Barr on Police - "Comply first" "Complain later" "Zero tolerance for resisting police"

Syriel

Member
Dec 13, 2017
5,612
Fuck William Barr.

Those are not the words of a man with any respect for the laws of the United States. For the US Attorney General to utter them is shameful.

Fuck William Barr.

After telling the crowd that "we need to get back to basics," Barr said that public figures in the media and elsewhere should "underscore the need to 'Comply first, and, if warranted, complain later.'"

"This will make everyone safe - the police, suspects, and the community at large," he said. "And those who resist must be prosecuted for that crime. We must have zero tolerance for resisting police. This will save lives."
Source:
 

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,293
Gentrified Brooklyn
[email protected] save lives.
Too bad there's example of where no one is 'resisting' but somehow magically someone gets shot.

There's also the bigger issue that there's a level of privilege that thinks getting arrested, going to jail, and taking time off to defend yourself is something anyone can do. Or worse, having to pay for an actual lawyer if the cops are lying on you
 

Cranster

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,366
Very short sighted, complying or failure to complying is not an issue. The issue is a combination of racists in the police ranks, corruption and how police are trained in the United States (the amount of guns in the country doesn't help either).
 

Z-Beat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,182
People have been shot before they were even able to turn around, much less resist arrest
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,285
After reading the shit about the poem on statue of liberty and then this? I seriously want to break some shit.

This guy is worth less than the dog shit on my shoes.
 

AtomLung

Member
Oct 25, 2017
595
“Keep profiling people and push them to the point of outrage and then arrest them for it. To save lives.”
 

Wamb0wneD

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,665
Shut the fuck up and keep being a personal attorney to Trump as long you still have the chance.
 

efr

Member
Jun 19, 2019
460
Someone is projecting. Cant wait to see this bite him and Trump in the ass in a few years
 
Nov 23, 2017
3,030
Why is, in every state, the attorney general elected by the population but the US attorney general is not? Clearly the Senate has abdicated its role in actually vetting the Cabinet.
 
Apr 17, 2019
558
Viridia
What the fuck.

Guys, is this seriously the standard procedure for the police in your country?
I mean, I'm not arguing for mouthing off with obscenities or actual physical resistance either (because clearly no good ever comes off that) but surely there is some wiggle room between just asking questions/explaining yourself and just straight up "OBEY OR DIE!"
 

Matthew77

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
2,373
Massachusetts
After reading the shit about the poem on statue of liberty and then this? I seriously want to break some shit.

This guy is worth less than the dog shit on my shoes.
Add in the attempt to executive order in control and censorship of the internet, it’s starting to look like the rollover into full fascist state is at the tipping point, and as has frustrated me today most Americans on the “left” still want to play nice and take a moral high ground, never mind the dog piling on anyone who speaks up for action and hitting back. I’m pretty sure by the time they actually realize it may take more than being nice and getting votes it will be too late. We are fucked.
 

incognito

Member
Oct 28, 2017
914
what if the police are wrong though?
Apparently it's up to you to burn through all your cash and free time to prove it down the road, long after you have already put up with defamation, suffering, pain, and the humiliation of the initial arrest (if you even survive).

This country drastically needs a law enforcement overhaul
 

King Alamat

Member
Nov 22, 2017
1,916
What the fuck.

Guys, is this seriously the standard procedure for the police in your country?
I mean, I'm not arguing for mouthing off with obscenities or actual physical resistance either (because clearly no good ever comes off that) but surely there is some wiggle room between just asking questions/explaining yourself and just straight up "OBEY OR DIE!"



Reality has morphed into Grand Theft Auto-style parody.
 

TeenageFBI

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,416
You're surprised that a Republican senate approved a Republican cabinet?
Senators used to kinda give a shit about an appointee’s qualifications, and Presidents used to choose candidates that would be at least palatable to both parties. Trump’s picks are astonishingly bad yet almost none of them face scrutiny from Republicans.
 

Ogodei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
7,394
North Jackson High
Senators used to kinda give a shit about an appointee’s qualifications, and Presidents used to choose candidates that would be at least palatable to both parties. Trump’s picks are astonishingly bad yet almost none of them face scrutiny from Republicans.
Barr is an absolute shitheel but you can't argue that he's unqualified for the job. He used to have it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,949
Have the Libertarians shat themselves in unity at this blatant affront to civil rights, or are they still jerking off to block-chain porn and Ayn Rand novels?
 

KarmaCow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,306
Senators used to kinda give a shit about an appointee’s qualifications, and Presidents used to choose candidates that would be at least palatable to both parties. Trump’s picks are astonishingly bad yet almost none of them face scrutiny from Republicans.
That was when there was still a pretense of cooperation being neccessary. After being complete obstructionists during Obama, they realised the public at worst didn't care and continued to double down. Add in gerrymandering ensuring a Republican majority in the senate, there's no reason to pretend to care about what the otherside wants.
 

Dyle

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
8,103
Wisconsin
Shitty but unsurprising. He's the kind of dude who would say Eric Garner should have stopped resisting
Why is, in every state, the attorney general elected by the population but the US attorney general is not? Clearly the Senate has abdicated its role in actually vetting the Cabinet.
Electing an attorney general isn't really great either because it makes for a situation where guys who build a reputation of being "tough on crime" are often favored candidates. Either way you're kind of screwed and just depend on having the right people win the right elections
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,292
Shitty but unsurprising. He's the kind of dude who would say Eric Garner should have stopped resisting

Electing an attorney general isn't really great either because it makes for a situation where guys who build a reputation of being "tough on crime" are often favored candidates. Either way you're kind of screwed and just depend on having the right people win the right elections
To build on this, Barr saying this is pretty much in line with what most AGs think. Most AGs in this country suck when it comes to holding police accountable.
 

skillzilla81

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,777
Pretty sure I've seen (black) people killed for "resisting arrest" while they were incapacitated on the ground.

It sounds like he wants cops to kill more (black) people than they already do.
 
Nov 1, 2017
561
Hey anyone remember when someone was asked to get their wallet from their car, reached for it and got shot?

Should have compl.....oh wait
 

ynthrepic

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
628
William Barr is a soulless moral monster who probably sucks Trump off on the regular. However, he is not wrong about this.

I'm not arguing for mouthing off with obscenities or actual physical resistance either (because clearly no good ever comes off that) but surely there is some wiggle room between just asking questions/explaining yourself and just straight up "OBEY OR DIE!"
There absolutely is room for a conversation. But if the cop says no, or doesn't want to talk, that's it. Their job is to enforce the law, not debate philosophy. If they believe you have broken the law, you have the right to public legal representation. If you refuse their instructions, it's their right to arrest you for it. If you resist arrest, it's their right to use force. If they fear for their lives because of your resistance, at least in the US, that means you risk getting shot.

Are there problems with training, discipline, racism, and more within various police departments in various states? Absolutely. But you don't solve these problems by undermining police authority. You create needless risk to your life, and you do a disservice to the office by forcing them to make tough calls. The fact that many good officers are afraid of being accused of racism, only makes it harder for those good cops to do their jobs properly.

Incidents of unwarranted police violence are rarer than the internet would have us believe, because some incidents are widely publicized even if what actually happened is incredibly ambiguous based on the footage. All this does is undermine the legitimacy of law enforcement, feeding into the attitude that resisting police instructions is a good idea. It fucking isn't. Don't do it. Viral internet videos will not solve this problem, unless they are unambiguous examples of police brutality and lawbreaking.

People get killed while complying all the time.
That's bullshit. Obviously there is an incidence rate, and it's probably higher in the US than other countries. But all the time is hyperbolic to say the least.

People have been shot before they were even able to turn around, much less resist arrest
Why do the cops have their guns drawn on your in the first place? Are your hands up when you turned around? Did the police instruct you to turn around? Every situation is unique. Speaking in broad terms about rare incidents helps nobody.

Kinda hard to complain when you’re dead, b. Not to mention the folk who comply and still get killed.
If only complying insured that one's life wasn't in danger. It doesn't.
This. We have bodycam footage of people complying and still getting murdered. Fuck the GOP.
Again, this is almost never the case. Prove me wrong. Especially you UnpopularBlargh.

Complying means making yourself as meek and non-confrontational as possible, along with following instructions *like you don't want to get shot*. I have never seen a video where any such person was shot.

There have been a couple very horrible incidents I will grant, involving people with mental health issues - but these are not evidence of the things people think they are. Mental health is poorly understood, and police procedure and training needs a lot of work. But again, non-compliance won't solve the problem.

Very short sighted, complying or failure to complying is not an issue. The issue is a combination of racists in the police ranks, corruption and how police are trained in the United States (the amount of guns in the country doesn't help either).
Failure to comply absolutely is an issue; and in almost every so-called police shooting, whether touted as racist or not, there is evidence of this occurring. But you are absolutely right otherwise. Racism is an issue, albeit in select states and state departments, and in numbers that, as far as I can tell, do not exceed the per-capita incidence rate in the general population.

Apparently it's up to you to burn through all your cash and free time to prove it down the road, long after you have already put up with defamation, suffering, pain, and the humiliation of the initial arrest (if you even survive).

This country drastically needs a law enforcement overhaul
You have the right to a public attorney for which you do not have to pay money. You should also go to the media, and record evidence with your phone as always. Again, you don't know half the time why you are being arrested - sometimes a cop could be responding to a call about someone else, for whom you have been mistaken. Racism makes incidences of this more likely too. If they're responding to a violent suspect, they may draw their guns immediately.

I'm not going to say law enforcement are doing a good job. Far from it. But I must emphasize again that despite is other evils, Barr's advice here is sound. Resisting arrest, or failure to comply with police instructions, is stupid. We want police to be better, but if we want that, we have to better too.

Edit: Just to be clear, I don't necessarily agree with Barr's wording. "Zero tolerance" policies of any kind are subject to abuse and should be avoided. You can't shoot everyone who resists arrest, or argues with police, obviously. My message should be clear: try not to give the police any excuse to arrest you or use force against you, and in 99.99% of cases, they will not.
 
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Futureman

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,655
I mean maybe this would work if there weren't soooo many shitty, severely lacking in training police officers.
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,527
William Barr is a soulless moral monster who probably sucks Trump off on the regular. However, he is not wrong about this.



There absolutely is room for a conversation. But if the cop says no, or doesn't want to talk, that's it. Their job is to enforce the law, not debate philosophy. If they believe you have broken the law, you have the right to public legal representation. If you refuse their instructions, it's their right to arrest you for it. If you resist arrest, it's their right to use force. If they fear for their lives because of your resistance, at least in the US, that means you risk getting shot.

Are there problems with training, discipline, racism, and more within various police departments in various states? Absolutely. But you don't solve these problems by undermining police authority. You create needless risk to your life, and you do a disservice to the office by forcing them to make tough calls. The fact that many good officers are afraid of being accused of racism, only makes it harder for those good cops to do their jobs properly.

Incidents of unwarranted police violence are rarer than the internet would have us believe, because some incidents are widely publicized even if what actually happened is incredibly ambiguous based on the footage. All this does is undermine the legitimacy of law enforcement, feeding into the attitude that resisting police instructions is a good idea. It fucking isn't. Don't do it. Viral internet videos will not solve this problem, unless they are unambiguous examples of police brutality and lawbreaking.



That's bullshit. Obviously there is an incidence rate, and it's probably higher in the US than other countries. But all the time is hyperbolic to say the least.



Why do the cops have their guns drawn on your in the first place? Are your hands up when you turned around? Did the police instruct you to turn around? Every situation is unique. Speaking in broad terms about rare incidents helps nobody.





Again, this is almost never the case. Prove me wrong. Especially you UnpopularBlargh.

Complying means making yourself as meek and non-confrontational as possible, along with following instructions *like you don't want to get shot*. I have never seen a video where any such person was shot.

There have been a couple very horrible incidents I will grant, involving people with mental health issues - but these are not evidence of the things people think they are. Mental health is poorly understood, and police procedure and training needs a lot of work. But again, non-compliance won't solve the problem.



Failure to comply absolutely is an issue; and in almost every so-called police shooting, whether touted as racist or not, there is evidence of this occurring. But you are absolutely right otherwise. Racism is an issue, albeit in select states and state departments, and in numbers that, as far as I can tell, do not exceed the per-capita incidence rate in the general population.



You have the right to a public attorney for which you do not have to pay money. You should also go to the media, and record evidence with your phone as always. Again, you don't know half the time why you are being arrested - sometimes a cop could be responding to a call about someone else, for whom you have been mistaken. Racism makes incidences of this more likely too. If they're responding to a violent suspect, they may draw their guns immediately.

I'm not going to say law enforcement are doing a good job. Far from it. But I must emphasize again that despite is other evils, Barr's advice here is sound. Resisting arrest, or failure to comply with police instructions, is stupid. We want police to be better, but if we want that, we have to better too.
First off: If it happens even on rare occasions it's not acceptable, and it's not like the police who kill people who obey are even really punished

Second: Why is it fair or ok for us to expect civilians to be perfectly calm and rational while they have a gun pointed at their face, but it's fine for trained professionals whose JOB IS TO PROTECT THE POPULACE AND DEESCALATE DANGEROUS SITUATIONS to pull the trigger at the first sign of trouble
 

Mezentine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,482
William Barr is a soulless moral monster who probably sucks Trump off on the regular. However, he is not wrong about this.



There absolutely is room for a conversation. But if the cop says no, or doesn't want to talk, that's it. Their job is to enforce the law, not debate philosophy. If they believe you have broken the law, you have the right to public legal representation. If you refuse their instructions, it's their right to arrest you for it. If you resist arrest, it's their right to use force. If they fear for their lives because of your resistance, at least in the US, that means you risk getting shot.

Are there problems with training, discipline, racism, and more within various police departments in various states? Absolutely. But you don't solve these problems by undermining police authority. You create needless risk to your life, and you do a disservice to the office by forcing them to make tough calls. The fact that many good officers are afraid of being accused of racism, only makes it harder for those good cops to do their jobs properly.

Incidents of unwarranted police violence are rarer than the internet would have us believe, because some incidents are widely publicized even if what actually happened is incredibly ambiguous based on the footage. All this does is undermine the legitimacy of law enforcement, feeding into the attitude that resisting police instructions is a good idea. It fucking isn't. Don't do it. Viral internet videos will not solve this problem, unless they are unambiguous examples of police brutality and lawbreaking.



That's bullshit. Obviously there is an incidence rate, and it's probably higher in the US than other countries. But all the time is hyperbolic to say the least.



Why do the cops have their guns drawn on your in the first place? Are your hands up when you turned around? Did the police instruct you to turn around? Every situation is unique. Speaking in broad terms about rare incidents helps nobody.





Again, this is almost never the case. Prove me wrong. Especially you UnpopularBlargh.

Complying means making yourself as meek and non-confrontational as possible, along with following instructions *like you don't want to get shot*. I have never seen a video where any such person was shot.

There have been a couple very horrible incidents I will grant, involving people with mental health issues - but these are not evidence of the things people think they are. Mental health is poorly understood, and police procedure and training needs a lot of work. But again, non-compliance won't solve the problem.



Failure to comply absolutely is an issue; and in almost every so-called police shooting, whether touted as racist or not, there is evidence of this occurring. But you are absolutely right otherwise. Racism is an issue, albeit in select states and state departments, and in numbers that, as far as I can tell, do not exceed the per-capita incidence rate in the general population.



You have the right to a public attorney for which you do not have to pay money. You should also go to the media, and record evidence with your phone as always. Again, you don't know half the time why you are being arrested - sometimes a cop could be responding to a call about someone else, for whom you have been mistaken. Racism makes incidences of this more likely too. If they're responding to a violent suspect, they may draw their guns immediately.

I'm not going to say law enforcement are doing a good job. Far from it. But I must emphasize again that despite is other evils, Barr's advice here is sound. Resisting arrest, or failure to comply with police instructions, is stupid. We want police to be better, but if we want that, we have to better too.
All of this is predicated on both an assumption of good faith acting by the police and an assumption of their complete and untouchable authority being required for any kind of execution of their duties. When all the reports about correlations between domestic violence and law enforcement, or between racism and law enforcement, or between the enactment of discriminatory political activity and law enforcement, and all the reports of how impossible it is to hold police accountable for misconduct keep coming out, it is very very difficult to buy into those two assumptions. We have the statistics on this stuff.