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SecondNature

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,155
I don't think the FB engine excuse applies to DICE. The Frostbite team is right there, and the engine itself is tailored towards large scale shooters with simulated projectiles. It might not be the most refined thing ever tools wise but DICE basically created a large portion of it. Frostbite isn't what makes the dev team not touch combat roles since launch, or have them keeping fully finished guns floating around since the Alpha. That's 100% on leadership.

I think morale is at an all-time low and EA more or less set the conditions for them to entirely abandon the game after the underwhelming launch. I certainly do not see an effort level that represents a desire to have this game actually succeed as a live service. I see an effort level roughly in line with what I'd expect from a token gesture to replace premium for a game that nobody wants to be working on.

Any game already launched is understandably below games to be launched in the future on the developmental totem pole. Doubly true under EA. Doubled again for a game that was underwhelming and nobody wants to be a part of. Battlefront 2 is getting love because that's not EA's IP and they have a responsibility to rehab that game. BFV? They can just abandon it.

Yeah, they half-baked everything. Even combat roles wouldve been huge variants to gameplay that would've been fun. But nope.

And is it really this hard to get Rush on every map? I just dont get what's going on. I feel like there's a big story at DICE that we'll never know. I dont understand how they have completely tanked with a single game.

Meanwhile, COD is looking to do absolutely everything right.
 

elyetis

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,551
Reused assets + the same old Church building seen in Arras as central to one of the maps.
I don't mind reused assets if it was done to get us far more content than we currently do. I honestly would love to see existing maps having differents variants ( same asset, differents maps design / asset & flag placement ) within current gamemode, for the sake of increased variety, at a "low cost".
Sadly they mostly went for the even cheaper/easier alternative with temporary gamemodes where different objectives & out of bound limits is the differentiator.
 

SecondNature

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,155
I don't mind reused assets if it was done to get us far more content than we currently do. I honestly would love to see existing maps having differents variants ( same asset, differents maps design / asset & flag placement ) within current gamemode, for the sake of increased variety, at a "low cost".
Sadly they mostly went for the even cheaper/easier alternative with temporary gamemodes where different objectives & out of bound limits is the differentiator.
I dont mind it either, except when they reuse buildings the way they did. BFV lacks any kind of complex interiors. Compare this to BF4 where we had all kinds of awesome interiors.
 

elyetis

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,551
I dont mind it either, except when they reuse buildings the way they did. BFV lacks any kind of complex interiors. Compare this to BF4 where we had all kinds of awesome interiors.
Oh I agree, context matter.
I don't mind heavy asset reuse if it was to get "quick" map variants, new maps should absolutely get new asset to break the map monotony, even more so when it comes to interiors ( aren't like all the houses of mercury & marita exactly the same interior design ? ) .
This is why it's so incredibly disapointing to see that they actually already have many big assets from firestorm, unused for the core battlefield gamemodes.
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,907
I don't think it's a coincidence the "summer of nothing" happened after everything they had in the pipeline around launch dried up or was finished. The drop off the cliff felt in the last few months is a direct result of resources being pulled off the game after the disappointing launch. It doesn't get better from here.

I would not be surprised at all to learn that the 3 Pacific maps were largely outsourced to another studio inside EA, same for any needed art assets.

They just need to get to Spring, then they can start talking about Battlefront 3.
 

Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,127
Chile
Oof those videos. Watched the Jackfrags one, the guy is a massive BF fan yet always brutally honest. This is a bunch of nothing. DICE, at least say "this big thing is coming X day, in the meantime enjoy this smaller maps". Nope

Even the Flakfire video, with just the intro, sounds so depressing.
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,907
lmao that new skin style for the Breda:
rhvmbgu6hth31.png
.

Hope to god they aren't holding back weapons to put art like that on them.

If they are, banish DICE to the shadow realm and never speak of them again.
 

Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,127
Chile
Hey, at least it seems that the performance did improve with the latest nvidia patch, even on my 1060
 

Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,127
Chile
For all the talk about that they didn't do WW2 right, I like watching tons of documentaries of WW2 and I really think they nailed the visuals of the beggining of the conflict.


Sadly they also nailed the "phony war" aspect of it.
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,907
Holy shit Panzerstorm is such a goddamn awful map on breakthrough for defenders. You just sit in place and get ganked by bombers/tanks.

One MAA can't solo a bomber so people will join servers with another sweaty pilot and double up on bombers, making it impossible to take them down.

Why do I even play this...
 

Olengie

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,377
Panzerstorm as Defense is really fun when your team isn't stupid af. A moderately good team can completely stop the Offense at first point.

Also, 10 more levels till I reach Lvl 40 in ToW.
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,907
Panzerstorm as Defense is really fun when your team isn't stupid af.

Most players are incredibly dumb, on both sides. It usually comes down to the same sweaty squads I see on PC, mine included. Just lost another Arras round where the Allies capped B ONCE and half of my team (Germans) responded by camping spawn. Instant loss of any map control at that point, and thus a lost round.

Funny how capping D as the Germans doesn't produce the same effect. You could almost say it's bad map design.
 

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,029
EA is notorious for dropping shit they don't see as profitable, or if they're hit with lukewarm sales. Particularly as these days AAA blockbusters require such extensive manpower and resources that there's an all-hands-on-deck approach for major titles. Which in turn becomes more imperative off the back of a commercial failure, attempting to get the newest, better title out to the market quicker to appease shareholders before fiscal quarters hit, thus redirecting post launch support resources to newer titles. It's a vicious cycle.

Just look at Battlefields like Hardline and whatnot. Or worse, Mass Effect Andromeda. BioWare games are notorious for receiving a fair bit of post launch DLC, at least some single player shit. Mass Effect 3 in particular was a huge success, not just for the assortment of high quality single player DLC, but the surprisingly profitable (last I heard they made a fucking TON of money) multiplayer that wound up with its own large volume of free DLC. EA/BioWare pulled out of Andromeda so hard, so quickly that it didn't receive a single campaign DLC pack. Not one. It was the first mainline home console game from BioWare in over a decade to receive no post launch DLC. Jade Empire was the last one to get nothing, in 2005. And single player BioWare DLC is like...the easiest fucking money ever.

Battlefront II is probably the only game they kept supporting and I put that entirely down to obligations to Disney. Because that's money. Easier to ensure future profits and happy shareholders if your big corporate deal is followed through, and even though I still don't think Battlefront II is a very good game, the conversation surrounding it has dramatically shifted to far more positive impressions versus when it launched.

So yeah. Would be interesting to know how many people are actually actively working on on Battlefield V, and how many have been shipped off to other titles. If EA are indeed working on a "Bad Company 3" I could totally see them pulling the plug on Battlefield V, focusing almost exclusively on the former to bank on the brand name popularity, return of modern conflict, and bury the latter in a pit of forgotten titles.
 

Forerunner

Resetufologist
The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
14,573
I really don't see BF V pulling a BF 4 and becoming beloved with a lot of support. Whatever BF comes out next year is just going to kill this game. This game just has too much baggage and the sooner people forget about it the better for EA.
 

Solid Shake

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,255
Most players are incredibly dumb, on both sides. It usually comes down to the same sweaty squads I see on PC, mine included. Just lost another Arras round where the Allies capped B ONCE and half of my team (Germans) responded by camping spawn. Instant loss of any map control at that point, and thus a lost round.

Funny how capping D as the Germans doesn't produce the same effect. You could almost say it's bad map design.

Yeah I'm glad I'm not the only one that realizes most players are absolutely garbage at Battlefield. Either they have terrible gun skill, or they have zero awareness of how to play objectives.

BF5s one of the few games I can play and consistently do very well with 30-40 kill games and it isn't even hard. Then I see the scoreboard and see 20 dudes on my team went the entire match with like 5 kills.

Then I play Siege and get put in my place.
 

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,029
I really don't see BF V pulling a BF 4 and becoming beloved with a lot of support. Whatever BF comes out next year is just going to kill this game. This game just has too much baggage and the sooner people forget about it the better for EA.

That's how I feel. Battlefield 4 was a broken fucking mess at launch, but the quality of the content buried under the bugs was still good. Like, the maps were mostly pretty well designed with strong visual identity, landmarks, and conquest capture point flow. There were no core issues with visibility or anything like that. The sandbox-like nature of matches worked thanks to the large variety and volume of gadgets, weapons, and vehicles. And even if there were issues with gun balance, hit reg, bugs, and whatnot once they were crunched out they just flourished amidst the solid foundations. It was then an upward trajectory with a community that stuck by (arguably undeservingly, given how badly the game launched).

All these years later the tolerance level for bugs and broken content has dropped, and as much as I love a lot of facets around Battlefield V, I don't feel the core foundation of content (namely map design and some other goofy features) is anywhere near as impressive, consistent, or engaging as its predecessors. So I'm not sure what the hell they can do exactly to fix the situation.

Like I said ages ago, is there really any map in Battlefield V people would consider a brilliant gem of map design, a classic, and something they'd be happy to see return or modernised in a future title? I don't hate every map, but they're serviceable at best and none of them strike me as particularly well designed or memorable. They don't highlight the strengths of conquest, and have an assortment of individual topographical and visibility problems of their own.

When that very foundation of your game isn't appealing, the maps people play on, what do you really have to hold on to?

Most players are incredibly dumb, on both sides. It usually comes down to the same sweaty squads I see on PC, mine included. Just lost another Arras round where the Allies capped B ONCE and half of my team (Germans) responded by camping spawn. Instant loss of any map control at that point, and thus a lost round.

Funny how capping D as the Germans doesn't produce the same effect. You could almost say it's bad map design.

Hahahaha I can actually feel this match from the description. The moment the Allied team evidently has their shit together more than the Germans, and they nail B, you just know the rest of the match is going to be shooty shooty bang bang camping against the Allies at B from spawn. Tanks will kill farm at B and neglect making an effort to push around and back cap. Snipers will camp behind the rocks in the field. And the match will be over 0 - 450+.

And yes, capping D produces trivial results by comparison. To be fair though, as much as I detest Arras, a losing German team would have an easier time coming back if the fixation wasn't exclusively on B. They could go for A or C, or move through those and back cap, but apparently that isn't as fun as Capture Point B Shooting Gallery.

Pretty fitting they're remaking Metro for the game.
 
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Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,907
Like I said ages ago, is there really any map in Battlefield V people would consider a brilliant gem of map design, a classic, and something they'd be happy to see return or modernised in a future title? I don't hate every map, but they're serviceable at best and none of them strike me as particularly well designed or memorable. They don't highlight the strengths of conquest, and have an assortment of individual topographical and visibility problems of their own.

Maybe Rotterdam if they fix the C cap and Amiens from BF1. Even then, they're still just imitating maps that came before like Seine Crossing. Although the comparison is not totally fair, there have been many modern era games and the style of battlefield in WW1/2 doesn't always translate to the modern era. Panzerstorm in the modern era is... Heavy Metal.

They lost some serious map mojo in the transition from 3 to 4. They went from purpose-built maps for certain modes to pretty locations with modes stuffed inside. A big part of that was levolution though, so maybe it can be forgiven to a degree.

BF1 probably had it worse than BFV if we're being honest with how open those maps were and how easy it was to snipe, in combination with elite, bomber, and dreadnought bullshittery.

Given the general "let them eat cake" attitude from DICE (especially one of the level designers on twitter), I can't say I'm surprised it's gotten to this point.
 

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,029
Maybe Rotterdam if they fix the C cap and Amiens from BF1. Even then, they're still just imitating maps that came before like Seine Crossing. Although the comparison is not totally fair, there have been many modern era games and the style of battlefield in WW1/2 doesn't always translate to the modern era. Panzerstorm in the modern era is... Heavy Metal.

They lost some serious map mojo in the transition from 3 to 4. They went from purpose-built maps for certain modes to pretty locations with modes stuffed inside. A big part of that was levolution though, so maybe it can be forgiven to a degree.

BF1 probably had it worse than BFV if we're being honest with how open those maps were and how easy it was to snipe, in combination with elite, bomber, and dreadnought bullshittery.

Given the general "let them eat cake" attitude from DICE (especially one of the level designers on twitter), I can't say I'm surprised it's gotten to this point.

I felt the topographical variances and distribution of cover gave Battlefield 1 an edge in map design, versus Battlefield V's weirdly open, flat map design. Not that BF1 didn't have similar issues, but I found them less frequent thanks to structures, hills, and other junk blocking sniping from certain capture points. Sniping in BF1 was super crazy easy though, which didn't help matters.

Otherwise yeah, I agree. I still think Battlefield 4 had some gems (I'll wave a flag for Seige of Shanghai until the day I die), but the focus on map design has absolutely shifted away from hand tailored, mode specific layouts to just this weird molasses of bullshit with every mode crammed in for good measure. As we've all noted the change to how vehicles work just compounds that absent thought towards balance and structure. Map design has gone from a carefully crafted Conquest Large focus with unique points of interest and delicate balance that also allow sandbox-like approach to objectives and encounters, to a haphazard playground of stuff-to-do with little consideration towards structure and balance.

I guess we'll see how Bad Company 3 shapes up.
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,907
I felt the topographical variances and distribution of cover gave Battlefield 1 an edge in map design, versus Battlefield V's weirdly open, flat map design. Not that BF1 didn't have similar issues, but I found them less frequent thanks to structures, hills, and other junk blocking sniping from certain capture points. Sniping in BF1 was super crazy easy though, which didn't help matters.

For every Monte Grappa there was a Fao Fortress or Empire's Edge where you could see more or less the entire fucking map from multiple high ground positions you never needed to move from. The only limit was your patience for long distance shooting. Most blueberries' answer to sniper fire is to hide in cover and take pot shots back. Some of the DLC maps were just straight up abominations and spawn camps were very, very prevalent in that game. I don't miss the gameplay design of BF1, especially the awful gunplay. I do miss just about everything else about the production.

BFV feels dead and lifeless by comparison. Some more ambiance would do the game wonders.

I guess we'll see how Bad Company 3 shapes up.

EA should actually take BFV away from DICE Stockholm and give it to DICE LA, and then ask DICE LA to come up with their own name so they're not DICE anymore. Then give BF2143 to Respawn if they are up for it and want to ease into the Frostbite engine.

The message from EA being: deliver with Bad Company 3 and Battlefront 3, then maybe we'll proceed

It's possible the working theory that BC3 and BFV traded places during development is true. It would explain BFV feeling about a year's worth of production down and it not being ready in time for E3 the same way BF1 was. The subsequent morale drop over the bad trailers and controversy wouldn't have helped. Still, there's enough scuttlebutt and veterans saying their goodbyes on twitter that it's probably something else.

I don't see Battlefield as a franchise getting Andromeda'd anytime soon but DICE dun goofed and papa EA is surely paying attention.
 

Solid Shake

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,255
I honestly think it's the map design.

The maps look phenomenal, but boy they play so plainly that I'm never excited for any to pop up. The map design seems to be so infantry focused for so many maps that it's honestly just boring.

You either jump into a transport which in this game is a suicide box most of the time, or drive around in the most floaty but at the same time grounded heavy, slow as molasses tanks you've ever driven.

Maps like Devastation are too focused on the middle objective killbox. Great atmosphere for a map, terrible design that encourages zerging and playing a sick game of musical chairs in CQ.

Then you get maps like Aerodrome which are just trash. You either get a bad map or a serviceable one.
 

Moose

Prophet of Truth - Hero of Bowerstone
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,164
I watched the Jackfrags video and yeah those maps don't look great. They're only 8v8 and not large scale? Seems like a weird thing to work on when the community wanted core maps. I've never been a Metro fan and it's not like you can grind levels in the same way as BF4 so I don't see a point for that map. Pacific theater could be good but I wonder if it'll be too late at that point with Modern Warfare coming out.
 
Oct 26, 2017
17,363
Went back to BF1 today and played a match on Nivelle Nights and my god I forgot how well Dice nailed the atmosphere of the French trenches of World War I. Not only is the game still graphically beautiful to this day, but the sheer amount of effort the map shows in the recreation of the front lines in the Western Front is astounding, especially considering the attention to detail that was given to both trench lines, like how the French use gas-lit lamps and the Germans have generators powering searchlights. Everything comes together so well in the end to the point where running across No Man's Land with your squad to capture and enemy trench line or watching the silhouettes of Germans lit by the moonlight running over mounds of dirt in the distance feel so immersive. It really feels like a World War I game, and the love the team put into that game is still very much felt today.

I still hope BFV can some day give me that same feeling I got so much with BF1 with future maps, modes, and updates, and really capture the iconography of the war that makes you feel like a tourist of history, albeit in the form of a video game. I doubt the day will ever come, and it's sad that World War II will not be brought to life in the same war World War I was by the team - at least not for a long, long while. Maybe with the addition of the Pacific and Eastern Fronts will save the game, but the way cosmetics and the lack of care being given to certain aspects of the war leave me with little faith.

For all the talk about that they didn't do WW2 right, I like watching tons of documentaries of WW2 and I really think they nailed the visuals of the beggining of the conflict.

Sadly they also nailed the "phony war" aspect of it.
I think the maps and vehicles are the best done aspects of the game aesthetically, however the lack of historical context and the inaccuracies that plague the cosmetics of the game (and seem to be getting worse with this latest skin that's been revealed) really drag it down. If there were more iconic maps in-game that weight the course of the war - for example including Dunkirk as a launch map/operation (especially since many would have been familiar with the film) - would have helped, as well as the Tides of War actually living up to expectations in it's purposed exploration of the war.
 
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Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,907
I watched the Jackfrags video and yeah those maps don't look great. They're only 8v8 and not large scale? Seems like a weird thing to work on when the community wanted core maps. I've never been a Metro fan and it's not like you can grind levels in the same way as BF4 so I don't see a point for that map. Pacific theater could be good but I wonder if it'll be too late at that point with Modern Warfare coming out.

As of the next patch you can grind levels up to something like 500. And I'm sure EA will be happy to sell you an XP booster as well.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,722
USA
So I launched Origin in order to fire up the game and see if I could get the last of the ToW stuff done tonight when I realized that I just no longer cared.

It's sad we've gotten to this point.
 

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,029
Aesthetically and tonally Battlefield 1's maps are among my favourite in a shooter ever. DICE made aggressive use of colour filtering shifts and heavy particle effects to give weather changes a dramatic impact on the presentation. There's a grimey, muddy quality to so many of the maps and general "lived in" vibe to war having taken place. Mountains of artillery shells, ruined buildings, paths reduced to pits of mud, etc. Battlefield 1 maps feel like the war was raging before you showed up. Battlefield V's are sterile, like the war started when you arrived. They toned back a lot of the blanketing visual effects. Probably because of people complaining that fog/rain/whatever obscured visibility, but I quite liked it in Battlefield 1.
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,907
BFV is the first Battlefield title that I can remember that has hidden the player count from all 3rd parties. Not even Hardline hid. Says it all really.
 

Olengie

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,377
Im never going to play those small scale maps unless its a requirement for ToW.

Also the music that sets the atmosphere isnt consistent like BF II
 

Deleted member 16452

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,276
I cant believe so much focus and effort seems to be going into small scale modes/maps :(

Battlefield for me is about Conquest Large.
 

Skade

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,851
Well, i don't care about Conquest, largely prefering stuff like Rush of Breakthrough (and Airborne, i like Airborne a lot, a shame it's only available in Grand Ops) but yeah, small scales maps seem completely out of place considering why we play Battlefield in the first place.

I mean... It's in the name : "Battlefield", we want big battles.

If they really wanted maps designed for small scales modes, they could have made a regular map with one area designed to be used for smaller scales modes, like Hamada and the E/F flags area for instance. This way you get new maps for the smaller modes to make the 3 dudes playing them happy, but we still have a regular map for everyone else. A small map that can't scale up feel like a waste of work.
 

PintSizedSlasher

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,366
The Netherlands
I loved Conquest in the previous games, but somehow hate it in BFV and can't put my finger on as to why I don't like it.
And I guess I'm in the minority here, but I love TDM in BFV, so I'm actually looking forward to the smaller maps...
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,907
People on the sub mentioned they signed some deal with Sony to feature BFV in some PS run tournament system, probably what the 5v5 mode was/is for and why they persisted with maps they know the community doesn't want right now.
 

Skade

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,851
I loved Conquest in the previous games, but somehow hate it in BFV and can't put my finger on as to why I don't like it.

To me it's the fact that it's too quick and easy to capture a point with a backcap. Because of this, the other team usually doesn't have the time to come trying to defend it and thus, a huge chunk of players fight over the few points where there is actual resistance and the rest is just a bunch of people running around in circles capturing the same flags over and over again with little to no resistance. No flow, no frontline, no fun.
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,907
To me it's the fact that it's too quick and easy to capture a point with a backcap. Because of this, the other team usually doesn't have the time to come trying to defend it and thus, a huge chunk of players fight over the few points where there is actual resistance and the rest is just a bunch of people running around in circles capturing the same flags over and over again with little to no resistance. No flow, no frontline, no fun.

It should take more than 1 player to burn a cap IMO, and all squad leaders should be spawn points to decrease the instances of zerging and getting spawn camped.
 

Secondspace

Member
Dec 12, 2017
378
I loved Conquest in the previous games, but somehow hate it in BFV and can't put my finger on as to why I don't like it.
And I guess I'm in the minority here, but I love TDM in BFV, so I'm actually looking forward to the smaller maps...
It's the gun play. Half the server is usually frightened to move in BFV, you see it on the scoreboard all the time, all those people with an incredibly low encounter count. It's why games feel so empty.
 

Olengie

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,377
Man, I want to play some Operations but Grand Operations sucks in BFV. The ones we had in BF 1 was intense.
 

OléGunner

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,275
Airborne Aquarium
Can already tell player visibility will be an absolute bitch on the new map (not the Firestorm one)
I see myself being machine gunned from bushes non stop.

Also who asked for small maps?!
Also Al-soon-done when?
 

terrible

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,294
Toronto
Can already tell player visibility will be an absolute bitch on the new map (not the Firestorm one)
I see myself being machine gunned from bushes non stop.

Also who asked for small maps?!
Also Al-soon-done when?
I've played SoonDone in TDM on Xbox. Even with the smaller player count it randomly stutters to the point where you have maybe 1-2 FPS for a few seconds. If it's doing that on smaller modes RIP 64 player CQ. No clue what it's like on PC though.
 

OléGunner

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,275
Airborne Aquarium
I've played SoonDone in TDM on Xbox. Even with the smaller player count it randomly stutters to the point where you have maybe 1-2 FPS for a few seconds. If it's doing that on smaller modes RIP 64 player CQ. No clue what it's like on PC though.

I haven't played the map on TDM yet (PS4)
But yeah if its a mess on squad conquest I shudder to think how 64 player CQ would push things lol

In any case, the delay and issues surrounding the map releasing is frustrating.
I'm thirsty for more proper BF maps after Mercury, Marita was fun for a hot minute but player visibility kills it a bit
 

elyetis

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,551
I'm surprised so many people specifically complain about battlefield V conquest when it comes to back capping/solo capping, and the lack of front lines. Those things have been like that since battlefield 1942, I would actually argue that backcapping was heavily nerfed with both the fact there almost no one using planes as a taxi anymore, and transport vehicles are close to unusable except on panzerstorm and hamada.
The lack of a very defined front lines has also always been part of battlefield conquest design, and probably the very reason why there is different gamemodes who are targetting that kind of gameplay. Battlefield conquest was never trying to be Advance and Secure, and that's very much the reason why I play battlefield's conquest.
I felt the topographical variances and distribution of cover gave Battlefield 1 an edge in map design, versus Battlefield V's weirdly open, flat map design. Not that BF1 didn't have similar issues, but I found them less frequent thanks to structures, hills, and other junk blocking sniping from certain capture points. Sniping in BF1 was super crazy easy though, which didn't help matters.
I can't speak for the DLC maps, but I have to side with Avitus, sniping/long distance shooting was a plague in bf1 on many maps because of the numerous high ground positions which felt specificaly designed for them ( playing mostly hardcore made it even worst ). Mercury suffer from that same problem in bfV imho.
In itself it's not that I like mostly flat maps, but Dice is so freaking stingy when it comes to adding element to break line of sight, that it often feel more a curse to have hills in their game.
 

Secondspace

Member
Dec 12, 2017
378
Can already tell player visibility will be an absolute bitch on the new map (not the Firestorm one)
I see myself being machine gunned from bushes non stop.

Also who asked for small maps?!
Also Al-soon-done when?
I think we're at the stage where they're slowly releasing everything they have in order to have some content. They know players wanted proper maps, but they'd been experimenting with 5 v 5, so that's what we get, just shoe horned into an 8 v 8 mode. You just have to look at the cosmetics we'rte getting, it's just a jumble of content that has no relation to maps in the game.

I'm starting to think that anyone hoping for anything significant after the Pacific maps is being optimistic. I'm also getting worried about how well Underground will work. If a campaign map is that hard to move, there's no guarantee a BF4 one will be easy.
 

Secondspace

Member
Dec 12, 2017
378
I'm surprised so many people specifically complain about battlefield V conquest when it comes to back capping/solo capping, and the lack of front lines. Those things have been like that since battlefield 1942, I would actually argue that backcapping was heavily nerfed with both the fact there almost no one using planes as a taxi anymore, and transport vehicles are close to unusable except on panzerstorm and hamada.
The lack of a very defined front lines has also always been part of battlefield conquest design, and probably the very reason why there is different gamemodes who are targetting that kind of gameplay. Battlefield conquest was never trying to be Advance and Secure, and that's very much the reason why I play battlefield's conquest.
I can't speak for the DLC maps, but I have to side with Avitus, sniping/long distance shooting was a plague in bf1 on many maps because of the numerous high ground positions which felt specificaly designed for them ( playing mostly hardcore made it even worst ). Mercury suffer from that same problem in bfV imho.
In itself it's not that I like mostly flat maps, but Dice is so freaking stingy when it comes to adding element to break line of sight, that it often feel more a curse to have hills in their game.
I felt that the sniper perches were quite deliberate in BF1 - that rocky outcrop on Sinai, the roof on Ballroom and all of those castles - annoying, but intentional. In BFV it feel more like an accident caused by using maps for multiple modes. They can't have meant for players to have stopped before they reached a flag in Aerodrome, Mercury and Hamada.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,960
So we are going to wrap up all the way to Pacific with only a Panzer IV and Valentine variants added to Brits/Germans... The entire class-spec system hasn't been touched up ever since release.

FUCKING JOKE, and we are the butt.
 

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,029
I'm surprised so many people specifically complain about battlefield V conquest when it comes to back capping/solo capping, and the lack of front lines. Those things have been like that since battlefield 1942, I would actually argue that backcapping was heavily nerfed with both the fact there almost no one using planes as a taxi anymore, and transport vehicles are close to unusable except on panzerstorm and hamada.
The lack of a very defined front lines has also always been part of battlefield conquest design, and probably the very reason why there is different gamemodes who are targetting that kind of gameplay. Battlefield conquest was never trying to be Advance and Secure, and that's very much the reason why I play battlefield's conquest.

I didn't think that was what people were complaining about. The open ended nature of conquest allowing for stuff like back capping and solo caps is what I like about conquest too. My argument is that Battlefield V's maps poorly support a flow between capture points wherein capturing a point feels like an accomplishment that can drastically change the flow of battles. Which I guess could be described as the "front line", but I feel there are many front lines and that is still abstract and multifacted.

My issue with Battlefield V's maps is that I don't feel they're designed in such a way that capturing points feels like an accomplishment that will change the flow of battle. It often feels like a random assortment of capture points that are largely irrelevant and disconnected from other capture points, with little consideration for strategic advantage based on location, and instead just there to be captured.

That, to me, is bad conquest map design. Capturing a point should feel like a big deal, not a weird hodgepodge of king of the hill for tickets. Where capturing provides the team with a new spawn point to better assault certain other capture points and/or offers key strategic advantages based on topographical positioning and access to vehicles. Battlefield V tries to do these things, but I feel largely very poorly. The maps instead feel like aimless sandboxes.

I can't speak for the DLC maps, but I have to side with Avitus, sniping/long distance shooting was a plague in bf1 on many maps because of the numerous high ground positions which felt specificaly designed for them ( playing mostly hardcore made it even worst ). Mercury suffer from that same problem in bfV imho.
In itself it's not that I like mostly flat maps, but Dice is so freaking stingy when it comes to adding element to break line of sight, that it often feel more a curse to have hills in their game.

I suppose that's where I generally disagree, not that Battlefield 1 didn't have problems with line of sight, but I definitely feel Battlefield V is a lot worse. The only reason I criticise the flap topography as I feel varied topography is an easy way to break line of sight and keep capture point locations separated and interesting before cover and other assets are added. But the latter is just as essential, which BFV also lacks.
 

Skade

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,851
I'm surprised so many people specifically complain about battlefield V conquest when it comes to back capping/solo capping, and the lack of front lines. Those things have been like that since battlefield 1942, I would actually argue that backcapping was heavily nerfed with both the fact there almost no one using planes as a taxi anymore, and transport vehicles are close to unusable except on panzerstorm and hamada.
The lack of a very defined front lines has also always been part of battlefield conquest design, and probably the very reason why there is different gamemodes who are targetting that kind of gameplay. Battlefield conquest was never trying to be Advance and Secure, and that's very much the reason why I play battlefield's conquest.

I never really was a fan of Conquest in other modes to begin with but my feeling is that in older games, you actually had people defending on back caps, you had time to rush to defend a point once you saw someone starting to cap it, you often had people staying on the far away points like those who played LAVs 24/7, i suppose also the mortar guys, etc etc. Back-caps had resistance, actual fights going on, so it was harder to flip them.

In V, flags flip ALL THE TIME apart from the main contention points, it's too quick to cap and almost nobody ever stay on point to do something even vaguely usefull. There's no mortar or LAV (or at least used as AA) and the snipers would rather hide in a bush away from anything than staying on a flag. And so, either you focus on back-capping the enemy team and you barely shoot anyone, you try to defend flags from back-caps but you are usually alone against 4 or 5 dudes and die all the time or you just dive in the melee in the center flags where everyone is fighting and don't give a fuck about anything else.

I know that conquest is not about a proper "frontline". What i was saying as the lack of a "frontline" in BFV is the lack of logical flow in the battle. Most of the time, it devolves into one or two flags in the middle of the maps that barely ever change ownership as there's too many people fighting over them to easily cap and the other flags that are just flickering endlessly between colors without rime or logic, like a fucking christmas tree. It's just a chore to play.
 
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