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Avengers: Endgame |Spoiler OT| Let's go get this son of a bitch

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Oct 30, 2017
1,452
Doom would be perfect with the right approach in a post-Thanos world.

The whole point of Doom is he thinks the world (even the universe) is at risk from greater threats than humanity is capable of dealing with, that the world is disorganized, hateful, and divided to stand against them, and has the arrogance to assume that if he were to unite the world under his rule he could save all of humanity through his "benevolent" dictatorship.

... And, depending on the context of the story, he's entirely right. When he confronted the gods of Black Panther, they judged him as entirely righteous in his goals and ambitions. His methods are often extreme and villainous, but his ultimate aims are altruistic.




He's the hero of his own story.

In a post-Thanos world, he would see his need to unite and rule even more important than ever before.
Agreed, unfortunately they ruined my dream casting of him by getting Mikkelsen as that forgettable Dr Strange villain. I wonder how they would deal with the mask - it would be hard for the actor to emote unless they go an Ironman route and do a headshot view.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,928
Agreed, unfortunately they ruined my dream casting of him by getting Mikkelsen as that forgettable Dr Strange villain. I wonder how they would deal with the mask - it would be hard for the actor to emote unless they go an Ironman route and do a headshot view.
Mikkelsen would've been a poor Doom. Being in a mask robs Mads of his power
 
Oct 30, 2017
4,771
Agreed, unfortunately they ruined my dream casting of him by getting Mikkelsen as that forgettable Dr Strange villain. I wonder how they would deal with the mask - it would be hard for the actor to emote unless they go an Ironman route and do a headshot view.
They gotta do the mask.

It's not like they haven't entirely covered their actors up to be unrecognizable or hidden before. Even big actors like Brolin and Spader were just voice and motion capture and they were fine with it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,264
Sunderland
What do we think about Jason Isaacs for the new Magneto.

A Jewish actor would be cool I think.
I think he's too old for the part and too young for his current origin story. They need to cast an actor who will be in his (or her) thirties in about five years time. The origin story will need to be tweaked or there will have to be some kind of framing device to explain Magneto's youthful appearance despite being a holocaust survivor.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,479
Ok, you're almost there. Now, in 2012A's past, 2012 Hulk was there. So, when 2012A goes into their past in 2012B, 2012 Hulk must be there. So, 2012B contains 2012 Hulk.

Obviously the 2012 Hulk that we saw wasn't in 2012B, so 2012 must be branched off again, so now there is a 2012' Hulk that ends up in 2012B, where soon after they arrive 2012A Hulk arrives.
Sigh.

There’s only ever two Hulks in any given timeline. Let’s just walk it through.

2012 Prime Hulk Is feral. He grows up, survives the snap, and becomes Smart Hulk. He then travels back in time to 2012A. He sees feral 2012A Hulk. He then gets the timestone then returns to Prime timeline.

2012A feral Hulk grows up, survives the snap in his universe. Becomes smart hulk. He then Travels back in time to 2012B. He sees feral 2012B Hulk, gets the timestone, then returns to 2012A. (He never sees 2012 prime hulk, because 2012 prime hulk never comes to 2012B)

2012B feral hulk grows up, survives the snap in his universe. Becomes smart hulk. He then travels back in time to 2012C. He encounters feral 2012C Hulk, gets the timestone, then returns to 2012B. (He never sees 2012 Hulk or 2012A Hulk, because those guys never come to 2012C.)

Rinse and repeat. There’s no accumulation.
 
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Oct 30, 2017
1,452
Did you miss the purple giant with a nutsack for a chin?
They gotta do the mask.

It's not like they haven't entirely covered their actors up to be unrecognizable or hidden before. Even big actors like Brolin and Spader were just voice and motion capture and they were fine with it.
Yeah but Ultron and Thanos could both emote without something covering their face. That being said, Spider-Man and Black Panther workf. I'm sure Marvel will make it work, I'm just not sure what route they'd take, since Doom doesn't like showing his face in the comics.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,122
Sigh.

There’s only ever two Hulks in any given timeline. Let’s just walk it through.

2012 Prime Hulk Is feral. He grows up, survives the snap, and becomes Smart Hulk. He then travels back in time to 2012A. He sees feral 2012A Hulk. He then gets the timestone then returns to Prime timeline.

2012A feral Hulk grows up, survives the snap in his universe. Becomes smart hulk. He then Travels back in time to 2012B. He sees feral 2012B Hulk, gets the timestone, then returns to 2012A. (He never sees 2012 prime hulk, because 2012 prime hulk never comes to 2012B)
Why would 2012B branch from 2012 rather than 2012A?
 
Oct 22, 2018
1,486
Just came back from watching Endgame. Its not the best MCU movie (not even in the top three), but its still damn great, I really liked it.

Loved the endings for both Tony and Cap.

Unpopular opinion, but I would like the next avengers to be smaller in scale, and only have 6-7 avengers like the Avengers 1. And dont include guardians and captain marvel outside of cameos or something.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,003
Finally watched it.

What a perfect ending. Both Captain and Tony finally at peace, after all the bullshit they've been through.

I wish there was one more Hulk vs Thanos fight during the big epic battle, like a personal fight. I would of loved it and that Hulk is so pissed at what happened that he turns back into the barbaric, animal Hulk while kicking Thanos' ass.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,479
Why would 2012B branch from 2012 rather than 2012A?
It doesn’t. 2012 B branches from 2012A.

That’s what I said.

This is why there’s no accumulation of timetravelers. Each time traveler is arriving at a different branch in relation to the one before him.
 
Oct 25, 2017
413
It doesn’t. 2012 B branches from 2012A.

That’s what I said.

This is why there’s no accumulation of timetravelers. Each time traveler is arriving at a different branch in relation to the one before him.
You're already there, but you're missing what I said, haha. 2012B branches from 2012A, which has future 2012 Hulk in it.

And you already got, that 2012 Hulk wouldn't be there, because he went to 2012A. SO, 2012 branches into another reality, creating 2012', where 2012 Hulk lands in 2012B instead of A.
 
Feb 28, 2018
928
One thing I did like about Cap and Starks endings was Stark needed to do something completely selfless and Cap was given the opportunity to do something for himself.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,307
1. Nick Fury deciding not to call up Captain Marvel once Thanos got multiple stones and when Thor and Hulk were out of commission
That one is only shown so late for dramatic effect. Even when Fury did use the pager, it took days or weeks for her to turnup, as per the CM end credits scene. The events of infinity war take a day or two at most, she simply wouldn't have arrived in time.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,479
You're already there, but you're missing what I said, haha. 2012B branches from 2012A, which has future 2012 Hulk in it.

And you already got, that 2012 Hulk wouldn't be there, because he went to 2012A. SO, 2012 branches into another reality, creating 2012', where 2012 Hulk lands in 2012B instead of A.
No, the moment 2012A Hulk arrives in 2012B it creates a new fork in the road.

the main road would be 2012A (which would have 2012 Hulk show up)

the Branch road would 2012B (which would have 2012A Hulk show up INSTEAD of 2012 Hulk)

You are imagining that the Branch is occurring at after the timetravelers arrive. But it’s occuring at the instant they arrive.

Your assumption doesn’t work, because we know you can’t change an individuals history. 2012 Hulk never ran into multiple timetravelers when he went back. That is set in stone. which means future iterations will never run into 2012 Hulk.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
413
No, the moment 2012A Hulk arrives in 2012B it creates a new fork in the road.

the main road would be 2012A (which would have 2012 Hulk show up)

the Branch road would 2012B (which would have 2012A Hulk show up INSTEAD of 2012 Hulk)

You are imagining that the Branch is occurring at after the timetravelers arrive. But it’s occuring at the instant they arrive.
This only applies if 2012A Hulk goes back in time to before 2012 Hulk arrived, which is in no way a guarantee. They will choose to arrive earlier than the other sometime.

Arriving at the same time should be no different than if it were afterward, I don't see why that wouldn't happen, since that is what happened in reality 2012A.

But, even if its before, or at the exact same moment, Hulk 2012 arriving in the universe is a completely external factor. There isn't anything they can do to change that, so even if 2012A Hulk goes back in time to before 2012 Hulk arrived, 2012' Hulk would still arrive, otherwise it wouldn't be an actual copy of 2012A.
 
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Apr 27, 2018
2,007
I wish there was one more Hulk vs Thanos fight during the big epic battle, like a personal fight. I would of loved it and that Hulk is so pissed at what happened that he turns back into the barbaric, animal Hulk while kicking Thanos' ass.
First time watching it I actually had a smile on my face when after the explosions it was revealed Hulk was holding up the debris near Rhodey and Rocket as I assumed he was about to do something awesome to get out of there, reverting to savage Hulk or something. I still liked the moment when Ant-Man goes to make the save but opening night I was a little disappointed how that moment played out.
 
Jun 14, 2018
3,015
Finally watched it.

What a perfect ending. Both Captain and Tony finally at peace, after all the bullshit they've been through.

I wish there was one more Hulk vs Thanos fight during the big epic battle, like a personal fight. I would of loved it and that Hulk is so pissed at what happened that he turns back into the barbaric, animal Hulk while kicking Thanos' ass.
For reals... all big 3 (iron man, cap and thor) went out in the best way possible. It's going to be super hard to find as charismatic actors as downing and evans for phase 4 and beyond.

Cap finally got his dance with his love, that was perfect ending.
 

Solo

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,972
Time travel is cool. Online debates about time travel were the mistake.
Haha yes this is more what I mean. The use of time travel guaranteed from day one that this thread would be filled almost entirely about how it works or doesnt work rather than about the other hundred interesting things about the movie.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,451
Is it possible that they are doing movies involving the different timelines introduced in EG?
Seems pretty unlikely, although maybe that Loki Disney+ series will follow the Loki who escaped with the Tesseract in 2012. Which puts a new spin on the "Loki messes with history" premise of the show.
 

fick

Member
Nov 24, 2018
896
For a 3 hour movie, it went surprisingly fast on my second watch.

Whether or not this movie deserves any recognition for artistry, the sheer scope and range of the MCU deserves some sort of commendation. The fact that they were able to wrap up a 22 movie series satisfyingly, with just the right amount of fan service, in incredible. I really hope there's a documentary in the works. It'd be really interesting to see just how much was planned from the start, and what was added later.

edit: also I want a standalone Cap movie of him going back in time solo.
 

Solo

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,972
For reals... all big 3 (iron man, cap and thor) went out in the best way possible. It's going to be super hard to find as charismatic actors as downing and evans for phase 4 and beyond.

Cap finally got his dance with his love, that was perfect ending.
I mean, he didnt go out per se anyway, but I have a hard time believing Thor went out the best way possible. Unless depressed, fat and directionless is as good as it gets!
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,233
Bothell WA
So after seeing it a 2nd time, something that caught my eye with Clint and Nat when getting the Soul stone... Did Widow slip her Stinger bracelet onto Clint while they were fighting? Cause we know she's the one that has the grappling hook and she slyly launches it and hooks it onto Clint as they're falling. But when we see Clint with the gauntlet in the tunnels, it looks like he has one of Widow's Stinger bracelets on as he also uses a grappling hook to ascent upwards. Now I can't remember if he shot an arrow up for it or not.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,479
This only applies if 2012A Hulk goes bacl in time to before 2012 Hulk arrived, which is in no way a guarantee. they will choose to arrive earlier than the other sometime.

At the same time should be no different than if it were afterward, I don't see why that wouldn't happen then, since that is what happened reality 2012A.

But, even if its before, or at the exact same moment, Hulk 2012 arriving in the universe is a completely external factor. There isn't anything they can do to change that, so even if 2012A Hulk goes back in time to before 2012 Hulk arrived, 2012' Hulk would still arrive, otherwise it wouldn't be an actual copy of 2012A.
2012B Is a copy of 2012A up until the point a time-traveler arrives. from that point on, it’s a completely different universe. Prior to that point, there are no timetravelers to copy over to the new branch.

So if you looked at 2012A, it’s identical to prime...until Prime 2012Hulk arrives, creating 2012A, and making it different from Prime 2012

If you look at 2012B it’s, it’s identical to 2012A, until 2012A Hulk arrives, creating 2012B, making it different from 2012A.

That difference IS who is showing showing up from when/where...

2012 Hulk can’t be in 2012A and 2012B and 2012C, because 2012Hulks history is set in stone, and he never encountered multiple time travelers in the history that we witnessed. He went to 2012A, then went back to his own timeline. That’s it, no more time traveling for him.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
2,406
New Zealand
Sigh.

There’s only ever two Hulks in any given timeline. Let’s just walk it through.

2012 Prime Hulk Is feral. He grows up, survives the snap, and becomes Smart Hulk. He then travels back in time to 2012A. He sees feral 2012A Hulk. He then gets the timestone then returns to Prime timeline.

2012A feral Hulk grows up, survives the snap in his universe. Becomes smart hulk. He then Travels back in time to 2012B. He sees feral 2012B Hulk, gets the timestone, then returns to 2012A. (He never sees 2012 prime hulk, because 2012 prime hulk never comes to 2012B)

2012B feral hulk grows up, survives the snap in his universe. Becomes smart hulk. He then travels back in time to 2012C. He encounters feral 2012C Hulk, gets the timestone, then returns to 2012B. (He never sees 2012 Hulk or 2012A Hulk, because those guys never come to 2012C.)

Rinse and repeat. There’s no accumulation.
Except when 2012A Feral Hulk grows up, theres presumably no space stone because in that universe Loki stole it, so theres a chance that the snap never even happens in that universe.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,451
So after seeing it a 2nd time, something that caught my eye with Clint and Nat when getting the Soul stone... Did Widow slip her Stinger bracelet onto Clint while they were fighting? Cause we know she's the one that has the grappling hook and she slyly launches it and hooks it onto Clint as they're falling. But when we see Clint with the gauntlet in the tunnels, it looks like he has one of Widow's Stinger bracelets on as he also uses a grappling hook to ascent upwards. Now I can't remember if he shot an arrow up for it or not.
She grapples it on to him after they go over the cliff, so that he's the one hanging from it rather than her. That way he can't detach himself or he'd kill them both.
 

V_ac

Avenger
Jul 2, 2018
1,123
So after seeing it a 2nd time, something that caught my eye with Clint and Nat when getting the Soul stone... Did Widow slip her Stinger bracelet onto Clint while they were fighting? Cause we know she's the one that has the grappling hook and she slyly launches it and hooks it onto Clint as they're falling. But when we see Clint with the gauntlet in the tunnels, it looks like he has one of Widow's Stinger bracelets on as he also uses a grappling hook to ascent upwards. Now I can't remember if he shot an arrow up for it or not.
Yeah, she gave Clint one of her Stingers before she fell. You can see it on him when he first wakes up after getting the Soul Stone too.
 
Oct 26, 2017
232
Watched the movie again for a 3rd time. Only other movie I’ve seen more than twice in the cinema was The Force Awakens. I think this will be the movie to finally take on Avatar.

I timed from the moment of Bruce’s snap to the first portal. Strange had roughly 14 minutes to open portals to Wong and the rest of the sorcerers to explain the plan so everything seems to make sense to me with how many people they were able to recruit/explain what happened (as well as Howard the Duck lol who I finally spotted).

Also I think Gamora hitched a ride on one of the many ships that came through the portals. Even though she has a connection with Nebula and trusts her it doesn’t make sense she would just join the Guardians right away as she doesn’t know who they are. Looking back at Infinity War and how sad she was when she ‘killed’ Thanos, she would be kind of shaken after this battle seeing her father die so I can see her running off after the battle. Then again... Gamora has a rep. So she must have found like a ravager faction or something who trusted her enough to take her along.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,233
Bothell WA
She grapples it on to him after they go over the cliff, so that he's the one hanging from it rather than her. That way he can't detach himself or he'd kill them both.
Yeah, I noticed that part. I guess what I was getting it is the later part when he's in the tunnels.

Yeah, she gave Clint one of her Stingers before she fell. You can see it on him when he first wakes up after getting the Soul Stone too.
Oh ok, nice. I knew I wasn't crazy.
 
Oct 25, 2017
413
2012B Is a copy of 2012A up until the point a time-traveler arrives. from that point on it’s a completely different universe. Prior to that point, there are no timetravelers to copy over to the new branch.

2012 Hulk can’t be in 2012A and 2012B and 2012C, because 2012Hulks history is set in stone, and he never encountered multiple time travelers in the history that we witnessed.
Yes, it's an exact copy up to that point, but that also means that at that point in time, there was a copy of 2012 reality where it was set in motion that a Hulk would go to 2012B.

Even if it were as you say, it won't make a difference when they go back in time to after the point where 2012 Hulk arrives. At that point, there must be another 2012 reality copy, of which a Hulk is now present in 2012B. (and given that, you can inferr that the 2012 reality copy was probably already set in motion before that actual arrival of Hulk, so probably, even if they go back in time to before 2012 Hulk's arrival, he will still arrive.)
 
Jun 14, 2018
3,015
I mean, he didnt go out per se anyway, but I have a hard time believing Thor went out the best way possible. Unless depressed, fat and directionless is as good as it gets!
haha... what I meant was that he is now supposed to be who he really is and not some king to live up to his father as his mom advised. :)
 
Oct 25, 2017
413
Heres what the time travel discussion in here makes me think of:

Oh come on! Time travel shenanigans are fun, and it's cool to think of the possibilities. Lord knows we don't have many time travel movies that are logically consistent or non paradoxical.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,479
Except when 2012A Feral Hulk grows up, theres presumably no space stone because in that universe Loki stole it, so theres a chance that the snap never even happens in that universe.
Yeah this is true. We probably shouldn’t have been using 2012 as an example because the timeline changed so much. Would’ve been better to use the Aether timeline.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,063
So Pierce says the tesseract has been Shield property for seventy years. Tony goes and pulls it out of a box in the seventies, so that seems fair, they must have pulled it out of the ocean and boxed it away.

... so why did Mar-Vell have it? I thought they were retelling the history of the tesseract with that movie, implying Shield didn't get ahold of it until that cat puked it up on Fury's desk. But I guess not? Did Mar-Vell steal it from Shield in the 90s?
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,233
Bothell WA
So Pierce says the tesseract has been Shield property for seventy years. Tony goes and pulls it out of a box in the seventies, so that seems fair, they must have pulled it out of the ocean and boxed it away.

... so why did Mar-Vell have it? I thought they were retelling the history of the tesseract with that movie, implying Shield didn't get ahold of it until that cat puked it up on Fury's desk. But I guess not? Did Mar-Vell steal it from Shield in the 90s?
Mar-Vel was working on Project Pegasus which was part of SHIELD. So technically SHIELD has had it in possession since Howard fished it out of the ocean in the 40's.
 
Oct 27, 2017
14,773
So, we now have an alternate universe where Loki got the Tesseract early. Another where Thanos died before GotG, and another one where Cap stayed behind and probably prevented a bunch of bad stuff from happening, correct?

What do you think is more likely, Ultimate MCU, Incursions, Kang, Secret War Doom, or something else?
I think Kang is perfect for whatever they end up calling the Young Avengers. (Although it might seem a weird introduction to the character.)
 
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