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Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
The former UN secretary general Ban Ki-moon called on Americans to pass universal health coverage at a speech in New York City on Tuesday, marking a dramatic intervention of world leaders into the US healthcare debate.

Ban called on the US to stop "powerful interests" from prioritizing "profit over care" as part of a global delegation pushing the US to adopt a publicly financed health system similar to those in other wealthy countries.

The US spends more on healthcare than any nation in the world, yet 28 million Americans still lack care.

"In the US, all too often only rich people get access to expensive life-saving treatments," said Ban. "This is unjust and threatens everybody's health when working- and middle-class people with communicable diseases cannot afford treatment for their infections."

"Even routine preventive care is often prohibitively expensive," said Ban. "As America is demonstrating, you simply cannot reach universal health coverage if your health system is dominated by private financing and ultimately functions to prioritize profit over care."

Enacting universal health coverage would be a revolution in US healthcare. Currently, the US relies on a complex network of for-profit health insurers, government subsidies and limited public insurance programs to provide healthcare access to Americans.

Of the 25 richest countries in the world, the United States is the only one without universal health coverage. The political prospects of passing such a law remain remote with conservatives in power, yet calls for universal healthcare in the United States have grown louder since President Trump's election as Republicans try to dismantle healthcare regulations.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/09/ban-ki-moon-us-universal-healthcare

Glad to see more jumping into this debate.

Regardless of the actual implementation, it is imperative that the private for profit monopoly on things like insurance must be eliminated and their lobbying power taken away from being able to buy political influence at the cost of the citizens.
 

Deleted member 2802

Community Resetter
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
33,729
Nah fam, we need to buy more guns first. That way we can stop people!

(But i agree tbh. It is insane to me how a country consistently announced as one of the big boys doesnt have something like this in place.)
But their latest iPhones

Regardless of the actual implementation, it is imperative that the private for profit monopoly on things like insurance must be eliminated and their lobbying power taken away from being able to buy political influence at the cost of the citizens.
Too much money to be made. Very hard to topple
 

Dingens

Circumventing ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,018
the fact that we had 2 threads today about not being able to afford health care anymore, this issue seems more pressing then ever. Yet I have no faith that anything will ever change - not under republicans and not under democrats. Even bernie would've had a rough time doing anything. The whole system is almost impenetrable with to many monetary interests at play.
The only solution I could see would be some sort of new state-owned nation wide insurance company which the private ones would have to compete with. Oh, and every hospital etc is mandated by law to accept ... let's call it US Care.
 
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Inuhanyou

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
Nah fam, we need to buy more guns first. That way we can stop people!

(But i agree tbh. It is insane to me how a country consistently announced as one of the big boys doesnt have something like this in place.)

Its obvious isnt it? Powerful people have the government and politicians ears. Its easy to crush important policy when it goes against their bottom lines and the established order.

Healthcare as it stands now makes a lot of people a lot of money, and if the system is broken for the citizens, that doesn't really matter. Same goes for our energy situation, a lot of our "defense industry", and countless other things. All of it can be traced back to money and powerful institutions in the end. Lack of regulation, no regulation and of course, this applies to taxes and other things too.

This is why the claim that the US is not a democracy but an oligarchic form of government(IE Oligarchy) is absolutely true.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Its obvious isnt it? Powerful people have the government and politicians ears. Its easy to crush important policy when it goes against their bottom lines and the established order.

Healthcare as it stands now makes a lot of people a lot of money, and if the system is broken for the citizens, that doesn't really matter. Same goes for our energy situation, a lot of our "defense industry", and countless other things. All of it can be traced back to money and powerful institutions in the end. Lack of regulation, no regulation and of course, this applies to taxes and other things too.
The people making a lot of money are not the reason we don't have UHC in the USA, though.

You can thank racism for that one.
 

Coinspinner

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,154
Mind yer own, Moon.

If healthcare were cheap I'd be out of excuses for never seeing a doctor. Can't have that happening.
 

Bakercat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,154
'merica
No no no, that's not how it works. First you convince the people to buy more guns out of fear. When they start shooting each other out of said fear, where do they go? The hospital silly. They then get billed $1000's and now in debt. They're sacred of getting shot again and going into debt, so they get more guns for protection. Rinse and repeat and now you have a thriving health care system.
 

Twig

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,486
The people making a lot of money are not the reason we don't have UHC in the USA, though.

You can thank racism for that one.
Absolutely true. Also, the people making a lot of money are quite happy with allowing racism to continue working in their favor. "We get to hate AND profit? Oh joy!"

What a great country I live in.
 
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Inuhanyou

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
The people making a lot of money are not the reason we don't have UHC in the USA, though.

You can thank racism for that one.

Your not going to sit there and claim that the health insurance for profit monopoly, the for profit pharmaceutical industry and others who pay the GOP right now to destroy our current system are not doing it for their own profit motives.

Yes, they apart of white institutions which contribute directly to institutional racism in America, but denying the monied interest aspect is being intentionally blind.

It affects everyone in the lower classes, even if it disproportionately affects us minorities. Racism and monied greed go hand in hand.
 

Bronx-Man

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,351
I want the whole damn pie, baby.

Universal Healthcare
Universal Basic Income
Legal Marijuana
An End on Private Prisons
Free Tuition
A repeal of Citizens United
Background checks on assault rifles
Reparations for blacks
 

Chaos2Frozen

Member
Nov 3, 2017
28,049
Shit's so bad other countries need to intervene to talk some sense into you and save your asses.

"Come on America, you used to be cool!"
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Your not going to sit there and claim that the health insurance for profit monopoly, the for profit pharmaceutical industry and others who pay the GOP right now to destroy our current system are not doing it for their own profit motives.

Yes, they apart of white institutions which contribute directly to institutional racism in America, but denying the monied interest aspect is being intentionally blind.
Yes, those business are trying to protect their profit margins and business models.

But those profit margins and business models aren't fundamentally incompatible with UHC, which is why we were able to get them to the table w/ Obamacare, even WITH a public option included, which had a majority in the house and 59/60 in the Senate.

I absolutely agree that they need reforms but they're not the ones who get really angry when a bunch of "those people" get medical coverage.
 

Deleted member 11822

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,644
Sorry what was that? The health care and pharma industries can't hear you over the sound of the cash registers!
 

Chekhonte

User banned for use of an alt-account
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,886
I wonder if in 3 years a Dem can win the nomination on universal health care. The GOP plan to tank obamacare seems to have backfired.
 
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Inuhanyou

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
This will never happen. Universal Healthcare in the US is a pipe dream.

Just like civil rights legislation, gay marriage and 2 day weekends, or so people thought at some point. Saying something is impossible is self defeatist claptrap

I want the whole damn pie, baby.

Universal Healthcare
Universal Basic Income
Legal Marijuana
An End on Private Prisons
Free Tuition
A repeal of Citizens United
Background checks on assault rifles
Reparations for blacks

Someone i follow on youtube actually brought up a really good reparations idea, some sort of government sponsored debt relief plan for all lower income black and brown families

Yes, those business are trying to protect their profit margins and business models.

But those profit margins and business models aren't fundamentally incompatible with UHC, which is why we were able to get them to the table w/ Obamacare, even WITH a public option included, which had a majority in the house and 59/60 in the Senate.

I absolutely agree that they need reforms but they're not the ones who get really angry when a bunch of "those people" get medical coverage.

They are incompatible with sane policy proposals as long as they are so strong that they hold the keys to influencing the impacts, the effects and the scale to which their bottom lines are affected by any potential law. At this time, their influence is so large that they can control all of that because they ARE medical coverage in America to a majority extent.

So what needs to happen is a cutting off of their power structure. It is not enough to make deals with them hoping they'll "play fair" with the system they can easily bias. The ability for them to influence itself needs to be taken out.

Its as ridiculous as saying something the NRA can be reasoned with because they have to make a dollar too, they would love to have sane regulations that stop killings and compromise on their profit motives to do it. These people don't care about that as long as their income flow and influence is strong. Its an overly naive viewpoint to have considering how corporations have control at this point. We are a despot compared to other first world nations in how private interests have control over basic things that for profit monopolies should not be in control of.

I'm not so far gone that i think private industry should be eliminated, i'm fine with private insurance coverage like Canada which has it as a supplemental plan. But its clear that in America, our private industries are so powerful that kneecapping their influence first is much more important first thing.
 
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GameChanger

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,935
Universal healthcare is bad for our country. Why should I pay a little more in taxes for my healthcare and some poor losers healthcare when I can just pay a lot for my healthcare and no one else's. Ban Ki Moon just does not understand the importance of the individual in our culture. We need the rich to get richer so their money can tricke down on us. Poor people shouldn't get in our way for selfish reasons like the right to live and be healthy.
 
But their latest iPhones
I cant even laugh at this knowing this is entirely plausible.

Just to give a tidbit on health insurance:
I just got a bill on the dentist for the usual 6 months check up. This time also two x-rays had to be taken show the progression of the teeth, and some cleaning up.
Without health insurance, it would have costed me around 65 euros. (Granted, 12 euros for literally 5 mins cleaning is kinda bs). But with health insurance, i now have to pay 7.50 euros.

Sure, you need to pay money for your insurance.. but the benefits are certainly there.
 

SlothmanAllen

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,834
The fact that the US is the only nation out of the 25 richest in the world that doesn't have universal healthcare is very telling. This is another issue that confounds me as a Canadian. Every time I see debates around healthcare reform in the US, universal healthcare is framed as some sort of untested, socialist fantasy.
 

Any Questions

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,074
UK
Moon shining a light on the truth. Profits, lobbying and the two party system is a real strangle hold of making things better for the majority.
 

Kmonk

#TeamThierry
Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,695
US
Been looking for a good place to leave this:

Had my open enrollment consultation with my company's rep last week. After being presented with this year's version of my plan, I noted that it
-Cost more
-Increased premiums
-Increased Deduct/OOP

All by significant margins. I griped a bit that it was becoming impractical to even use my insurance.

My rep replied that it WAS becoming unsustainable, and that single payer/universal is pretty much the only option to repair the system.

And here's the thing: she acknowledged that she would be out of a job, and STILL advocates for single payer. That kinda ended the debate for me.
 

TheMikado

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
1,300
Number 1) we should absolutely but there are other ways fix system.

2) the idea that all of healthcare is broken is because of racism is completely absurd: seriously not every evil thing in the world is about race.

3) the US healthcare system is broken from top to bottom. It's a capitalist venture because everyone in needs to " recoup" their costs.

Doctors need to get paid for 10 years of school loans with university costs increasing each year. They need to pay practicioners insurance which rises with the sue happy culture we have. Drug companies need to get paid for the millions of dollars they invest hiring the high priced doctors and scientists with high priced school loans from high priced school loans. Insurance companies need to charge high priced premiums to pay high priced medical bills from high priced doctors.

The ACA put limits on profits for insurance companies and you see how quickly they close up shop rather than do business at all. When talk of single payer happens it would reduce Medicare/caid reimbursements which some doctors stopped taking. Many doctors threatened to completely stop practicing at all if their money get messed with. Drug companies threaten to get out of the business altogether if changes to drug patents were made. The point is money unfortunately drives the system all the way through. We saw what happens with when you limit their profits. The fix is to focus on the cost to practice medicine and the cost to either develop or maintain a drug patent.
 

Gyro Zeppeli

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,289
The damning part about this all is the American people hold all the power, technically. Unfortunately, we bicker among ourselves, and remain divided because of class, race, gender, and sexual orientation. We have trouble speaking as one voice towards the rich and lobbyists. We can absolutely make universal healthcare, universal basic income, and free tuition a reality, but the poor and middle class have to be in total agreement on their demands, and to vote in droves to make it happen. There is this sort of feeling of intimidation that the poor and middle class have when thinking about the rich and powerful, but they have it all wrong. The rich fear the poor and middle class immensely, and what they fear specifically is social unrest from those classes of people.
 
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Oct 28, 2017
664
Sadly, that's the reason for a lot of our inadequacies compared to other wealthy nations.

Isn't that amazing? It's just astounding that it isn't discussed more. Well, not surprising, but I'm still dumbfounded when I think about its implications. If this country actually overcame its hangup with black people enjoying the fruits of our nation's promise alongside everyone else, this entire world - not just America - would be in such better shape. It really shows you how diseased racism is. We have so much potential, so much wondrous possibilities to explore, but we can't because too many Americans we need to push things forward hate black people. Think of the decades in progress - on every front, from tech to science - that America has squandered because of that hatred.
 

TheMikado

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
1,300
Yeah this isn't about denying people healthcare based on race.. this is about the fact that the responsibility of training medical professionals and investment in life saving pharmaceuticals shouldn't be left as a primarily free market venture.
 

ShadowSwordmaster

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,476
With this attitude nothing will happen.

Maybe a single payer universal healthcare is a pipe dream, other forms of UHC are possible within our lifetimes, as long as we keep trying.
Just like civil rights legislation, gay marriage and 2 day weekends, or so people thought at some point. Saying something is impossible is self defeatist claptrap.
Saying that it will happen is not any better. A lot of things needs to happen and getting there requires people to vote on and I don't trust a lot of people after the 2016 presidental election.
 

PanickyFool

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,947
With this attitude nothing will happen.

Maybe a single payer universal healthcare is a pipe dream, other forms of UHC are possible within our lifetimes, as long as we keep trying.
Well the old political concept of once you give someone a benefit, you can't take it back applies here.

A not insignificant minority of the population is making a larger amount of money than they would in a UHC system, not just the middle and upper classes but the employees of the actual system. They will fight tooth and nail as single issue voters against a reduction in their personal revenue.
 

Big Boy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,902
Better healthcare won't kill cancer though. Now guns, guns can probably kill cancer. Should spend more money on guns imo.