[BBC] In China, Uighurs 'moved into factory forced labour' for foreign brands Apple, Google, Microsoft, Nintendo, Sony

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,175
I don't know how the discussion would have went. We never got to see!



I'm very passionate about human rights abuses and atrocities, hence wanting to discuss them - I quite disagree. But I understand wanting to create a safe space, particularly since this is a gaming and entertainment forum.



Agree 100%. It can feel hopeless, but let's do what we can.
We can discuss these things but that post was not an informative "this is how Chinese government's propaganda has made Chinese people think
about the subject" but a full-blown "you western haterzzzz just don't understand that we are doing good by them, FAKE NEWS!" propaganda piece spouting shit.
 

traveler

Member
Oct 26, 2017
199
Not that the derailing label is necessarily inaccurate, but 99.9% sure Oggmeiler's first reply was sarcasm given their posting history on this very topic/people leveling sinophobia criticisms at them on this forum before. Just fyi.
 

Pancracio17

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
7,662
I wonder if companies can even pull put of the deals they have with China. Im sure they probably wouldnt even if they knew this ((they know)yay capitalism), but even if they wanted to, i imagine there might be consequences for it. Nothing they cant handle with their billions of dollars but maybe theyll lose the slot to another company thats willing to actually por this "service".
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,175
I wonder if companies can even pull put of the deals they have with China. Im sure they probably wouldnt even if they knew this ((they know)yay capitalism), but even if they wanted to, i imagine there might be consequences for it. Nothing they cant handle with their billions of dollars but maybe theyll lose the slot to another company thats willing to actually por this "service".
It would probably have to be an all or nothing scenario. China would probably retaliate if companies started to move significant amount of production elsewhere but still tried to keep, like, 20% in China.
 

Bear Patrol

Member
Oct 27, 2017
315
Welp...the last console I bought new was my Switch back in 2017 and I regret that purchase now, after reading this’d

I was already buying all of my electronics outside of my phone and pc parts used/2nd hand so I guess I need to make sure almost everything is purchased in a way where the involved companies see no profit from me.

It’s disgusting that this is a thing but large multinationals are totally willing to use slave/forced labor like this so long as it doesn’t fuck with their bottoms line. What a fucking world.
 

P-Tux7

Member
Mar 11, 2019
760
Nintendo supports this? And gosh, it's already been almost 2 weeks and I haven't even heard of this.
 

Intoxicate

Member
Oct 30, 2018
715
This is horrible, fuck capitalism and fuck China
It’s not capitalism, it’s the fact that economic growth and profit are the sole targets, this only works on the back of others who loose.

And China is not inventing these practices. But they are applying them more efficient then ever seen in history, which is scary.

Take sustainability as the primary target instead of profit and the problem is solved. Neither democracy nor socialism is making a difference here. The problem is, the companies have outgrown countries, there is simply no instance who can regulate a giant like Google, Apple etc.

Everyone needs to understand that this will kill the planet and when everyone gets aware, people will change and with them companies as well. How long it will take? Maybe too long for us to save the planet.
 
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Swift_Gamer

Member
Dec 14, 2018
2,427
Rio de Janeiro
It’s not capitalism, it’s the fact that economic growth and profit are the sole targets, this only works on the back of others who loose.
Take sustainability as the primary target instead of profit and the problem is solved. Neither democracy nor socialism is making a difference here. The problem is, the companies have outgrown countries, there is simply no instance who can regulate a giant like Google, Apple etc.

Everyone needs to understand that this will kill the planet and when everyone gets aware, people will change and with them companies as well. How long it will take? Maybe too long for us to save the planet.
It's totally capitalism. C'mon, don't try to excuse the system. The logic of this system is to make money while spending the less possible and doing slave work is one of the means to do it.
And everything you stated in your reply is capitalism's fault.
 

Intoxicate

Member
Oct 30, 2018
715
It's totally capitalism. C'mon, don't try to excuse the system. The logic of this system is to make money while spending the less possible and doing slave work is one of the means to do it.
And everything you stated in your reply is capitalism's fault.
I didn’t want to offend you!
my point was, we shouldn’t blame capitalism and China when these mechanism are applied everywhere and even have been in countries that didn’t follow capitalism, dig deeper.
 

Nephilim

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,163
This world is just as it is, sadly. And imo it will never change, because the stronger one will always abuse the weaker one.
Ther is no empathy for each other.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,878
Yeah, stuff like slavery and debtor's prisons is basically the end result of any late stage capitalist society (the trickle up effect of money also ended mercantilism as well). What comes after, when the larger group gets angry that the smaller group has all the stuff, well... doesn't historically end well for the smaller group.

And hey, guess where we are!
 

sirap

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,517
South East Asia
From the article Jssom posted:

The Uyghurs sent to the factories across China are faced with similar environments to the internment camps where their every move is monitored, they’re required to attend after-work Mandarin classes, participate in “patriotic education”, and are prevented from practicing their religion.
The workers are housed in closed-off factories like the one pictured below, where they are allowed little or no movement, while being kept away from their families in Xinjiang.
Evidence also suggests that some of these factories pay the Uyghur workers below the minimum wage.
 

Intoxicate

Member
Oct 30, 2018
715
Still just saying fuck capitalism is not a solution. Not buying things helps if enough participate. Gouvernements needs to work together and not step out of achieved agreements (e.g. Kyoto/Paris protocols). It’s needed for both human rights and environment.
 

P-Tux7

Member
Mar 11, 2019
760
It's not that they support it, it's that they don't care and to not use it could dramatically raise their costs. So yeah.
I dunno, I'd call that very close to supporting it. Even if Nintendo had no idea, now they are obliged to stop. Before anyone asks why I am picking on this one company, it's because it's especially shocking givem their family-friendly image, so I guess that gices me higher expectations.
 

nib95

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
12,967
This is sickening. Realistically what can we all do about this? Are there any Twitter hash tags or organised social media movements against this?
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,296
I dont see a number of your typical pc parts manufacturers on the list. Amd/msi/gigabyte, etc. Are they there under umbrella companies?
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,878
Still just saying fuck capitalism is not a solution. Not buying things helps if enough participate. Gouvernements needs to work together and not step out of achieved agreements (e.g. Kyoto/Paris protocols). It’s needed for both human rights and environment.
I think fuck capitalism is a perfectly valid response, for however incomplete it may be. That said, people not buying things isn't going to affect China unless the purchases stop at massive scale (though in all likelihood this would tank the associated economies even more than at current). To the point, it would be more productive to contact local representatives or to make this a big enough deal that economic sanctions could be collectively imposed to stop the abuse. IF those soft power solutions don't work... well, there's hard power and that's about it.
 

Menx64

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,508
I did send an email to Management and corporate offices but I have yet to receive an answer. I guess the covit19 is thier one priority now, but I'll keep insisting.
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,175
I hope flexible enough to develop to embrace more targets then profit only. In my language capital even means more then money, like health and peace.
I mean, just because "capital" means more than just money, that doesn't mean that economic/political ideology called capitalism has much to do with much else but money, even if it has the word capital in it.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,792
UK
I didn’t want to offend you!
my point was, we shouldn’t blame capitalism and China when these mechanism are applied everywhere and even have been in countries that didn’t follow capitalism, dig deeper.
China follows capitalism completely as "state capitalism", even if it has the face of communism.

If you've got half an hour or more, see how what all you're describing IS capitalism, and how it personally hurts us. (Source: Thought Slime)
 

Intoxicate

Member
Oct 30, 2018
715
I don’t get why people try to explain the evil of capitalism. I didn’t say capitalism is good nor that it doesn’t kill the planet. The lack of a working alternative was my point, hence we need to change the paradigm instead of complaining.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,878
I don’t get why people try to explain the evil of capitalism. I didn’t say capitalism is good nor that it doesn’t kill the planet. The lack of a working alternative was my point, hence we need to change the paradigm instead of complaining.
There are plenty of nations that have successfully adopted multiple socialist economic policies into their systems and they're some of the most successful in the world. To say there's no other option is to simply be blind to solutions that already exist, and a lack of implementation simply displays a lack of political will to force politicians and businesses into a new paradigm.

I think socialism has lots of inherent problems, but it's far less abhorrent than the increasingly laissez faire capitalism of today. People allowing rich assholes to run the world needs to stop (and if you're ridiculously rich, given the track record of most, you're probably an asshole).
 

everyer

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,242
User Banned (Permanent): Dismissing and denying human rights abuses.
Gross. Not to my country or my government, but to you who post shits like these.

Our young generation are working in these companies without any differences, people from poor region to seek jobs throughout the country to change their lives.
I totally don’t understand your purpose on these shit posts.
I have seen enough racist posts against my country and my government in Era.

You just can’t believe we Chinese live a better life than you and you are afraid of us.
That’s fine.

I feel sorry for you.

In China we grow up with education that told us world people are our friends and we should unite to make the world better. And our country never been a country to rob resources from other countries . It’s in our vain that we work hard to get better life.

With so many negative posts these days.
I am more sure about it.
We have the best country in the world and best government in the world and we live the best life here. I stay with my country and I love it. I love it more than ever.


Oh and , take your 50 cents for making the posts. Another jokes for me to bring to our social community. Thx.
 

Giru017

Member
Oct 30, 2017
20
Malta
It's a complicated subject and the posts listing the "evils of capitalism" aren't exactly wrong here... But this is similar to the animal abuse topic of conversation.
I get that we want to end bad practices once and for all and that a lot of people feel very passionately about human rights abuses, animal abuse, etc (as one should, nothing wrong with that). The issue for me begins when we call out more than we should in order to create a shame-and-distancing blanket which can often make an issue seem to broad to actually have a solution to it.

For example, the list of companies OP posted rightfully says that it is those that "directly or indirectly benefiting from the use of Uyghur workers". And herein lies, to me, the issue. There are factories of all kinds: textile, electronics, etc and even within those, production, assembly, QA and more divisions. Finding which factories (owned by what company) actively force Falun Gong, Uyghur, children and other vulnerable population groups into labor is key and who is, ACTIVELY, employing those companies. Because by the current phrasing, if factory A has forced labor to produce (for example) 0.15mm U Point Screws and factory B, C, D and E all use 0.15mm U Point Screws to produce goods for international companies Z, Y, X and W, those companies would still be on the list for "indirectly benefiting". And surely, they buy those screws because factory B,C,D & E say that A sells them at the lowest cost even though they are of the same quality and that's the end of the analysis, if it even goes so far. Most likely factories B,C,D & E simply list price points per units and offer material cost levels of varying degrees of quality & availability.

These are horrible issues and surely the solution IS to shed light on it and for people to be more conscious on how and where their goods are coming from and how they're being made. But at the same time, I feel this creates a slippery slope where if everyone is the villain, it becomes harder and harder to identify who is actively choosing to procure goods and services from human suffering for profits and for whom it's an unintended side effect.
 

Asiel

Banned
Mar 8, 2020
13
I want to hunt these people down in a dangerous game.

I'm sick to my stomach.

I live in eastern china.
Most people around say this, and a few will not be affected.
please cant ban those who are also from China,it's wrong.

Or you have a hard time believing
What they say“Human rights violations”
Actually they are already enlightened

China's Internet Gap had 14years,Those who cannot communicate with you on this site,Their ideas are even more unacceptable.
 

Asiel

Banned
Mar 8, 2020
13
I live in eastern china.
Most people around say this, and a few will not be affected.
please cant ban those who are also from China,it's wrong.

Or you have a hard time believing
What they say“Human rights violations”
Actually they are already enlightened

China's Internet Gap had 14years,Those who cannot communicate with you on this site,Their ideas are even more unacceptable.

They don't think their speech is unreasonable(i think you can't understand),you ban them and Attacks on China.
That's why the following remarks
It ’s okay to criticize the government, but please do n’t bother the people there

China has a large number of state-owned enterprises,
Many people will be unemployed without entering them.
It is unrealistic for these people to blame the government.
 

Asiel

Banned
Mar 8, 2020
13
in china reddit(bai du tieba),
it's this.jpg source.

I post some parameters of xbox series x,
Will show that I have a lot of illegal words
I was even forced to delete the whole sentence
Because he doesn't tell me those are illegal

This site does not ban you from speaking
But most Chinese people have poor self-management skills

You do n’t use blacklists directly here.
Even whitelist
So they just said these things



Chinese webmasters are very inaction
Even encourage members to attack each other to Boost (baidutieba) Premium Member Sales.

We have great cultural differences
I don't want this to create a gap or conflict
 

Asiel

Banned
Mar 8, 2020
13
Just don't insult the leaders of the country


shanghai people verbally insult henan people
guangzhou people verbally insult hokong people
hubei people verbally insult jiangsu people
You will not be punished
(shanghai,hokong,A china Big city,hubei,henan,a State like California)
·······························
in united SA,you can attack Trump,America president
but cant Racial discrimination



We all discriminate against each other in our society
You because of what they say to banned,This is not reasonable

Unblock account
Give them a chance
Show them that racism is wrong


if them Speak again about Identity Slavery,banned
 
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Asiel

Banned
Mar 8, 2020
13
If i don't speak
Chinese on this site 90% will be banned
Knowing the law and breaking the law is bad
but’s not

Compared to someones think Xinjiang people are a disaster,They are willing to scold you
Already enlightened(in china)

Understand now??????????
 

Asiel

Banned
Mar 8, 2020
13
User Banned (permanent): Dismissing and justifying human rights violation across multiple posts, account in junior phase.
I just explain What do they think.
This is not my point, please don't misunderstand me


like this
【Finally, even if the Chinese government ’s approach is wrong
Do you have a better way?
They have attacked or even killed han Finally, even if the Chinese government ’s approach is wrong
Do you have a better way?

They have attacked or even kille han peopled(han is a Nation) before
What reason do you believe they won't attack again

(dont ban me)

This national leader is very paranoid,I can't use other adjectives
We had a minority education officer was Incited national hatred In the textbook,in china.
SO he think Uyghurs cannot communicate
In fact he is very friendly to minority,without xinjiangUyghurs.

Please don't take what other leaders have done to attack current leader
(If you have a Seriously different from me news please point out)】
 
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sirap

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,517
South East Asia
Finally, even if the Chinese government ’s approach is wrong
Do you have a better way?
They have attacked or even killed han Finally, even if the Chinese government ’s approach is wrong
Do you have a better way?

They have attacked or even kille han peopled(han is a Nation) before
What reason do you believe they won't attack again(dont ban me)


This national leader is very paranoid,I can't use other adjectives
We had a minority education officer was Incited national hatred In the textbook,in china.
SO he think Uyghurs cannot communicate
In fact he is very friendly to minority,without xinjiangUyghurs.

Please don't take what other leaders have done to attack current leader
(If you have a Seriously different from me news please point out)
Please stop.
 

kmfdmpig

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,222
It shouldn't be treated as an insult to China that the CCP does some terrible things.
America has done many awful things as well and most of us (on Era) are fairly open and honest about it. It's not the responsibility of the average Chinese citizen to take responsibility for the evils of the CCP but they also shouldn't be hand-waving away what the CCP is doing. The CCP has a very tight control on information. Why do you think that is?
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,792
UK
I live in eastern china.
Most people around say this, and a few will not be affected.
please cant ban those who are also from China,it's wrong.

Or you have a hard time believing
What they say“Human rights violations”
Actually they are already enlightened

China's Internet Gap had 14years,Those who cannot communicate with you on this site,Their ideas are even more unacceptable.
Ok I get the internet gap has reduced mainland Chinese from understanding a lot of the world and other people but the banned post from China was not even thinking the Uyghur people who are forced to work under bad conditions is a bad thing. As a Muslim, seeing others trying to justify what fellow Uyghur Muslims are going through as just education and jobs they're doing as career opportunities is not nice to see as it dismisses all the torture and imprisonment happening.