[BBC] In China, Uighurs 'moved into factory forced labour' for foreign brands Apple, Google, Microsoft, Nintendo, Sony

Got Danny

Member
Nov 8, 2017
558
You gotta have problems directly impacting people like game devs (read: white people) before anyone moves, man.
Hmmm, I think this is why the dev crunch outrage and Naughty Dog games strike bother me so much.
Atleast the developers get compensated relatively fairly for the extra hours they put in. and ultimately, they have a choice. No matter how scary the thought of unemployment is, they can CHOOSE to prioritze their health before the paycheck.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,877
God... it's like Black Mirror but so much worse. People buying into their dystopian, deeply racist, slave working future.


Franklin Roosevelt's words of November 4, 1938, are worth recalling: "I venture the challenging statement that if American democracy ceases to move forward as a living force, seeking day and night by peaceful means to better the lot of our citizens, fascism will grow in strength in our land."

 

Retroarnold

Member
Nov 5, 2017
3,230
So, serious thought. If Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, Google and Apple all have products made using forced labour, then how the hell can I, or any decent minded person, buy their products?

I'm being serious. If the next Xbox and PS are made using forced labour, I honestly don't think I'll be able to buy them.

Same goes for the next Pixel phone.

I'll have to seriously do me product research in the future.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,763
UK
So, serious thought. If Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, Google and Apple all have products made using forced labour, then how the hell can I, or any decent minded person, buy their products?

I'm being serious. If the next Xbox and PS are made using forced labour, I honestly don't think I'll be able to buy them.

Same goes for the next Pixel phone.

I'll have to seriously do me product research in the future.
Glad you have the moral fortitude to not want products made under such conditions. But because you publicly blurt out your personal decision, others will feel bad and will try to make you feel bad in return.
 

spman2099

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,476
So, serious thought. If Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, Google and Apple all have products made using forced labour, then how the hell can I, or any decent minded person, buy their products?

I'm being serious. If the next Xbox and PS are made using forced labour, I honestly don't think I'll be able to buy them.

Same goes for the next Pixel phone.

I'll have to seriously do me product research in the future.
From a personal, moral standpoint it is hard to argue with this line of reasoning. There are obviously a lot of people who are too entwined to completely disassociate themselves from all these companies. I also think there are a number of people who feel like the situation is utterly hopeless (and feel that not buying products from these companies is just a token gesture). However, I still think the most moral action is to, at the very least, do your best to limit the amount you purchase from the companies utilizing slave labor. It is very hard to not look like a total fucking hypocrite here. We all know what they say about ethical consumption in a capitalist society. However, we can at least do our best and try to minimize the amount we reward slavery.

It looks like this story has been completely buried, eh? Only a few game journalists wrote about it (shout-outs to the few who tried to hold the industry accountable for engaging in slave labor), and there haven't been any follow-up articles that I can find. None of the big names in game's journalism seemed to even bother with the story. None of the companies involved seemed to really feel any pressure here. Ultimately, Sony received tens of thousands of times the amount of criticism for some awkward wording in a press conference than they did for actively utilizing slave labor. Fucking hell...
 
Last edited:

siteseer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,324
ps4, pc
Living in China right now, a lot of things I read and see around me are no different from US or certain European countries, so I'm very irked when people insult the entire Chinese population or reduce their entire 1.300.000.000 people to one mentality.

A good analogy a friend of mine did the other day: China is just like USA, except the only party allowed is Republican and the only media is Fox News. But the population is no different, there's probably as many "left wing" thinkers in Shanghai as in New York but they are not allowed to talk about it. It's a bit like Singapore: it's very hard to gather momentum against the government here as everything gets better and better each year for the majority of the population. Why change anything when your family went from poor rice farmers to living in a mansion? Never mind the 1% getting fucked on the other side of the country, although anyway you would never really hear about it. So that's for the mentality.

There is a racist, extremist rise here, just like most countries nowadays. Concentration camps in China, refugees camps in Europe and American immigrants detention centers are the extreme manifestation of a rising right-wing mentality. I don't know what we could do to change that, it's very scary.
there are about 100 people in the ny prison system getting paid 16 cents an hour to produce 100 thousand gallons of hand sanitizer. but its not slave labor because we don't do that stuff here.
 

Dphex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,484
Cologne, Germany
It is quite startling how connected China is with their citizens, to the point where that same data is being used to help fight COVID-19.
the new health code app is made by alibaba and tencent


basically, Orwells 1984 is peanuts compared to this
 

Retroarnold

Member
Nov 5, 2017
3,230
From a personal, moral standpoint it is hard to argue with this line of reasoning. There are obviously a lot of people who are too entwined to completely disassociate themselves from all these companies. I also think there are a number of people who feel like the situation is utterly hopeless (and feel that not buying products from these companies is just a token gesture). However, I still think the most moral action is to, at the very least, do your best to limit the amount you purchase from the companies utilizing slave labor. It is very hard to not look like a total fucking hypocrite here. We all know what they say about ethical consumption in a capitalist society. However, we can at least do our best and try to minimize the amount we reward slavery.

It looks like this story has been completely buried, eh? Only a few game journalists wrote about it (shout-outs to the few who tried to hold the industry accountable for engaging in slave labor), and there haven't been any follow-up articles that I can find. None of the big names in game's journalism seemed to even bother with the story. None of the companies involved seemed to really feel any pressure here. Ultimately, Sony received tens of thousands of times the amount of criticism for some awkward wording in a press conference than they did for actively utilizing slave labor. Fucking hell...
Yep. Sony send a confusing message regarding backwards compatibility and people are up in arms.

PS5, XSX made with forced labour of an oppressed people? Everyone shrugs. Just pretend it's not happening so we can all not feel guilty buying our expensive video game consoles.

I'm going to be looking more into this story to see how deep it goes, but I'll say it now. I will no longer be buying any electronic device made with forced labour like this. One person isn't going to make a difference, but morally I just can't do it.
 

Eorl

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,422
Australia
the new health code app is made by alibaba and tencent


basically, Orwells 1984 is peanuts compared to this
It’s incredibly fascinating because of the current usage it has that’s actually saving people yet typically it’s seen as a draconian citizen spyware. Even to the point that other countries in this current moment are intrigued by how it’s helping with the virus.
 

spman2099

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,476
there are about 100 people in the ny prison system getting paid 16 cents an hour to produce 100 thousand gallons of hand sanitizer. but its not slave labor because we don't do that stuff here.
To be fair, a lot of people are very vocally opposed to the American penitentiary system. It is widely considered barbaric, racist, and incredibly poorly thought out (the idea of privatized federal prisons is so obviously a terrible one). As bad as America is when it comes to human rights violations (and it is plenty bad), they still aren't rounding up Muslims and forcing them into slavery.
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,982
there are about 100 people in the ny prison system getting paid 16 cents an hour to produce 100 thousand gallons of hand sanitizer. but its not slave labor because we don't do that stuff here.
Still not the same thing as reeducation, forced marriages, beatings, torture, being forced to take medication, electrocution, waterboarding, forced religious torture, sterilization, and more. The system in america is brutal, racist and awful, but it is absolutely disgusting to compare it to the literal concentration camps in China, and minimizes the ethnic cleansing and torture that goes on. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,877
The comparing atrocities discussion goes nowhere. There will always be problems worth fixing with criminal justice (as it is, and always has been, an inherently racist, sexist, and awful institution). That said, discussing the current slave labor is a different discussion and has merits on its own that need to be dealt with urgently. And here's the other thing - you can work to fix both. Consider working with or donating to the ACLU to help with the atrocious conditions in American prisons and beyond. Donate to Doctors Without Borders to get people the healthcare our shitty government won't give to us. Send messages to political representatives, to businesses about the situation of slave labor. Whenever these kinds of discussions get into these spiral of accusations, it always ends up punching down, rather than up. Let's be better than that.
 

Clay

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,348
I'm not knowledgable about this at all, but is building a gaming PC a more conscious choice if you want to avoid using products built with slave labor? It looks like some of the major PC brands like Intel, Corsair, the major graphics card manufacturers, etc aren't on the list of companies. I'm guessing there's a good chance their products are made by another corporation with a different name.

I'd been considering skipping the next gen of consoles in lieu of a PC anyway, that would definitely make it an easier decision.
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,982
I'm not knowledgable about this at all, but is building a gaming PC a more conscious choice if you want to avoid using products built with slave labor? It looks like some of the major PC brands like Intel, Corsair, the major graphics card manufacturers, etc aren't on the list of companies. I'm guessing there's a good chance their products are made by another corporation with a different name.

I'd been considering skipping the next gen of consoles in lieu of a PC anyway, that would definitely make it an easier decision.
While I can’t vouch for a particular brand/product, having more choices to pick from companies inherently makes it easier to avoid certain brands, so yes. With a PS4, you don’t get to choose where it’s made. With a PC, you can choose where your parts will be made, because you can buy from any company you want.
 

¡ B 0 0 P !

Member
Apr 4, 2019
2,149
Greater Toronto Area
So I guess no one is going to report on this in gaming media?
A large chunk of the gaming media and pundits/youtubers/streamers act as unpaid marketing people for video game companies. Or even worse: stans. Outside of say a few articles in Kotaku and Polygon, plus lefties like Jim Sterling it's a vast sea of hype people, console warring and gamer rage over things like censored anime boobies.

I mean could you imagine IGN doing an in-depth look at this story?