Baba Is You | OT Is Open

Lelouch

Member
Oct 29, 2017
14
So I've
Finished A way out with Baba is End and seen some credits.

but nothing has changed - am I missing something.
The "A way out" level and the credits don't unlock anything. You haven't missed anything there.

How do
I go about unlocking other overworld levels?
How many worlds have you already unlocked? Did you finish the levels 8, 9 and 10 on the world map? Did anything happen there?
 

Boy Wander

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,558
UK
The "A way out" level and the credits don't unlock anything. You haven't missed anything there.


How many worlds have you already unlocked? Did you finish the levels 8, 9 and 10 on the world map? Did anything happen there?
I don't see those levels. Do I need to open up more worlds or something?
 

Lelouch

Member
Oct 29, 2017
14
I don't see those levels. Do I need to open up more worlds or something?
There are gates on the map that show a flower and a number if you move in front of them. You need to collect flowers to open them. In every world you can get one flower if you finish enough levels. In the upper right corner you can see the amount of levels you finished and the amount necessary to get a flower (like 5/7).
 

Boy Wander

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,558
UK
There are gates on the map that show a flower and a number if you move in front of them. You need to collect flowers to open them. In every world you can get one flower if you finish enough levels. In the upper right corner you can see the amount of levels you finished and the amount necessary to get a flower (like 5/7).
I have 88 levels finished and 6 flowers. Do I need to do more to open up the overworld levels that you mentioned?
 

Bananastand

Member
Oct 26, 2017
591
I also felt this way at first, but once you get the mechanics by trying things randomly it becomes really enjoyable, at least for me. :D I think the lack of explanation is nice in a way that you actually learn by trying, and when things are unexpected it's surprising! Maybe it's not for everyone, but I'd say give it a chance. Sleep it off for a few days and you'd somehow just find the solutions come to you.
I gave the game a rest for a couple days, came back to it and solved like 6 puzzles in 30 minutes. I just looked at things in a completely different way. Pretty cool experience.
 

mclem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,261
Very very endgame question:

I have two. I need three. I think I should be looking in the cavern. Should I?

Edit:
Aaand: Done. 33:39 on the clock.

I'm assuming there's some levels somewhere that I'm still missing, but it's quite hard to follow what's been done and not been done.

Definitely on the same tier as The Witness, and that's significant praise in my book.

One ending spoiler:

It's tonally a bit... bleak. It does make me wonder if perhaps there's still one more layer of content in there...
 
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GSR

Member
Oct 25, 2017
586
I have 88 levels finished and 6 flowers. Do I need to do more to open up the overworld levels that you mentioned?
Yes, you need 7 flowers (you can check by moving to the middle-top of the map where there's the locked gate.) Pick a subworld that you haven't gotten a flower for and finish more levels.
 

jman2050

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,891
Finished the game 100% (or I'm pretty sure I have anyway)

Easy early contender for GOTY, masterfully designed puzzle game 10/10 BABA is EVERYONEBUYNOW
 

mclem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,261
I probably shouldn't be surprised, but still: Wow:


(Conway's Life implemented in Baba Is You)
 

Neverfade

Member
Oct 25, 2017
420
I'm up to Solitary Island: Level 9 and things are starting to get tuff. Last few have been stumpers, and this one I can picture what I think I need to do but I don't know how to do it!

Fun game, though, when I don't feel like I have a stupid lizard brain.
 

Doorman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
878
Michigan
For some reason I just kind of feel like doing this. Some folks are finishing clearing the game out, meanwhile there's been quite a few posts from people struggling and having issues grasping some of the game's core concepts and getting into the mindset of "how" to think about the game and its puzzles. So while I was bored somewhat free at work today I decided to write down some tips about certain mental hangups and approaches. I don't plan on spoiling any puzzle solutions so this is all speaking in pretty general terms but if you really want to discover everything for yourself, I'd probably recommend just tackling things without any nudging at all. It's fun, so long as you have the patience for it.
That said, this is just some general observations I've had about the game, which I've split into two-ish greater categories: basic strategic tips, and process suggestions.

The Basics
I'm talking like, the absolute rudimentary basics to start out with. Everything you encounter in the game can be divided into one of two things: objects, and text. Anything that is not text is an object. Whether it's Baba, a wall, some water, a key, a piece of grass or brick patterning, any of it.
The main thing that sets this game apart, clearly, is text. Aside from considering it separate from objects, text blocks can be further broken up into three categories (these are just the terms I'm using for the sake of this post, nothing official):
- Names
- Modifiers
- Traits
Names are a block of text containing the description of an accompanying object (i.e. the actual word "BABA," denoting the little white rabbit-sheep-thing). Modifiers are a word generally used to convey some sort of relationship between two other text blocks (either a name to another name, or a name to a trait). Traits are the colored squares with text inside that confer some sort of quality to an object (most typically through an "is" modifier). A rule is formed when text blocks are pushed together to form a relationship between names or names and traits. At least as far as I am in the game, you need at least three text blocks to form a rule, most usually in [name x modifier x name] or [name x modifier x trait] format.
With those terms established, the overall goal is to clear each level by making an object with the "you" trait ascribed to it occupy the same space as an object with the "win" trait. Simple enough. Sort of. If you're still with it so far, time for some of the basic tips that pertain to general game operation.

1. Think of objects in abstract
One of the things the game tries to make a point of teaching early on is that objects in the game are only given any meaning through rules explicitly formed on the play-field that bestow qualities onto them. To that end, each object on its own is simply a sprite, no more, no less. Try to think of them all in equal terms without necessarily applying real-world logic to them. Keys aren't the only thing that can open doors. You start most levels playing as Baba, but despite the game's title, do not get stuck into thinking that Baba is "You." On that note, it's also worth remembering that "You" in this game is a trait, not an object. Also bear in mind that if there's an object on the field that doesn't have an accompanying name-block somewhere, it is essentially functionless and there only for background's sake (with rare exception).
2. Consider traits in game logic terms, not real-world terms
This is somewhat the "trait" version of the first tip, but sometimes I think one of the biggest hangups encountered with people struggling, especially early on in the game, is too much of a reliance on taking a trait at face-value and making assumptions about it, either from being conditioned to it from previous levels or by applying real-world logic where it might not be accurate. Every trait, described by a word, is really just a function of game-logic that describes a particular quality of an object or impacts the way one object will interact with others. When experimenting with a new trait, be thorough in examining what exactly a trait does or doesn't do. No traits have the exact same function, and some are designed specifically to interact with other traits (such as "hot" and "melt")
3. Think in crossword terms
Scrabble works too, if you're more familiar with that. Text blocks will only form rules when created in a full, unbroken line, reading from left-to-right or up-to-down. However, blocks can also be shared between multiple rules, so long as proper in-game syntax is still being followed. This is particularly helpful when trying to give several names the same trait, giving a name several traits, or sharing a modifier to create multiple rules using fewer blocks than if you just made each rule independently.
4. Text is an object, too
Okay, so this technically contradicts a bit of my earlier categorization about separating objects and text, but the way text is even manipulable in the first place is because the game treats blocks of text themselves as objects. This means that they follow all the same rules that other objects do. Also, "text is push" is perhaps the one rule in the game that is always inferred to be active without being visible on the field.

And now, my process tips. These are basically a rough outline of the steps that I tend to take when approaching levels. Nothing too earth-shattering but maybe hearing it in different terms might help to jump start someone through a tough spot, so here goes.

5. Identify everything
Pretty self-explanatory. What objects are on the field? More importantly, what text is there? Are there any new text blocks that you've never encountered before? Is this a puzzle that's going to require the use of multiple moving parts? How expansive are the potential rule combinations?
6. What is or is not negotiable?
What I mean by this is, related to the "identification" step from the last tip, take a look at where all the currently-active rules on the field are located (you can even pause the game and it will show you a full list of every active rule on the field). In many levels there are some rules that cannot be broken (such as things shoved against the level border, or are surrounded by a bunch of "stop" objects, usually including whatever the "stop" object itself is to make sure you can't just break around that). It's important to note the things that absolutely cannot be changed, and just as important to mark down what can, since those are the things you'll have to be changing around in order to actually clear the level.
7. Work from both sides
I'm throwing this into one tip even though it's a suggestion to do two things kind of simultaneously. It's easy to look at some levels and feel a little overwhelmed, so I find that breaking things into smaller steps helps. Identify where whatever is "You" is starting and look at what objects and text you have immediate access to. What rules can you possibly change right off the bat? Setting that aside, check and see if your win condition is something that's pre-established or not. Working backwards is a really powerful logical tool in a lot of levels. What is the nearest impediment to the win condition, if what "Win" is is non-negotiable? What exactly makes it an impediment and what rules on the field can get around that? If you can work out a step or two from the beginning, and a step or two from the end and visualize both, it becomes easier to form that bridge in the middle and plan out some moves before you have to make them.
8. Take stock of your resources
This might sound at first like tip 5, but I mean this more from a numbers standpoint really. Sometimes the biggest hurdle is just simply not thinking that you have enough stuff to manipulate, for various reasons. This is especially true of levels that require things to be destroyed or moved into inoperable locations. Keep in mind how many things you can potentially move around. Is there a rule on the field that might let you control more things, or create more things, or prevent you from losing something? This is especially one of those times to remember rule 4: sometimes, you might have more to work with than you really think you do, and you don't always have to use literally everything in order to clear a level.
9. If you feel stuck, wipe your slate clean
This is something that's been discussed in various levels of detail throughout the thread already but worth bringing up again. The real largest enemy that needs overcoming sometimes is your own preconceptions, whether about the objects or rules in the game and how they operate, or even how you think a level is supposed to be solved. Sometimes when a roadblock is reached, it's because attempts to solve it have seemingly made progress, but oftentimes, without knowing whether that progress is actually leading in the right direction until the puzzle is near-solved, it can be easy to fall into the trap of taking certain early steps or strategies as granted when they aren't actually part of the solution at all. For that reason it's sometimes best to clear a puzzle from your mind, either by taking a break from the game for a while and "forgetting" the process you were already taking, or by moving around to different levels so that your mind is forced to switch gears to a new problem. I mentioned it myself a couple of days ago that I agonized over one level for a couple of days without moving along, only to find once I finally solved it that a few early levels in another area presented a similar concept in a much faster-to-grasp context that could have easily transferred back over, and I was kind of kicking myself for some of the time lost.

That's a somewhat-condensed version of what I've got for now. Hopefully it might be of use to someone struggling to grasp this game's particular mindset. Happy solving!
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,600
For some reason I just kind of feel like doing this. Some folks are finishing clearing the game out, meanwhile there's been quite a few posts from people struggling and having issues grasping some of the game's core concepts and getting into the mindset of "how" to think about the game and its puzzles. So while I was bored somewhat free at work today I decided to write down some tips about certain mental hangups and approaches. I don't plan on spoiling any puzzle solutions so this is all speaking in pretty general terms but if you really want to discover everything for yourself, I'd probably recommend just tackling things without any nudging at all. It's fun, so long as you have the patience for it.
That said, this is just some general observations I've had about the game, which I've split into two-ish greater categories: basic strategic tips, and process suggestions.
I can't speak for the perspective of people who are already a bit lost early on, but thanks for taking the time to write this up. Hopefully it will give some people a boost so they don't feel pushed to the point of looking up the answers.

I haven't been looking up anything about the game that I haven't already solved, so I assume these resources already exist—but if I were to put together a general, non-spoiler guide to Baba Is You, one additional concept I would address is priority. The game teaches this in introductory puzzles all the time, but I think some players could definitely benefit from an itemized list of how contradictions are resolved when two rules are in conflict, or if a rule-statement is altered at the same time that it's in use, or if multiple statements are activated/deactivated at once. Simple things, like how you can push something that IS both PUSH and DEFEAT because PUSH has higher priority, or how "X IS X" precludes transforming X into anything else. The order of operations, as it were.

Again, I think the game does teach this, often and quite well, but it's the kind of thing that struggling players should be taking notes on anyway, as it's such a key concept to solving the later puzzles. To add to what you said about identifying what is/isn't negotiable and taking stock of one's resources, whenever the game introduces a new text block, it's more important to ask "what does this do?"—pushing blocks around and failing repeatedly until you have a clear picture of how it works—than to look for a winning solution right away.

The main thing that sets this game apart, clearly, is text. Aside from considering it separate from objects, text blocks can be further broken up into three categories (these are just the terms I'm using for the sake of this post, nothing official):
- Names
- Modifiers
- Traits
It will be interesting to see if a consensus eventually forms about the terminology for all this to make communication easier. Privately, I've been thinking about these elements as "subject, verb, object"—although that could risk confusion as well, given how every subject can also be an object; or how as the game introduces more and more mechanics, many of the operators I call "verbs" (which you call "modifiers") aren't actually verbs; or how what I'm calling "objects" are really more like adjectives or properties (or traits, as you said).
 

eltercero

Member
Feb 3, 2018
136
Madrid
Yesterday I had an amazing moment with the game. For me it was similar to discover Star Road in Super Mario World when I was a kid. It happened in a level called Fragile Existence:

I was stuck playing level 09 in the Overworld. There is a text there representing the level itself, so it occurred to me that I could put LEVEL IS YOU, and after that I was in the overworld playing as the level icon. Man, I did not expect that. For a moment I thought I broke the game. I could go anywhere in the map (including the ??? island below that had no access). Even after playing some other levels, I still was level 09. The best I could do was putting LEVEL IS DOOR in Level 09 and now I have a door in the overworld. What a cool moment, this game keeps on surprising.

I have a question about beating the game. I keep clearing areas without even trying the A Way Out level. Is there an ending for clearing all the areas or they just open new areas with no credits rolling? Is the A way out level the proper way to finish the game?
 

mclem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,261
Yesterday I had an amazing moment with the game. For me it was similar to discover Star Road in Super Mario World when I was a kid. It happened in a level called Fragile Existence:

I was stuck playing level 09 in the Overworld. There is a text there representing the level itself, so it occurred to me that I could put LEVEL IS YOU, and after that I was in the overworld playing as the level icon. Man, I did not expect that. For a moment I thought I broke the game. I could go anywhere in the map (including the ??? island below that had no access). Even after playing some other levels, I still was level 09. The best I could do was putting LEVEL IS DOOR in Level 09 and now I have a door in the overworld. What a cool moment, this game keeps on surprising.

I have a question about beating the game. I keep clearing areas without even trying the A Way Out level. Is there an ending for clearing all the areas or they just open new areas with no credits rolling? Is the A way out level the proper way to finish the game?
It is not.

The remainder is spoilery:
You have the first steps. Study the map, and think.

Bigger hint:
Those rules in the bottom-right are not there for flavour.

I'll leave it there for now.
 

mclem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,261
I can't speak for the perspective of people who are already a bit lost early on, but thanks for taking the time to write this up. Hopefully it will give some people a boost so they don't feel pushed to the point of looking up the answers.

I haven't been looking up anything about the game that I haven't already solved, so I assume these resources already exist—but if I were to put together a general, non-spoiler guide to Baba Is You, one additional concept I would address is priority. The game teaches this in introductory puzzles all the time, but I think some players could definitely benefit from an itemized list of how contradictions are resolved when two rules are in conflict, or if a rule-statement is altered at the same time that it's in use, or if multiple statements are activated/deactivated at once. Simple things, like how you can push something that IS both PUSH and DEFEAT because PUSH has higher priority, or how "X IS X" precludes transforming X into anything else. The order of operations, as it were.
Putting my coder's head on for a moment, I think it's perhaps easier to think in terms of there being two distinct forms of traits:

* Ones which activate when an object attempts to enter the tile (PUSH, STOP).
* Ones which activate when an object ends the turn on a tile (SINK, DEFEAT). I believe *these* interactions are the ones which are potentially negated by the two objects having different FLOAT states.

It's still not quite a solid setup, because of OPEN/SHUT; it's possible to push OPEN objects onto STOP objects iff they're also SHUT; it's the only in-game interaction I can think of which requires referencing three distinct traits, and I can't think of a way to split that interaction into two distinct two-trait reactions. I'm getting very interested in figuring out just how the rule system is implemented!

BIG ENDGAME SPOILERS:

In particular, we had it established by Hempuli early on that the special behaviour of TEXT always being push wasn't handled by special override code - it used the internal interface with an invisible rule dictating TEXT IS PUSH .

In light of Meta, I can't help but wondering if there's a similar hidden rule established for CURSOR... and if so, just *what* it is to make the core functionality (only move on levels and lines usually, but you can ride on objects anywhere) function
 
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eltercero

Member
Feb 3, 2018
136
Madrid
It is not.

The remainder is spoilery:
You have the first steps. Study the map, and think.

Bigger hint:
Those rules in the bottom-right are not there for flavour.

I'll leave it there for now.
Yeah,
I specially thought about those rules when I became a level, I guess a flag will eventually appear.
. Thanks!
 

mclem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,261
Yeah,
I specially thought about those rules when I became a level, I guess a flag will eventually appear.
. Thanks!
Up to you whether you want to see this, but perhaps a prompt for where to look:

You already have access to the places you need to have access to.

Edit: A side thought: don't read this, but other people past this point might be interested to see it:

Obviously the intended interaction is BABA IS YOU/FLAG IS WIN on the map, but I can't see any reason for LEVEL IS YOU to not work just as well. Will be interested to hear if it's effective.
 

Doorman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
878
Michigan
I haven't been looking up anything about the game that I haven't already solved, so I assume these resources already exist—but if I were to put together a general, non-spoiler guide to Baba Is You, one additional concept I would address is priority. The game teaches this in introductory puzzles all the time, but I think some players could definitely benefit from an itemized list of how contradictions are resolved when two rules are in conflict, or if a rule-statement is altered at the same time that it's in use, or if multiple statements are activated/deactivated at once. Simple things, like how you can push something that IS both PUSH and DEFEAT because PUSH has higher priority, or how "X IS X" precludes transforming X into anything else. The order of operations, as it were.
Putting my coder's head on for a moment, I think it's perhaps easier to think in terms of there being two distinct forms of traits:

* Ones which activate when an object attempts to enter the tile (PUSH, STOP).
* Ones which activate when an object ends the turn on a tile (SINK, DEFEAT). I believe *these* interactions are the ones which are potentially negated by the two objects having different FLOAT states.

It's still not quite a solid setup, because of OPEN/SHUT; it's possible to push OPEN objects onto STOP objects iff they're also SHUT; it's the only in-game interaction I can think of which requires referencing three distinct traits, and I can't think of a way to split that interaction into two distinct two-trait reactions. I'm getting very interested in figuring out just how the rule system is implemented!
Yeah, this is the kind of stuff I was getting at especially in terms of thinking about traits in game-logic turns, because it helps to inherently address a lot of these sorts of "priority" questions. To use a very basic early example,

"STOP" when applied to an object means that no other object (text included) can move into and inhabit the same space as the stopped object on a turn.
When the "PUSH" trait is applied to an object, another object trying to move into the same space will instead displace the "push" object one space forward in the direction of movement. If the push-object cannot move into that space for whatever reason, then movement does not occur for either object.

Looked at in this way, you could say that PUSH has priority over STOP and essentially rules STOP out, but that's really just a function of PUSHs unique quality meaning that the conditions under which STOP are applied are never reached. Stuff like PUSH has a tendency to "override" a lot of other traits, because most of them involve interactions when multiple objects inhabit the same space rather than adjacent ones.
Still, you are right that there are some inherent hierarchical elements involved, as there are a few traits that will directly invalidate another in specific circumstances (the aforementioned SHUT being the only one I can think of that I've encountered so far) but it's probably easier to keep a mental list of the few exceptions rather than try to keep a discrete listing of every potential interaction.
I'm not sure if any later levels address this, but I do wonder in that way how they might resolve a combination of SINK, HOT, and MELT in determining which object(s) would be destroyed.

I waa originally going to write another tip about the passage of time in game, but it's only ever relevant in levels that involve objects moving that aren't YOU, which felt specifically-situational enough that I didn't want to overload things even further.
 

Irminsul

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,186
It really helps to just put levels you can't solve aside and just try another one, at least for me. I just solved "Tunnel Vision" (Temple Ruins-02) in about 30 seconds after thinking long about it before, which felt great. I always seem to prefer complicated solutions even if a really simple one is available.

Also, I really didn't want to sacrifice Baba.
 

Nappael

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,891
Just wanted to say hi to this thread.

Been playing this game on my Linux laptop, and I'm only a little part of the way in (completed most of the levels in the lake), but this is seriously looking like it's going to be entering my top puzzle games list already if this continues.
 

Shift Breaker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
448
Man, I've spent days on Mouse Hole (Volcanic-1) trying to get that key to the rock, including being one square away and the solution came to me today while at work and I feel like a proper moron.

Still, done it now. It's basically like having a whole new world to explore.

Edit: And now I've finished A Way Out?! Twice, too. I thought that would be the way to get more puzzles. I was wrong.

This game is ace.
 
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XaosWolf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
543
Okay I'm doing something wrong on Fall-E: Skeletal Door. I'm just repeating the same thing and getting nowhere.
I'm assuming I need to push either Baba or some text through to the other side but I can't seem to make it work without destroying something and leaving me without any pieces to play with.
Can anyone give me a hint to nudge me in the right direction?
 

snowtire

Member
Nov 17, 2017
374
It's unreal how impressive this game continues to be lol. After doing a lot of what I can so far in the later parts of the game, I went back to do some earlier levels I had given it up on or not touched at all; it's really neat how some earlier levels are almost no-brainers once you've been working with the more complex stuff for awhile, like the second extra level in the lake, which stumped me on my first pass and that I solved pretty much without thinking about now. Also, ruins-10 'further fields' is really, really great, glad I figured that one out (although to be fair I have the exact same feeling about many of the harder levels in general, that's just the last one I did lol).
At 123 levels cleared now, seems like loads left to go....
 

Regiruler

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,862
United States
Anyone encounter some really serious performance issues on Switch in level "Got all this stuff here?" The moment you turn on Ice is Push the game runs like a slideshow, but becomes fine once you disable it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,600
For the first time I've used a *genuinely* fundamentally identical solution for both a level and a harder version of the same level.

The levels in question are Stardrop and Meteor Strike, and yeah, despite the small differences between the two levels, fundamentally the same solution worked for both. I'm suspect that means that at least one wasn't the intended solution!

(Also, I'm pretty sure my solution for Queue was too simple to be the intended one)

As an aside, I think I've stumbled on a genuine rule inconsistency. If you haven't been to the levels mentioned above, do not read this spoiler; it's late-game stuff.

In WALL, if you set up "WALL IS (effect)" it results in both WALL and ALL having that effect; if you pull up the pause menu you can see that both rules are in play.
In AB, if you set up ABABA IS YOU, it does not recognise the substring component (I should add that the doubled-up AB is the second in that lineup).
I should check to see what GSTAR IS FLAG does.
It probably ought to consistently recognise substrings in that context, surely?
Just cleared these and searched this thread to see if anyone had mentioned them. Now I'm able to respond.

I loved Stardrop the moment I saw it (though as someone with an aptitude for anagrams, it was perhaps the easiest non-trivial puzzle in the bonus worlds, and even if you aren't good at anagrams the clues for the relevant elements are right there in front of you), but I have to agree that I have no idea what they were going for with Meteor Strike. It seems there is something this puzzle wanted to set up with STAR HAS LOVE and the additional MELT properties to make HOT relevant, but if that's what it was going for, it seems to be missing an essential blocking tile to prevent constructing GHOST just a few spaces left of where it was before. And that's quite strange, as blocking the original placement of GHOST is the major modification to the layout to begin with. In the end, LOVE was totally redundant as there was nothing you needed it for that you couldn't already do with a spare letter. The belt gap in the middle looks like it was meant to throw something off, but in practice it doesn't do that whatsoever, and if anything the placement in Meteor Strike is even easier to spot and assemble than in Stardrop because nothing is bunched up against the wall.

It was a bit of a strange moment, as this was one of the only times that Baba Is You has felt loose, whereas so much else in the game (especially the hard-mode modifications) create the sense of jamming just one inconvenient tile in the way of what you want to do. Here, even Stardrop has a few extraneous elements, like how MELT is just there to give the opening sentence something to do, and deactivating it isn't useful for anything whatsoever, apart from giving the player the impression that blowing up the starting sentence accomplished something.

As for AB—you've probably thought it through already, but from an implementation standpoint it looks pretty simple. Substrings with one-letter tiles work just fine. But "AB" on a single token evidently isn't handled as letters A and B; rather, I think this is just a special case where "B AB A" resolves to BABA. They're not the same class of entity. (And it's only interaction involving the AB token, at least from what I've seen; I'm at 170 wins and have cleared all of ABC.)

I agree that it sticks out at first because it doesn't adhere to the same high-level semantics that all of the other letter mechanics in the bonus worlds do (and of course the first thing I tried on that stage myself was ABABA, which the game practically invites you to do), but as something that only shows up once—as far as I know—it didn't strike me as terribly inconsistent. But this is definitely a programmer-brain approach to looking at the game, and I think certain kinds of players will indeed cry foul when ABABA doesn't work, like some of the grumbling in the early worlds about Prison.
 
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mclem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,261
Anyone encounter some really serious performance issues on Switch in level "Got all this stuff here?" The moment you turn on Ice is Push the game runs like a slideshow, but becomes fine once you disable it.
I did encounter performance issues, but not quite in the context you're describing. To go into detail requires a few solution spoilers:

I did encounter performance issues from excessive spawning from MAKE, but only for when I attempted something that constantly spawned objects without destroying them. The solution I eventually used had destruction inbuilt so the number of objects in play remained reasonable.

Edit:
Actually, maybe they're not unrelated; if you'd already spawned a ton of ice - that happened to all be in one spot - then it would, potentially, have a slowing impact when it also has to start checking for the PUSH trait each turn.

I wonder if internally it's treating each of a stacked object individually when assessing rules, when it *could* in many cases treat the whole stack as a single object. You could do some clever things with multipliers for the more complex interactions.
 
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mclem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,261
Sounds like there's a Switch patch on the way:


I gather that the newest PC version has a new extra level in it.
 

Strangiato

Member
Oct 28, 2017
452
How do I zoom in so the play area takes up the whole screen. The settings screen even refers to zooming.

Nevermind. It becomes clear what zoom is a few levels later.
 
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mclem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,261
Just cleared these and searched this thread to see if anyone had mentioned them. Now I'm able to respond.

I loved Stardrop the moment I saw it (though as someone with an aptitude for anagrams, it was perhaps the easiest non-trivial puzzle in the bonus worlds, and even if you aren't good at anagrams the clues for the relevant elements are right there in front of you), but I have to agree that I have no idea what they were going for with Meteor Strike. It seems there is something this puzzle wanted to set up with STAR HAS LOVE and the additional MELT properties to make HOT relevant, but if that's what it was going for, it seems to be missing an essential blocking tile to prevent constructing GHOST just a few spaces left of where it was before. And that's quite strange, as blocking the original placement of GHOST is the major modification to the layout to begin with. In the end, LOVE was totally redundant as there was nothing you needed it for that you couldn't already do with a spare letter. The belt gap in the middle looks like it was meant to throw something off, but in practice it doesn't do that whatsoever, and if anything the placement in Meteor Strike is even easier to spot and assemble than in Stardrop because nothing is bunched up against the wall.

It was a bit of a strange moment, as this was one of the only times that Baba Is You has felt loose, whereas so much else in the game (especially the hard-mode modifications) create the sense of jamming just one inconvenient tile in the way of what you want to do. Here, even Stardrop has a few extraneous elements, like how MELT is just there to give the opening sentence something to do, and deactivating it isn't useful for anything whatsoever, apart from giving the player the impression that blowing up the starting sentence accomplished something.

As for AB—you've probably thought it through already, but from an implementation standpoint it looks pretty simple. Substrings with one-letter tiles work just fine. But "AB" on a single token evidently isn't handled as letters A and B; rather, I think this is just a special case where "B AB A" resolves to BABA. They're not the same class of entity. (And it's only interaction involving the AB token, at least from what I've seen; I'm at 170 wins and have cleared all of ABC.)

I agree that it sticks out at first because it doesn't adhere to the same high-level semantics that all of the other letter mechanics in the bonus worlds do (and of course the first thing I tried on that stage myself was ABABA, which the game practically invites you to do), but as something that only shows up once—as far as I know—it didn't strike me as terribly inconsistent. But this is definitely a programmer-brain approach to looking at the game, and I think certain kinds of players will indeed cry foul when ABABA doesn't work, like some of the grumbling in the early worlds about Prison.
I note that there's something possibly related to this in the most recent patch notes, although it doesn't go hugely into specifics so I'm not sure if it's exactly what we're talking about here:


(Also earlier patch notes list the other levels we've been discussing as levels that have been tweaked)
 

Arcus Felis

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,205
I need an explanation for a level: Ruins: Love is out there (6):
I managed to clear the level on my own once I realized that what I thought was a bug was in fact a feature (this game, maaaaan): by making Box has Key and Box is Weak, we can create infinite number of keys by pushing the box against other keys (heck, a key and a box on the same space will always destroy the box and create a key AND a box in its place). Genius so far, I bet it can be useful later.
Now, one thing I don't get is this: why are keys not disappearing when used with doors? Key is Open, Door is Shut, therefore keys should disappear once used. However, they do not disappear: I could open two doors with the same key. So, errr, what gives? What am I missing?
 

Euler

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,128
I need an explanation for a level: Ruins: Love is out there (6):
I managed to clear the level on my own once I realized that what I thought was a bug was in fact a feature (this game, maaaaan): by making Box has Key and Box is Weak, we can create infinite number of keys by pushing the box against other keys (heck, a key and a box on the same space will always destroy the box and create a key AND a box in its place). Genius so far, I bet it can be useful later.
Now, one thing I don't get is this: why are keys not disappearing when used with doors? Key is Open, Door is Shut, therefore keys should disappear once used. However, they do not disappear: I could open two doors with the same key. So, errr, what gives? What am I missing?
So what happened is this:

you had multiple keys stacked on top of each other.
 

ghostemoji

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,134
I really enjoyed this game at first, but I'm quickly running up against a wall where I feel like the game doesn't do a great job of giving you a clear idea of what the commands mean. It was fine in earlier levels when trial and error was a lot easier, but as things get more complicated/complex, trial and error is much more laborious/time consuming. It's kind of causing me to lose steam on it.
 

mclem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,261
I really enjoyed this game at first, but I'm quickly running up against a wall where I feel like the game doesn't do a great job of giving you a clear idea of what the commands mean. It was fine in earlier levels when trial and error was a lot easier, but as things get more complicated/complex, trial and error is much more laborious/time consuming. It's kind of causing me to lose steam on it.
Got a specific example in mind? Those aren't particularly spoilery, so it shouldn't be too harmful to establish precise definitions for any of them.
 

ghostemoji

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,134
Got a specific example in mind? Those aren't particularly spoilery, so it shouldn't be too harmful to establish precise definitions for any of them.
I actually don't have an example as I haven't played in a few days and nothing comes to mind specifically. But sometimes a command is new or you haven't seen it in awhile and it's hard to remember what exactly it does and in what context it does it. Trying to plan out your course of action is difficult when you're not sure you understand what command means.

I just think it could be a little more user friendly in that regard.
 

snowtire

Member
Nov 17, 2017
374
I got an orb....... I gave up on depths extra-4 'buried treasure' after a good half hour or so....i have a few movement mechanics down that seem like they're needed but I couldn't quite get it.....but I realized a way past to the depths flag right after I backed out....very curious where more orbs would be
I do sort of wonder if there's more beyond the depths or the flower world but for now I think I'll end up going back to the regular zones and clearing out most of what I can there. I've only cleared a level or two in the mountain zone, and there's still a whole bunch I haven't looked at yet....
 
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jariw

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,631
Lot's of unique puzzles, but really I liked Flower Garden-07 ("Blockade"). Such a great example of when every tile in the main part of the puzzle is placed there for a reason (but also for different reasons).
 

Feep

Lead Designer, Iridium Studios
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,238
About 110 puzzles in, just took down Trio and Platformer. But most of the low-hanging fruit is done. Each successive puzzle is taking me at least ten minutes, maybe upwards of twenty.

But I soldier on, into the night.

So good. There's something crazy every few puzzles.
 

Tunahead

Member
Oct 30, 2017
839
I'm already composing a series of rhyming couplets with oblique hints pointing towards my hideout. I'll need them later, when I kidnap the mayor of Gotham City.