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terrible

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,294
Toronto
Pretty good video, but it's getting quite a bit of dislikes. I don't agree with everything he wants to implement, but it would be better than what we have.


From the perspective of someone that prefers the pace of BF3, BF4, and BF1 he's correct. Honestly I would go even further and just make the MMGs big mag inaccurate ARs like in BF4. A complete retooling of how they work. That combined with removing attrition and fixing visibility and sound bugs would get me addicted to battlefield again.

For those that like the current BFV slower style of play obviously these changes would all be awful lol.
 

Forerunner

Resetufologist
The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
14,542
Personally, there are three things I'd do to fix MMGs.

You shouldn't need to bipod if you're using a ledge or something you can use as support. The bipod system is still clunky, so this would help with players trying to play more aggressively. Being able to instantly ADS under those conditions would be ideal.

They need to do something about the recoil and accuracy. These things are lasers and all you have to do is hold LMB and get easy kills. If you have ever qualified on an mg, you know you should be using bursts. This game rewards player just holding down as long as possible because the overheating mechanic doesn't really discourage it. If you're just holding down the trigger you should get a significant accuracy reduction and it should overheat faster.

MMGs need some type of movement penalty. For instance, a reduction in sprint speed.
 

Kal Shintar

Member
Dec 11, 2018
322
Oh, Look it's Levelcap whining about something that gets in the way of his preferred play style and therefore wants nerfed or changed.
 

Ostron

Member
Mar 23, 2019
1,942
I feel like anything that makes MGs slower or more cumbersome to use would just make camping more viable. I only play conquest so MGs are never really a problem at all. They only spoil games in the same way that bad recons do by not contributing anything on some remote part of the map. There are a few points where they are especially obnoxious, like C on Rotterdam, but that's more down to bad map design.

There are so many ways to get around MGs on conquest maps. Always a way to flank, smoke them out, blow them up, move in a tank or whatever. The problem in my opinion is that they are pretty much useless. If they had spotting maybe I'd see a reason to run one but I doubt it.
 

Tackleberry

Member
Oct 31, 2017
4,827
Alliance, OH
Did they nerf the fighter planes?

I was on Hamada last night and accidentally picked a fighter plane (normally a bomber) and it took FOREVER to bring down an enemy bomber.
I scored north of 300 points just in damage, without it going down.. or even a threat of it going down.
 

Forerunner

Resetufologist
The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
14,542
Did they nerf the fighter planes?

I was on Hamada last night and accidentally picked a fighter plane (normally a bomber) and it took FOREVER to bring down an enemy bomber.
I scored north of 300 points just in damage, without it going down.. or even a threat of it going down.

The last update fucked the bullet registration. So, a lot of hits aren't counting.
 

Forerunner

Resetufologist
The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
14,542
It was giving me the points, but it wasnt doing a damn thing for damage.

i chased this jerk around the map for about 5-10 minutes shooting him

There is also a bug where hitting the tail area doesn't count for damage. So you have to be hitting the fuselage for any meaningful damage.

Pretty much air combat is fuck this patch.
 

Forerunner

Resetufologist
The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
14,542
I'm a hypocrite. 🤷‍♂️

stormchaser.png


The skin looks really good with the Stormchaser coat.
 

Olengie

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,377
Had a great match on Hamada as a tank. Took down about 5 tanks while defending C point with the help of my squad who were playing as support. Then there was server disconnected.
 

Ostron

Member
Mar 23, 2019
1,942
I can't say I agree with that. He presents good arguments and goes in depth with his discussions and thinking. I prefer him to the majority of the other BF content creators.
Speaks more to the dearth of BF content creators. Levelcap is lucky if he manages to be concise for 2 minutes before he starts to go in circles to reach the 10 minute mark and checks out. Click-baity and just as reactionary as the player-base as a whole.

Ji3A3 puts in work and provides genuinely useful content. FabianChills is the best for entertainment IMO. Other than that it's a bunch of guys regurgitating reddit, and a lot of them didn't come out of the reveal debacle in a good light.
 

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,026
I just don't think there's an MMG problem. Yes, there's issues with people camping in rubble and using MMGs, but camping is inherently a problem with Battlefield full stop and I don't know if there's a solution without disrupting the game design and map objectives to deter camping and transforming the metagame into something Battlefield isn't known for. I think we need to be careful when we criticise metagame in games like Battlefield that we're not just complaining about a style of play that is valid, just because it annoys us and disrupts our own. It's like when people whine about classes not being about to do X or Y, when uniformity between classes is not only extremely difficult but basically makes having classes redundant. Strengths/weaknesses to loadouts, classes, and style of play is the entire point of a game like Battlefield. Players need to play to their strengths, not their weaknesses, and accept when they've been bested or haphazardly handled a situation.

With MMGs and camping the core issue is in the visual busyness and asset density of maps, visibility of players, and accuracy of the guns. All combined it creates scenarios where campers aren't so much carefully defending, as exploiting the terrain to clip through objects or remain so obscured and hidden that they have an advantage not through strategic use of game systems but exploitation. And contributing to this problem is Battlefield V's incoherent design, where it doesn't know if it wants to be an arcade run and gun shooter or a hardcore military sim.

I don't mind LevelCap, I just find his criticisms of the game too frequently drop into the former observation; upset the game he's playing doesn't fully accommodate or compliment his specific style of play with little consideration for the broader strokes of a Battlefield Conquest sandbox environment. He's notorious for whining about tanks for this exact reason, because it disrupts his Call of Duty run-and-gun kill streaks and they're too hard to kill and annoying and other bullshit. It's no surprise his suggestions for the MMGs steer it away from being a defensive weapon with limited mobility. His idea of Battlefield is constant infantry focused run-and-gun play, and the reality is this isn't Battlefield no matter how much he likes it. The usefulness of defensive play in Conquest is evident when one team is doing it and the other is not. It's part of the formula.

But yeah, I just don't think there's an inherent MMG problem. Almost all of Battlefield V's balance problems tie back to other issues. MMGs a problem because of bipods? No, it's because of the damage model, player visibility, and cluttered level design. It's like saying high powered snipers are a problem, because the approach for these players is exactly the same as MMG camping; camp with a high powered rifle, only over an even longer distances, and pick off targets. The issue isn't the rifles, nor the class. The issue is the flat, open topography of most of the maps making this role too easy and flexible to play.

"Tanks are too powerful in Battlefield 1". They weren't, ever. Players just fucking sucked at trying to kill them.
 

Forerunner

Resetufologist
The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
14,542
My issues with MMGs there are really no serious drawbacks to them in this game. In other games that feature them, I have no issues with them because they are balanced. BF V's MMGs are the lowest skill ceiling weapon with insane damage output. The largest drawback to MMGs in this game is the fact that you can't ADS. It sounds like a huge drawback, but in reality, it isn't due to how the game is designed. Subpar visibility means you can pretty much camp anywhere and get kills with little effort. The high dps means you can win in CQC just hip firing and at range you have insane accuracy with barely any recoil. There are no other weapons in the game that give you a huge magazine, the highest dps possible, and are extremely easy to use. That's my problem with them. If I get killed by a sniper. Whatever, the guy is a good shot, good for him. When I get killed by some MMGer that you can't even see that is just spraying in your general direction, it's frustrating. Of course some people will just be like; oh you have to play smarter. Playing smart has nothing to do with it. The DPS from MMGs barely gives you enough time to react before you are deleted.

I understand why players use them. This game has a lower TTK than other BFs, plus when combined with the visibility, they are less likely to move as much. So if you're staying put more, you might as well use the weapons that give you the highest dps with the least amount of effort. I know it'll never change. If DICE had an issue with them, they would have changed them by now, but they haven't and won't. There is already a huge backlash if you say they need some fixing. Some players don't want their easy guns fixed. Players enjoy feeling powerful, that's the whole point of video games with power fantasy. Look at all these players I can mow down! I'm so good.

Then I have to remember, while this game is supposedly competitive, it's not; it's as casual as you can get. It is just chaos. MMGs are banned in the competitive scene for a good reason. However, we aren't playing in a competitive scene, so whatever.

TLDR: I need to stop taking the game so seriously and let everyone use whatever they want.
 
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dm101

Member
Nov 13, 2018
2,181
I just don't think there's an MMG problem. Yes, there's issues with people camping in rubble and using MMGs, but camping is inherently a problem with Battlefield full stop and I don't know if there's a solution without disrupting the game design and map objectives to deter camping and transforming the metagame into something Battlefield isn't known for. I think we need to be careful when we criticise metagame in games like Battlefield that we're not just complaining about a style of play that is valid, just because it annoys us and disrupts our own. It's like when people whine about classes not being about to do X or Y, when uniformity between classes is not only extremely difficult but basically makes having classes redundant. Strengths/weaknesses to loadouts, classes, and style of play is the entire point of a game like Battlefield. Players need to play to their strengths, not their weaknesses, and accept when they've been bested or haphazardly handled a situation.

With MMGs and camping the core issue is in the visual busyness and asset density of maps, visibility of players, and accuracy of the guns. All combined it creates scenarios where campers aren't so much carefully defending, as exploiting the terrain to clip through objects or remain so obscured and hidden that they have an advantage not through strategic use of game systems but exploitation. And contributing to this problem is Battlefield V's incoherent design, where it doesn't know if it wants to be an arcade run and gun shooter or a hardcore military sim.

I don't mind LevelCap, I just find his criticisms of the game too frequently drop into the former observation; upset the game he's playing doesn't fully accommodate or compliment his specific style of play with little consideration for the broader strokes of a Battlefield Conquest sandbox environment. He's notorious for whining about tanks for this exact reason, because it disrupts his Call of Duty run-and-gun kill streaks and they're too hard to kill and annoying and other bullshit. It's no surprise his suggestions for the MMGs steer it away from being a defensive weapon with limited mobility. His idea of Battlefield is constant infantry focused run-and-gun play, and the reality is this isn't Battlefield no matter how much he likes it. The usefulness of defensive play in Conquest is evident when one team is doing it and the other is not. It's part of the formula.

But yeah, I just don't think there's an inherent MMG problem. Almost all of Battlefield V's balance problems tie back to other issues. MMGs a problem because of bipods? No, it's because of the damage model, player visibility, and cluttered level design. It's like saying high powered snipers are a problem, because the approach for these players is exactly the same as MMG camping; camp with a high powered rifle, only over an even longer distances, and pick off targets. The issue isn't the rifles, nor the class. The issue is the flat, open topography of most of the maps making this role too easy and flexible to play.

"Tanks are too powerful in Battlefield 1". They weren't, ever. Players just fucking sucked at trying to kill them.
You are very well written/spoken and you have excellent points.
I enjoy the mmgs not to exploit, but to use the terrain for cover. I do this with all classes.
 

dm101

Member
Nov 13, 2018
2,181
My issues with MMGs there are really no serious drawbacks to them in this game. In other games that feature them, I have no issues with them because they are balanced. BF V's MMGs are the lowest skill ceiling weapon with insane damage output. The largest drawback to MMGs in this game is the fact that you can't ADS. It sounds like a huge drawback, but in reality, it isn't due to how the game is designed. Subpar visibility means you can pretty much camp anywhere and get kills with little effort. The high dps means you can win in CQC just hip firing and at range you have insane accuracy with barely any recoil. There are no other weapons in the game that give you a huge magazine, the highest dps possible, and are extremely easy to use. That's my problem with them. If I get killed by a sniper. Whatever, the guy is a good shot, good for him. When I get killed by some MMGer that you can't even see that is just spraying in your general direction, it's frustrating. Of course some people will just be like; oh you have to play smarter. Playing smart has nothing to do with it. The DPS from MMGs barely gives you enough time to react before you are deleted.

I understand why players use them. This game has a lower TTK than other BFs, plus when combined with the visibility, they are less likely to move as much. So if you're staying put more, you might as well use the weapons that give you the highest dps with the least amount of effort. I know it'll never change. If DICE had an issue with them, they would have changed them by now, but they haven't and won't. There is already a huge backlash if you say they need some fixing. Some players don't want their easy guns fixed. Players enjoy feeling powerful, that's the whole point of video games with power fantasy. Look at all these players I can mow down! I'm so good.

Then I have to remember, while this game is supposedly competitive, it's not; it's as casual as you can get. It is just chaos. MMGs are banned in the competitive scene for a good reason. However, we aren't playing in a competitive scene, so whatever.

TLDR: I need to stop taking the game so seriously and let everyone use whatever they want.
Good points as well. I like all the weapons, but mmgs are some of my favourite not because I'm not a good player, but because I have fun with them. And fun is why I play BFV and all video games for that matter.
 
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PintSizedSlasher

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,366
The Netherlands
Don't know if it has anything to do with the delay of Al Sudan large, but the performance on the small map is horrible.
Other maps are fine, but on Al Sudan I get huge frame drops.

And I have to come back from my initial praise for the map, I t's actually a pretty boring map if you played it a couple of times.
And it's pretty obvious that it originated from a SP map, you can't even jump through the windows cause they're too small... 😑
 

Forerunner

Resetufologist
The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
14,542
As much as I don't like them, I will say the S2-200 is a well designed weapon. It clearly has strengths and weaknesses. All the other MMGs play similar to each other.

The spec tree needs work though. Incendiary rounds makes little sense. If you're bipod, you're not going to be looking up at the sky at aircraft. So, that means you'll be hip firing and you'll need a lot more round than 30 to score any meaningful damage since you're going to be missing.
 
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Owlowiscious

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,473
This week's gun is my new fav. I'm going to gold it out I like it so much.
can a crappy player as myself get multikills? can I get enough for the mission? if so, how?

or should I not expect to be able to complete that objective with my skill level?

this is all moot, since i probably won't play until after the weekly ends in less than 20 hours, but I'm still curious about what I could have done.
 

Forerunner

Resetufologist
The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
14,542
can a crappy player as myself get multikills? can I get enough for the mission? if so, how?

or should I not expect to be able to complete that objective with my skill level?

this is all moot, since i probably won't play until after the weekly ends in less than 20 hours, but I'm still curious about what I could have done.

Unless they changed it, you can just farm the AI in Combined Arms to complete it.
 

dm101

Member
Nov 13, 2018
2,181
So I just jumped into a round where I couldn't kill any of the baddies. I emptied entire clips...

Well, that's a new one.
 

Ostron

Member
Mar 23, 2019
1,942
Combined Arms hasn't been tracking anything for me since the patch. :D

Not even weapon progress. Not that it really matters.
 

Forerunner

Resetufologist
The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
14,542
I warmed up to the S2-200 a lot. It's a pretty fun gun. Getting the muiltkills with it isn't difficult. Best advice is to focus hip-fire it more. You can actually push out the range a lot more than you'd think. Plus the skin looks good.

s200.png
 

Deleted member 135

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,682
I just don't understand why Battlefield of all of the big AAA MP games has such recurrent issues with stability and bugfixing. It's been an ongoing issue for a decade now.

Is it Frostbite? I feel like its Frostbite.
 

Skade

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,832
Games putting rarities on items like this always makes me laugh, like how the fuck do you define what dirt texture is common and which is epic? The shade of brown? The amount of dirt? It's so weird

I suppose it's more about the shape of the dirt. I guess. But this one sucks balls.
 

Skade

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,832
Pretty sure there was stuff like this in the original trailers and screenshots, but I think DICE removed them after the "MUH HISTORICAL ACCURACY" bullshit

They are probably just holding them back for the Muricans. That's at least what i was thinking until last week where we got GI uniforms to unlock. So... I guess we'll have that to buy at some point.
 

PintSizedSlasher

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,366
The Netherlands
I don't even notice most of the customizations on other players. Sure, outfits are noticeable, but face paint and weapon skins? Most of the time I'm so focused on putting a few bullets into their cranium, that I don't see them.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,960
Combined Arms hasn't been tracking anything for me since the patch. :D

Not even weapon progress. Not that it really matters.

I got my new MG double-kills on bots.

So I just jumped into a round where I couldn't kill any of the baddies. I emptied entire clips...

Well, that's a new one.

Terrible pilot, terrible shooter. You need to land the bullets to kill someone, not just empty the clip.

But seriously, I don't think that I ran into this issue, it is kind of L2P category if I miss shots that were definitely supposed to land. Predator camo's, on the other hand, they roam the field.

Pretty sure there was stuff like this in the original trailers and screenshots, but I think DICE removed them after the "MUH HISTORICAL ACCURACY" bullshit

It is a funny story because the robot arms were never meant for multiplayer, not there is any story regarding those characters.

I will go on the limb and say that the limited customization that we have is a technical/manpower issue. The character-customization is god damn poor in this game: several faces, no hair, no accessories. Even the limited Division 1 customization was miles better with facial features, hair, tattoos, shades and hats. And Division 1 kind of adopted cosmetic microtransactions one year down the line...
 

dm101

Member
Nov 13, 2018
2,181
I was on the ground and shot three enemies at point blank range and nothing. Ps, I'm a pretty good shot. I just hit 4.50 kd yesterday woo hoo.
 

Tokyo_Funk

Banned
Dec 10, 2018
10,053
Pretty sure there was stuff like this in the original trailers and screenshots, but I think DICE removed them after the "MUH HISTORICAL ACCURACY" bullshit

There were a lot of "Historical accuracy" crybabies who thought the Indian face paint, the leather masks and the sniper camo did not exist, even though they're everywhere on collectors sites.

Ww2-German-Army-Wehrmacht-Snipers-Camo-Face-Mask.jpg


images


Don't get me started on the prosthetics. Lots of people saying "Robo lady" and "Cyborg" over a hinged prosthetic from the time.
 
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