It's so strange seeing that quick cut, Raid knock off being praised so highly. The knife thing is weirder sincs emphasis on the knife isn't important. Bourne's fights with pens, news papers, etc emphasis something. A knife? How standard.
The Raid is a martial arts spectacle. That's kind of the point of the movie. Raid 2 was supposed to be Raid 1 but if I recall the budget wasn't there so he made Raid 1 instead.
So what are you thoughts on all the quick cuts in Cap v WS? Still makes it a "good fight"?
Probably because it's not filled with a bunch of punches that barely connect and look sloppy as fuck.
That point would only make sense if I was arguing TDK had a better choreography.
My point is that better editing can't save the dramatically inferior source
It's easier for me to look past bad punches instead of ignoring excessive cuts. I can at least see the DKR fight.
Dude, I know goddamn well you're not gonna argue Rises has the better fight scene of these two.
This is a bit strange. If you watch plenty of martial arts movies you will notice that a lot of fights (mostly 1 v X) tend to become kind of lol worthy. Ever watch The Raid 2 where at the end he storms the restaurant and he throws an empty water jug at a guy and he literally falls down in completely agony for about 2 minutes as the protag fights people? Or in Raid 1 where it's 2 v 1 and one kind of goes off-screen for a little to wiggle in agony? A lot of fight scenes don't actually make a lot of sense as you go for the spectacle while adding in what makes the characters unique IE Bourne using random house hold items to emphasize his cleverness and quick thinking. Just because WS does a knife flip, or they have connecting punches doesn't automatically make a fight good. It's more about how its staged, shot, and what it adds to the story. You have to remember that a fight scene is more than just punches but part of the overall film. If it's just a fight scene just because the movie NEEDS a fight scene then it will always peg a bit lower. This is pretty true for a lot of blockbusters that just throw in action as if it's just needed because a focus group got bored.
I can't remember therefore not good isn't an argument.
Funny you should say that, I actually saw the raid before I saw winter soldier and my immediate thoughts were "whomever did the choreography has either seen the raid or worked on it." It looked very influenced by that film.
No, it really didn't. It uses quick cuts to fake speed, but that just makes it a mess to watch.
Cuts don't make a fight bad. Nonsensical cuts that hide the action or make things confusing are bad. Cuts that emphasize the moves in the fight are fine.
It actually didn't. Bourne did it well. It didn't actually work to make you believe they were stronger or faster. The impacts against cars or throwing objects did, and those didn't need quick cuts.
This isn't a fight for the sake of it, this was the culmination of a public attack they were stopping. And Cap fighting someone that easily proved to be his match earlier. Culminating to the big mystery of the film, who is the winter soldier.
I can't speak for you specifically, but generally people are attached to the hero characters and don't want to see them harmed. To this point the Winter Soldier has essentially bulldozed through anything in his way. He attacked and killed Nick Fury, tossed a character the heroes were using as an informant in front of a semi truck, and shot Black Widow in the shoulder. To this point in the movie, Winter Soldier is an intensely threatening villain, and even if you don't think Captain America is going to be killed (since it's his movie), there's no guarantee he'll be able to protect Natasha or Sam. And the end of the fight reveals that this guy is in fact Captain America's friend, who was supposed to be dead, adding another emotional component to the story.
A lot of the action is hidden, though, because it frantically cuts through to each blow that you don't get the feeling they are super at all. The only time you really see clear speed and strength is when it's a wide shot that has more clarity of the characters and scene. Go to 1:07 in that video linked above to where TWS kicks Cap, it's not a close in kick but wide and clear to demonstrate it. You then have just before Cap being cropped on sprinting at him but it's supposed to show speed? It's wildly inconsistent. It happens throughout the clip. Those cuts are bad. If the idea was to deliver their superiority physically then it failed. Compare it to Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon Yu Shu fights Jiao Long where emphasis is on weapons and their mastery over them. It's shot to show that and it does with clarity. TWS doesn't do that for their physical power.
I honestly don't think the Bane fight is all that impressive from a story/emotional standpoint. The emotional resonance of it is supposed to be that you're seeing Batman get the shit kicked out of him but between Batman being way out of his prime and Bane having some kind of stupid plot armor (oh he can just pluck Batman out of total darkness because reasons) it kills the feel of the fight. If Darth Connery walked into Gotham and beat the shit out of Batman 10 minutes after The Dark Knight ended or made Batman run a gauntlet before confronting him (like he does in the comics), that would have some more emotional resonance to me. The only real good emotion from that scene is Catwoman standing there quietly realizing she screwed up.
