothing but character assassinating the MCU's only female lead character.

The core of why Civil War was a successful adaptation wasn't the Superhero Registration Act/Sokovia Accords. The emotional core that made Civil War so good as a movie was that it was about the conflict between Cap, who just wanted to protect his friend who was victimized by the real villains, and Tony, who felt betrayed that Cap would protect the man who killed his parents.

There's no way that this could be replicated for Time Cop/Precog bullshit.
I don't mean adapting the actual book.

But like the idea of the Avengers fighting again.

Like Logan the movie is an """""adaptation"""" of Old Man Logan but there are no similarities whatsoever (which is good, Old Man Logan is a disaster and a horrific piece of fiction).

The Avengers have just gotten so strong that a villain being able to challenge them would seem a little silly.
 
Oct 25, 2017
774
I think moving on, they should separate the two - Earth level heroes and cosmic level heroes. Keep the villains more grounded than Thanos until the X-Men/Fantastic Four are introduced then go with Galactus/Silver Surfer.

It would be awesome to see Old Cap as an advisor too.
 
Oct 30, 2017
4,771
Even further than that


It's crazy how I thought he wasn't fit for Captain America at first but now he's the most endearing part of this franchise. The Captain America in the MCU is leagues better than any incarnation in the comics.
I'll be bluntly honest...

Yeah, when I heard Chris "Human Torch" Evans was going to be Captain America, I was thinking "no, that's poor casting, and the stink of the Fantastic Four movies is going to follow him".

Couldn't be further from the truth.


He nailed it. Everyone always thinks RDJ was perfect casting (rightfully so), but JUST as much credit has to go to Chris Evans for taking a character that I was always bored by in the comics and making him such a multifaceted, nuanced, and inspiring character in the films.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,638
Still kind of amazed Civil War 2 the book was ever made.

Captain Marvel was obviously being pushed as one of the main Marvel characters and then they... turn her into an incredibly stupid fascist out of nowhere?
 
Oct 25, 2017
15,437
Socially unaware? Fuck off dude.

Why is Cap whipping out a pic of Peggy Carter before fighting Thanos? We know why, because the writers wanted to plant that seed in the story, but there’s very little reason he would do something like that. It’s not like he whips out her pic all the time lol
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,367
I don't mean adapting the actual book.

But like the idea of the Avengers fighting again.

Like Logan the movie is an """""adaptation"""" of Old Man Logan but there are no similarities whatsoever (which is good, Old Man Logan is a disaster and a horrific piece of fiction).

The Avengers have just gotten so strong that a villain being able to challenge them would seem a little silly.
If that's what you want then all they need to do is spar as an exercise. Even in Civil War (the movie) it's not like anybody was actually playing for keeps.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,638
If that's what you want then all they need to do is spar as an exercise. Even in Civil War (the movie) it's not like anybody was actually playing for keeps.
Well in Civil War (the movie), yes.

But I do think an actual conflict that had real stakes and deaths would be very interesting and manage to not have the "... And this guy is like 10x more powerful than Thanos!" power creep issue.
 
Nov 6, 2017
1,405
Part of me wants there to be a sequence in Guardians 3 where Thor and Carol get drunk, have a fight, destroy something and have to sober up or something. It'd be funny to see Quill having to be the responsible one in straightening them out.

Though I doubt they'd give Carol her 616 drinking problem. It'd at least give the character something interesting.

I don't even know if Thor will still be fat the next time we see him.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,451
I would love for Doom to be the next overarching big bad for this new generation of MCU movies.

Making an interpretation of Doom that works in film in general would be a feat. I love the character, but he does have certain design aspects that make him...a bit goofy for live adaptation. Confident that they would make it work though.
 
Oct 30, 2017
4,771
I would love for Doom to be the next overarching big bad for this new generation of MCU movies.

Making an interpretation of Doom that works in film in general would be a feat. I love the character, but he does have certain design aspects that make him...a bit goofy for live adaptation. Confident that they would make it work though.
Doom would be perfect with the right approach in a post-Thanos world.

The whole point of Doom is he thinks the world (even the universe) is at risk from greater threats than humanity is capable of dealing with, that the world is disorganized, hateful, and divided to stand against them, and has the arrogance to assume that if he were to unite the world under his rule he could save all of humanity through his "benevolent" dictatorship.

... And, depending on the context of the story, he's entirely right. When he confronted the gods of Black Panther, they judged him as entirely righteous in his goals and ambitions. His methods are often extreme and villainous, but his ultimate aims are altruistic.




He's the hero of his own story.

In a post-Thanos world, he would see his need to unite and rule even more important than ever before.
 
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