Battlefield V |OT| Band of Brothers and Sisters

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,337
Marita's visibility is a textbook example of how visual direction emphasising playspace asset density for the sake of realism and presentation is often counter intuitive to fun, playable design. The map is gorgeous to be sure, but so aggressive with its insane foliage density and building detail, alongside a blanketing orange-brown autumn lighting tone, that everything blends together into this weirdly over detailed homogenised mess. It's so easy to cheese locations, lose track of opponents (or even your own fucking teammates), and stumble around the map. With gunfire and explosions and all that shit it's surely gloriously cinematic and gorgeous, but fuck me does that all come at an enormous cost to playability.

Also, on the subject of map design, and something I was thinking about earlier; the emphasis on high detail maps but conventional asset reuse to save dev time has lead to what appears to me be less unique landmarks on maps and instead more repetitious structures (like buildings) placed around the map. I could be remembering things, but I swear stuff like Battlefield 3 and 4 did a much better job of making each capture point feel like its own unique landmark; reused assets of course, but also tonal differences to the landscape, topography, and a handful of major assets to keep them unique. Maps designed more like what we see now in Battle Royal games, where "this capture point is a factory, this is a silo, this is a construction site, etc. Battlefield 1 instead more often than not feels like almost every capture point is fundamentally the same kind of assets and content repeated in different layouts; "this capture is a town with 4 buildings, and this one is a town with 3 buildings that are the same but in different locations, and this one is also 4 buildings with a new layout again".

Obviously not every capture point on every map in every game is and can be totally unique, but I definitely felt like a lot more attention was given to making them aesthetically and structurally unique in BF3/4, again so they operated more like easily referenced landmarks and not just a pre-packaged location, one of a hundred, with a flag stuck in the middle.
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,055
BFV is the game
Marita's visibility is a textbook example of how visual direction emphasising playspace asset density for the sake of realism and presentation is often counter intuitive to fun, playable design. The map is gorgeous to be sure, but so aggressive with its insane foliage density and building detail, alongside a blanketing orange-brown autumn lighting tone, that everything blends together into this weirdly over detailed homogenised mess. It's so easy to cheese locations, lose track of opponents (or even your own fucking teammates), and stumble around the map. With gunfire and explosions and all that shit it's surely gloriously cinematic and gorgeous, but fuck me does that all come at an enormous cost to playability.
As the allies, looking across the C bridge... it's impossible to spot everyone. There are so many goddamn windows, bushes, head glitch level fences etc... that it's no wonder people freeze up and refuse to push. The 'alternate' middle path isn't even an alternative because it's exposed to 90% of the same firing lanes from the defenders.

The clean aesthetic of previous games was so important to make things work. To just double down on no spotting with super visually cluttered maps is awful. They should have stopped after devastation.

I half think that's why Mercury is so well-liked, as it has minimal bush wookie bullshit. It's mostly a straight up fight.
 

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,337
As the allies, looking across the C bridge... it's impossible to spot everyone. There are so many goddamn windows, bushes, head glitch level fences etc... that it's no wonder people freeze up and refuse to push. The 'alternate' middle path isn't even an alternative because it's exposed to 90% of the same firing lanes from the defenders.

The clean aesthetic of previous games was so important to make things work. To just double down on no spotting with super visually cluttered maps is awful. They should have stopped after devastation.

I half think that's why Mercury is so well-liked, as it has minimal bush wookie bullshit. It's mostly a straight up fight.
Exactly. Realistic asset density and complexity for busy visuals is absolutely fine in games where encounters are paced, deadly, and highly reliant on careful positioning and attentiveness to your surroundings. It works in a game like PUBG or, as a better example, Hunt: Showdown as encounters are less frequent and the cluttered, visually detailed maps are supposed to be used to your advantage. Every shoot out is a tense life-or-death battle where making good use of visual disorientation is a legitimate strategy, and approaching locations requires players be extremely wary of potential ambush points and alert to visual and audio disturbance cues.

Battlefield V is again none of this, yet seems to want to be. High damage, high accuracy, high reliability on game systems that seem to draw from PUBG and other military sim-lite games, yet condensed into matches and game modes that are too fucking loud and chaotic to make careful audio cues valuable (with the exception of very close range), and too fast and player dense to make careful, paced approaches and shootouts warranted.

Marita's visual design would be fine in another game, or matches with 1/3rd of the player count maybe. 32v32 conquest though? Jesus.

Also agree with Mercury. The layout is mostly fine even if it's super small, but more importantly I never feel frustrated by loss of visuals. The bright, sunny time of day cleanly lights open areas of green grass, white sand and stone, and yellow/brown soil, and character models pop very nicely on them. No cheesing in rubble. No cheesing in grass. No messy, disorientated attempts at sighting. It's very clean and clear.

I remember when Battlefield 4 beta dropped with Siege of Shanghai and one of the biggest points of praise I gave it was that it managed to build upon Battlefield 3's urban environments and form an urban playspace that felt far denser and expansive, like a legitimate city, yet retain clear, clean image quality and clarity of targets and locations. Everything contrasted nicely.
 

grandwizorb

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,651
It will forever piss me off that the best playing Battlefield was also the most content starved one. I wish we had gotten Premium.
 

Secondspace

Member
Dec 12, 2017
284
Also, on the subject of map design, and something I was thinking about earlier; the emphasis on high detail maps but conventional asset reuse to save dev time has lead to what appears to me be less unique landmarks on maps and instead more repetitious structures (like buildings) placed around the map. I could be remembering things, but I swear stuff like Battlefield 3 and 4 did a much better job of making each capture point feel like its own unique landmark; reused assets of course, but also tonal differences to the landscape, topography, and a handful of major assets to keep them unique. Maps designed more like what we see now in Battle Royal games, where "this capture point is a factory, this is a silo, this is a construction site, etc. Battlefield 1 instead more often than not feels like almost every capture point is fundamentally the same kind of assets and content repeated in different layouts; "this capture is a town with 4 buildings, and this one is a town with 3 buildings that are the same but in different locations, and this one is also 4 buildings with a new layout again".

Obviously not every capture point on every map in every game is and can be totally unique, but I definitely felt like a lot more attention was given to making them aesthetically and structurally unique in BF3/4, again so they operated more like easily referenced landmarks and not just a pre-packaged location, one of a hundred, with a flag stuck in the middle.
The whole Bond Villain lair aesthetic they had going on helped a lot with BF4, you could often get your bearings on some huge, spectacular landmark. That then lets the map actually be filled with a load of prefab buildings or huts. Operation Mortar brought in the castle on top of the hill, which became a bit too much of a staple in BF1 imo, as people thought they could somehow win by having the whole team in the castle.

Not that I'm that keen on castles, but if the one in Marita was part of the map and a bit lower, the map would change entirely. Make the bridge you can build on the bottom a road as well. I suppose it's like looking for that flanking route over the rooftop in Metro, it isn't there.
 

SG-17

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,516
Doesn't help that you can't tell classes apart by appearance anymore.
 

Forerunner

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
5,045
San Diego
We are already in August and this is supposed to be the update to the progression system. They haven't said anything about it since it was announced. Once we get closer we'll have more details! Well, we are pretty close so where are the details?
 

LoveBug566

Member
Oct 27, 2017
358
I'm looking to pick up an online shooter on the PS4 and my first plan was to give Battlefield V a shot because I like previous games in the series. What's the player base like on the PS4 right now?
 

elyetis

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,768
We are already in August and this is supposed to be the update to the progression system. They haven't said anything about it since it was announced. Once we get closer we'll have more details! Well, we are pretty close so where are the details?
Not so close since like most of what Dice release for battlefield, it will be a end of the month release ( makes for a better looking roadmap/announcement I guess... ).
 

Kotze282

Member
Oct 27, 2017
196
We are already in August and this is supposed to be the update to the progression system. They haven't said anything about it since it was announced. Once we get closer we'll have more details! Well, we are pretty close so where are the details?
It's gonna come on the very last day of August and they aren't gonna tell us shit about it until maybe the day before, as usual.
 

Serpens007

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,187
Finally got to play Marita yesterday. It sure captures how horrible must have been battling on mountains like this one lol

Anyway, got vibes to Mont Grappa, where dominance of the middle points can lead to disaster to one team. I think that this map was, sadly, made with Frontlines and perhaps Breakthrough in mind rather than Conquest. I say sadly becaue Frontline is gone as permanent mode. Anyway, I liked my time with it, but it gets old fast playing on the Marita only playlist.

I think a better way of featuring a certain map would be giving more predominance in something closer to a regular playlist. For example, besides regular conquest and breakthrough playlist, you could have a "Marita Mix" playlist, where you have one or two regular maps followed by Marita, then one or two regular maps, then Marita, etc. It helps in getting a better grasp in where it fits between the whole experience.

Overall, I did like it though, but yeah, it has issues.

Other than that... had a lot of fun playing the game last night. Maybe because I didn't played it for a week lol
 

icecold1983

Member
Nov 3, 2017
2,666
I'm looking to pick up an online shooter on the PS4 and my first plan was to give Battlefield V a shot because I like previous games in the series. What's the player base like on the PS4 right now?
Its by far the most populated version of it so that wont be an issue. That being said the game is in a pretty dire state right now
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,055
This is the latest about Al Sundan.

Shit's broke we don't know what we are doing.
At last check, it was a texture loading issue on one version of the map. How complicated is that? There must be a skeleton crew working on the game at this point.

Can't feel great to put out a WW2 game (your signature) and have it be half-baked, then not have enough resources from EA to finish it.
 

Supercrap

Member
Oct 28, 2017
905
Oakland Bay Area
At last check, it was a texture loading issue on one version of the map. How complicated is that? There must be a skeleton crew working on the game at this point.

Can't feel great to put out a WW2 game (your signature) and have it be half-baked, then not have enough resources from EA to finish it.
Firestorm textures are a bit messed up - last night we were watching some squads move across the valley and the textures weren't rendering so all we saw were the character models on crap surface
 

elyetis

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,768
Firestorm textures are a bit messed up - last night we were watching some squads move across the valley and the textures weren't rendering so all we saw were the character models on crap surface
Are you also telling me that this wasn't supposed to happen ( last week when doing firestorm ToW ) ?



Frostbite™
 

OléGunner

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,947
Think I will take a break from BFV and give Apex a go for the first time.
Marita was a short term adrenaline boost for me over the weekend but not enough to play for weeks more on end.

Just a little bit bored with the game and the general bugs/zero team balancing; which is a nightmare on servers where I'm constantly trounced by clans.
 

elyetis

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,768
Seriously. When will that shit be fixed? I've barely even seen it mentioned on Reddit when the devs comment on things.
Err, well, hmm

They might actually somehow have thought that it was already fixed in Firestorm ( which clearly, it isn't ).
Given that it's a similar problem which delay Al Sundan, one can guess that now both will be fixed at the same time.
Maybe, probably, at some point.
 

Kotze282

Member
Oct 27, 2017
196
So is it the same issue as the one in Firestorm? I just find it very odd that it is not showing in any of the E3 footage, they clearly have some version of it working.

The have called it an "artefacting" issue on some foliage in the past too, which is also bullshit because they clearly don't care about image quality, as seen on Twisted Steel and Arras.
 

Skade

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,066
Finally went back to the game after more than a month. Kinda like the new map but it seem there's a problem with the ally side on Conquest as there is ALWAYS flags E and F getting captured over and over again because it's so easy to hide in the village. As such, i've never seen the allies win any conquest round yet.

As for Breakthrough, i guess it would work better it the attacking teams where not always choke full of prone boys who don't actually try to capture the points. It seem the player base got worse than it was ealier in the year.
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,055
Finally went back to the game after more than a month. Kinda like the new map but it seem there's a problem with the ally side on Conquest as there is ALWAYS flags E and F getting captured over and over again because it's so easy to hide in the village. As such, i've never seen the allies win any conquest round yet.
If the Germans hold C, a portion of them will spawn on the E-F mountainside behind the defenders. Map designer tried to justify it as helping the map not be stagnate but it doesn't work out that way. It needs to be changed.
 

Serpens007

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,187
lol

I wonder when we'll get Al Sundan. I hope we can get a new Grand Op in Africa, as well as the Greek one.

I wonder if we'll get to OT2 before the Pacific drops. We're still pretty much feeling like in "The Phoney War"
 

Skade

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,066
If the Germans hold C, a portion of them will spawn on the E-F mountainside behind the defenders. Map designer tried to justify it as helping the map not be stagnate but it doesn't work out that way. It needs to be changed.
Didn't know that.

For fucks sake Dice ! For once, we had a Conquest map that could have a proper logical frontline but no, you had to fuck it up...
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,055
2 new (small-ish Marita style) maps coming by the end of the month + the level uncapping.

Update tomorrow to address a crashing issue and that's it.
 

HotHamWater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
277
UK
It almost as if they announced everything at E3 in an attempt to stop player bleed but don't actually have any idea when stuff will be ready...
 

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,337
Frostbite is held together with duct tape so I'm not surprised they're still having technical issues.

Yup, it's a huge ripoff and a slap in the face. A great way to treat your fans!

This was always super weird to me too. I mean, Digital Deluxe Editions in general are always a bit of a scam, but I'm a sucker so I grabbed it for Battlefield 1 and V (I think I ended up getting a really good deal on both? I don't remember). BF1's might have all been cosmetic but it felt like a pretty solid bundle. BFV's was hilariously inept.
 

Secondspace

Member
Dec 12, 2017
284
I don't understand why they haven't given the deluxe buyers an elite or a couple more unique cosmetics as a goodwill gesture, it's like they've gone out of their way to annoy people here.
 

Owlowiscious

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,405
Lol same. I honestly was not expecting to get anything other than those two junk skins and the "early access" so I'm not mad about it but I get why other people are pissed. Gotta be some of the worst value ever for a deluxe edition.
at the very least, i bought it while on sale. i don't remember hte price difference between normal and deluxe at the time, but at least it wasn't too terrible for me

but also now i've bought some bfc for elite skins

i haven't seriously played bf since bf1942 so i'm ignorant to how terrible t his game is, just playing it since my brother is playing it, so we have something to do together

i enjoythe weekly objectives, it gives me some reason to play, since i quickly fall out of games that don't have some type of progression
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,054
Just found out that the new CoD will have 64 player multiplayer with vehicles that is capable of supporting at least 100 players and every gun will have up to 30-60 different customization option that let you turn ARs into LMGS or DMRs and so on.

 

Olengie

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,086
Just found out that the new CoD will have 64 player multiplayer with vehicles that is capable of supporting at least 100 players and every gun will have up to 30-60 different customization option that let you turn ARs into LMGS or DMRs and so on.

Yeah. That reveal definitely has me tempted to switch over to CoD if BFV doesn't get its shit together by the end of the year.
 

Serpens007

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,187
Same here, hopefully it's good. Only thing Battlefield has got going are better graphics and destruction at this point.
Same, and the gunplay in BFV. But we'll see in MW. Still, I'll wait and see... if there is a company worse than EA it's Activision, but at least I know they'll support the game