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Avengers: Endgame |Spoiler OT2| Changing the past doesn't change the future

Oct 25, 2017
8,101
#1
|O P E N| |S P O I L E R S|



|O P E N| |S P O I L E R S|

Directed by Joe and Anthony Russo
Written by Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely
Produced by Kevin Feige
Original Score by Alan Silvestri

|O P E N| |S P O I L E R S|

Robert Downey Jr. as Tony Stark/Iron Man
Chris Evans as Steve Rogers/Captain America
Chris Hemsworth as Thor
Scarlett Johansson as Natasha Romanoff/Black Widow
Mark Ruffalo as Bruce Banner/Hulk
Jeremy Renner as Clint Barton/Hawkeye
Brie Larson as Carol Danvers/Captain Marvel
Don Cheadle as James Rhodes/War Machine
Anthony Mackie as Sam Wilson/Falcon
Sebastian Stan as Bucky Barnes/Winter Soldier
Elizabeth Olsen as Wanda Maximoff/Scarlet Witch
Paul Bettany as The Vision
Benedict Cumberbatch as Doctor Stephen Strange
Benedict Wong as Wong
Paul Rudd as Scott Lang/Ant-Man
Evangeline Lily as Hope Van Dyne/The Wasp
Tom Holland as Peter Parker/Spider-Man
Gwyneth Paltrow as Pepper Potts/Rescue
John Favreau as Happy Hogan
Chadwick Boseman as T’Challa/Black Panther
Danai Gurira as Okoye
Letitia Wright as Shuri
Winston Duke as M’Baku
Tessa Thompson as Brunhilde/Valkyrie
Tom Hiddleston as Loki
Chris Pratt as Peter Quill/Star-Lord
Zoe Saldana as Gamora
Dave Bautista as Drax
Bradley Cooper as Rocket
Vin Diesel as Groot
Pom Klementieff as Mantis
Karen Gillan as Nebula
Frank Grillo as Brock Rumlow/Crossbones
Josh Brolin as Thanos

|O P E N| |S P O I L E R S|



|O P E N| |S P O I L E R S|



NO SPOILERS THREAD IS THIS WAY
NO SPOILERS THREAD IS THIS WAY
NO SPOILERS THREAD IS THIS WAY
 

Hobbes

Freelance Games Journalist
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,062
United States
#2
Captain Marvel with short hair was an incredilbe and welcomed surprise.

Also hope to see a Rescue movie with gwyneth paltrow.

Cap wielding Mjonir was honestly the sexiest scene in this movie.
 

less

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,999
#4
"I love you three thousand" was so adorable and sad. :(

Still not sure if I like this more than Spider-verse but other than that film it is easily my favorite comic book film.
 
Dec 16, 2018
170
#9
Couldn't they bring back say Black Widow the same way they brought back Gamora? Just snatch an alt timeline Black Widow and Hulk is happy again? Pim particle time machine opens up a lot of possibilities.
 
Oct 25, 2017
308
Nashville, TN
#11
Saw it a second time earlier this week. Now my dad is coming to town and he hasn't either... Do I go for 3? I'm throwing a lot of cash down but man the feels of this damn movie.
 
OP
OP
The Kree
Oct 25, 2017
8,101
#12
Couldn't they bring back say Black Widow the same way they brought back Gamora? Just snatch an alt timeline Black Widow and Hulk is happy again? Pim particle time machine opens up a lot of possibilities.
What you're describing is kidnapping.
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,221
#14
Couldn't they bring back say Black Widow the same way they brought back Gamora? Just snatch an alt timeline Black Widow and Hulk is happy again? Pim particle time machine opens up a lot of possibilities.
They could, but that would be immoral, as well as disrespectful to the Black Widow that died for them. Gamora's situation was a complete accident as opposed to someone specifically attempting to bring her back, so that's fine.
 
Oct 27, 2017
138
#17
I kind of wonder if they will use ant man's van to bring back cap at some point. That scene where Scott was jumping from young to old made me think it was done to leave the door open to making Rogers younger.
 
Dec 28, 2018
1,397
#20
I suspect/hope that the Loki we saw using the Tesseract to teleport will be the Loki on the Disney+ series.
 

Solo

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,988
#22
Captain Marvel with short hair was an incredilbe and welcomed surprise.

Also hope to see a Rescue movie with gwyneth paltrow.

Cap wielding Mjonir was honestly the sexiest scene in this movie.
Her short hair was laughable and tragic.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,094
Appalachia
#27
Been watching the entire MCU, like I've said in a few threads that I wanted to after seeing Endgame and finally realizing how character-driven everything is. Just started Phase 2 last night I think (Iron Man 3) and every movie so far has little bits and pieces that make bring back memories of this film. Even though I am not a fan of a lot of this franchise's creative decisions, I'm really glad I decided to do this and I'm more and more excited to see Endgame again with all this new knowledge!
 
Dec 16, 2018
170
#30
Why stop at Black Widow? Lots of people will die in other timelines. You see the problem here?
Exactly! Why stop a Black Widow! They built a time travel machine they can solve so many problems! They should use the time travel machine to go back to the past and not build a time travel machine so these obvious problems aren't a problem any more.
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,221
#33
I really hope he is the old bad Loki and "our" Loki is reborn.

Like in that Journey into Mystery storyline by Kieron Gillen.
Well he's the Loki from Avengers, so no Dark World/Ragnarok bonding took place

That said, I doubt he'll ever become a main villain again
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,780
Earth 616
#34
I don't know how I feel about the title. Scratch that, I do know, I hate it. There's a lot of people posting here that don't like spoilers. Why to use this quote in the title of the thread? Wait at least one more week for that.
 
OP
OP
The Kree
Oct 25, 2017
8,101
#35
Exactly! Why stop a Black Widow! They built a time travel machine they can solve so many problems! They should use the time travel machine to go back to the past and not build a time travel machine so these obvious problems aren't a problem any more.
I think maybe it's better to not do any more time travel than it is to assume you'll always be doing it responsibly. Even Avengers make mistakes.
 
Oct 25, 2017
365
#36
Just got back from finally getting to see this. Sold out show at Paccar Imax in Seattle. Just incredible. My wife and I threw a huge Derby party yesterday and she promised me she was going to sleep through it. She didn't nod off once and cried multiple times. Testament to the pacing and engagement. It was better than I could have ever hoped/expected. Kudos to all involved.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,031
#37
I wonder if they just promise to never use the Time Machine again after this film. Because a lot of messed up stuff could be done. I guess Hank Pym is really going to be protective of them now. I wonder if Steve returned the vials to 1970.

All the usual comic book sites are certain we will see Kang the Conqueror now.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,375
#38
First hour was good, second hour was fun, third hour bore me to tears.
While I wouldn't say the third bore me, it was my least favorite. I was hoping after the start that Thanos was truly done and the rest of the movie would go from there instead of finding a way to bring him back in.

I mean while I did enjoy the craziness of Nebula having the best neural network in the universe, it would have been more interesting to me if the movie had ended with the Avengers undoing what Thanos did, but never actually beating him. The final fight was fantastic comic book porn (especially with the portals thing), but giant CG battle finales are kinda tiring these days, especially since Infinity Wars already had one. Captain Marvel's arrival was damn awesome though.

My bit of fridge horror after this movie was "If you think losing half your population in an instant is bad, see what happens when you suddenly double it", pretty much the minute Stark snapped. There's going to be one hell of a horrifying die off across the universe unless a lot of planets have some insane food stores. That's before getting into the implications of people who created a power vacuum when they poofed suddenly coming back and all the mess five years of people taking each others' property leaves when everyone shows up again.

Still annoyed about Black Widow's non-funeral.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,669
#39
So, does Banner/Hulk have sex with normal human ladies now? He's in control now and of normal human intelligence. Be weird if he adopted the Hulk physique and just became celibate.


Yes, we've all seen the gif.
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,221
#42
While I wouldn't say the third bore me, it was my least favorite. I was hoping after the start that Thanos was truly done and the rest of the movie would go from there instead of finding a way to bring him back in.

I mean while I did enjoy the craziness of Nebula having the best neural network in the universe, it would have been more interesting to me if the movie had ended with the Avengers undoing what Thanos did, but never actually beating him. The final fight was fantastic comic book porn (especially with the portals thing), but giant CG battle finales are kinda tiring these days, especially since Infinity Wars already had one. Captain Marvel's arrival was damn awesome though.
You can't bring everyone back, and not give them a big battle to participate in to close out the saga. I mean you can, but well, that'd be boring, and would feel like subverting expecations for the sake of it really.

That the movie did that, while also using past Thanos to expose his savior complex for the sham it is was some good stuff.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,123
#43
But he doesn't have one anymore, no? My understanding is that there is only a single timeline, as convoluted as it may be.
There are multiple. The one victory we know he got was undone, but there's multiple new timelines created where he's still a threat. They killed 2 Thanoses (Thani?) but created at least 4 or 5 more and did nothing to stop them.
 
#47
He got his victory. He wanted a second one.
Well really he knows he won but that there were those who sought to undo what he did, or would do, so he decided that the Snap just wasn't enough - he was going to break everything down and rebuild a new universe where, essentially, everyone he allowed to live in it would worship him for the gift he gave them because they'd never know what he took from them.

Which actually goes back to what Steve said in the first Avengers movie - "When I went under, the world was at war. I wake up, they say we won. They didn't say what we lost." - and perfectly summarises why the Avengers and Thanos would never be able to end this any other way than one side being totally destroyed by the other.
 
Oct 28, 2017
3,449
#48
There are multiple. The one victory we know he got was undone, but there's multiple new timelines created where he's still a threat. They killed 2 Thanoses (Thani?) but created at least 4 or 5 more and did nothing to stop them.
I thought that by returning the stones they would avoid creating new timelines.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,123
#49
I thought that by returning the stones they would avoid creating new timelines.
This is why The Ancient One's explanation in the movie sucks. It makes it sound that way, but there's basically no way it could work like that. She really just means that her timeline is ruined if the stones are removed.

Take the Cap vs Cap fight for example. There's basically 3 ways it can go: Cap had always fought himself (he hadn't), he would suddenly gain the memory of doing so as reality adjusts to changes (he doesn't) or it's another timeline.