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Version 3.0

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,183
This thread. Geez. So serious, and so negative.

MCU: Our heroes prevailed against 14 million-to-1 odds!
Era: Our "heroes" only saved 1 out of 14 million realities.
 

Ragnorok64

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
2,955
Why are you trying to argue? Look at what we're discussing. I don't care. I was asking a simple question.
You stated that there were people dead or suffering in other timelines due to the interference in Endgame. There is nothing in this movie to base that statement on. Nothing supports that, and when pressed you've provided zero evidence to backup that claim. If you are going to state that
the MCU we know and love had a happy ending, but there are so many people dead or suffering in other timelines and universes, much of that due to the direct interference in Endgame.
then provide the receipts that what you said even happened in the first place.
 

Halbrand

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,616
It just occurred to me now that Dr Strange gave up the time stone to Thanos because, in seeing the 1 in 14 million chance to defeat Thanos, knew Tony had to live until the end, so he had to give up the stone to spare Tony's life. Thanos was going to kill him in Infinity War until Strange gave up the stone. So he saved his life for the express purpose of him being able to lay it down 5 years later to defeat Thanos in Endgame.
Yup, and he gave him the time stone knowing things would be bad for five years.
 
OP
OP
Oct 25, 2017
12,018
Steve said to Natasha that he saw whales swimming in water that used to be dirtier and filled with boats.

Nobody wants to talk about that though.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,362
FWIW it worked for me as well.
I wouldn't have mind if they could come up with something that felt a bit more tidy, but I don't think that I would have liked an exposition dump scene where the would be plot holes are "explained" in great sci-fi mumbo jumbo detail.

The thing is, the logic they actually ran with its air tight... The problem is, they didn't present it will enough to prevent an improper interpretation from gaining popularity.

I don't even think they needed a huge info dump. Just a better diagram during TAOS speech- highlighting the fact that multiple realities co-exist rather than giving anyone that returning stones leads to a single reality (even though the dialog doesn't support this theory).
 
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Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
The thing is, the logic they actually ran with its air tight... The problem is, they didn't present it will enough to prevent an improper interpretation from gaining popularity.

I don't even think they needed a huge info dump. Just a better diagram during TAOS speech- highlighting the fact that multiple realities co-exist rather than the idea that returning stones leads to a single reality.
Well, if I ever watch the film again (and chances are that I will, probably on a flight) I will try to pay closer attention, but it felt kinda sloppy on first viewing to me.
And at least for me, in a movie like this, how it feels is more important than if it stands to close scrutiny in repeated, freeze frame viewing.
But again, I wasn't too bothered by any of that, though that was probably 80% because I like Tilda Swinton, and while I get that her casting is kinda problematic, her acting is so fucking weird in those films that I always enjoyed her scenes.
 

Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,129
Chile
Steve said to Natasha that he saw whales swimming in water that used to be dirtier and filled with boats.

Nobody wants to talk about that though.

Well if politicians and capitalists won't help with climate change, then we know what to do.

The hardest decisions require the strongest will.

Marvel Future Fight is by far the best. Once you get used to the mobile game nature of it, it's arguably the best Marvel game period when it comes to fanservice/content.

Thank you a lot!
 
A good post that isn't about time travel

FFNB

Associate Game Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,119
Los Angeles, CA
I think the biggest unsung thing the writers and actors of Endgame executed was making these larger than life heroes human.

Tony: being emaciated and at death's door at the start of the film. His amazing reunion with Cap and the surviving Avengers when he confronts Steve. His relationship with his daughter. Even little details like him washing dishes at his cabin.

Natasha: Her desperation to do something, anything, to make a positive difference in the world. The peanut butter sandwich scene is so incredibly human. Like, "superheroes eat PBJ? So do I!" Her friendship with Clint and how deep it is (and pays off so much over the course of these movies). Her inability to move on after their second defeat (Thanos got the last laugh even though he loses his head).

Clint: His despair and survivors guilt and anger after losing his entire family. I mean, it wasn't just his wife that was dusted, but his 3 children as well. How can that not break a person? I totally understood his arc in this film. And then he loses Natasha, his dearest friend, when victory still wasn't assured at that point in the film. His scene at the beginning with his daughter was also touching and human. No superheroics, just a man having a picnic with his family and joking with his daughter.

Thor: We've seen this guy as a cocky, arrogant prince, and a powerful thunder god, but his depression and sorrow and regret, and guilt was some of the strongest emotional throughline of the movie. Hemsworth killed it. And yeah, fat Thor had moments played up for laughs, but his mental and emotional state was so, so believable and human. I never felt the humor undercut that in any way. His scene with Rocket, and with his mom are two of the highlights of the film.

Steve: Even though they lost. Even though the world is gone to shit, Steve is in a support group with regular, non-super powered people trying to help them move on and find hope, even when he doesn't feel it himself. Even when he's incapable of moving on. The line about how he went into the ice after meeting the love of his life makes that final scene with Peggy that much more beautiful to me. The PBJ scene with Nat and the mention of him coming to do his laundry is another small moment that grounds all of these characters and makes them feel human.

I love the first hour of Endgame because the tone it sets wouldn't be out of place in a drama about people that don't run around in tights and suits of armor for a living. Just really well done stuff. I love little details that make characters feel real, and the cast and crew of this movie delivered that, while also delivering an insanely spectacular and over the top final act.

It's such a great compliment to Infinity War, and a wonderful bookend to the 22 movies that came before it. It's not a flawless film, but it is an impressively made film. I can't wait to own it.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,362
Well, if I ever watch the film again (and chances are that I will, probably on a flight) I will try to pay closer attention, but it felt kinda sloppy on first viewing to me.
And at least for me, in a movie like this, how it feels is more important than if it stands to close scrutiny in repeated, freeze frame viewing.
But again, I wasn't too bothered by any of that, though that was probably 80% because I like Tilda Swinton, and while I get that her casting is kinda problematic, her acting is so fucking weird in those films that I always enjoyed her scenes.

The thing is, a franchise as big as this one is bound to be heavily scrutinized.

I feel like some slightly better presentation in a single scene could have made a world of difference.

Its especially important because this movie will inevitably serve as a springboard into the next phase of the MCU- which will apparently be dealing with the multiverse.
 
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Oct 28, 2017
13,691
I think the biggest unsung thing the writers and actors of Endgame executed was making these larger than life heroes human.

Tony: being emaciated and at death's door at the start of the film. His amazing reunion with Cap and the surviving Avengers when he confronts Steve. His relationship with his daughter. Even little details like him washing dishes at his cabin.

Natasha: Her desperation to do something, anything, to make a positive difference in the world. The peanut butter sandwich scene is so incredibly human. Like, "superheroes eat PBJ? So do I!" Her friendship with Clint and how deep it is (and pays off so much over the course of these movies). Her inability to move on after their second defeat (Thanos got the last laugh even though he loses his head).

Clint: His despair and survivors guilt and anger after losing his entire family. I mean, it wasn't just his wife that was dusted, but his 3 children as well. How can that not break a person? I totally understood his arc in this film. And then he loses Natasha, his dearest friend, when victory still wasn't assured at that point in the film. His scene at the beginning with his daughter was also touching and human. No superheroics, just a man having a picnic with his family and joking with his daughter.

Thor: We've seen this guy as a cocky, arrogant prince, and a powerful thunder god, but his depression and sorrow and regret, and guilt was some of the strongest emotional throughline of the movie. Hemsworth killed it. And yeah, fat Thor had moments played up for laughs, but his mental and emotional state was so, so believable and human. I never felt the humor undercut that in any way. His scene with Rocket, and with his mom are two of the highlights of the film.

Steve: Even though they lost. Even though the world is gone to shit, Steve is in a support group with regular, non-super powered people trying to help them move on and find hope, even when he doesn't feel it himself. Even when he's incapable of moving on. The line about how he went into the ice after meeting the love of his life makes that final scene with Peggy that much more beautiful to me. The PBJ scene with Nat and the mention of him coming to do his laundry is another small moment that grounds all of these characters and makes them feel human.

I love the first hour of Endgame because the tone it sets wouldn't be out of place in a drama about people that don't run around in tights and suits of armor for a living. Just really well done stuff. I love little details that make characters feel real, and the cast and crew of this movie delivered that, while also delivering an insanely spectacular and over the top final act.

It's such a great compliment to Infinity War, and a wonderful bookend to the 22 movies that came before it. It's not a flawless film, but it is an impressively made film. I can't wait to own it.

Great post
 

Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,129
Chile
I think the biggest unsung thing the writers and actors of Endgame executed was making these larger than life heroes human.

Tony: being emaciated and at death's door at the start of the film. His amazing reunion with Cap and the surviving Avengers when he confronts Steve. His relationship with his daughter. Even little details like him washing dishes at his cabin.

Natasha: Her desperation to do something, anything, to make a positive difference in the world. The peanut butter sandwich scene is so incredibly human. Like, "superheroes eat PBJ? So do I!" Her friendship with Clint and how deep it is (and pays off so much over the course of these movies). Her inability to move on after their second defeat (Thanos got the last laugh even though he loses his head).

Clint: His despair and survivors guilt and anger after losing his entire family. I mean, it wasn't just his wife that was dusted, but his 3 children as well. How can that not break a person? I totally understood his arc in this film. And then he loses Natasha, his dearest friend, when victory still wasn't assured at that point in the film. His scene at the beginning with his daughter was also touching and human. No superheroics, just a man having a picnic with his family and joking with his daughter.

Thor: We've seen this guy as a cocky, arrogant prince, and a powerful thunder god, but his depression and sorrow and regret, and guilt was some of the strongest emotional throughline of the movie. Hemsworth killed it. And yeah, fat Thor had moments played up for laughs, but his mental and emotional state was so, so believable and human. I never felt the humor undercut that in any way. His scene with Rocket, and with his mom are two of the highlights of the film.

Steve: Even though they lost. Even though the world is gone to shit, Steve is in a support group with regular, non-super powered people trying to help them move on and find hope, even when he doesn't feel it himself. Even when he's incapable of moving on. The line about how he went into the ice after meeting the love of his life makes that final scene with Peggy that much more beautiful to me. The PBJ scene with Nat and the mention of him coming to do his laundry is another small moment that grounds all of these characters and makes them feel human.

I love the first hour of Endgame because the tone it sets wouldn't be out of place in a drama about people that don't run around in tights and suits of armor for a living. Just really well done stuff. I love little details that make characters feel real, and the cast and crew of this movie delivered that, while also delivering an insanely spectacular and over the top final act.

It's such a great compliment to Infinity War, and a wonderful bookend to the 22 movies that came before it. It's not a flawless film, but it is an impressively made film. I can't wait to own it.

This should be threadmarked as a "why does a superhero movie about cliché time travel get so praised" answer.

Totally agree, specially with Thor. Yeah, there are moments where being fat is played for laughs (it is weird seing such a perfect body AND A FREAKING GOD like that), but over the course of the movie his mental state is so well played. That scene with his mom just got me and almost teared up. "Eat a salad", yeah, if my mom see me today for just 10 minutes, she would totally say that
 

FFNB

Associate Game Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,119
Los Angeles, CA
This should be threadmarked as a "why does a superhero movie about cliché time travel get so praised" answer.

Totally agree, specially with Thor. Yeah, there are moments where being fat is played for laughs (it is weird seing such a perfect body AND A FREAKING GOD like that), but over the course of the movie his mental state is so well played. That scene with his mom just got me and almost teared up. "Eat a salad", yeah, if my mom see me today for just 10 minutes, she would totally say that
[


Thanks guys! And yeah, there so many other little things that really sell how human these people are. I didn't even touch on the death of Tony, and Peter's desperate, "it's me, Mr. Stark, it's me, Peter," and Scott's expression when he hugs Cassie before saying, "you're so big." Rudd nailed that little bit of realization on Scott's face that he missed being a part of his little girl's life, especially after how charming their relationship was in Ant-Man and the Wasp. I was so sad for him at the end, when him, Hope, and Cassie were on the porch watching the fireworks. Thor's talk with his mom about failure and being who you're meant to be, even if it's not a king or a thunder god was great stuff.

And on a more personal note, Sam getting the shield and effectively becoming the new Captain America. His "I'll do my best," with the Cap Firsr Avengers theme playing gets me every time. As a black kid growing up loving comics, it always saddened me how few heroes looked like me, and I honestly didn't expect Hollywood to make Sam Cap. I thought it'd be Bucky, so that moment meant a lot to me.

I've seen this movie four times already, and I kind of want to see it a fifth before it hits Blu Ray.
 
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Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Thanks guys! And yeah, there so many other little things that really sell how human these people are. I didn't even touch on the death of Tony, and Peter's desperate, "it's me, Mr. Stark, it's me, Peter," and Scott's expression when he hugs Cassie before saying, "you're so big." Rudd nailed that little bit of realization on Scott's face that he missed being a part of his little girl's life, especially after how charming their relationship was in Ant-Man and the Wasp. I was so sad for him at the end, when him, Hope, and Cassie were on the porch watching the fireworks. Thor's talk with his mom about failure and being who you're meant to be, even if it's not a king or a thunder god was great stuff.

And on a more personal note, Sam getting the shield and effectively becoming the new Captain America. His "I'll do my best," with the Cap Firsr Avengers theme playing gets me every time. As a black kid growing up loving comics, it always saddened me how few heroes looked like me, and I honestly didn't expect Hollywood to make Sam Cap. I thought it'd be Bucky, so that moment meant a lot to me.

I've seen this movie four times already, and I kind of want to see it a fifth before it hits Blu Ray.

I don't think you've quoted the correct post of mine, hahah. Still, it prompted me to read your writeup and I agree with it 100%, so there's that; also kind of serendipitous considering I saw the movie today for the first time. :)

I really love the pacing and buildup of the movie. It starts in such a low key and personal way, has a minor mini-climax in the Thanos cabin fight, then goes back to low key and intimate to let the characters and the plot breathe. The middle slowly builds up as a heist movie into a bit of space opera, and the finale is downright explosive.
 

ken_matthews

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
838
I really didn't like that ending, I thought Captain America should have died instead. I didn't like Fat Thor either. I thought they didn't do service to the character and he became too much of a joke. Don't get me wrong, it was funny but it felt out of place. At the end of Infinity War he was powered up and actually living up to being the God of Thunder, but in this movie they threw that all a way for a shity character arc.

Still, I enjoyed the movie overall. I thought the beginning was great, especially the parts with Scott finding out what happen to the world and seeing his daughter. I really liked it up until the time heist started. It wasn't bad from that point on and the final battle was pretty fun to watch but I wish more of the movie dealt with the consequences and aftermath of the snap. To me, the beginning was the most compelling part of the movie.
 

Lotus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
105,853
At the end of Infinity War he was powered up and actually living up to being the God of Thunde

And then proceeded to fail massively at the end of the movie due to failing to stop the snap, and then successfully kills Thanos in EG, except it doesn't even matter anymore. His character arc as a result of those failures didn't come outta nowhere lol
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,055
Appalachia
I like that we've seen Thor go through a lot but it still feels like he's just starting his big character arc. Gotta go find his true place in all of this.

Watched The Dark World last night and for all its faults I like how Asgardians are portrayed in a Shakespearean, melodramatic way, and how a lot of the humour comes from how that's juxtaposed with the humans on Earth behaving as... well... we behave. I think that dynamic makes Thor's exploits outside of Asgard more comedic than when he's on his homeworld, and I hope we get to see more of him at home in the future (just executed with more care) to balance out the different tonalities.
 

xxracerxx

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
31,222
I didn't like Fat Thor either. I thought they didn't do service to the character and he became too much of a joke. Don't get me wrong, it was funny but it felt out of place. At the end of Infinity War he was powered up and actually living up to being the God of Thunder, but in this movie they threw that all a way for a shity character arc.
Depression takes a huge toll on people, even gods.
 

ken_matthews

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
838
And then proceeded to fail massively at the end of the movie due to failing to stop the snap, and then successfully kills Thanos in EG, except it doesn't even matter anymore. His character arc as a result of those failures didn't come outta nowhere lol

Well I'm not saying it came out of nowhere, I'm just saying I didnt't like the character Arc because he became a joke character.
 
Apr 17, 2019
1,381
Viridia
Yeah other than his first shirtless scene or when Tony snarks "Drifting left Lebowski" I don't think any of his other scenes were played up for laughs. Ok maybe him falling asleep during the briefing and waxing lyrical about Thor 2 events counts as a jokey scene but that doesn't have anything to do with him being fat.

He's already so obviously miserable but putting up a strong, joking and uncaring front when he first met with Rocket in IW ("What more have I got to lose?) and here after compounding his failures it's just taken to eleven.
 

Nightengale

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,708
Malaysia
http://collider.com/why-could-captain-america-hold-thors-hammer-in-avengers-endgame/#images

Anthony Russo said:
"In our heads he was able to wield it, and he didn't know that until that moment Ultron when he tried to pick it up. But Cap's sense of character and his sense of humility, sort of out of deference to Thor's ego, you know Cap in that moment realizing he can move the hammer decides not to."

Nightengale said:
The moment that made me think that Capt was always worthy even in AoU was when Thor said "I knew it!"

That was the only time that Thor ever saw Capt being tested - and it's not like Thor was deeply insightful on Capt's personal character journey from AoU till EG to see him change as someone unworthy to someone worthy.

Called it. Nice to know that the scene where Thor said "I knew it!" was meant to be an implication that Capt was always worthy even in AoU, but he chose not to lift it, but Thor was able to notice it already back then.
 

FaceHugger

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
13,949
USA
I saw this today. Loved it.

The opening with Clint was heartbreaking. In fact, the first act - excluding the execution of Thanos - was some of the best drama I've seen at the theater in a while. It wasn't just quality drama for a superhero or even plain-action film in general. That shit was dark, deep, and touching. The whimsical trip down memory lane during the time-diving second act had me feeling so sentimental. I was taken back to the days when I first saw the related moments, and it was nice how they paired up the characters given their past connections - that made for some great interactions.

The stuff they did with Thor and Hulk was hilarious. Every scene with Thor was gold.

I remember guessing that Cap would have to remain in the past as part of the way to defeat Thanos. I figured it would be the perfect out for Chris Evans from the franchise, as well as give a happy ending to one of the saddest backstories between the films and television. I much prefer him choosing to return to the past on his own after he must have felt that his work was done. What a beautiful ending for Chris Evans's Cap. Bring on Falcon Cap.

The void left by Tony Stark in the MCU felt like an insurmountable void, given how reliant they always are on his brain saving the day - until I remembered Suri and Wakanda exists. I think the world will be safe.

Shame we'll probably never see Natasha or Vision again.

Question: I can't remember, did Tony send the time stones back to their original times and locations when he snapped, or were they still on his glove? I was too busy crying to notice.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,620
I wonder if this the last we'll see of War Machine. Not really sure what they'd do with his character going forward, though they haven't done a whole hell of a lot for the 9 years he's been around. Funny to think that Cheadle's Rhodey predates almost every other Avenger.

Question: I can't remember, did Tony send the time stones back to their original times and locations when he snapped, or were they still on his glove? I was too busy crying to notice.
Steve takes them back through time at the end.
 

FaceHugger

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
13,949
USA
I wonder if this the last we'll see of War Machine. Not really sure what they'd do with his character going forward, though they haven't done a whole hell of a lot for the 9 years he's been around. Funny to think that Cheadle's Rhodey predates almost every other Avenger.


Steve takes them back through time at the end.

Oh yea, haha. Totally forgot, thanks. So I guess that forever takes them out of play moving forward.

Regarding War Machine, I think they'd still have Cheadle still show up if he's willing. You don't just dump an actor of that caliber because his main connection to the universe is now dead. At least I would think so.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,055
Appalachia

Pandora012

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,496
Just watched the movie today, and i thought it was way better than infinity war, which i admit bored me. I was legit surprised how much I enjoyed it. As i kept hearing it wasn't as good as infinity.
That said I do not understand the point of Cap Marvel in the movie. She legit does nothing. Sure she tows Tony back to earth, but like anyone could do that. It feels like her and her movie really didn't serve any type of purpose to Endgame. And honestly, that whole scene with all the women of Marvel annoyed me after thinking more about it. Because the way Marvel has been treating it's women has been less than ideal. Eyes on you Natasha....
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,800
Just saw it tonight.
It was enjoyable, probably about what I expected.
However it wasn't quite as good as I hoped it would be. It did what it had to do, and didn't screw it up. I wouldn't consider it the best MCU movie at all.

That being said, I am still really really happy that it didn't mess up. It feels like so many stories bungle the last part, and it sours the previous material. I don't feel that at all here. Sure it was a bit fanservicy, and sure I thought having alternate universe Thanos was a bit meh, but those are pretty minor. It was fun, and it didn't hurt my enjoyment of the previous movies at all.

Also Falcon being the new Cap is something I've wanted for a while, so it gets points for that.
 

FaceHugger

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
13,949
USA
Just watched the movie today, and i thought it was way better than infinity war, which i admit bored me. I was legit surprised how much I enjoyed it. As i kept hearing it wasn't as good as infinity.
That said I do not understand the point of Cap Marvel in the movie. She legit does nothing. Sure she tows Tony back to earth, but like anyone could do that. It feels like her and her movie really didn't serve any type of purpose to Endgame. And honestly, that whole scene with all the women of Marvel annoyed me after thinking more about it. Because the way Marvel has been treating it's women has been less than ideal. Eyes on you Natasha....

I don't think any characters aside from Natasha, Cap, and Stark were meant to be ultimately massively crucial to the plot. It makes sense Danvers would take a back seat and not be the deus ex machina because she hasn't been there for the entire ride. Though you have to admit (I think) that she did kind of save the day in a totally OK writing-wise way by obliterating that giant ship like a badass when it seemed all hope was lost.

Just saw it tonight.
It was enjoyable, probably about what I expected.
However it wasn't quite as good as I hoped it would be. It did what it had to do, and didn't screw it up. I wouldn't consider it the best MCU movie at all.

That being said, I am still really really happy that it didn't mess up. It feels like so many stories bungle the last part, and it sours the previous material. I don't feel that at all here. Sure it was a bit fanservicy, and sure I thought having alternate universe Thanos was a bit meh, but those are pretty minor. It was fun, and it didn't hurt my enjoyment of the previous movies at all.

Also Falcon being the new Cap is something I've wanted for a while, so it gets points for that.

It wasn't alternate version Thanos, though. Not to nitpick, but they explained how time travel works: everything that has happened will have always have happened, one is just creating a new future. By electing to have past Thanos show up in the present was kind of clever. Everything that happened up to that point had already happened, but now that they messed with the past 2014(?) Thanos now jumps into a future where he is dead. And they kill that fool again. Without them doing that I don't know what kind of antagonist they could have chosen beyond a man vs nature story. It also gave us a chance to see the Avengers truly beat him in his prime.
 
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Scrooge McDuck

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,038
I love the first hour of Endgame because the tone it sets wouldn't be out of place in a drama about people that don't run around in tights and suits of armor for a living. Just really well done stuff. I love little details that make characters feel real, and the cast and crew of this movie delivered that, while also delivering an insanely spectacular and over the top final act.

It's such a great compliment to Infinity War, and a wonderful bookend to the 22 movies that came before it. It's not a flawless film, but it is an impressively made film. I can't wait to own it.
I really agree with this. I'd like to add that when Bruce and Rocket went to fetch Thor, they didn't jump there or used one of their spaceships. Instead they went to this quite long sequence of hitchhiking behind a pickup truck through the countryside to New Asgard. I really loved that.
 

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,364
. I didn't like Fat Thor either. I thought they didn't do service to the character and he became too much of a joke. Don't get me wrong, it was funny but it felt out of place. At the end of Infinity War he was powered up and actually living up to being the God of Thunder, but in this movie they threw that all a way for a shity character arc.

Half the universe died because of his mistake. It wasn't supposed to be funny beyond the initial scene.
 

Pandora012

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,496
I don't think any characters aside from Natasha, Cap, and Stark were meant to be ultimately massively crucial to the plot. It makes sense Danvers would take a back seat and not be the deus ex machina because she hasn't been there for the entire ride. Though you have to admit (I think) that she did kind of save the day in a totally OK way writing-wise by obliterating that giant ship like a badass when it seemed all hope was lost.
I think my problem is that they pushed her so hard and I expected more. She just kept giving reasons why she can't be on earth. But yeah that ship scene was ace.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,055
Appalachia
Wanna send some more love to Figboy, was a great writeup and echoes a lot of my feelings.
I think my problem is that they pushed her so hard and I expected more. She just kept giving reasons why she can't be on earth. But yeah that ship scene was ace.
Probably establishing her character for upcoming interstellar shenanigans in future films more than building her up for something big in Endgame.

One of my friends told me (probably hyperbole) that in the comics she joins the Avengers then bails on them pretty quickly because it's small-time stuff compared to what she could be doing.

As of now I'm basically looking at her like a cocky MCU Goku
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,800
It wasn't alternate version Thanos, though. Not to nitpick, but they explained how time travel works: everything that has happened will have always have happened, one is just creating a new future. By electing to have past Thanos show up in the present was kind of clever. Everything that happened up to that point had already happened, but now that they messed with the past 2014(?) Thanos now jumps into a future where is dead. And they kill that fool again. Without them doing that it I don't know what kind of antagonist they could have chosen beyond a man vs nature story. It also gave us a chance to see the Avengers truly beat him in his prime.

They're pretty clear that their time jumping creates alternate timelines, that's why they have to return the stones back to it, so it doesn't screw up that timelines future. So in a way, this isn't really the same Thanos that we dealt with in the last movie. An alternate timeline is pretty much the same thing as an alternate universe.

And I know why they brought him back, but in my opinion it would have been better without him. Getting the stones back could have been enough for a whole movie. But they can't have a big finale without a giant fight, so they needed a big bad.
 

HotHamBoy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
16,423
Saw the movie for my third and final time in theaters today.

What a ride this has been.

I really didn't like that ending, I thought Captain America should have died instead. I didn't like Fat Thor either. I thought they didn't do service to the character and he became too much of a joke. Don't get me wrong, it was funny but it felt out of place. At the end of Infinity War he was powered up and actually living up to being the God of Thunder, but in this movie they threw that all a way for a shity character arc.

You think fantastical super heroes having to deal with very real PTSD is a shitty arc? Or that Thor finally learning he can live for himself rather than trying to live up to the expectations of destiny is a shitty arc?

Cause either way I strongly disagree.

As far as Cap goes, it makes no sense to kill him for his arc.

Here is a guy who has NEVER lived for himself (even more so than Thor) and always put his duty and life before himself. He sacrificed his whole life fighting. To kill him would just be cynical and bleak.

Giving him the ability to retire without guilt and finally live the life he deserves is the most satisfying conclusion.

It had to be Tony because he's the guy who has been a selfish cunt most of his life and even in Endgame was still trying to put his personal priorities (the peace he found with his family) over the entire Universe.

He had to be the one to die. You should have seen that coming when he and Cap have that talk after Tony pulls up in the Audi.
 
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FaceHugger

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
13,949
USA
Half the universe died because of his mistake. It wasn't supposed to be funny beyond the initial scene.

I agree. It was also a nice study of what PTSD can do a person, even if they're a god. Thor was, well, Thor - the god that had saved his realm and other realms numerous times. A big beautiful "can do no wrong" deity - then he fails, and in a moment of weakness even executes a helpless foe (even of the fucker deserved it). This was an interesting and thoughtful way to use him while milking some humor out of the situation.
 

HotHamBoy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
16,423
I agree. It was also a nice study of what PTSD can do a person, even if they're a god. Thor was, well, Thor - the god that had saved his realm and other realms numerous times. A big beautiful "can do no wrong" deity - then he fails, and in a moment of weakness even executes a helpless foe (even of the fucker deserved it). This was an interesting and thoughtful way to use him while milking some humor out of the situation.
I think Thor is a great example of "we laugh because it hurts"
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,055
Appalachia
I agree. It was also a nice study of what PTSD can do a person, even if they're a god. Thor was, well, Thor - the god that had saved his realm and other realms numerous times. A big beautiful "can do no wrong" deity - then he fails, and in a moment of weakness even executes a helpless foe (even of the fucker deserved it). This was an interesting and thoughtful way to use him while milking some humor out of the situation.
Might get some raised eyebrows for this but watching Thor in Endgame kept giving me slight Luke from TLJ vibes in terms of his having to learn to come to terms with failure and balancing legacy with reality and etc. The arcs obviously didn't progress the same but both were studies on similar themes and I thought it was really smart to use Thor in that way.
 

Pandora012

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,496
Having one film is not something I would consider pushing hard, now if you are talking about the internet...sure.
I forget, some people are only familiar with th movie side of things. That said, even with that one movie they were pushing/hyping Captain Marvel. Oh, she's gonna be necessary to beat thanos, wait she's gonna pop up for 2 secs then disappear.
 

FaceHugger

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
13,949
USA
They're pretty clear that their time jumping creates alternate timelines, that's why they have to return the stones back to it, so it doesn't screw up that timelines future. So in a way, this isn't really the same Thanos that we dealt with in the last movie. An alternate timeline is pretty much the same thing as an alternate universe.

And I know why they brought him back, but in my opinion it would have been better without him. Getting the stones back could have been enough for a whole movie. But they can't have a big finale without a giant fight, so they needed a big bad.

It's not an alternate timeline though. It damn sure ain't an alternate dimension, but that's a whole other thing (dimensions are about far more than just time). That same exact Thanos went on to wipe out half of the universe then die. We know this because we saw it happen, and nothing changed once his past self found out what happened. That happened last year. Now that same Thanos but from 2014 (or whenever) comes into this future and dies. Nothing changes.

Time is a linear thing. If it's ever possible (time travel) one could only move into the past but never change what has been written - that would be a logical paradox. And one can never move into the future, simply because that cannot occur because the future hasn't happened yet. They joke about the absurdity of the depectitions of time travel in some movies early on. The Sorcerer Supreme explains this: to Banner, if he succeeds but doesn't return the stones properly, his future will be cool but to her, as she is at that time, her future will change. Banner would never know this.

Edit: I should clarify, there are no alternative branching timelines from the perspective of these characters. That's impossible. Steve returned the stones to their proper time and place. It's the same Thanos.
 
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