no one cares about his marriage. literally zero. you don't need to bring it up in a discussion about his refusal to work with women.
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Awarding discrimination - The Game Awards
- Thread starter Alucard_DCLXVI_
- Start date
Jésus fucking Christ. If I told one of my clients that I wouldn't work with their female employees, I'd get sued and I'd lose. It doesn't matter how jealous my wife is of me spending time in hotels with women she doesn't know or how much other people gossip about spending late nights together at the office. It's literally fucking illegal in my country (the UK).
I do remember he opted to not work with females on stream with him phsysically to avoid conflict or drama.
White man said a thing. I like white man. Man is white and a man. I am also white and a man. White man must be right.
Then just work backwards from there and fill in any old bullshit you want.
But one is directly linked to the other? Maybe you don't care about his marriage, but can he care about his own marriage himself?
I don't get it, really. There is a margin between refusing to stream with women out of respect for your SO, the couple itself or because one member of the couple or the couple itself isn't comfortable with the idea or the repercussions and tensions it could create, and refusing to work with women because *insert discriminatory statement toward women*.
He's not refusing to work with women because he believes some crazy sexist gamergate mentalities like 'women can't play/make games' or some unacceptable shit like that. The reasons behind this decision do not seem to be driven by hatred toward the other gender, more like a decision that's related to his private life.
I'm not saying what he does should be a standard or that we just accept it as is, it is normal to discuss these issues. However jumping to allegations of sexism sounds like a binary judgement process based on a single statement that takes any context out the window.
To me he is doing something wrong, but for right reasons. But that wrong thing isn't necessarily fueled by hatred.
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Don't jinx it..
...Wait, isn't Greg 'friendly' with Boogie? I swear I heard something about this recently.
Irrationally that gay coworker could lead you to realize you're not as straight as you thought you were? Just the same as a woman could lead you to realize you'er not as in love with your wife or SO as you thought you were?
Our social norms over the past well... forever lead us to racism. But we decided that shouldn't dictate your work environment, right?
Well certainly we don't solve it by discriminating.
You know how I posted how this all feels like an "irrational woman" stereotype argument? Yeah, here it is.
Same could have been said about racism.
lol, you serious? I'm married with a child. I've had a lot of long relationships in my life. It's not 'idealistic' to think your SO should accept you working with the opposite sex. That's the norm for 99.9% of jobs. I guess it's only acceptable if your job features a fanbase of morons that doesn't seem to care about you discriminating half the population because they're so ridiculously fucking toxic anyway. Other than that pretty much everyone does have to grow up and deal with their SO working with the opposite sex. That's reality.
This is a terrible comparison and you know it. A better comparison would be if you worked at Starbucks and told your boss you weren't going to serve any women because they made you uncomfortable and you were afraid your girlfriend would get upset if she saw you talking to any female customers. You'd definitely get fired in that situation and mocked as well.
He doesn't want to work with women so the VGA's are awarding discrimination? Isn't that a bit of a stretch?
But he does care about his marriage right? Who gives a shit about what other people think. I think he should do what feels right and what benefits his marriage. And in no way do I see this as discrimination. Some of you are blowing this up to a point where its ridiculous honestly.
No, I don't see how it would be. They know his views and chose to officially recognize him anyways.
You don't believe saying you will not work with someone because of their gender is discrimination? Are you even aware of what discrimination is? You're objectively wrong.
Some people here don't actually know what discrimination is if you don't think this is discrimination. Which is rather sad. If you wanna be fine with it whatever but how the fuck under any definition is this not discrimination?
Come the fuck on.
Come the fuck on.
His wife is not jealous and didn't ask for this. It's all HIS decision and it's not even based on what she wants.
How many times will I have to repeat myself
the part where he didnt win it for not playing with women on his twitch streams.
User Banned (2 Weeks): Dismissing sexism. Account in junior phase.
So apparently I dont know what discrimination is. The guy isnt unjustly treating female streamers ffs. He's friends with them sure but his chat is cancer as hell when it comes to him playing with female streamers and this affected his marriage. So to protect his marriage he chose to make this decision. Give me a fucking break
I'll admit right from the start that I'm not experienced in online gaming but I really don't understand the thinking at all here. What kind of gossip could build up from a guy and girl shooting at each other on an online shooter?
And I mean, what if someone hugely popular would say "I don't talk to female posters." at this place. Would that go down well?
And I mean, what if someone hugely popular would say "I don't talk to female posters." at this place. Would that go down well?
"I won't stream with women because ultimately women cause me marital problems by doing nothing more than being women and existing"
Do you fucking know what the word unjust means? Yeah, I know you're banned, but I hope you read this and reflect on how dumb your justification is.
lol...let change perspective abit shall we. Replace "female streamers" with "black/asian streamers", and then replace "protect his marriage" to "protect his image". Hmm...I think there's a word for this.
False equivalence?
Edit: I should say I don't like that Ninja doesn't stream with women, but come on now.
Thank you for the article, I did just read it and the follow-up. However in my post, I didn't specifically blamed his wife alone for that decision.
I understand that this is his decision entirely, but my point kinda stands: Is this decision really fueled by actual sexism? He seems to do that out of knowing how the internet can be ill willed toward public figures like him and he fears this could affect his private life. I mean, am I crazy to believe this is a legitimate concern? It's hard to put myself in the boots of a celebrity, but I can entertain the idea that falsely made rumors, news headlines could put some stress in my private life.
His explanations sounds credible to me. Be aware that I am ignorant on the content he delivers, but by many replies here he seems to be one of the recommendable streamers for children, so I assume that he has a good behavior outside of that decision he made.
Y'all are really reaching here. First, he does work with women as his wife is a critical part of his business. Second, he doesn't hold and derogatory or backwards views of women, and choosing not to play with women in his streams is not the same as workplace or hiring discrimination.
He is not hiring anyone, he is not holding anyone back, nor does he have a contract either legally or socially to stream with complete objectiveness. He can stream with whomever he wants for whatever reason he wants. You can look at those decisions and decide what you want to, but I don't know how some of you are coming to the conclusion that he has some sort of agenda against women.
He is not hiring anyone, he is not holding anyone back, nor does he have a contract either legally or socially to stream with complete objectiveness. He can stream with whomever he wants for whatever reason he wants. You can look at those decisions and decide what you want to, but I don't know how some of you are coming to the conclusion that he has some sort of agenda against women.
It doesn't matter if his intentions are misogynistic or not when the end result is textbook discrimination against women. And no, his concern is not legitimate whatsoever. It's a nonsense excuse he made up out of cowardice. He might not be a misogynist, but his behaviour is still ultimately sexist, and very, very cowardly.
It is a mistake to think that misogynistic intent is required for sexist or discriminatory behaviour. It's not. Cowardice and spinelessness are more than enough to achieve this result.
I mean if the point you were making was that you can flip the switch with a few simple changes (whilst exaggerating somewhat) to show why what he's doing is prejudiced then fair enough. But it's also a false equivalence because those two situations are not even slightly the same.
Does it matter? As far as i'm concerned, his intent is irrelevant. It doesn't change the fact that the guy has a major platform and he put out a statement that's adverse to a large and marginalized group of people. If you replace women with any other marginalized group of people, the problems with such a statement are instantly apparent. I don't understand why people are so quick to absolve him of any accountability
Streaming is his work, is it not? Also discrimination isn't confined to the workspace. And it is a derogatory and backwards view to engage in gender discrimination.Do you also believe someone with a black friend can't possible be racist?
https://www.eoc.org.uk/what-is-discrimination/
Maybe that should be in the OP so people stop showing their ass when trying to rationalize how this isn't discrimination.
I agree that the very result of his decision wears the mask of discrimination and sexism. However the context behind it...
I don't know man, I just don't, this is a very conflicting issue to me honestly. Part of your post sound like assumptions on the behinds of his decision while those could also be a real problem to him, but as I said I'm totally ignorant of the guy except that article and the issue at hand, so perhaps I should just educate myself better on the matter before jumping in such a delicate problem.
I didn't mean that mistake and I don't mean to encourage discrimination either, but I'm glad to learn more on how to adjust my view toward discrimation.
One is way more likely than the other and you know it. And to bring your other argument into this, would she be affraid I like black people...or something?
Stop equating jealousy with racism. Please.
I never claimed we do. We also won't solve it by acting like jealousy as the same thing as homophobia and racism.
I would find it more irrational to tell my SO she's helping to spread misogyny and disrciminating other women because she's honest about her irrational feelings.
Nope
Nice putting words in my mouth. I never said that. I said it's idealistic to expect people to not be jealous sometimes. Obviously not allowing the other person to interact with the opposite sex is extreme, but there are plenty of people who would like their SO to not go on dinners with somebody they don't know and is of the opposite sex. There's nuance to this stuff you know.
But I guess nuance is lost on somebody who wants to lump jealousy and homophobia together for some inane reason.
We are running in circles here and I got better things to do and I assume that's the case for you as well. Have a nice day.
No, I'm not, I cannot talk for them, neither do I consider myself a representive of them either. I'm not defending Ninja because he's white or whatever the reason my post could make you judge me. In fact I'm not defending him at all.
I'm just trying to understand how to analyse this situation. Perhaps I was wrong and I truly do apoligize if that's the case, I don't mean to offend anyone.
I'm telling you now, if you lost a job or employment opportunity because of being part of a group you can't change, the reason why that person came to that decision means very little to you. Specially when you are already facing heavy discrimination for being part of that group.
You're putting words in my mouth. I literally posted I know people will be jealous and that's fine. It's when it results in discrimination that it's not fine. Maybe read what I posted?
That poster and I were having a hypothetical discussion and already were aware that his wife didn't state any wish for him to not interact with women. Weren't talking about Ninja's wife.
If your SO has something against you having a dinner with a woman from work, is that her discriminating other women? Or is it just you discriminating because you adhere to her wish? Or both?
And would you tell her to her face that she is having misogynist thoughts that help disciminate women when she tells you she doesn't like you meeting that other woman?
It's illegal in America too. Fortunately this situation isn't the same as your office one.
I really do hope someone sues Ninja one day for this, just so they can lose and so the subsection of ResetEra that hates him can finally realize how silly they seem for calling him a sexist monster.
People are not losing jobs due to Ninja's decision. Why are we equating jobs with something as entrepreneurial as streaming, which may not even a around in 5 years? At worse, Ninja is not promoting other channels. This has nothing do with employee discrimination.
You can criticize Ninja for other many other angles, but he's choosing to do what he wants for his personal platform. I know of a women's focused podcaster that has no male guests on her podcast. She doesn't hate men, she just wants to serve a particular audience. She also makes money from it. But we wouldn't say she's being denying men employment by refusing to have men on her podcast.
This is a more complex issue than saying Ninja is a sexist.
Again, I don't agree with Ninja's approach. It think it's a shame, but the employee discrimination comparisons doesn't make sense. It doesn't take into a fact that people are now making money on their own using the internet. They're many time the sole creative force behind it. It's not a movie. He's not an actor working in Hollywood. He's a one man show essentially. He's producer, writer, performer, all wrapped into one.
The realities are different here.
I agree with this, it makes sense.
The situation here is a bit different though, because the fellow streamers he could associates himself to are most likely already known and successful in their medium. However, missing the opportunity of streaming with him because of that non-written rule does discriminate women in general and creates lots of missed opportunities for great partnerships.
Thanks you for this analogy.
I'd think the female coworker who is losing job opportunities cus of it would have every right to tell them both if they he's not willing to do his work with her (and work functions outside the workplace are work) - and she could go straight to HR as well while she's at it. Then he might lose his job and I doubt his significant other would be happy with that either. That's how that sort of things go in industries - they don't care what the SO thinks either, they care if you can do your job properly which includes working with your female co-worker.
Nobody's saying there's a legal answer to this and very few people are calling him anything close to a 'sexist monster' (you guys sure do like exaggeration with how you frame our opinion of him), just comparing it to other professions where that attitude would be laughed off the premises. But in gaming? Nah that's fine. Personally I think it's just cowardly behaviour to exclude women because you're afraid a toxic subset of your followers will cause shit.
He won't work with women because it's more hassle than it's worth. This is a shitty way to be, and it's a shitty message to send out to your millions of followers, most of whom are young and impressionable. Do you understand that, Bill with 50 posts and no avatar?
I didn't say that it's not discrimination. It's his work, but he is not employing his streaming partners, which is why I was pointing out that it's not the same as workplace discrimination that others are drawing equivalence to by saying things like the can't go into work and tell their boss they refuse to work with women.
Not streaming with female streamers IS discrimination, but discrimination by definition is recognition and understanding that one thing is different than another. There are ways to discriminate that are harmless, ways to discriminate that are harmful, ways to discriminate that are intentionally intended to harm and ways to discriminate that not intended to harm.
Sexual discrimination and age discrimination are institutional and built into social norms. If your business has male and female washrooms and the male washroom needs to be taken out of service for a month so males have to walk further to another washroom, you could argue that males are being discriminated against but you wouldn't. If you are an older married male, you can post a picture to your social media of you having a drink with another older male, and no one would bat an eye, if it's a female people would interpret that differently, if it was a 19 year old female people would interpret that differently as well. That's just life, so people do and don't do certain things for appearances sake.
Ninja's stance to stream only with male streamers falls into the bucket that is not intentionally designed to harm anyone, and doesn't really harm anyone. I don't know of any female streamers that Ninja should stream with them but he doesn't. Ninja is steaming his hobby, and he's made some choices on who to stream with because of the downstream impacts he feels will impact his personal life. He says he's making those choices for the good of his family, which maybe a stretch of the imagination, but it's a stretch that he's allowed to make, and doesn't seem all that harmful.
Correct. Ninja is not employing collaborators. This is where the employment discrimination analogies fall flat on their face.
There are many reasons to critique Ninja's approach, but the employment angle hold no water because in no entertainment business are you forced to collaborate with anyone. It's all volitional.
I'm aware of the potential outcome (which would only take place if the coworker knows why the other person doesn't want to meet her), but that doesn't make the situation the same as blatant racism, which the other poster is claiming.
When I first saw this thread I expected him to get a award for what he said about the situation. Like an award of dishonor, like "The Stream Fails Award" type of thing. But he got an award for something that wasn't related to this at all.