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Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,916
I'm a pretty hard advocate for not fragmenting your player base, but the consequence of Battlefield V abandoning Premium just isn't worth it, in my opinion. $110 is a lot more than $60, but literally everyone I know IRL who played Battlefield also bought Premium, and even though the quality wasn't perfectly consistent between updates the general consensus always seemed to be people happy with what they paid for. For myself personally, as an end user, Premium tier content updates were worth anticipating and getting excited about, and helped keep the community alive. I never once saw a lack of servers for maps.

It's hard to say the situation would be worse for Battlefield V if it had a paid Premium pack, just because if that were the case the entire development pipeline would be different and the base game would probably reflect that.

Premium was often outsourced and many of the expansions were complete write-offs. The problem is the raw playerbase numbers are not high enough to justify EA keeping a significant amount of people on BFV. EA just doesn't 'get' this new era of ongoing live games. R6 Siege has a season pass but it's not at all essential to a.) playing the game or b.) how Ubisoft treats the game from a funding standpoint.

If BFV for some reason had 5x the players it does now you bet your ass you'd see more movement on the content front.
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,916
Not even premium could help the current state of BFV....

A good-sized team of developers passionate about DICE's legacy could work at BFV and rehab it into something special. There's still a ton of $$$ potential with cosmetics and elites, plus they could bring back a hybrid of Premium where you get queue priority + some XP buffs and whatnot. The game isn't a total write off or anything, it just needs a dozen more good maps and a whole lot of bug fixing. A functioning team balancer and anti-cheat would do wonders.

The problem is that EA isn't interested in investing in a game post release at this point. They'd much rather release an unready game out into the wild, get those initial sales, turn on MTX and then move on to the next title to do it all over again. That's how you shove games like Andromeda, Anthem, and BFV out the door despite knowing they aren't anywhere near good enough or 'ready'. I am sure DICE is not happy with BFV but they don't have the time or resources to fix it up properly. EA doesn't seem terribly concerned about the damage to the franchise like they were with Battlefield 4.

Instead of the pump-and-dump, they should have 3 games running in parallel:
BF 1945
Bad Company (3)
BF 2143

Having live games would make it a hell of a lot easier to pursue new IP as well as delivering better licensed games like Battlefront.
 

Heromanz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,202
WIth my time with preuim I never had any issue every with finding a game. Like I rather have that then a micotran filed mess.
 

Deleted member 135

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,682
The entire premise of this game was flawed from the start. And I'm not talking about the cartoonish reveal trailer (though that didn't help).

The approach they took to examine the "forgotten battles of World War II" was frankly a gigantic mistake. This game should have been Battlefield 1944 off the start and should have launched with the US, UK, USSR, Nazi Germany, Italy, and Japan. At least a handful of maps for each and famous battles like D-Day, Battle of the Bulge, Kasserine Pass, Stalingrad, Berlin, Iwo Jima, Guadalcanal, Wake Island, and so on.

As well they should have kept the cosmetics authentic (not talking about having women in MP, that's great). These crazy skins and elites make the game cartoonish.
 

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,029
The entire premise of this game was flawed from the start. And I'm not talking about the cartoonish reveal trailer (though that didn't help).

The approach they took to examine the "forgotten battles of World War II" was frankly a gigantic mistake. This game should have been Battlefield 1944 off the start and should have launched with the US, UK, USSR, Nazi Germany, Italy, and Japan. At least a handful of maps for each and famous battles like D-Day, Battle of the Bulge, Kasserine Pass, Stalingrad, Berlin, Iwo Jima, Guadalcanal, Wake Island, and so on.

As well they should have kept the cosmetics authentic (not talking about having women in MP, that's great). These crazy skins and elites make the game cartoonish.

I mean...no lol. Not wanting a more predictable WW2 game I get, but fuck man you're not going to get a launch Battlefield in this day and age with six playable factions and multiple maps across several famous battles. Like it or not the production requirements for modern game content is nothing like what it was when Battlefield 1942 first launched. We see this in basically literally every game ever; maps take longer to make, assets more time to build, and it's all because of modern standards pushing for more and more detail.
 

Ostron

Member
Mar 23, 2019
1,953
I hope they'll tweak spotting even more in future games, or just do away with it for a ping instead. BFV improved nearly all the bullshit that ruined previous games. Suppression is nearly gone, random bullets are gone, clown car squad spawns is rarely an issue, no skill vehicles are almost gone, invincible out of bounds helicopters are nowhere to be seen, spotting is greatly reduced but to a point where it can be a one sided tool.

There's nothing more frustrating than knowing someone is spotting you without being able to see it or do anything about it. Previous BFs have been extremely hampered by poor spotting, but at least you knew that you were pretty much always spotted and could just drop the game to play something that wasn't bad.

Here it's very rare that an enemy team will have good consistent spotting, but when flares are going up and someone is using the aerial camera it turns into a shit tier BF and damn does it go downhill fast. Arras in particular with all that foilage suddenly doing you no good. You start getting hit from everyone everywhere and there's nothing you can do about it. Unless your own team reacts and start giving you the same advantage it will be a bad time. If your team starts spotting as well as the opponents it's just horrible old dorito-BF again.

So in a way, you can't win against spotting.

It's a poor, unfun mechanic that feels like a crutch for bad design more than anything. Hopefully private servers can ban the tools at least.
 

Deleted member 135

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,682
I mean...no lol. Not wanting a more predictable WW2 game I get, but fuck man you're not going to get a launch Battlefield in this day and age with six playable factions and multiple maps across several famous battles. Like it or not the production requirements for modern game content is nothing like what it was when Battlefield 1942 first launched. We see this in basically literally every game ever; maps take longer to make, assets more time to build, and it's all because of modern standards pushing for more and more detail.
Maybe that just shows how fucked up modern game development is? If EA gave BFV an extra year to cook they likely could have done it.

Regardless, this is anecdotal yes but myself and many other Battlefield veterans I know refused to buy BFV because of the lack of classic content. I only bought it on a deep sale after they announced the Pacific content.
 

PintSizedSlasher

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,366
The Netherlands
Came back to the game to play some Marita.
Looks nice and it stimulates my cqc gland to some degree, but also has some issues.

- visibility is going to be a huge problem. Put on your brown gear and you're nearly invisible.
- there are tons of small ledges that are perfect for our camping Support friends
- there are many places where I got stuck in the environment.
- the middle of the map is pretty choke pointy. Personally I don't mind, but I can see people having issues with this.
It reminds me a bit of Argonne forest actually.
- the castle on top of the mountain is not part of the map sadly
 

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,029
Maybe that just shows how fucked up modern game development is? If EA gave BFV an extra year to cook they likely could have done it.

I mean, maybe, but it shows how "fucked up" modern game dev is just because of the standards and time/manpower required to meet those. It's an issue that started popping up around Xbox 360/PlayStation 3 generation where hardware got to a point where the asset quality it was able to output in real time greatly eclipsed its predecessors, and a culture developed around expecting this quality from all games. What this meant is anything you made in a game required more time and effort to polish up to rendering standards, and if you couldn't meet those standards you were seen as a lesser product.

But even logistically it's a problem. Really consider how much work goes into Battlefield maps from 10 years ago versus today. How many different assets and details are in every map, how detailed those assets are, and thus how long it takes to make each of theme. It's the biggest challenge of modern game development for everyone; meeting modern standards of rendering quality and detail, having artists that can put in an enormous amount of time making sure even asset is super high poly, high quality textured, and full of detailed animations, and covering an entire game in these details which is now expected.

You can't just take a character model from Battlefield 1942, for example, and compare it to Battlefield V. Literally every single thing about them, right down to animation complexity, takes an significantly greater amount of time to realise and implement. It's why developers like Rockstar can get away with having the likes of Red Dead Redemption 2 absurdly detailed and gorgeous; fucking TONS of people working on the project, a huge amount of money invested, and lengthy development periods to ensure every single gun is meticulously modelled and animated and the horse's balls shrink in the cold.

It's just not fair to expect the same scope of content from 10 - 20 years ago in modern games, and not also account for the increased production time, manpower, and budget required to accomplish those things.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,724
USA
That's comparing $110 with $60. In an ideal world, there would be millions of willing buyers of dlc, but the reality is that if they were splitting the population here like the previous games then it would be even more dead.
Someone on Reddit had the same thought...

gafncetzmed31.png


Source
 

PeskyToaster

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,314
I like the idea of using the timeline of the war for their post launch support but I think it took a hit when the game released early and they had to finish up the base game while also taking on post-launch support.
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,916
Does anybody at DICE even give a shit about team balance? Do they not realize how absolutely toxic the current situation is?

I joined a lopsided game and waited it out, watching the scoreboard closely. We were down 6 players at round start and whatever quickmatch system DICE is using decided to add ten more players to the team that already had more. Not even an A/B alternating situation. Just straight up wouldn't give us players until the enemy team was full. This bullshit continued across 3 maps resulting in 400+ ticket blowouts every time.

I'd love to tell you how Marita is but it's hard to get a fair impression when you're playing 20 v 32.
 

Deleted member 55421

User requested account closure
Banned
Mar 29, 2019
612
Anybody here play PUBG on console? I'm curious how it compares to Firestorm on console.

I have both on xbox on x and theres something about PUBG that just feels off control wise. I always stuggle with the aiming in pubg even after playing with the settings. Firestorm feels a lot better to me. But it might also have a smaller userbase.
 

Forerunner

Resetufologist
The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
14,627
Marita is decent, I prefer it over Mercury. That being said, visibility is a huge issue for the map. There could be someone standing right in front of you and you can't see them. It's the color palette they chose to use. It makes seeing any type of brownish uniform difficult.
 
Oct 26, 2017
17,378
Marita is definitely the best Breakthrough map so far, it's giving me some BF1 Operations vibes. Visibility is a bit bad at times, though.
 
Oct 26, 2017
17,378
Decided to make a tier list for the maps in BFV, but keep in mind this is coming from someone who plays more Breakthrough than anything else and generally does not enjoy Conquest in this game (unlike other Battlefields). I tried to be as fair as possible despite almost all of these maps feeling a bit 'off' to me compared to other installments.

Instant Classic (S):
Bloody Good (A): Marita* (New but really enjoying my time with it so far, subject to change)
Solid Fun (B): Arras, Hamada, Mercury, Twisted Steel
Mediocre (C): Panzerstorm, Rotterdam
Proper Slog (D): Aerodome, Devastation, Narvik
Pure Ass (F): Fjell 652

Can't really rank Al Sundan yet and also I'll be honest, Halvøy is really well done when it comes to map design but is ruined by Firestorm. I think they could do some incredibly interesting things with it if they break the traditional mold of Battle Royal.

Also, as a side not a lot of these maps are pretty fun on Airborne (which I wish were expanded to it's own mode that incorporates multiple objectives and could be compatible with Halvøy), and there are certain chunks of the map that do work well for the smaller modes. Haven't played much Frontlines lately, but I don't even know if that has full map support.
 

mullah88

Member
Oct 28, 2017
951
As someone who only plays conquest, I love the slot of the new map. I usually browse servers and start on Arras, then Devastation (best BF5 map), Fjell (runner up, flanking on this map is bliss), Rotterdam (don't mind this one at all, just stick to Delta and Echo...Charlie if the enemy is no longer pushing) and then quit out after Narvik and server browse again. The new map slotting after Arras is definitely a plus.
 

Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,129
Chile
Panzerstorm Is pure Battlefield fun. It's like Caspian Border

Wont play Marita until sunday, but it looks good
 

elyetis

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,556
I'm so cheesing the firestorm ToW by doing it in solo Firestorm but with a friend getting on the same lobby and killing each other ( headshot, melee kill ).

I'd prefer to do it properly in Duo but sadly we are not deemed worthy.
 

ThisOne

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,938
The new map certainly looks pretty but shit, that breakthrough layout is terrible. So narrow and hectic. But not in a good way. Who honestly wants maps like this in Battlefield? Feels like a poorly designed COD map.
 

Ostron

Member
Mar 23, 2019
1,953
Marita is well... it plays nice in conquest. I continue to not understand why anyone enjoys breakthrough ever, so simple and dumb. People who enjoy it should just play Dirty Bomb or Quake Wars for a competently made attack/defend objective mode. Really wish they'd stop mixing the modes.

The map is not as stale as I thought it would be, once someone manages to cap in the back the map opens up a lot. It has a ton of issues right now though. Before they fix bad geometry hitboxes and bugged smokes (probably lighting related) it'll be kinda frustrating to play on.

I don't understand the hate for Fjell at all. It is a fun map with decent visibility and good objective routes. I've started to have a good time on Mercury now as well.

Narvik is what it is, at least the A point is enjoyable. Like Aerodrome enjoyment is inversely correlated to the amount of good enemy and bad friendly recons.

Devastation is, apart from Library, not that bad. At least bad players tend to stay away from recon on it.
 

Forerunner

Resetufologist
The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
14,627
Now that I played the map for a bit, I have mixed feelings about it. Personally, I think it is one of the best designed maps. Flag placement, the layout, and just overall design are great. However, there is one flaw to it all. The visibility is horrendous; this is easily the worst out of any map, even prior to the visibility fixes. It's a combination of a few factors. The fall setting has a ton red and brown vegetation and also the setting sun just makes it a nightmare trying to see players. I've had players just run by me completely oblivious to me and I've stepped on players because you just can't see anyone.

If the visibility wasn't so bad, this would definitely be one of the best maps in the game.


Stuff like this is good map design. It's another flanking route you can build:

lyqqko0v4id31.jpg


Levelcap just uploaded his video. TLDW: Good map, shit visibility.

 
Last edited:

icecold1983

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
4,243
the map is visually spectacular, BFV at its best is probably the best looking PC game for me.. not very well balanced tho between the factions
 

Secondspace

Member
Dec 12, 2017
378
Fjell used to have that thing where the team that spawned at A would all stop on the ridge overlooking C and try and snipe or set up an MMG and the game was lost. That does seem to have stopped. Visually the snow and rock is still pretty boring.
 

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,029
Map is fine in Conquest, but doesn't really tickle my bits. I just want more Battlefield maps like Panzerstorm, not infantry only stuff. But I knew this was going to be this way so I'm not disappointed.
 

elyetis

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,556
Map is fine in Conquest, but doesn't really tickle my bits. I just want more Battlefield maps like Panzerstorm, not infantry only stuff. But I knew this was going to be this way so I'm not disappointed.
I juge a battlefield on the amount of maps where C4/TNT jeep is a viable strategy against tank.

BFV only has Panzerstorm ( and if we are generous, Hamada ). And from what we know only Al Sundan ( no Conquest ETA.... ) might pass that test in the next couple months.

Even what I already thought was Battlechockpoint ( 3 ) had 3 map who passed that test, at release.
 

ThisOne

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,938
Map is fine in Conquest, but doesn't really tickle my bits. I just want more Battlefield maps like Panzerstorm, not infantry only stuff. But I knew this was going to be this way so I'm not disappointed.
Isn't it odd how far away they've moved from what makes Battlefield Battlefield? Big maps with lots of vehicles is one of the defining features of Battlefield imo, and BFV has very little of that. And BF1 already had little of it compared to BF4. If you want small, cramped maps with a few chokepoints and constant, frantic action, go play COD.
 

Deleted member 135

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,682
Isn't it odd how far away they've moved from what makes Battlefield Battlefield? Big maps with lots of vehicles is one of the defining features of Battlefield imo, and BFV has very little of that. And BF1 already had little of it compared to BF4. If you want small, cramped maps with a few chokepoints and constant, frantic action, go play COD.
I mean not really. At least as far back as BF2 they've had a mix. Strike at Karkand is not a big vehicle map and it's considered a series best.
 

elyetis

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,556
I mean not really. At least as far back as BF2 they've had a mix. Strike at Karkand is not a big vehicle map and it's considered a series best.
It was always a mix, but that mix repartition did change over time. For a Karkand, you had a gulf of oman; for a Mashtuur City you had a Dragon Valley.
Heck when some of those map made it to battlefield 3, they were made smaller during that transition, even karkand.

Mercury, Marita ( still time to announce that the island will become a flag with boat arrival ), infantry focused; next is likely Lofoten islands and provence which are "tailored for intimate infantry combat" ( one of wich use their freaking biggest map ever created for Firestorm.... please... that's putting salt on the wound ffs ). Then it's a reimagining of fucking metro, aka infantry choke point the map.

For all of that we ( might ) get Al Sundan at the other side of the coin.

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if the only boat we saw on the pacific was a 5v5 map happening on a boat.
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,916
I mean not really. At least as far back as BF2 they've had a mix. Strike at Karkand is not a big vehicle map and it's considered a series best.

BC2 was almost nothing but Rush styled maps and it was brilliant. Karkand is the same principle; armor must support the infantry or it will be overwhelmed. It doesn't have unbroken sightlines to camp the entire map ala Panzerstorm.

True 'conquest' maps as described like Panzerstorm are some of the worst in the entire series unless you are a huge fan of tanks and planes. An overabundance of vehicles + distance renders the class balance system pointless beyond the odd cheeky beacon. Maps like Wake only work because there are almost infinite approach angles to a linear island.

BFV badly needs a 'we're on fire' equivalent for tanks like from previous games where health will tick down unless you immediately repair. It's so infuriating to unload your entire assault arsenal on a tank only to watch them squeak away with maybe 10hp.
 

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,029
I don't agree that Panzerstorm is a bad infantry class map for Conquest which is why I continually cite it as one of the best in Battlefield V. I feel it works well for infantry precisely because DICE's change to the damage model plays far, far better with larger, paced encounters and attack/defence instead of minimal downtime between capture points. Almost all the infantry tactics and roles work just fine, because infantry is frequently spaced out enough that you're reliant on individual proximity medics/support for resupply, especially taking down armour. Arras is the exact opposite and why it's dogshit; it takes all of 10 seconds to move from one capture point to the other, the flow is broken, there's no spacing or encounter compartmentalising, and thus no highlighting of any class role or vehicle play. It's disposable chaos.

That's not to say I think bigger = better for Battlefield. I remember Battlefield 3 or 4 added what was then "the biggest conquest map in Battlefield history" with all vehicles and whatnot and it was dogshit. Size is not what I ask for. What I want is all facets of the core Battlefield design (infantry, armour, and air) operating together on a map where capturing and defending posts is the prime objective, capture points are spaced in such a way that they avoid claustrophobia and disposability, and the match feels like an organic sandbox of various battles going on at once.

Tighter conquest maps in Battlefield 1 worked fine because of the arcade, squishy nature of the damage and accuracy models. Spacing is still absolutely important but encounters are less frustrating due to the reliability on escaping damage and the fast respawns. Battlefield 1 is a quick game, snappy and explosive, and good pacing between capture points feels like a thunderous battle(s) moving around the map. Battlefield V's changes reward more paced play with exciting, deadly encounters that, once over, are rewarding for the victor as they have the advantage of time to capture a point. This is made redundant when infantry flow is so heavy that it's just a clusterfuck of explosions and gunfire all the time, with a damage model where players drop easily. DICE counteracted the poor capture point distribution in the alpha by putting a lot more pressure on attrition, making the moment-to-moment encounters more tense as ammo was actually something to consider. This nicely shifts infantry away from waves of chaos, as attention and patience are rewarded. DICE pandering to complaints and reducing attrition lead to what we got; Battlefield 1's disposable chaos wrapped in a game with more accurate guns that do more damage. It doesn't work.

As a side, I don't care that Battlefield explores other modes or that infantry is the heart of combat. I actually agree with that; if the infantry play doesn't work, nothing will. But Battlefield's identity is absolutely 100% to me the sandbox-like nature of maps that combine infantry, armour, and air in such a way that there's a quasi-strategy game element to the match flow and a sense of role playing to your classes' strength and weaknesses. Battlefield has and always will be, for me, at its absolute best when it accentuates these features and is designed from the ground up around the dance of Conquest. The moment DICE starts to backtrack and reduce the significance of this design template, usually by limiting the complexities of sandbox play, class roles, etc, is the moment Battlefield's identity dissipates and it starts to look and play like other shooters on the market.

I don't blame people for having different preferences though, because DICE has experimented with the franchise a lot of the years. Bad Company 2 is absolutely the tentpole splintering of the fanbase because it was a really, really good game that also reworked the Battlefield focus to heavily emphasis on infantry play and Rush. This has an appeal, and a market. And I get that, especially since Bad Company 2 was almost 10 years ago and fans of that game want a proper sequel. I just don't want mainline Battlefield to become Bad Company 3. It might be a great design template but no amount of arguing over how superior it is going to convince me, because it's fundamentally not the same. I've been playing Battlefield since 1942, and so the core identity of the mainline series is what I personally crave. The less Battlefield is like this, the more it spreads itself thin and detracts from the sandbox infantry/vehicle design, the less interested I am. And until there's a competitor willing to invest time and money in making essentially a Battlefield replacement that ticks all the boxes, I'm bloody stuck whining here about DICE's output :P.

EDIT: I'm so fucking sorry for this incoherent novel of a post hahaha.
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,916
I don't really buy the no true Scotsman argument re: BC2 as a massive deviation. I played a ton of 42 and the desert combat mod, infantry v vehicles simply isn't fun when the vehicles have nearly unlimited space to operate in, much less unlimited ammo and repair. The move to limit ammo was in direct response to this, but DICE just ended up creating an even more campy vehicle meta.

BC2, BF3, and BF4 had more lethal vehicles but they also had better counters, so things were a bit more even. It's not uncommon to see someone get 70+ kills in a tank in BFV, even without pocket engineers, because the balance v infantry allows for it, along with the map design. It wasn't fun to get mercilessly bombed in BF1, and it's not fun to get mobbed on by multiple tanks (especially if yours suck or get stolen) in BFV.

The idea behind Panzerstorm is that armor pushes the caps with infantry, creating an interesting dynamic. In actuality, Tigers and Archers camp their respective hillsides while the infantry generally gets fucked right in-between. Six tanks per side also limits flanking shenanigans considerably. Short of bringing an entire squad on comms with you, chances are a tank will backtrack and simply sniff you out on a cap. The church being a notable exception because infantry must snuff you out if you hide well inside. One of BFV's major failings is caps that can be stripped of cover and easily defended/dominated vs interesting caps that require teamwork.

On maps like Aerodrome, you can park on a vehicle resupply and pump shells into C to farm kills. Infantry that brave the flanks don't have enough cover to dodge snipers much less your angry gaze. Short of a V1, there's nothing they can really do about it other than avoid angles the tank can shoot. It's more or less a joke.

Hamada is the right mix - an infantry playground or two, plenty of relatively good firing positions for tanks but not enough that they dominate the entire map, and plenty of opportunities for interesting flanking maneuvers. It's essentially two fights in one map - the armor battle for A-B-D and the infantry fight for the airfield on E-F-G. It's fantastic. I also love Arras because it comes close to the same mix. The distances are small enough that tanks need to be really wary of being overwhelmed by infantry, and there's not a ton of armor on the map to begin with.

I'm happy that Panzerstorm exists for the people that like it but it needs a lot of work to be a passable infantry map. The only exciting interaction is the C-D-E fight, and mainly just C-D. The intention with the offset spawns was to give infantry a quick way to get back in the center of the fight but it just ends up rendering the other caps more or less pointless. I very rarely see backcaps on that map and fewer still are meaningful. It could be better IMO.

Moving a couple of the tank spawns to the side spawns would be a lot more interesting.
 

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,029
I don't think it's a case of "No true Scotsman", which would imply it's not Battlefield. It's still Battlefield. I just don't personally enjoy that variation of Battlefield as much as the formula rooted in 1942, because there are deviations and those are not to my personal preference. I don't necessarily think it's about vehicles having unlimited space to operate in, I also generally don't like that (although feel it mostly works on Panzerstorm). The issue I have comes down to the map design, for most part, and the overall balance between infantry and vehicles. Siege of Shanghai in Battlefield 4 was a superb Conquest map thanks to its layout and synergy between infantry and armour/air, and the strengths played by all.

You make a lot of good points though, and I appreciate the sharing your thoughts. I honestly think, and have implied in previous posts, that a lot of the issues with Battlefield V's Battlefieldness is rooted in imbalance of...everything. It's a completed vision to balance, but I really feel Battlefield V doesn't work primarily because there is a weird lack of coherency between all the pieces in play; infantry, armour, air, capture point spacing, topographical layouts, damage model, etc. Like what you've highlighted it lends itself to particular styles of play and I don't feel complement Battlefield's core design, or just don't feel like they work towards an enjoyable match flow. Flat topography alongside short spacing between capture points is a hill I'll die on as a really big problem with Battlefield V in general, and exactly why something like Hamada, that I've grown to enjoy a lot more, works better than a lot of other maps.

I just hate Arras because I feel it'd make a huge difference if it was that little bit bigger than infantry couldn't effortlessly shit sprint between capture points and circle the map. I agree that pressure is on tanks to hold the outskirts to avoid being rushed, but I just never see it. It almost never seems to matter which capture point you're going for since they're all so close.

Nevertheless, I think we can all agree more than anything Battlefield 6 needs time. A lot of time in the design room and oven.
 

Secondspace

Member
Dec 12, 2017
378
I always think BF3 is where the split is, the mad popularity of Metro 24/7 made the devs include a tribute or two in every game since. Vehicles seem pretty integral to BC2.
 
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