Avengers: Endgame |Spoiler OT| Let's go get this son of a bitch

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I think the major problem I have with Infinity War and Endgame is Thanos' plot armor.

The Avengers are so powerful that Thanos has to be gifted a ludicrous amount of things to even come close to winning.

1. Nick Fury deciding not to call up Captain Marvel once Thanos got multiple stones and when Thor and Hulk were out of commission.
2. Dr. Strange not using the timestone to reverse time and stop Peter Quill from screwing up the pretty effective plan of stealing the Gauntlet.
3. Nebula's network working in this very specific way.
4. Avengers not inviting Captain Marvel to go back in time with them.
5. Nebula not attempting to go back to the future after it failed the first time despite a pretty long amount of time to do so.
6. Dr. Strange not just using his teleportation powers to move the gauntlet away for a few seconds while Captain Marvel etc took out Thanos and his army considering that Thanos' army is completely outclassed at this point and the only way Thanos can win is by getting the Gauntlet.

Dr. Strange, Thor, and Captain Marvel are so absurdly powerful that the Avengers need to make a bunch of very bizarre decisions just to give Thanos any chance at all.

The 1 in 13 million scene is very irritating in light of how much incredible luck Thanos needs.

 

[roflwaffles]

Gonna miss him.

It's crazy when you think about how far he came...

Click to shrink...

Even further than that



It's crazy how I thought he wasn't fit for Captain America at first but now he's the most endearing part of this franchise. The Captain America in the MCU is leagues better than any incarnation in the comics.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

One more point I have is that Civil War 2 is probably the most potentially intriguing Event the series could do moving forward but to do, they're going to have to have some of the Avengers actually have strong philosophical beliefs that become established over the next few movies, with some of the Avengers potentially becoming just villains.

The main reason Civil War 2 the comic is one of the worst comics out there is that Captain Marvel becomes an insane fascist and one of the dumbest people alive with no comics buildup.

Some Avengers showing authoritarian tendencies that develop over time and then having those Avengers drift over to Magneto or Doctor Doom would be very interesting.

 

[Trup1aya]

You didn't get the example.

If you go back in to your past, you go to a new reality, that is an exact copy of your past up until the point that you go to.

So take your universe 2012A. 2012A Hulk's past already includes 2012 Hulk, because 2012 Hulk traveled to 2012A. So when 2012A Hulk goes to 2012B it will include 2012 Hulk.

Click to shrink...

No, when 2012A hulk goes to 2012B it will only have 2012B's hulk. And this 2012B Hulk wouldn't be meeting TAO, he'd be fighting the Chituri.

2012A Hulks history doesn't include anything that 2012 Hulk did after 2012 Because 2012A's universe was created when 2012 Hulk arrived.

 

[Kin5290]

One more point I have is that Civil War 2 is probably the most potentially intriguing Event the series could do moving forward but to do, they're going to have to have some of the Avengers actually have strong philosophical beliefs that become established over the next few movies, with some of the Avengers potentially becoming just villains.

The main reason Civil War 2 the comic is one of the worst comics out there is that Captain Marvel becomes an insane fascist and one of the dumbest people alive with no comics buildup.

Some Avengers showing authoritarian tendencies that develop over time and then having those Avengers drift over to Magneto or Doctor Doom would be very interesting.

Click to shrink...

Adapting Civil War 2 would be completely pointless and would accomplish nothing but character assassinating the MCU's only female lead character.

The core of why Civil War was a successful adaptation wasn't the Superhero Registration Act/Sokovia Accords. The emotional core that made Civil War so good as a movie was that it was about the conflict between Cap, who just wanted to protect his friend who was victimized by the real villains, and Tony, who felt betrayed that Cap would protect the man who killed his parents.

There's no way that this could be replicated for Time Cop/Precog bullshit.

 

[Deleted member 1445]

No, when 2012A hulk goes to 2012B it will only have 2012B's hulk. 2012's hulk never goes to 2012B.

Click to shrink...

Ok, you're almost there. Now, in 2012A's past, 2012 Hulk was there. So, when 2012A goes into their past in 2012B, 2012 Hulk must be there. So, 2012B contains 2012 Hulk.

Obviously the 2012 Hulk that we saw wasn't in 2012B, so 2012 must be branched off again, so now there is a 2012' Hulk that ends up in 2012B, where soon after they arrive 2012A Hulk arrives.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Adapting Civil War 2 would be completely pointless and would accomplish nothing but character assassinating the MCU's only female lead character.

The core of why Civil War was a successful adaptation wasn't the Superhero Registration Act/Sokovia Accords. The emotional core that made Civil War so good as a movie was that it was about the conflict between Cap, who just wanted to protect his friend who was victimized by the real villains, and Tony, who felt betrayed that Cap would protect the man who killed his parents.

There's no way that this could be replicated for Time Cop/Precog bullshit.

Click to shrink...

I don't mean adapting the actual book.

But like the idea of the Avengers fighting again.

Like Logan the movie is an """""adaptation"""" of Old Man Logan but there are no similarities whatsoever (which is good, Old Man Logan is a disaster and a horrific piece of fiction).

The Avengers have just gotten so strong that a villain being able to challenge them would seem a little silly.

 

[Shrennin]

I think moving on, they should separate the two - Earth level heroes and cosmic level heroes. Keep the villains more grounded than Thanos until the X-Men/Fantastic Four are introduced then go with Galactus/Silver Surfer.

It would be awesome to see Old Cap as an advisor too.

 

[Garlador]

Even further than that



It's crazy how I thought he wasn't fit for Captain America at first but now he's the most endearing part of this franchise. The Captain America in the MCU is leagues better than any incarnation in the comics.

Click to shrink...

I'll be bluntly honest...

Yeah, when I heard Chris "Human Torch" Evans was going to be Captain America, I was thinking "no, that's poor casting, and the stink of the Fantastic Four movies is going to follow him".

Couldn't be further from the truth.

He nailed it. Everyone always thinks RDJ was perfect casting (rightfully so), but JUST as much credit has to go to Chris Evans for taking a character that I was always bored by in the comics and making him such a multifaceted, nuanced, and inspiring character in the films.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Still kind of amazed Civil War 2 the book was ever made.

Captain Marvel was obviously being pushed as one of the main Marvel characters and then they... turn her into an incredibly stupid fascist out of nowhere?

 

[Deleted member 2145]

Socially unaware? Fuck off dude.

Why is Cap whipping out a pic of Peggy Carter before fighting Thanos? We know why, because the writers wanted to plant that seed in the story, but there's very little reason he would do something like that. It's not like he whips out her pic all the time lol

Click to shrink...

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

I think moving on, they should separate the two - Earth level heroes and cosmic level heroes. Keep the villains more grounded than Thanos until the X-Men/Fantastic Four are introduced then go with Galactus/Silver Surfer.

It would be awesome to see Old Cap as an advisor too.

Click to shrink...

Kang should be the next big bad before the FF and X-Men

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Kang should be the next big bad before the FF and X-Men

Click to shrink...

This movie was Back to the Future: Avengers, not sure they're going to do another time travel movie.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

This movie was Back to the Future: Avengers, not sure they're going to do another time travel movie.

Click to shrink...

Doesn't have to involve much time travel. Just say that the time travel in endgame set off a beacon and attracted him to our time. The rest can just be a story like Kang Dynasty where he takes over earth.

 

[Kin5290]

I don't mean adapting the actual book.

But like the idea of the Avengers fighting again.

Like Logan the movie is an """""adaptation"""" of Old Man Logan but there are no similarities whatsoever (which is good, Old Man Logan is a disaster and a horrific piece of fiction).

The Avengers have just gotten so strong that a villain being able to challenge them would seem a little silly.

Click to shrink...

If that's what you want then all they need to do is spar as an exercise. Even in Civil War (the movie) it's not like anybody was actually playing for keeps.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

If that's what you want then all they need to do is spar as an exercise. Even in Civil War (the movie) it's not like anybody was actually playing for keeps.

Click to shrink...

Well in Civil War (the movie), yes.

But I do think an actual conflict that had real stakes and deaths would be very interesting and manage to not have the "... And this guy is like 10x more powerful than Thanos!" power creep issue.

 

[LL_Decitrig]

Imagine getting mad at people reacting to fan service moments

Click to shrink...

We had a quite long thread about this a week or two ago. There is a lot of diversity in attitudes to noisy behaviour in a cinema.

 

[Ragnorok64]

Part of me wants there to be a sequence in Guardians 3 where Thor and Carol get drunk, have a fight, destroy something and have to sober up or something. It'd be funny to see Quill having to be the responsible one in straightening them out.

Though I doubt they'd give Carol her 616 drinking problem. It'd at least give the character something interesting.

I don't even know if Thor will still be fat the next time we see him.

 

[roflwaffles]

I would love for Doom to be the next overarching big bad for this new generation of MCU movies.

Making an interpretation of Doom that works in film in general would be a feat. I love the character, but he does have certain design aspects that make him...a bit goofy for live adaptation. Confident that they would make it work though.

 

[Plutone]

Am I the only one that wants them to get rid of Black Panther's suit with dumb shockwave powers?

Felt like they had it perfect with everything in Civil War.

Click to shrink...

Bro he has burst from a fighting game there's nothing cooler than that

 

[Garlador]

I would love for Doom to be the next overarching big bad for this new generation of MCU movies.

Making an interpretation of Doom that works in film in general would be a feat. I love the character, but he does have certain design aspects that make him...a bit goofy for live adaptation. Confident that they would make it work though.

Click to shrink...

Doom would be perfect with the right approach in a post-Thanos world.

The whole point of Doom is he thinks the world (even the universe) is at risk from greater threats than humanity is capable of dealing with, that the world is disorganized, hateful, and divided to stand against them, and has the arrogance to assume that if he were to unite the world under his rule he could save all of humanity through his "benevolent" dictatorship.

... And, depending on the context of the story, he's entirely right. When he confronted the gods of Black Panther, they judged him as entirely righteous in his goals and ambitions. His methods are often extreme and villainous, but his ultimate aims are altruistic.

He's the hero of his own story.

In a post-Thanos world, he would see his need to unite and rule even more important than ever before.

 

[The Awesomest]

Anyone know what the trumpet piece Cap and Peggy were dancing to was?

Click to shrink...

Harry James - "It's been a long, long time"

Source: I play in a 1930s-1940s style big band and was hyped to hear this song! Our longtime lead trumpet player was basically the second coming of Harry James.

 

[PandaShake]

Mom has only one thing in her mind. Is fat Thor Chris real body?

 

[Deleted member 7051]

I love the character, but he does have certain design aspects that make him...a bit goofy for live adaptation.

Click to shrink...

Did you miss the purple giant with a nutsack for a chin?

 

[adj_noun]

We live in an age where audiences widely accept a cartoon space raccoon as a major chaarcter.

We can have a comics accurate Doom.

 

[roflwaffles]

Doom would be perfect with the right approach in a post-Thanos world.

The whole point of Doom is he thinks the world (even the universe) is at risk from greater threats than humanity is capable of dealing with, that the world is disorganized, hateful, and divided to stand against them, and has the arrogance to assume that if he were to unite the world under his rule he could save all of humanity through his "benevolent" dictatorship.

... And, depending on the context of the story, he's entirely right. When he confronted the gods of Black Panther, they judged him as entirely righteous in his goals and ambitions. His methods are often extreme and villainous, but his ultimate aims are altruistic.

He's the hero of his own story.

In a post-Thanos world, he would see his need to unite and rule even more important than ever before.

Click to shrink...

Agreed, unfortunately they ruined my dream casting of him by getting Mikkelsen as that forgettable Dr Strange villain. I wonder how they would deal with the mask - it would be hard for the actor to emote unless they go an Ironman route and do a headshot view.

 

[Solo]

*snap*

 

[Sibersk Esto]

Agreed, unfortunately they ruined my dream casting of him by getting Mikkelsen as that forgettable Dr Strange villain. I wonder how they would deal with the mask - it would be hard for the actor to emote unless they go an Ironman route and do a headshot view.

Click to shrink...

Mikkelsen would've been a poor Doom. Being in a mask robs Mads of his power

 

[Garlador]

Agreed, unfortunately they ruined my dream casting of him by getting Mikkelsen as that forgettable Dr Strange villain. I wonder how they would deal with the mask - it would be hard for the actor to emote unless they go an Ironman route and do a headshot view.

Click to shrink...

They gotta do the mask.

It's not like they haven't entirely covered their actors up to be unrecognizable or hidden before. Even big actors like Brolin and Spader were just voice and motion capture and they were fine with it.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

Mikkelsen would've been a poor Doom. Being in a mask robs Mads of his power

Click to shrink...

It sure as hell didn't rob Willem Dafoe of his power

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

What do we think about Jason Isaacs for the new Magneto.

A Jewish actor would be cool I think.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

It sure as hell didn't rob Willem Dafoe of his power

Click to shrink...

If you're referring to Green goblin, the unmoving metal mask was and still is criticized for being too stiff for a great face actor like Dafoe

 

[LL_Decitrig]

What do we think about Jason Isaacs for the new Magneto.

A Jewish actor would be cool I think.

Click to shrink...

I think he's too old for the part and too young for his current origin story. They need to cast an actor who will be in his (or her) thirties in about five years time. The origin story will need to be tweaked or there will have to be some kind of framing device to explain Magneto's youthful appearance despite being a holocaust survivor.

 

[Trup1aya]

Ok, you're almost there. Now, in 2012A's past, 2012 Hulk was there. So, when 2012A goes into their past in 2012B, 2012 Hulk must be there. So, 2012B contains 2012 Hulk.

Obviously the 2012 Hulk that we saw wasn't in 2012B, so 2012 must be branched off again, so now there is a 2012' Hulk that ends up in 2012B, where soon after they arrive 2012A Hulk arrives.

Click to shrink...

Sigh.

There's only ever two Hulks in any given timeline. Let's just walk it through.

2012 Prime Hulk Is feral. He grows up, survives the snap, and becomes Smart Hulk. He then travels back in time to 2012A. He sees feral 2012A Hulk. He then gets the timestone then returns to Prime timeline.

2012A feral Hulk grows up, survives the snap in his universe. Becomes smart hulk. He then Travels back in time to 2012B. He sees feral 2012B Hulk, gets the timestone, then returns to 2012A. (He never sees 2012 prime hulk, because 2012 prime hulk never comes to 2012B)

2012B feral hulk grows up, survives the snap in his universe. Becomes smart hulk. He then travels back in time to 2012C. He encounters feral 2012C Hulk, gets the timestone, then returns to 2012B. (He never sees 2012 Hulk or 2012A Hulk, because those guys never come to 2012C.)

Rinse and repeat. There's no accumulation.

 

[roflwaffles]

Did you miss the purple giant with a nutsack for a chin?

Click to shrink...

They gotta do the mask.

It's not like they haven't entirely covered their actors up to be unrecognizable or hidden before. Even big actors like Brolin and Spader were just voice and motion capture and they were fine with it.

Click to shrink...

Yeah but Ultron and Thanos could both emote without something covering their face. That being said, Spider-Man and Black Panther workf. I'm sure Marvel will make it work, I'm just not sure what route they'd take, since Doom doesn't like showing his face in the comics.

 

[Pankratous]

Is Spider-Man physically stronger than Captain America and Bucky?

 

[Deleted member 7051]

Is Spider-Man physically stronger than Captain America and Bucky?

Click to shrink...

Substantially. He's actually closer to the Hulk in physical strength given how he was able to stop Cull Obsidian in his tracks and he didn't sound like he was struggling too much to do it.

 

[Garlador]

Is Spider-Man physically stronger than Captain America and Bucky?

Click to shrink...

 

[Sande]

Sigh.

There's only ever two Hulks in any given timeline. Let's just walk it through.

2012 Prime Hulk Is feral. He grows up, survives the snap, and becomes Smart Hulk. He then travels back in time to 2012A. He sees feral 2012A Hulk. He then gets the timestone then returns to Prime timeline.

2012A feral Hulk grows up, survives the snap in his universe. Becomes smart hulk. He then Travels back in time to 2012B. He sees feral 2012B Hulk, gets the timestone, then returns to 2012A. (He never sees 2012 prime hulk, because 2012 prime hulk never comes to 2012B)

Click to shrink...

Why would 2012B branch from 2012 rather than 2012A?

 

[ThisIsBlitz21]

Just came back from watching Endgame. Its not the best MCU movie (not even in the top three), but its still damn great, I really liked it.

Loved the endings for both Tony and Cap.

Unpopular opinion, but I would like the next avengers to be smaller in scale, and only have 6-7 avengers like the Avengers 1. And dont include guardians and captain marvel outside of cameos or something.

 

[Deleted member 13015]

Finally watched it.

What a perfect ending. Both Captain and Tony finally at peace, after all the bullshit they've been through.

I wish there was one more Hulk vs Thanos fight during the big epic battle, like a personal fight. I would of loved it and that Hulk is so pissed at what happened that he turns back into the barbaric, animal Hulk while kicking Thanos' ass.

 

[Trup1aya]

Why would 2012B branch from 2012 rather than 2012A?

Click to shrink...

It doesn't. 2012 B branches from 2012A.

That's what I said.

This is why there's no accumulation of timetravelers. Each time traveler is arriving at a different branch in relation to the one before him.

 

[Deleted member 1445]

It doesn't. 2012 B branches from 2012A.

That's what I said.

This is why there's no accumulation of timetravelers. Each time traveler is arriving at a different branch in relation to the one before him.

Click to shrink...

You're already there, but you're missing what I said, haha. 2012B branches from 2012A, which has future 2012 Hulk in it.

And you already got, that 2012 Hulk wouldn't be there, because he went to 2012A. SO, 2012 branches into another reality, creating 2012', where 2012 Hulk lands in 2012B instead of A.

 

[Solo]

I loved Endgame but time travel was a mistake.

 

[sn00zer]

Anyone else catch the Ratchet and Clank joke when Star accidentally calls Rocket Ratchet?

 

[sn00zer]

One thing I did like about Cap and Starks endings was Stark needed to do something completely selfless and Cap was given the opportunity to do something for himself.

 

[LinkStrikesBack]

1. Nick Fury deciding not to call up Captain Marvel once Thanos got multiple stones and when Thor and Hulk were out of commission

Click to shrink...

That one is only shown so late for dramatic effect. Even when Fury did use the pager, it took days or weeks for her to turnup, as per the CM end credits scene. The events of infinity war take a day or two at most, she simply wouldn't have arrived in time.

 

[Blader]

I loved Endgame but time travel was a mistake.

Click to shrink...

Time travel is cool. Online debates about time travel were the mistake.

 

[Trup1aya]

You're already there, but you're missing what I said, haha. 2012B branches from 2012A, which has future 2012 Hulk in it.

And you already got, that 2012 Hulk wouldn't be there, because he went to 2012A. SO, 2012 branches into another reality, creating 2012', where 2012 Hulk lands in 2012B instead of A.

Click to shrink...

No, the moment 2012A Hulk arrives in 2012B it creates a new fork in the road.

the main road would be 2012A (which would have 2012 Hulk show up)

the Branch road would 2012B (which would have 2012A Hulk show up INSTEAD of 2012 Hulk)

You are imagining that the Branch is occurring at after the timetravelers arrive. But it's occuring at the instant they arrive.

Your assumption doesn't work, because we know you can't change an individuals history. 2012 Hulk never ran into multiple timetravelers when he went back. That is set in stone. which means future iterations will never run into 2012 Hulk.

 

[Deleted member 1445]

No, the moment 2012A Hulk arrives in 2012B it creates a new fork in the road.

the main road would be 2012A (which would have 2012 Hulk show up)

the Branch road would 2012B (which would have 2012A Hulk show up INSTEAD of 2012 Hulk)

You are imagining that the Branch is occurring at after the timetravelers arrive. But it's occuring at the instant they arrive.

Click to shrink...

This only applies if 2012A Hulk goes back in time to before 2012 Hulk arrived, which is in no way a guarantee. They will choose to arrive earlier than the other sometime.

Arriving at the same time should be no different than if it were afterward, I don't see why that wouldn't happen, since that is what happened in reality 2012A.

But, even if its before, or at the exact same moment, Hulk 2012 arriving in the universe is a completely external factor. There isn't anything they can do to change that, so even if 2012A Hulk goes back in time to before 2012 Hulk arrived, 2012' Hulk would still arrive, otherwise it wouldn't be an actual copy of 2012A.