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Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
I don't think the point is that other sexualised designs aren't being complained about. It's just disappointing that in a thread full of stylised depictions of women, a tall muscular one is being called out. The amazon is obviously sexualised, I don't think anyone is going to dispute that, but I don't think it's a coincidence that the grossed out reactions tend to be reserved for women whose shapes don't confirm to the idealised idea of "feminine". We apparently accept all sorts of abstractions of features that society deems attractive in women, but if you take them in opposite ways, people seem more likely to complain. It's hard to not connect the dots between this and the general disdain that taller, heavier, or more muscular women experience in real life. (For instance, earlier this week a lady was forced to cover up by an airline company because her curvier shape made her be perceived as inherently more lewd, in spite of wearing a regular looking summer outfit.) What it also does, is make it seem like a round-about discussion about attractiveness, which is what this thread about badasses is not about.

This has been an interesting series of posts from you and I've liked reading them. There's definitely something there. This character seems to be at some kind of intersection of criticisms.

But yeah VVV

I don't think anybody's explicitly brought up attractiveness as a counterpoint, nearly so much as the alien proportions.

^^^yes
The element of the body alone is so strong and somehow mixed up in things. By "the body", I mean the off-putting potential of the rippling muscled body. It's perfectly common for people to find the bodies of world champion bodybuilders to be unattractive. A magnitude moreso for women bodybuilders tho, which i think leads back to the point to maybe a problem with large+objectified women characters.

In the amazon's case, there's the general potential "grossness" of the over-muscled body (and way more with a woman. Way way more.), and the unabashed sexualization (as sexist as anything mainstream that comes to mind.) which is pretty much inextricable from the whole thing. I think it's hard to pick apart, but maybe there is something deeper in there.

As earthpainting points out, maybe these things clash in a manner that puts people off to amazon in a particular way. Importantly, I can't imagine someone creating this without knowing that it would cause disturbance, offense, amusement, titillation, etc among different people.

...

But after all this i still have not the faintest idea of what shes like in the game lol. That might help. I imagine her as sort of laconic? Idk.
 

ArmadilloGame

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,070
Haven't seen much Warcraft in here. There are a ton of badass warrior women there; I figured Sylvanas and Jaina would be flooding this thread. I'll submit Sally Whitemane - leader of the Scarlet Crusade. She has a ton of flaws, but is undeniably a badass.

300px-High_Inquisitor_Whitemane_TCG.jpg
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
So I know this is probably cheating since she's from an anime first but she gets to be more badass in the games then she does in the show so I'm counting it.
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Lisa Lisa from the Jojo's Bizarre Adventure games. A badass vampire slaying martial artist who was sadly underutilized in her home series. The video games let her get the full fighter treatment and it's great.
 

Numb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,246
So I know this is probably cheating since she's from an anime first but she gets to be more badass in the games then she does in the show so I'm counting it.
jjba-asb-lisalisa.png


Lisa Lisa from the Jojo's Bizarre Adventure games. A badass vampire slaying martial artist who was sadly underutilized in her home series. The video games let her get the full fighter treatment and it's great.
Inspiration for Rose aswell from Street fighter who is a great


Rose-Street-Fighters-video-game.jpg
 

pellava

Member
May 30, 2019
6
Finland
Undyne from Undertale
173

(she was posted already but i'll elaborate why she's amazing!)
- Most respected warrior of the whole Underworld (aka the world they live in)
- Has a spear and buff armor instead of sexualised tiny clothing
- She's a canon wlw
- She's aggressive and breaks stereotypes of how women should act
- Kind and caring inside
 

SchrodingerC

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,862
So many good choices already posted.

Though not a great fighter like many other picks in this thread, Heather from Silent Hill 3 is among the best imo.
re-examining-silent-hill-3-gamings-most-unfairly-overlooked-sequel-808-1462864283.jpg

Goes through a literal hell and kills a God after being dragged back into the Cult's second attempt of creating paradise.

Sarah Kerrigan from Starcraft(1 mainly, 2 has dubious writing)
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She was competent both as a Terran Ghost and the Queen of Blades. Although her SC2 design is fucking ridiculous, especially the Zerg themed high heels. 🙄
 

Deleted member 15395

Unshakable Resolve
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,145
I think the entirety of Dragon's Crown designs are meant to evoke classic D&D / Robert Ervin Howard-esque art. Add that to the already...lets say "exagerated" designs that Kamitani has and you get the Amazon / Sorceress. I wouldn't call it "bad art" by a mile (not trying to be snobbish, but seriously, implying that George Kamitani is somehow a bad artist is just...no) but I can understand why people may not like it.

Thread Specific:

Maiden in Black from Demons Souls

0505347097FA0152BC717F6A4ECDEBA8AD34BBC2


She's not presented as a warrior per-se but we don't really know that she is not one. She will help the PC lvl up, offer advice and comfort and will even apologize for not being able to die if you accidentally (or not) kill her.
By the end of the game you realize she's actually one of the most powerful demons in existence and gives you the choice to either take her place or lull the big bad boss back to sleep (potentially saving the world).
 

Kenai

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,187
Amiri_cropped1.jpg


Pathfinder: Kingmaker's Amiri.

Takes no shit from anyone, not interested in politics and loves to fight, then eat, then fight some more. Her tribe didn't like it, and sent her on a dangerous mission with a bunch of other hunters in an attempt to kill her for her troublesome "independence". Came back with a frost giant's sword, found out what they did, and when they continued to mock her to her face she Raged and killed the entire party.
 

Zetta

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,644
One of the first female character that stuck to me was Alys Brangwin from Phantasy Star IV, Its a great game and she made it better.

latest
 

Ragnorok64

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
2,955
There's Ivy from Soul Calibur who's been around forever. Both as in being in the game for like every iteration but also I'm pretty sure she's immortal or ages slowly or something.
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Ragnorok64

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
2,955
Selvaria Bles from Valkyria Chronicles. Enemy commander, capable of fighting your whole squad with that equipment.
7vn36M8.jpg

zgnluHy.jpg
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,979
Undyne from Undertale
173

(she was posted already but i'll elaborate why she's amazing!)
- Most respected warrior of the whole Underworld (aka the world they live in)
- Has a spear and buff armor instead of sexualised tiny clothing
- She's a canon wlw
- She's aggressive and breaks stereotypes of how women should act
- Kind and caring inside
Her theme is fucking amazing too, especially the Genocide one. A true badass hero.
 

Rob2K19

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,646
I knew that I'd be the one to post it.

latest


Waga na wa Masutaa Aqua- Tomo no kokoro wo kaeshite morau!

PS: Dat Amazon artwork looks good.
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,895
Undyne from Undertale
173

(she was posted already but i'll elaborate why she's amazing!)
- Most respected warrior of the whole Underworld (aka the world they live in)
- Has a spear and buff armor instead of sexualised tiny clothing
- She's a canon wlw
- She's aggressive and breaks stereotypes of how women should act
- Kind and caring inside
Also she's hilarious. Everything that happens if you become her friend is the reason why she's my favorite character in that game.
 

texhnolyze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,177
Indonesia
Mostly Bioware girls, which makes it one of the reasons why the studio is so special for me.
  • Jaheira & Imoen from Baldur's Gate
  • Lady Aribeth from Neverwinter Nights
  • Bastila from Knights of the Old Republic
  • Leliana and Cassandra from Dragon Age
  • fem Shepard from Mass Effect
  • Dawn Star from Jade Empire
 

Radeo

Banned
Apr 26, 2019
1,305
Badass has been ruined for me by Randy Pitchford, but anyway fighting games have a ton

Seong Mi-Na, gotta rep my fellow Koreans. She wants to join the military to fight against Japanese raiders, her father wants her to settle down and marry a nice man, she runs off to find the Soul Edge and trains with Drunken Master. A tale as old as time.
latest



Julia Chang, who doesn't love environmentally conscious female luchadors?

latest


On the subject of strong environmentally conscious women, Nakoruru. Who else can claim they sacrificed their life to become the Spirit of Nature? Also she fights with animals.

latest
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
11,865
A lot more than I thought there was in this thread.

Also, wow at people defending the Dragon Crown design. I like that game from a gameplay perspective and what the art is going for, but the character designs are genuinely off-putting. Like it's not sexy, it's grotesque like some weird badly proportioned deviant art porn.
 

Team_Feisar

Member
Jan 16, 2018
5,354
Moràg from Xenoblade Chronicles 2

c305028ce0639d39fbf075c239b8b1e4.png


- Nice Armor & fancy hat that looks like a train
- Wields one of the canonically strongest blades
- Has the Nickname "The Flamebringer"
- Uses her standing and authority to not be the enemy-turned-friend-and-betraying-their-homeland-trope but actually bridging the conflict and gets both sides to talk (if i remember all of that correctly)
 
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Ragnorok64

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
2,955
The upcoming Indivisible will have Phoebe as a character. Warrior that traveled with her husband and 3 kids, before his death.

HbgqhQw.jpg

xnYQj82.png
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
Badass has been ruined for me by Randy Pitchford, but anyway fighting games have a ton

Seong Mi-Na, gotta rep my fellow Koreans. She wants to join the military to fight against Japanese raiders, her father wants her to settle down and marry a nice man, she runs off to find the Soul Edge and trains with Drunken Master. A tale as old as time.
latest



Julia Chang, who doesn't love environmentally conscious female luchadors?

latest


On the subject of strong environmentally conscious women, Nakoruru. Who else can claim they sacrificed their life to become the Spirit of Nature? Also she fights with animals.

latest

I have been thinking nakoruru was missing from this thread.
 

Deleted member 28462

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 31, 2017
55
Like for many here, Meve is the best I've played thus far.
The story is incredible and I wish they made a full-blown RPG a la Witcher 3 with her.

dOwbjqL.jpg
 
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Techno

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,412
The Boss is probably the GOAT because I've never seen a character in any medium have such loyalty to their mission.

cdhx60.gif


She sacrifices her life and name, having the world and history think she was a traitor.

metal_gear.jpg

This is my pick too, no one comes close to her. Not even Kojima could repeat this again.
 

flashman92

Member
Feb 15, 2018
4,562
One of the first female character that stuck to me was Alys Brangwin from Phantasy Star IV, Its a great game and she made it better.

latest
First character that came to mind

Probably one of the first female characters to be not just a fighter, but a strong mentor/leader. The other 3 female characters that stuck out to me were the female characters in Seiken Densetsu 3 (Secret of Mana 3).

The Final Fantasy games and Chrono Trigger also had good female characters as well, but they never really stuck with me like Alys did.
 

Look! The Pie!

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
794
My favourite archetype!

There are too many posts I want to quote, but shout-out to those who repped Cassandra and Aveline (Dragon Age), Freya (FFIX), Morag (XBC2), Kanon and Anastasia (Wild Arms 2), Raquel (Wild Arms 4), Chris (Suikoden 3), Titania and Lucina (Fire Emblem), Mae (Shining Force), Lisa (Shining the Holy Ark), Julia (Trails in the Sky), Eileen the Crow (Bloodborne), Evie Frye (Assassin's Creed), Alys (Phantasy Star IV), Agrias (FFT) and Faris (FFV). All favourites of mine and badasses, every one.

Two more who immediately spring to mind for me:

latest


Beatrix (Final Fantasy IX)
Genuinely surprised she doesn't seem to have been mentioned yet. General of Alexandria and commander of its all-female army, she fights and wipes the floor with you three times (the third fight not ending in your utter defeat like the other times only due to her deciding to join forces with you). In time-honoured tradition, her skills are nerfed when you finally get to control her, but she's still an absolute badass and her arc is one of my favourites in the game, despite her not actually being a main character.

latest


Lucia (Suikoden 2 and 3)
Originally showing up as an enemy commander in the second half of Suikoden 2, Lucia is a recurring boss consumed by a desire for vengeance on the City-State of Jowston for her father's murder. 15 years later, she shows up again as the mother to Hugo, one of Suikoden 3's protagonists (the timings suggest that she may have been pregnant during the events of the previous game, making her even more of a badass). Now the leader of her tribe, she's largely matured from the recklessness of her youth but is still a fierce warrior and battle commander. Mothers in JRPGs are often top picks in the death pool - ones who are fighters in their own right even more so - but Lucia survives the war and goes back to working towards the future of her clan, that is, when she's not embarassing Hugo in front of his forces with her public displays of motherly affection. She's the best.
 
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Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
OP, trying to avoid talking about Fate is in itself unfair.

Arturia is the best badass warrior woman of the video game scene, and anyone can fight me on that. No, you cant rather, because you cant fight against the truth.

FBCD62D0CC8BD42573D5EB48121A8C60A3DEC6FD
 
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Elma4Smash

Banned
Jul 15, 2019
119
Tbh I think this thread needs to ask the reverse question. Aren't all female protagonists these days 'badasses'? I'm kinda bored by these power fantasies. Same for badass male protagonists.

Games need more normal 'weak' heroes, more whimsical protagonists who go on adventure and fight enemies against all odds.

It's what I like about games like Project Zero, Silent Hill, and even Zelda to a degree. You're the hero of the game, but you're not in control of power. Enemies are. You just make the best of what you have at your disposal. Which I find, ironically, mych more badass than protagonists who kill dozens if not hundreds of enemies in bloody fashion. *yawn* 🐣
 

iamaustrian

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,291
I remember a young assassin (or mercanery?) in skyrim in whiterun with a badass face painting (looks a bit like braveheart but in brown).
She doesn't talk all that much. She immediatly caught my attention.

I have no clue what's her name and, no, I have no pic either. :(
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,362
Most of my favourites have already been named: Lady Maria, Alys, Aloy, Ginchiyo, Emily, Billie Lurk, Chris Lightfellow, Agrias, Faris, even Mae, thank you TheJollyCorner ! (Fuck all the tit-ninjas being posted though, barf)

So I guess I'll list those who haven't been named yet:

Meliadoul (FFTactics), a brave knight trying to do the right thing as her family crumbles around her. She's not as strong as Orlandeau but I liked using her anyway, she was just way more balanced instead of being super-OP:
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Lady Harken (Wild ARMs), a tragic heroine-turned-monster from vile experiments from her body (which fell in battle). She looks damn cool here:
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Lady Maria (the other one) from the Nioh DLC, a Spanish fencer and damn tough boss (also eerily similar to Bloodborne's Lady Maria, lol):
DD3813ED590740201170782F7DC539400D4E1CF6


Lady Butterfly (Sekiro), a rare example of a badass old lady:

lady-butterfly-gallery-6-wiki-guide.jpg



She's also not de-womanized. Yes she's badass, but also funny, flirty, and has a Strong maternal instinct.
She totally has though. Her dialogue is pretty much identical to Alexios. I like Kassandra a lot but she's as gender-neutral as they go.
 

spman2099

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,893
(Fuck all the tit-ninjas being posted though, barf)

Indeed. Some of the choices have been pretty suspect.

Lady Butterfly (Sekiro), a rare example of a badass old lady:

lady-butterfly-gallery-6-wiki-guide.jpg

I am legit angry at myself for forgetting Lady Butterfly. If Resident Evil 2's Clare is my choice for best protagonist of this year, Lady Butterfly is my choice for most memorable antagonist (she comes from a game with an endless supply of amazing antagonists, but her being an older woman puts her over-the-top, as you NEVER see older women portrayed as intimidating antagonists).

She totally has though. Her dialogue is pretty much identical to Alexios. I like Kassandra a lot but she's as gender-neutral as they go.

Would you say that is definitively a bad thing, Morrigan?

I know this is a somewhat controversial opinion in certain circles, but I think the second a character is given "feminine traits" they are entering into dubious territory. Generally, I question if actual gender traits (as they exist in real human beings) are more about how actions are perceived differently based on gender (primarily due to social bias). Like, Kassandra's affection for Phoibe is perceived as "motherly" (by some), because Kassandra is female. However, if you are playing as Alexios, you may perceive his connection to Phoibe as being more paternal. When I think of people trying to write strong female characters (emphasis on the female), I think of Starbuck from the newest iteration of Battle Star Galactica. A character who is portrayed as so emotionally volatile that she almost appears insane at times.

Do you know of any characters which are (to use Baccus's term) portrayed as being womanly that aren't borderline insulting? I think the same thing applies for men, by the way. When a male character is portrayed as having strong male traits I always find them to be a gross stereotypes of a machismo laden man (which can serve a purpose if said character acts as a critic of machismo, of course).
 
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Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,362
Would you say that is definitively a bad thing, Morrigan?

I know this is a somewhat controversial opinion in certain circles, but I think the second a character is given "feminine traits" they are entering into dubious territory. Generally, I question if actual gender traits (as they exist in real human beings) are more about how actions are perceived differently based on gender (primarily due to social bias). Like, Kassandra's affection for Phoibe is perceived as "motherly" (by some), because Kassandra is female. However, if you are playing as Alexios, you may perceive his connection to Phoibe as being more paternal. When I think of people trying to write strong female characters (emphasis on the female), I think of Starbuck from the newest iteration of Battle Star Galactica. A character who is portrayed as so emotionally volatile that she almost appears insane at times.

Do you know of any characters which are (to use Baccus's term) portrayed as being womanly that aren't borderline insulting? I think the same thing applies for men, by the way. When a male character is portrayed as having strong male traits I always find them to be a gross stereotypes of a machismo laden man (which can serve a purpose if said character acts as a critic of machismo, of course).
It's not really a bad thing. It's just... different.

But I did feel like Kassandra was lacking a "female perspective" in her character. I don't mean that there are feminine or masculine traits in terms of personality, but Kassandra's story didn't feel like a "woman's story" told from a "woman's perspective". This is a limitation of the two swappable protagonist feature. If Kassandra were a dedicated character, I feel her writing would have some differences and she would definitely be more gendered... and I think it wouldn't be a bad thing at all, on the contrary. I wrote about it before a bit in previous posts.
 

spman2099

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,893
It's not really a bad thing. It's just... different.

But I did feel like Kassandra was lacking a "female perspective" in her character. I don't mean that there are feminine or masculine traits in terms of personality, but Kassandra's story didn't feel like a "woman's story" told from a "woman's perspective". This is a limitation of the two swappable protagonist feature. If Kassandra were a dedicated character, I feel her writing would have some differences and she would definitely be more gendered... and I think it wouldn't be a bad thing at all, on the contrary. I wrote about it before a bit in previous posts.

Ah, I gotcha. I see what you are saying. I actually fully agree that the game would have been better if the genders weren't swappable and if the interactions were more tailored towards Kassandra's character (which would obviously include her gender). It would be even better if they could provide both options and create a uniquely tailored scenario for both characters, but that seems like it would be asking a lot given the scope of Odyssey (and if one character has to go, it should clearly be Alexios). Though you could do SUPER interesting things with it. Like, have certain characters be awful in one campaign, but act super charming and likable in another (as many people do interact with different genders differently).
 
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ScoobsJoestar

Member
May 30, 2019
4,071

Hell yeah. I find that one issue with the "warrior lady" trope is that sometimes writers go really far into making them be robotic, cold creatures that are just...honestly pretty boring. Like they are badass but that's it.

Meeve is badass, but she's also just fun. She has a sense of humor and you get a sense for who she is as a person when she's not stabbing shit. She's one of my favorite characters of this generation. Thronebreaker was filled with rad characters. She's the best because she doesn't feel like the writers were trying to push her for Summerslam and make her into the strongest, most badass creature, everything she does feels very natural.

For the lack of a better explanation, she's written really well and I like her a lot.
 

Lawr

Banned
Sep 17, 2018
70
Shout out to Zarya from Overwatch. She's a little bit robo-racist, but she's a goofball and her abilities are all about co-operation. She's a tank that gets her power from attacks being absorbed by her shields. However because of the way the cooldowns work, she has to protect others just as much as she protects herself. When everything falls into place, Zarya is feels unstoppable.


I don't think the point is that other sexualised designs aren't being complained about. It's just disappointing that in a thread full of stylised depictions of women, a tall muscular one is being called out. The amazon is obviously sexualised, I don't think anyone is going to dispute that, but I don't think it's a coincidence that the grossed out reactions tend to be reserved for women whose shapes don't confirm to the idealised idea of "feminine". We apparently accept all sorts of abstractions of features that society deems attractive in women, but if you take them in opposite ways, people seem more likely to complain. It's hard to not connect the dots between this and the general disdain that taller, heavier, or more muscular women experience in real life. (For instance, earlier this week a lady was forced to cover up by an airline company because her curvier shape made her be perceived as inherently more lewd, in spite of wearing a regular looking summer outfit.) What it also does, is make it seem like a round-about discussion about attractiveness, which is what this thread about badasses is not about.


This sounds super disingenuous and in bad faith; conflating different things almost to the point of sounding like concern trolling. No one cares about her height or muscles, we've seen plenty of characters posted who are tall and/or muscular. She's in a fucking bikini. That's the point along with her bouncing breasts and ridiculous ass size and animation.

Yeah, Athena is a bikini, too and that's not cool either. She's nowhere near as egregious as Amazon and it's pretty easy to see why no one else is either - her sexualized proportions and animations are ridiculous.
 

DaciaJC

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,685
Hell yeah. I find that one issue with the "warrior lady" trope is that sometimes writers go really far into making them be robotic, cold creatures that are just...honestly pretty boring. Like they are badass but that's it.

Meeve is badass, but she's also just fun. She has a sense of humor and you get a sense for who she is as a person when she's not stabbing shit. She's one of my favorite characters of this generation. Thronebreaker was filled with rad characters. She's the best because she doesn't feel like the writers were trying to push her for Summerslam and make her into the strongest, most badass creature, everything she does feels very natural.

For the lack of a better explanation, she's written really well and I like her a lot.

Well said. As an example of what you mean, I really enjoyed the scene where she teases Reynard and Gascon about their interest in "ballistae."