BATTLETECH |OT| Kill the meat, save the metal

[Laiza]

Heavier mechs are always going to be the way to go, so it's best you divest yourself of any notion that that will ever change right now.

Worth noting that LRMs were great not for their damage per se, but because they had both damage and incredible stability damage, making them absurdly efficient. Now that stability damage has been dramatically nerfed across the board, they're really just good for their damage/ton, which isn't that bad considering how literally every other weapon (bar medium and small lasers) got a buff of some kind. Still not sure this is enough to oust SRMs from their place at the top of the heap (especially since SRM2s and SRM6s BOTH got a heat reduction), but at least now I might actually think about doing configurations that aren't just endless macross missile massacres.

Large lasers in particular got out really strong with this patch. Going from 30 to 18(!) heat is a HUGE buff. They may just end up being a new mainstay of my forces.

Still never using PPCs, however. Awful damage/heat, and the accuracy penalty to the target is "eh" at best. Don't understand why they insist on gimping this weapon.

 

[Wrenchfarm]

Wow, interesting changes!

Really discouraging knock downs. Seems smart, I know a common strat was to just boat a ton of LRMs with stability +s and knock every mech flat on its ass. Effective, but boring. I think it is a good change to make people have to work for that a little more.

Lol on LLAS heat being almost halved. Now they might even be useful!

 

[PanzerKraken]

The changes are all good, just worry a little if they nerfed heat too much on some of those energy weapons. And really dont think the SRM's needed a nerf on their heat either. SRM boating is amazing already.

Heavier mechs are always going to be the way to go, so it's best you divest yourself of any notion that that will ever change right now.

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For the campaign as it is, of course. The game needed more varied objectives that needed speed and promoted movement. Also unlike the table top game, mobility in this game is not that restrictive. One of the biggest advantages lights are supposed to have is how much more maneuverable they are. The terrain rules in this video game are not strict enough, and the line of site rules also ignore so many important factors and magically shoot through so many objects. Lights are supposed to be terrain masters that get everywhere and constantly are popping in and out of cover, while heavy units slowly struggle. Terrain is not as effective in this game so lights lose much of their usefulness.

 

[CampFreddie]

I might have to remove most of my mods now. Though I might keep the buff I made to evasion (15% per pip) and sensor lock (also removes guard to make bulwark less of a God mode button).

 

[Tebunker]

The changes are all good, just worry a little if they nerfed heat too much on some of those energy weapons. And really dont think the SRM's needed a nerf on their heat either. SRM boating is amazing already.



For the campaign as it is, of course. The game needed more varied objectives that needed speed and promoted movement. Also unlike the table top game, mobility in this game is not that restrictive. One of the biggest advantages lights are supposed to have is how much more maneuverable they are. The terrain rules in this video game are not strict enough, and the line of site rules also ignore so many important factors and magically shoot through so many objects. Lights are supposed to be terrain masters that get everywhere and constantly are popping in and out of cover, while heavy units slowly struggle. Terrain is not as effective in this game so lights lose much of their usefulness.

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I was honestly hoping for more missions that valued a varied lance build out. It just didn't seem like the game was designed and built around that. I like to call it the Home Run rule or the Car Wreck rule. Sports fans like to see Home runs or wreck in racing. In video games people like to go big and blow stuff up.

It is clear a lot of the game is designed around that philosophy. Hell it is probably why I was able to snipe a King Crab when I got the Highlander and was full big heavies even before then.

But what pains me is that they go to lengths to explain roles of mechs and then you never really need it. I can just launch with two-plus assaults and like an Orion or a Missile Boat and be okay 90% of the time because I am just bigger than everyone.

I want to truly have a designated brawler, long range, scout etc. I feel like Mechcommander did those roles well because the missions were longer and it was an rts. Granted those games had other issues. I still miss my days of using ECMs and jams and having to actually sneak a Heavy or Assault class in to an area without being scene. So you woukd take painful steps to build a lance to do that stuff.

Still love the game. Trying to think how I going to battle now that mechs are more stable. Probably switch to more SRMs and definitely LLasers. Maybe really push for a good melee mech now with full armor, jump jets and all close range hitters

 

[PanzerKraken]

A lot of things could have been added detail wise to support more lance variety, such as terrain and piloting checks also. Moving through different terrains at high speeds should require pilot checks like in the table top. Assaults should be easier to hit, harder to hide in cover cause of their sizes, have harder time with terrain, etc. Lot of details are missing in this game along with simplistic objective in most missions to be "blow up X".

At same time, the table top game is flawed, has been for decades but outside of very minor tweaks, the fans would scream bloody murder if they attempted to overhaul the game at all, so many of it's flaws will never be fixed. Outside of a point filler in battle value games, so many just ignore light mechs entirely when possible.

 

[Wrenchfarm]

At same time, the table top game is flawed, has been for decades but outside of very minor tweaks, the fans would scream bloody murder if they attempted to overhaul the game at all, so many of it's flaws will never be fixed. Outside of a point filler in battle value games, so many just ignore light mechs entirely when possible.

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Thanks for mentioning this. While I agree that it would be nice to see missions that encouraged mixed drops and rewarded different mech roles, the architecture of the BattleTech world puts a limit on how much can be done. Tonnage counts, and the ability to wear more armor, bring heavier guns, and fire them more often will usually out weight more situational advantages like speed or versatility given the rules of the game.

 

[Tamanon]

Light mechs only make sense in an actual battle where recon is important. In games, they effectively just exist to give you an amateur mech.

 

[BlackJace]

Amazing changes, especially regarding heat generation for weapons. Some were downright useless since the heat generation made them unwise to actually use in any non-polar environment.

 

[Shake Appeal]

That change log is insane, but I'm deep into Deadfire right now, so I can wait for the full release, in case there's more balance tweaks to come.

The only thing I see missing is a Randomize Starting Pilots option. I didn't lose any of the starting crew in my first and only save to date, and that was playing Ironman. I'm sick of their faces and would like to have only my own custom pilots.

 

[PanzerKraken]

Light mechs only make sense in an actual battle where recon is important. In games, they effectively just exist to give you an amateur mech.

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The way difficulty scales (which essentially is just increasing the amount of enemies and tonnage of them), lights will never have any use for campaign play outside of being starter units. The scenarios are not realistically done for a single lance as your enemies keep getting bigger and larger in size, the only way to compete is to just make your lance bigger itself. If we could have multiple lances, or missions were more designed around objective play than simply fighting, they could have some utility here and there. Even in the lore there is many restrictive reasons given for various units to be available or taken for specific missions, but there is a lack of variety in this game on mission design.

 

[siteseer]

i just hope they reintroduce some 1-3 skull missions, i would love to take some light-med 'mechs out of storage and run contracts with them. i don't care what justifications they use, but i haven't had much fun post game, just assault fights after assault fights.

 

[BlackJace]

So, as advertised, the front end menus are way snappier in the beta patch. I'm getting smooth transitions in between menus, and the QOL changes to the Mech Bay are great.

However, the loading times to get into missions are still horrendous.

 

[Deleted member 2507]

Aand KS update, about the 1.1 update being out.

Also looks like backers are getting Stellaris Steam key as a bonus.

 

[SRG01]

Why did they drop heat on all/most weapons rather than just energy? Wouldn't everyone just stay with missiles still?

 

[Deleted member 2507]

We've wondered about that. But there was sort of a stealth-nerf to missiles: Stability damage required to knock down heavy and assault 'Mechs was increased significantly. Presumably the idea is that it is now more about slugging it out (ideally smartly) than just knocking down enemies.

 

[PanzerKraken]

Why did they drop heat on all/most weapons rather than just energy? Wouldn't everyone just stay with missiles still?

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The called shot nerf and stability changes are mainly nerfs to missiles. The heat changes are to try and promote people to take energy builds since everyone was just missile boating up the game.

Don't think missiles needed heat nerfs but believe since they nerfed all the energy weapons they needed to reduce the heat on missiles to compensate as some of the energy values were being made equal or close to missile heat generation and that doesn't make sense.

 

[Vela]

HOLY SHIT: Some *very* very very good news about the Harmony Gold case:

Pursuant to Fed. R. Civ. P. 41(a)(1)(A)(i-ii), Plaintiff Harmony Gold U.S.A., Inc.
("Harmony Gold") and Defendant Piranha Games Inc. ("Piranha") hereby stipulate to dismissal of
the above-captioned action with prejudice (for the avoidance of doubt, this includes dismissal of
all claims against defaulted defendant Inmediares Productions, LLC). The parties further stipulate
that all costs, expenses, and attorneys' fees will be borne by the party which incurred them

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Here's the legal document https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hIAGuxzEy3ZE4_mjyj-jiw4TMuwoIn3g/view?usp=sharing

Basically, the case is dropped, each party pays their own legal fees, and Catalyst Game Labs (In Media Res Productions) also get away with everything.

 

[Sinatar]

HOLY SHIT: Some *very* very very good news about the Harmony Gold case:



Here's the legal document https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hIAGuxzEy3ZE4_mjyj-jiw4TMuwoIn3g/view?usp=sharing

Basically, the case is dropped, each party pays their own legal fees, and Catalyst Game Labs (In Media Res Productions) also get away with everything.

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Nice. Fuck Harmony God.

 

[Vela]

PGI basically just made sure that the Marauder, Archer, Valkyrie, Wasp, Phoenix Hawk, and Warhammer will have a visual part of the universe. Regardless of your opinion on PGI and their efforts with MW:O, already they are part of the Battletech Hall of Honor thanks to this momentous event. This means that HG dropped their claims with prejudice. They can't sue them again over those mechs.

Now we just wait for some official announcement and hopefully HBS will implement the promised Warhammer and Marauder into this game, like they originally promised us during the Kickstarter.

 

[Deleted member 2507]

Wow, i remember all CGL said was that "their legal needs are being taken care of" when it became apparent they had defaulted, guess they got PGI to take care of things for them as well.

Maybe, just maybe things are really getting better for tabletop Battletech as well.

 

[Vela]

Wow, i remember all CGL said was that "their legal needs are being taken care of" when it became apparent they had defaulted, guess they got PGI to take care of things for them as well.

Maybe, just maybe things are really getting better for tabletop Battletech as well.

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It's been quite the rollercoaster the last year or so.

Speaking of the tabletop, you saw the reprint of the combat manual by the way?

 

[Deleted member 2507]

It's been quite the rollercoaster the last year or so.

Speaking of the tabletop, you saw the reprint of the combat manual by the way?

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I presume you mean the Total Warfare 5th printing with old-ass-Atlas on the cover. Combat Manuals were something else that got canned.

 

[Vela]

I presume you mean the Total Warfare 5th printing with old-ass-Atlas on the cover. Combat Manuals were something else that got canned.

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Sorry, yes, I was reading something about the Combat Manuals underperforming so that was in my head. I meant the Total Warfare.

 

[QFNS]

Great news on the Harmony Gold case getting dismissed! Fuck those patent trolls.

 

[Brashnir]

The changes are all good, just worry a little if they nerfed heat too much on some of those energy weapons. And really dont think the SRM's needed a nerf on their heat either. SRM boating is amazing already.



For the campaign as it is, of course. The game needed more varied objectives that needed speed and promoted movement. Also unlike the table top game, mobility in this game is not that restrictive. One of the biggest advantages lights are supposed to have is how much more maneuverable they are. The terrain rules in this video game are not strict enough, and the line of site rules also ignore so many important factors and magically shoot through so many objects. Lights are supposed to be terrain masters that get everywhere and constantly are popping in and out of cover, while heavy units slowly struggle. Terrain is not as effective in this game so lights lose much of their usefulness.

Click to shrink...

The real big difference is that the tabletop game uses tonnage limits. Having a hard limit of 4 mechs with no tonnage limit the way this game is would make lights useless in tabletop as well.

 

[Deleted member 2507]

The real big difference is that the tabletop game uses tonnage limits. Having a hard limit of 4 mechs with no tonnage limit the way this game is would make lights useless in tabletop as well.

Click to shrink...

It doesn't.
For introductory rule set, tonnage is a common way to balance but not the only one nor required. And it is only somewhat effective for introductory rules, anything else and Battle Value is likely used.

 

[PanzerKraken]

It doesn't.
For introductory rule set, tonnage is a common way to balance but not the only one nor required. And it is only somewhat effective for introductory rules, anything else and Battle Value is likely used.

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BV like Tonnage also promotes the use of lights..... typically as lance/star filler.

 

[Deleted member 29660]

Finally got around to playing after the patch and damn it runs so much better, no longer does the game take time enough for me to make a sandwich in the MechLab. I noticed new (for me anyways) pops up with having the ship updated and even began to see mechs I'd rarely see ie: Atlas and King Crabs. They are around more now.

 

[Annubis]

I need to spend some time and see what the new balance feels like.
I think there's still some modifications I'll want to mod but it should be much better than before.

 

[Ra]

My energy vomit Black Knights and Battlemasters feel disgusting (good) now. I was brute forcing Large Lasers at 30 heat, at 18 heat for 50 damage they are godlike.

 

[Klyka]

I had the authors of the RogueTech mod in my stream chat last night and got to talk a lot with them about the trials and tribulations of current modding and also their future plans. I am very very hyped to say the least and they seem like incredibly enthusiastic fans.
The mod itself is great and is basically what I wanted the game to be from the start.

 

[Vela]

I'll do a Roguetech run once the Warhammer and Marauder are released as free dlc

 

[Tebunker]

I had the authors of the RogueTech mod in my stream chat last night and got to talk a lot with them about the trials and tribulations of current modding and also their future plans. I am very very hyped to say the least and they seem like incredibly enthusiastic fans.
The mod itself is great and is basically what I wanted the game to be from the start.

Click to shrink...

The ideas behind it are great and as a separate mode it's smart. I still need to finish the campaign but I think I'd rather do the roguemod instead of playing skirmishes.

 

[Kaffeemann]

I had the authors of the RogueTech mod in my stream chat last night and got to talk a lot with them about the trials and tribulations of current modding and also their future plans. I am very very hyped to say the least and they seem like incredibly enthusiastic fans.
The mod itself is great and is basically what I wanted the game to be from the start.

Click to shrink...

What's your stream?

 

[Klyka]

What's your stream?

Click to shrink...

Not 100% sure if I am allowed to advertise, but it's twitch.tv/klyka

 

[Annubis]

Playing with the new patch, I find that there's little I need to change in my balance mod to account for it.
I can remove some of my changes since they did them (or very close).

The biggest difference is L laser where I buffed damage and they drastically reduced heat.
I'm OK with their way of balancing it. With my M laser nerf, L laser becomes the energy efficient choice at the cost of tonnage.

One thing I found while modding the weapon files is that there are at least 2 bugs that where introduced with the patch.
Weapon_SRM_SRM6_1-Holly.json
Weapon_SRM_SRM6_2-Holly.json

The first file has an incorrect accuracy of -1 (should be 0)
The second one has an incorrect accuracy of -5 !!! (should be 0)

You can manually fix them or just install my mod *wink wink* which fixes them.
https://www.nexusmods.com/battletech/mods/68

I haven't checked every weapon file though so I can't say if there would be other errors they introduced with the patch or not.
Anyone played with the files and spotted anything else weird?

 

[Kaffeemann]

Did anyone try the Better AI mod yet?
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ase-better-ai-tweaks-for-deadlier-ai.1075322/

 

[MonthOLDpickle]

So the patch is out right?

 

[PanzerKraken]

So the patch is out right?

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yep

 

[Tebunker]

So the patch is out right?

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Yeah its glorious and weird.

Took and Awesome I refitted with three L Laser +++ and 3 Med Laser +++ on a polar mission and I was just alpha striking every turn with minimal heat build. It was fun.

 

[Annubis]

Yeah its glorious and weird.

Took and Awesome I refitted with three L Laser +++ and 3 Med Laser +++ on a polar mission and I was just alpha striking every turn with minimal heat build. It was fun.

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Them lowering heat across the board seems to be for people to have more choices in arsenal... especially using heavier weapons.
I'm totally ok with that.

 

[MonthOLDpickle]

Okay finally playing this for the first time. Do they ever explain the UI? I am still in the tutorial thing I believe just found the ambushed guard post.

I am interested in tooltips on enemies and when attacking stuff.

 

[Double 0]

Got my first Assault Mech! Gave the Highlander to my Vanguard, mounted some lrms and a AC20++, and the results were glorious!

Love this game and I love the fact that the L Lasers are finally usable.

 

[Double 0]

Also, where is Roguetech available?

 

[Kaffeemann]

Okay finally playing this for the first time. Do they ever explain the UI? I am still in the tutorial thing I believe just found the ambushed guard post.

I am interested in tooltips on enemies and when attacking stuff.

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There's little explanation in game.
You can watch this if you want more information: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QckUSyYM2Fw

 

[MonthOLDpickle]

Thanks!

So finally out of the tutorial story enabling thing and I am at a complete loss what I need to do "base" wise.

Is there some kind of checklist for managing your money and stuff to do inbetween fights?

 

[QFNS]

Thanks!

So finally out of the tutorial story enabling thing and I am at a complete loss what I need to do "base" wise.

Is there some kind of checklist for managing your money and stuff to do inbetween fights?

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Not really, but honestly unless you are recklessly spending your money buying every weapon and mech part you see in the stores you shouldn't have too much trouble assuming you are taking care to minimize damage and repairs in mission.

As far as the normal loop in between missions: Check the store for fun new weapons with good + stats, equipment that you haven't seen before, repair any damage to your mechs, recruit some new pilots if you have some down with long injuries, start your next contract in system or travel to the next one, level up your pilots when you reach your destination (as you save money by keeping them lower level for longer). Start your next contract, etc.

I found the loop pretty easy to figure out without too much outside help. Just keep an eye on your expenditures and cash reserves when those monthly reports are due.

 

[Klyka]

Roguetech has been exceedingly fun for me and is constantly updated as well.
Basically what I wanted the game to be in the first place.

 

[Vela]

FYI, Catalyst Game Labs just posted an update on their part of the Harmony Gold lawsuit and despite the oblique legalese and NDA, they posted an image of the Marauder to basically hints that the outcome of this case was very favorable to them