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Avengers: Endgame |Spoiler OT2| Changing the past doesn't change the future
- Thread starter Deleted member 1248
- Start date
I'm not gonna say that Depressed Fat Thor is what I expected and even now I still don't know if it's what I wanted, but it's kind of amazing how they strike that perfect balance of him being funny and sad at the same time.
The way banner says the op title line is so weird. I almost want to see some parody video where someone is unintelligibly saying that line while mocking/exaggerating his tone.
Hey folks, lots of Endgame merchandise is being revealed, and I'm a bit puzzled.
Was Rhodes rocking a giant Iron Patriot armor at the final battle, or a giant War Machine armor? Most merchandise is rollling with Iron Patriot, although there was one Marvel Legends War Machine figure of the same suit.
If it's Iron Patriot, I must admit I didn't notice. Lighting was so dark in that fight.
Was Rhodes rocking a giant Iron Patriot armor at the final battle, or a giant War Machine armor? Most merchandise is rollling with Iron Patriot, although there was one Marvel Legends War Machine figure of the same suit.
If it's Iron Patriot, I must admit I didn't notice. Lighting was so dark in that fight.
I honestly have no idea what the colors of the suit were, but I believe merchandise often get manufactured from concept and production art before the film is finalized.
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Rhodes had some kind of War Machine variation that I imagine might be confused with the Patriot armor. I distinctly remember a dark blue/red coloration both times I saw the movie, but he wasn't really visible much during the final battle from my recollection so we didn't really get a good look at his suit in proper lighting.
EDIT: Found a high-res image.
Makes sense. Just kinda blew my mind seeing all the Iron Patriot stuff. I recall some reddish looking detail on the suit in the movie, but I totally missed the blue.
Yeah it´s blue and red, but the colors on the climax are mudded
He definitely had to switch armors for the final fight as the one he was wearing prior was left behind when they escaped the wreckage of the compound. I didn't pick up on the second armor being Iron Patriot-colored until seeing the scene again in TV commercials afterward.
So I just seent this and it was pretty good. I prefer Infinity War as a standalone film, but of course Endgame had a lot more heavy lifting to do, and the Russos handled it magnificently.
Are there any post highlights from this or from OT1 I should read? I can't read dozens of pages, or however many total, but I would like to catch up a little before repeating questions that have undoubtedly been asked, e.g. uhhhhh so where are the Stones nowadays if 2012 Thanos was dusted before he had a chance to acquire and destroy them?
Some general observations:
1. I'm not a comic book geek, but I hang around the periphery, and from what I can tell, discussing "power levels" and who would beat whom is kind of a genre mainstay. So I do wish the MCU was a little more consistent with this, as it would be fun to discuss. As it is now, the plot really seems to dictate how powerful the characters are at that specific moment, and I understand films have to make certain compromises.
2. One of my favorite aspect of superhero movies is how important it is to keep your secret identity. The constant dramatic tension that provides really made me feel, at least as a kid, the emotional cost of being a superhero, and how mentally taxing that must be. It's wild that the MCU, over 10+ years and 22+ films has almost not used or relied on this device at all. It was used a little bit in Homecoming (haven't seen Far From Home), but compared to how central that idea is to Spider-Man comics, it barely registers: the drama comes from many other sources. It's neither good nor bad, just different, and really interesting considering it's a comic book staple. Maybe it is good, though, since it's a sign of adaptation and changing with the times.
Anyway, props to Feige and team for what has to be a historically successful 10 year run in any business. One for the books, for sure.
Are there any post highlights from this or from OT1 I should read? I can't read dozens of pages, or however many total, but I would like to catch up a little before repeating questions that have undoubtedly been asked, e.g. uhhhhh so where are the Stones nowadays if 2012 Thanos was dusted before he had a chance to acquire and destroy them?
Some general observations:
1. I'm not a comic book geek, but I hang around the periphery, and from what I can tell, discussing "power levels" and who would beat whom is kind of a genre mainstay. So I do wish the MCU was a little more consistent with this, as it would be fun to discuss. As it is now, the plot really seems to dictate how powerful the characters are at that specific moment, and I understand films have to make certain compromises.
2. One of my favorite aspect of superhero movies is how important it is to keep your secret identity. The constant dramatic tension that provides really made me feel, at least as a kid, the emotional cost of being a superhero, and how mentally taxing that must be. It's wild that the MCU, over 10+ years and 22+ films has almost not used or relied on this device at all. It was used a little bit in Homecoming (haven't seen Far From Home), but compared to how central that idea is to Spider-Man comics, it barely registers: the drama comes from many other sources. It's neither good nor bad, just different, and really interesting considering it's a comic book staple. Maybe it is good, though, since it's a sign of adaptation and changing with the times.
Anyway, props to Feige and team for what has to be a historically successful 10 year run in any business. One for the books, for sure.
He didn't get dusted... not in this ("main") timeline. Only the Thanos from the "other" timeline got dusted. Everything in our heroe's past happened as it did. Can't change the past to create a new future (in "your" timeline) in this MCU time travel version.
If that were true, then the Doctor Strange we see at the end would never get the Time Stone, since it presumably went back to the Ancient One who will give it to younger Strange who would then give it to Thanos to destroy. Which I guess is possible, but I can't imagine the writers want to do that, would they?
What makes you think Dr. Strange has the time stone at the end?
No, that's exactly what happened. The stones grabbed in the time heist were taken back to the timelines they came from while the stones from the main timeline stay atomized. Strange doesn't have the Time Stone anymore.
I don't think he has it, which would mean that we have a Time Stone-less Dr. Strange, which is kinda weird to consider. I just think of him protecting the Time Stone as such an important part of his being. But I'm guessing since his next movie has to do with the multi-verse that he'll get it back somehow.
Probably not the first to think this, but after seeing Far From Home, I'm convinced that...
Natasha in End Game is a Skrull. With a prequel for Black Widow coming up, it would be the first time of this nature that we went backwards in the continuity for a character. I suspect we will discover in that movie that she is either killed and replaced or jailed somewhere and replaced. Or maybe she's always been a Skrull.
There's also the curious case of the sandwich theory going around about Nick Fury. Fun fact: Natasha cuts her peanut butter sandwich diagnally in the first act of the film. The sandwich even gets focus a second time when Lang shows up at Avengers HQ. Coincidence?
Either way, I think Black Widow (the film) will provide a different perspective on her death in End Game. I wouldn't be surprised to see the real Nat be alive elsewhere. It might be a cop out for her death, but that's the point if they're going to really play up the Skrulls in Phase 4.
There's also the curious case of the sandwich theory going around about Nick Fury. Fun fact: Natasha cuts her peanut butter sandwich diagnally in the first act of the film. The sandwich even gets focus a second time when Lang shows up at Avengers HQ. Coincidence?
Either way, I think Black Widow (the film) will provide a different perspective on her death in End Game. I wouldn't be surprised to see the real Nat be alive elsewhere. It might be a cop out for her death, but that's the point if they're going to really play up the Skrulls in Phase 4.
I agree with your appreciation for the secret identity trope as well...I view it's status in the MCU as largely a concession to the early general viewers with the whole suspension of disbelief thing, since it is admittedly a difficult trope to maintain realistically. I mean, they started with Iron Man, and the whole idea of brilliant tech-genius and weapons engineer Tony Stark never being around the same time his "bodygaurd" was around was probably a bridge too far for general audiences at the time to take. That being said, Far For Home does make Peter's protecting his identity a main plot thread
I feel like Red Skull would've noticed that.
That was the better half.
After revealing how completely OP the time stone is, I don't see them getting it back for DS2
Thanos dusted 50% of the universe and then broke the Stones. That happened.
The original Time Heist plan was to go back in time and steal Stones from the past so that they have Stones again, and then use the Stones to restore the dusted. Banner/Stark's math said that this would be a victimless crime.
The Ancient One objected to that plan, because it's not victimless. Alternate timelines would be created. Banner/Stark would be robbing from one timeline just to save their own. The other timelines still need their Stones, like alternate Doctor Strange still needs the Time Stone to stop Dormamu. If Banner takes the Time Stone (not like he could, the Ancient One had him outclassed), then Dormamu destroys Earth/the universe in the alternate timeline.
The compromise they reached is "borrowing". If the Avengers "borrow" the Stones and use them to restore the dusted, and then return the Stones to the past, then the lost 50% of the universe can be saved while nobody gets robbed. And when those alternate timelines reach their Endgames, then they can borrow Stones from the past too. It's all stable, so long as the Avengers accept that they don't really have Stones anymore, and they cannot keep them, they have to return them.
But things got messy. Loki escaped in one timeline. Thanos disappeared in another (he crossed over to the timeline we saw and got himself killed). With no more Thanos in his previous timeline, that means that a timeline (at least one) exists where the Stones were not collected, 50% of the universe wasn't destroyed, and the Stones were not destroyed.
Doctor Strange could presumably steal a Time Stone from the Doctor Strange of that alternate timeline, but that would be stealing, and the other Doctor Strange might need the Stone as much as our Doctor Strange does. But I suppose that's something that the next movie could deal with, if it wanted to.
I took her to imply that the alternate realities would only exist when the Stones leave that reality, as she diverted one of the stones in her AR demo and showed how it split into a tributary. When Banner pushed the Stone back and re-connected the two "rivers," promising he would return the Stone, she seemed to agree it would work, but that she couldn't take that chance (until Banner brought up Strange, of course).
So, I don't know, at least according to her demo, it seemed like the multiple realities would merge into one if the Stones are returned, but maybe she was wrong and/or misleading.
I think apart from undercutting that scene, it still doesn't really make sense or serve much of a purpose for the film makers. Why would an imposter react the way she did to the events? I suppose that it is still arguable but also, wasn't it shown in Captain Marvel that they revert when killed? I'm pretty sure the Skrull Coulson changed back when he was killed in the car crash with Nick Fury. So she would have changed back when she hit the floor.
Anyway, if they want to bring her back outside of side-stories / prequels they have now established a way to do it as they have a time machine still at the end of the movie and brought back Gamora from the past. Hank Pym is alive again and they don't seem worried about needing particles anymore as Cap is making several jumps. They could bring a Natasha, young Cap or even Tony from any point they fancy, albeit altering that universes timeline for the sake of ours. I think more likely Scarlett Johansson is just done with playing the character and the solo movie maybe just potentially sets up someone else who can take the mantel as Cap and Hawkeye are passing it on too.
This would be horrible. Undercutting such a big part of why Endgame was so good:
all the scenes with Natasha, especially her in Avengers HQ after the timeskip and her self sacrifice. Imagine if that was a Skrull. That doesn't make any sense from a motivation standpoint, but it would also just undercut such an important part of Endgame.
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Its just more likely that black widow is just a codename kind of like how many have theorized that james bond is a code name.
It should be noted that Thanos states he reduced the stones to atoms, so their energy should still exist within the universe. Whether a being of sufficient power could remake the stones is a question Marvel could always return to.
Got this on Amazon streaming. The last 30 mins are so good.
Marvel is so good at distraction. We got Hulk getting ready to do the snap. Then we got Nebula bringing in Thanos. After that we see the snap, Ant Man walking to the balcony, and Hawkeye receiving a phone call.....I already forgot about Thanos.
Marvel is so good at distraction. We got Hulk getting ready to do the snap. Then we got Nebula bringing in Thanos. After that we see the snap, Ant Man walking to the balcony, and Hawkeye receiving a phone call.....I already forgot about Thanos.
Just saw this first time with GF past weekend. Idk, I prefer IW more. IW just felt bigger In scale to me and the stakes seemed higher. Here the journey felt smaller and I never got sense of mixed emotions, just full of optimism which I guess makes sense for last team up movie.
Thanks also felt useless and we didn't get character exploration as IW. I guess the action was ok, it didn't feel as epic though. I think the things I enjoyed was characters being different like Thor and Hulk. The whole constantly picking on Ant-man felt weird. My GF teared up on IM getting killed tho. She liked the Captain Marvel character as it's our first time seeing her on screen.
Idk, I'm not upset I didn't see it in theaters. Felt perfect for a streaming movie. I don't know if I can watch this one over again but I have seen IW multiple times.
Thanks also felt useless and we didn't get character exploration as IW. I guess the action was ok, it didn't feel as epic though. I think the things I enjoyed was characters being different like Thor and Hulk. The whole constantly picking on Ant-man felt weird. My GF teared up on IM getting killed tho. She liked the Captain Marvel character as it's our first time seeing her on screen.
Idk, I'm not upset I didn't see it in theaters. Felt perfect for a streaming movie. I don't know if I can watch this one over again but I have seen IW multiple times.
There are always infinite number of time lines, hence the 1 in 14 million chance. It is just that if the stones were to be removed permanently from one, it will have major repercussions.
With the time stone gone, I think Dr Stranger's movie might be him trying to seek more power to protect Earth, putting him right opposite Mordo's motives.
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One such example: If Steve doesn't return the time stone to Ancient One, Dormammu gets to eat the earth.
And so I have finally seen Endgame.
Never in my life have I felt like I did when Cap lifted the hammer. Never in my life have I felt like I did when Sam said "on your left". The return of all those heroes felt sufficiently epic and when Cap said "it" nearly passed out from excitement!!! I was everything I wished it would be.
Fantastic!!!
Just one question. Did the OG Snap create the multiverse?
Never in my life have I felt like I did when Cap lifted the hammer. Never in my life have I felt like I did when Sam said "on your left". The return of all those heroes felt sufficiently epic and when Cap said "it" nearly passed out from excitement!!! I was everything I wished it would be.
Fantastic!!!
Just one question. Did the OG Snap create the multiverse?
I didnt think so but when Rocket said Earth was the center of cosmic energy I thought that had a meaning outside of the narrative.
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Rocket did not say that.
Nebula said Vormir was a dominion of Death and the center of celestial existence - which means like the center of the universe or something.
"When Thanos snapped his fingers, Earth became ground zero for a power surge of ridiculously cosmic proportions no one has ever seen anything like it."
I meant this but I guess that's not the same thing.
I think Dormammu can do that in the main timeline now that the time stone is destroyed, right?
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He's gotta get someone to disarm the three sanctums that form the magic shield around the earth first.