[BBC] In China, Uighurs 'moved into factory forced labour' for foreign brands Apple, Google, Microsoft, Nintendo, Sony

[Got Danny]

You gotta have problems directly impacting people like game devs (read: white people) before anyone moves, man.

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Hmmm, I think this is why the dev crunch outrage and Naughty Dog games strike bother me so much.
Atleast the developers get compensated relatively fairly for the extra hours they put in. and ultimately, they have a choice. No matter how scary the thought of unemployment is, they can CHOOSE to prioritze their health before the paycheck.

 

[Dphex]

documentary about chinas social credit system, there is also a part about the uyghurs in xinjiang

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Good video, ddphex

 

[Deleted member 27751]

documentary about chinas social credit system, there is also a part about the uyghurs in xinjiang

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It is quite startling how connected China is with their citizens, to the point where that same data is being used to help fight COVID-19.

 

[esserius]

God... it's like Black Mirror but so much worse. People buying into their dystopian, deeply racist, slave working future.

Fifteen Million Merits - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Franklin Roosevelt's words of November 4, 1938, are worth recalling: "I venture the challenging statement that if American democracy ceases to move forward as a living force, seeking day and night by peaceful means to better the lot of our citizens, fascism will grow in strength in our land."

https://www.pegc.us/archive/Articles/eco_ur-fascism.pdf

 

[Deleted member 31133]

So, serious thought. If Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, Google and Apple all have products made using forced labour, then how the hell can I, or any decent minded person, buy their products?

I'm being serious. If the next Xbox and PS are made using forced labour, I honestly don't think I'll be able to buy them.

Same goes for the next Pixel phone.

I'll have to seriously do me product research in the future.

 

[Messofanego]

So, serious thought. If Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, Google and Apple all have products made using forced labour, then how the hell can I, or any decent minded person, buy their products?

I'm being serious. If the next Xbox and PS are made using forced labour, I honestly don't think I'll be able to buy them.

Same goes for the next Pixel phone.

I'll have to seriously do me product research in the future.

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Glad you have the moral fortitude to not want products made under such conditions. But because you publicly blurt out your personal decision, others will feel bad and will try to make you feel bad in return.

 

[spman2099]

So, serious thought. If Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, Google and Apple all have products made using forced labour, then how the hell can I, or any decent minded person, buy their products?

I'm being serious. If the next Xbox and PS are made using forced labour, I honestly don't think I'll be able to buy them.

Same goes for the next Pixel phone.

I'll have to seriously do me product research in the future.

Click to shrink...

From a personal, moral standpoint it is hard to argue with this line of reasoning. There are obviously a lot of people who are too entwined to completely disassociate themselves from all these companies. I also think there are a number of people who feel like the situation is utterly hopeless (and feel that not buying products from these companies is just a token gesture). However, I still think the most moral action is to, at the very least, do your best to limit the amount you purchase from the companies utilizing slave labor. It is very hard to not look like a total fucking hypocrite here. We all know what they say about ethical consumption in a capitalist society. However, we can at least do our best and try to minimize the amount we reward slavery.

It looks like this story has been completely buried, eh? Only a few game journalists wrote about it (shout-outs to the few who tried to hold the industry accountable for engaging in slave labor), and there haven't been any follow-up articles that I can find. None of the big names in game's journalism seemed to even bother with the story. None of the companies involved seemed to really feel any pressure here. Ultimately, Sony received tens of thousands of times the amount of criticism for some awkward wording in a press conference than they did for actively utilizing slave labor. Fucking hell...

 

[siteseer]

Living in China right now, a lot of things I read and see around me are no different from US or certain European countries, so I'm very irked when people insult the entire Chinese population or reduce their entire 1.300.000.000 people to one mentality.

A good analogy a friend of mine did the other day: China is just like USA, except the only party allowed is Republican and the only media is Fox News. But the population is no different, there's probably as many "left wing" thinkers in Shanghai as in New York but they are not allowed to talk about it. It's a bit like Singapore: it's very hard to gather momentum against the government here as everything gets better and better each year for the majority of the population. Why change anything when your family went from poor rice farmers to living in a mansion? Never mind the 1% getting fucked on the other side of the country, although anyway you would never really hear about it. So that's for the mentality.

There is a racist, extremist rise here, just like most countries nowadays. Concentration camps in China, refugees camps in Europe and American immigrants detention centers are the extreme manifestation of a rising right-wing mentality. I don't know what we could do to change that, it's very scary.

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there are about 100 people in the ny prison system getting paid 16 cents an hour to produce 100 thousand gallons of hand sanitizer. but its not slave labor because we don't do that stuff here.

 

[Dphex]

It is quite startling how connected China is with their citizens, to the point where that same data is being used to help fight COVID-19.

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the new health code app is made by alibaba and tencent

The China way: Use of technology to combat Covid-19

By mustering resources at its disposal and deploying the latest technology, China has mitigated the effects of COVID-19 to a significant extent and profiled people at risk

www.geospatialworld.net

basically, Orwells 1984 is peanuts compared to this

 

[Deleted member 31133]

From a personal, moral standpoint it is hard to argue with this line of reasoning. There are obviously a lot of people who are too entwined to completely disassociate themselves from all these companies. I also think there are a number of people who feel like the situation is utterly hopeless (and feel that not buying products from these companies is just a token gesture). However, I still think the most moral action is to, at the very least, do your best to limit the amount you purchase from the companies utilizing slave labor. It is very hard to not look like a total fucking hypocrite here. We all know what they say about ethical consumption in a capitalist society. However, we can at least do our best and try to minimize the amount we reward slavery.

It looks like this story has been completely buried, eh? Only a few game journalists wrote about it (shout-outs to the few who tried to hold the industry accountable for engaging in slave labor), and there haven't been any follow-up articles that I can find. None of the big names in game's journalism seemed to even bother with the story. None of the companies involved seemed to really feel any pressure here. Ultimately, Sony received tens of thousands of times the amount of criticism for some awkward wording in a press conference than they did for actively utilizing slave labor. Fucking hell...

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Yep. Sony send a confusing message regarding backwards compatibility and people are up in arms.

PS5, XSX made with forced labour of an oppressed people? Everyone shrugs. Just pretend it's not happening so we can all not feel guilty buying our expensive video game consoles.

I'm going to be looking more into this story to see how deep it goes, but I'll say it now. I will no longer be buying any electronic device made with forced labour like this. One person isn't going to make a difference, but morally I just can't do it.

 

[Deleted member 27751]

the new health code app is made by alibaba and tencent

The China way: Use of technology to combat Covid-19

By mustering resources at its disposal and deploying the latest technology, China has mitigated the effects of COVID-19 to a significant extent and profiled people at risk

www.geospatialworld.net

basically, Orwells 1984 is peanuts compared to this

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It's incredibly fascinating because of the current usage it has that's actually saving people yet typically it's seen as a draconian citizen spyware. Even to the point that other countries in this current moment are intrigued by how it's helping with the virus.

 

[spman2099]

there are about 100 people in the ny prison system getting paid 16 cents an hour to produce 100 thousand gallons of hand sanitizer. but its not slave labor because we don't do that stuff here.

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To be fair, a lot of people are very vocally opposed to the American penitentiary system. It is widely considered barbaric, racist, and incredibly poorly thought out (the idea of privatized federal prisons is so obviously a terrible one). As bad as America is when it comes to human rights violations (and it is plenty bad), they still aren't rounding up Muslims and forcing them into slavery.

 

[spam musubi]

there are about 100 people in the ny prison system getting paid 16 cents an hour to produce 100 thousand gallons of hand sanitizer. but its not slave labor because we don't do that stuff here.

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Still not the same thing as reeducation, forced marriages, beatings, torture, being forced to take medication, electrocution, waterboarding, forced religious torture, sterilization, and more. The system in america is brutal, racist and awful, but it is absolutely disgusting to compare it to the literal concentration camps in China, and minimizes the ethnic cleansing and torture that goes on. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps

 

[esserius]

The comparing atrocities discussion goes nowhere. There will always be problems worth fixing with criminal justice (as it is, and always has been, an inherently racist, sexist, and awful institution). That said, discussing the current slave labor is a different discussion and has merits on its own that need to be dealt with urgently. And here's the other thing - you can work to fix both. Consider working with or donating to the ACLU to help with the atrocious conditions in American prisons and beyond. Donate to Doctors Without Borders to get people the healthcare our shitty government won't give to us. Send messages to political representatives, to businesses about the situation of slave labor. Whenever these kinds of discussions get into these spiral of accusations, it always ends up punching down, rather than up. Let's be better than that.

 

[Clay]

I'm not knowledgable about this at all, but is building a gaming PC a more conscious choice if you want to avoid using products built with slave labor? It looks like some of the major PC brands like Intel, Corsair, the major graphics card manufacturers, etc aren't on the list of companies. I'm guessing there's a good chance their products are made by another corporation with a different name.

I'd been considering skipping the next gen of consoles in lieu of a PC anyway, that would definitely make it an easier decision.

 

[spam musubi]

I'm not knowledgable about this at all, but is building a gaming PC a more conscious choice if you want to avoid using products built with slave labor? It looks like some of the major PC brands like Intel, Corsair, the major graphics card manufacturers, etc aren't on the list of companies. I'm guessing there's a good chance their products are made by another corporation with a different name.

I'd been considering skipping the next gen of consoles in lieu of a PC anyway, that would definitely make it an easier decision.

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While I can't vouch for a particular brand/product, having more choices to pick from companies inherently makes it easier to avoid certain brands, so yes. With a PS4, you don't get to choose where it's made. With a PC, you can choose where your parts will be made, because you can buy from any company you want.

 

[Richter1887]

So I guess no one is going to report on this in gaming media?

 

[MasterC12TF]

there are about 100 people in the ny prison system getting paid 16 cents an hour to produce 100 thousand gallons of hand sanitizer. but its not slave labor because we don't do that stuff here.

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Would it be better if they call it "murder labor"?

 

[¡ B 0 0 P !]

So I guess no one is going to report on this in gaming media?

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A large chunk of the gaming media and pundits/youtubers/streamers act as unpaid marketing people for video game companies. Or even worse: stans. Outside of say a few articles in Kotaku and Polygon, plus lefties like Jim Sterling it's a vast sea of hype people, console warring and gamer rage over things like censored anime boobies.

I mean could you imagine IGN doing an in-depth look at this story?

 

[esserius]

A large chunk of the gaming media and pundits/youtubers/streamers act as unpaid marketing people for video game companies. Or even worse: stans. Outside of say a few articles in Kotaku and Polygon, plus lefties like Jim Sterling it's a vast sea of hype people, console warring and gamer rage over things like censored anime boobies.

I mean could you imagine IGN doing an in-depth look at this story?

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Every year it feels ever more present that investigative journalism is dying out, regardless of whether it's in games or elsewhere. And doing it in China, especially now, is probably one of the most dangerous things you could do. I do think major outlets should definitely be covering it, but the capacity for an in-depth report right now is unlikely (even if it might be more important now than ever, as doubtless those slaves are receiving the worst of whatever else China is doing illegally).

 

[0VERBYTE]

So with no foreigners or foreign journalism in China right now because of the pandemic. Whats stopping the government from just wiping them out altogether? They can literally just do whatever they want to them without any oversight. I mean who's gonna save them if Xi just decides to end them?

 

[Richter1887]

A large chunk of the gaming media and pundits/youtubers/streamers act as unpaid marketing people for video game companies. Or even worse: stans. Outside of say a few articles in Kotaku and Polygon, plus lefties like Jim Sterling it's a vast sea of hype people, console warring and gamer rage over things like censored anime boobies.

I mean could you imagine IGN doing an in-depth look at this story?

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True, I can fully imagine how "gamers" react when it comes to empathy.


It is really depressing.

 

[kmfdmpig]

So with no foreigners or foreign journalism in China right now because of the pandemic. Whats stopping the government from just wiping them out altogether? They can literally just do whatever they want to them without any oversight. I mean who's gonna save them if Xi just decides to end them?

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They've also kicked out a lot of foreign journalists, particularly from the US, in recent months. The CCP's attempts to control the narrative have increased and very few people call them on it or speak up about it.

 

[0VERBYTE]

They've also kicked out a lot of foreign journalists, particularly from the US, in recent months. The CCP's attempts to control the narrative have increased and very few people call them on it or speak up about it.

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I had a nightmare scenario going on my mind about what kind of experimentation they are doing on those people.

Imagine the CCP testing the virus on them in their camps. A mass experiment of exposure because why not? Who will stop them. As a matter of fact who's to step them from experimenting get on their own internal foreign social communities?? This is highly alarming....

 

[spam musubi]

So with no foreigners or foreign journalism in China right now because of the pandemic. Whats stopping the government from just wiping them out altogether? They can literally just do whatever they want to them without any oversight. I mean who's gonna save them if Xi just decides to end them?

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I mean, even when journalists were there, no one would do anything if Xi just decides to wipe them out. Chinese media would deny it, China apologists would say its Taiwanese propaganda or something, and western governments would be too complacent to call it out because of their business relationship with China. I mean, several Muslim majority countries signed a UN document defending China on their ethnocide of muslim people. Nobody is going to side with these people.

 

[Sage Anahata]

Yep. Sony send a confusing message regarding backwards compatibility and people are up in arms.

PS5, XSX made with forced labour of an oppressed people? Everyone shrugs. Just pretend it's not happening so we can all not feel guilty buying our expensive video game consoles.

I'm going to be looking more into this story to see how deep it goes, but I'll say it now. I will no longer be buying any electronic device made with forced labour like this. One person isn't going to make a difference, but morally I just can't do it.

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You may not feel like it now, but one person makes all the difference in the world. We are connected in ways that go beyond fact, explanation, or imagination.

Stepping into this thread for the first time since eyeing it for weeks (basically avoiding/hiding from it), I'll be skipping them too, until changes happen.

 

[P-Tux7]

I know this is a bit of a charged question, so I want to make clear that this isn't an accusation unless people agree that I'm not overreacting.

Doesn't Tencent support Chinese governmental censorship and the Sociam Credit system? If so, shouldn't we condemn Nintendo for allying with them to release the Switch in China?

 

[Deleted member 13328]

This thread has made it simple for me, I won't be buying a PS5 and I'll try my hardest not to buy anything from companies that do shit like this.

 

[Ragnar]

So, serious thought. If Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, Google and Apple all have products made using forced labour, then how the hell can I, or any decent minded person, buy their products?

I'm being serious. If the next Xbox and PS are made using forced labour, I honestly don't think I'll be able to buy them.

Same goes for the next Pixel phone.

I'll have to seriously do me product research in the future.

Click to shrink...

I'm in the same boat, and will not be buying any of the new consoles.
I'll also do my best to avoid dealing with any of the 83 companies listed in the report.

 

[Deleted member 31133]

You may not feel like it now, but one person makes all the difference in the world. We are connected in ways that go beyond fact, explanation, or imagination.

Stepping into this thread for the first time since eyeing it for weeks (basically avoiding/hiding from it), I'll be skipping them too, until changes happen.

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I'm in the same boat, and will not be buying any of the new consoles.
I'll also do my best to avoid dealing with any of the 83 companies listed in the report.

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One person cannot make a difference, but if we all express our disgust and concern at these companies and refuse to buy products built with this vile, forced labour, then a difference can be made.

It'll be difficult as I love games. I love my Pixel phone. I love the iPad, but all of these things are materialistic items I don't need live my life.

What's more important to me is that the people making these items, or even components for these items are treated fairly, paid fairly and that their human rights are not being abused.

 

[sirap]

So I guess no one is going to report on this in gaming media?

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At this point I don't think we'll see anything from the gaming media. I've been consistently pushing this issue to them for weeks, either through twitter or email submissions. Beyond that, I don't know what else I can do to get their attention. I got banned for bringing up Jason's silence in another thread, so that's not longer an option.

I just don't understand why so many seem to want to sweep this under the rug, or are straight up ignoring it in the first place. Not even a simple retweet or mention from any of them, which is sad considering the lengths they go through to argue with trolls and console warriors. Is slavery not a serious issue, or do they not care because it's happening to Muslims?

It's a shame that this thread is no longer pinned. ERA was literally the only place where this got any semblance of attention, and now we'll see it quietly forgotten.

 

[Richter1887]

At this point I don't think we'll see anything from the gaming media. I've been consistently pushing this issue to them for weeks, either through twitter or email submissions. Beyond that, I don't know what else I can do to get their attention. I got banned for bringing up Jason's silence in another thread, so that's not longer an option.

I just don't understand why so many seem to want to sweep this under the rug, or are straight up ignoring it in the first place. Not even a simple retweet or mention from any of them, which is sad considering the lengths they go through to argue with trolls and console warriors. Is slavery not a serious issue, or do they not care because it's happening to Muslims?

It's a shame that this thread is no longer pinned. ERA was literally the only place where this got any semblance of attention, and now we'll see it quietly forgotten.

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Sadly it seems a lot of people do not want to see what sacrifices are made to create their toys.

A lot of people don't care about others ad long as they have it nice.

 

[Thronazuug]

At this point I don't think we'll see anything from the gaming media. I've been consistently pushing this issue to them for weeks, either through twitter or email submissions. Beyond that, I don't know what else I can do to get their attention. I got banned for bringing up Jason's silence in another thread, so that's not longer an option.

I just don't understand why so many seem to want to sweep this under the rug, or are straight up ignoring it in the first place. Not even a simple retweet or mention from any of them, which is sad considering the lengths they go through to argue with trolls and console warriors. Is slavery not a serious issue, or do they not care because it's happening to Muslims?

It's a shame that this thread is no longer pinned. ERA was literally the only place where this got any semblance of attention, and now we'll see it quietly forgotten.

Click to shrink...

Wait did you really get banned for that?

 

[P-Tux7]

It's a shame that this thread is no longer pinned. ERA was literally the only place where this got any semblance of attention, and now we'll see it quietly forgotten.

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Yeah, what's up with that?

 

[Genryu]

Yeah, what's up with that?

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It was un-pinned during maintenance.

 

[Toxi]

This thread really needs to be pinned again.

 

[Bear Patrol]

Yup, please pin this thread again.

Hearing about this issue definitely helped make changes to my spending habits that will last for a long, long time.

 

[GameBytes]

The Chinese Government has FOOLED you!

Are you convinced that China has this pandemic under control, are you looking to China for guidance when dealing with this pandemic? Let me help pull the woo...

youtu.be

China isn't going to see any of my money again after reading that and watching this video

 

[Deleted member 5028]

Muslims Held in China’s Detention Camps Speak Out | FRONTLINE

“If you exceeded two minutes in the toilet, they hit our heads with an electric prod,” a woman who was detained for 17 months tells FRONTLINE.

www.pbs.org

Not strictly related to the forced labour part but the imprisonment part and the treatment of these people

Rahima's nightmare began when she says Chinese officials learned that she had WhatsApp, a messaging service that's effectively banned in the country, on her phone.

Soon, the mother of four would become one of an estimated two million Muslims detained without trial by China's government over the past three years, in what has been described as the largest mass incarceration of an ethnic group since the Holocaust.

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Like Rahima, Gulzira is a Kazakh Muslim who was detained in China's Xinjiang region. Of life inside the camps, she remembers being surrounded by mesh and barbed wire,cameras everywhere, and brutal treatment.

Twice, she says, she was made to sit on a hard chair for 24 hours. She went to the bathroom where she sat.

And "if you exceeded two minutes in the toilet, they hit our heads with an electric prod," Gulzira tells FRONTLINE.

The two women's accounts offer a rare firsthand glimpse of life for Muslims caught in China's crackdown. The country's government has publicly portrayed the camps as "vocational education and training centers," but classified Chinese government documents obtained by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists depict them as involuntary indoctrination centers with high watchtowers, constant camera surveillance, harsh punishments and dedicated police bases to prevent escapes.

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For the full story, watch China Undercover, the film draws on undercover footage and firsthand accounts to offer an eye-opening look at what's been happening to Uyghur and other Muslims inside China's tightly-guarded Xinjiang region.

China Undercover premieres Tues., April 7. It will be available to watch in full, for free in the PBS Video App and at pbs.org/frontline starting at 7 p.m. E.D.T./6 p.m. C.D.T. It will premiere on PBS stations (check local listings) and on YouTube at 10 p.m. E.D.T./9 p.m. C.D.T

 

[Sumio Mondo]

Seems like the media are finally opening up about China's treatment of Muslims over there.

 

[Deleted member 5028]

Japan to support their companies with $2,2 Billion to move production away from China (are sony, nintendo etc doing this?)

I came across this article, and thought its interesting to share and discuss: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2020/04/09/japan-ditches-china-in-multi-billion-dollar-coronavirus-shakeout/ “Japan’s government would spend upwards of $2 billion helping its multinationals leave China.”...

www.resetera.com

I'd take an expensive console over slave labour

 

[Ushay]

This thread should seriously be pinned again, people need awareness on this issue.

 

[Techno]

This thread has made it simple for me, I won't be buying a PS5 and I'll try my hardest not to buy anything from companies that do shit like this.

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Same here.

 

[Thronazuug]

This thread should definitely, definitely needs to be pinned again. The journalist celebration i Kotaku threads shows that people forget about non-coverage fiasco by gaming outlets so soon. How do we encourage mods to pin this thread again?

PS. Good on Japan doing that move. I've been protesting Nintendo since they refused to give a press release about report and their future plans about not using slave labour.

 

[Deleted member 5028]

New news, fresh bump. From the Bolton on Trump thread:

• Trump supported China holding Uighur Muslims in concentration camps: "According to our interpreter, Trump said that Xi should go ahead with building the camps, which Trump thought was exactly the right thing to do," Bolton writes.

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Another example of a scumbag who supports the suppression and disappearance of a people.

Trump told China's president that building concentration camps for millions of Uighur Muslims was 'exactly the right thing to do,' former adviser says

In a private meeting, Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping were only accompanied by their interpreters.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[Richter1887]

This thread should seriously be pinned again, people need awareness on this issue.

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Agreed. Especially with Next Gen on the horizon.

 

[Lazlow]

We, the west, really need to have a long hard look at ourselves and our relationship with China but I doubt it will happen.

 

[Kolx]

Fuck Sony. Fuck Nintendo. And Fuck microsoft. Your empty gestures of supporting BLM and the LGBTQ community when you are ok with enslaving people like this is worthless.

 

[Deleted member 5028]

Fuck Sony. Fuck Nintendo. And Fuck microsoft. Your empty gestures of supporting BLM and the LGBTQ community when you are ok with enslaving people like this is worthless.

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Only profits matter and only ever will :-/